MysteryDomainAuction ... check this

[Earthian]

MysteryDomainAuction.com


I found this site through DNXpert.com which again I found some time ago through domaining.com


I think it a pretty smart idea that might earn the owner a nice sum








2 points though ...


1. I think he should lower the 2-week period that ends the auction to 1 week ... that way it will probably increase the amount of people that might expect to win the $10,000-domain/$10,000-cash "prematurely" and therefore probably increase the amount of early bids


2. I think he should consider some change in the bidding process because many people might try to bid in the last minutes in April and if the system needs to authorize a previous $0,01 increment before someone can bid for the next $0,01 increment it might create a bottleneck that might mess-up the end result

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[-REECE-]

Would be easy enough to copy if someone wanted to: http://www.swoopoclone.com/

I'm not jealous, I like the idea but don't agree with the way it's being promoted. People aren't going to pay $100+ for a link -- it's obviously gambling. I have no problem with that, just wish it was promoted for what it is, not pretending $1MM worth of bids are going to be placed for links.

I have read a couple blogs that seem to hate the idea.
personally I think there may be some jealousy going around.

I think its a great fun idea and maybe a way to get a few visitors to your site.

 

[deet]

it's all about link exposure.
your right buying a link for anything else would be a gamble.

pretty simple. if you don't wanna play then don't pay.

 

[Earthian]

I think it is mix of many things ...








an interesting development idea , possible traffic to links , possible $10,000 winnings for the winner , possible profits for the site owner , possible profits for affiliates , some interesting domainer links for visitors , etc








I think it does have a gambling element in it ... I would have enhanced the element by making the premature ending only 1 day long after the site got traction/many-visitors ... but in a chat-raffle/playing-cards-at-home kind of gamble and not something heavily-organized that should be governmentally moderated (especially since it is probably just an one-off event and not something that the site owner will repeat like lottery drawings)

supposing that the site owner does honour the domain prize and the $10,000 cash option I don't think it is a fraud , just a nice idea that might become profitable








ADDED: I read the terms a little more carefully and I think that the same-time-bids term should be changed (as well as the same-amount-ending-bid term)

the way it currently is , people pay money without having their links appear on the site (up until now I thought they were getting a refund if they placed a bid just after another same-amount-bid was placed) ... it appears from the accrued amount that not only they don't get a refund but the later-bid wins instead of the prior-bid (probably to accomodate for the same-amount-ending-bids) ... I don't think this is right ... also it is making the end result dependant on time-of-bid , instead of bid-amount (which could be achieved through end-time-extensions)

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[verbster]

At the very least, this adds variety to a sagging domaining industry. Anything new will get extreme reviews both for and against. But the old adage about any exposure is good exposure may be in play here: People who don't like the idea for whatever reason are still spending their time blogging and posting about it, which means more publicity.

Still, no matter how much someone dislikes the idea, it's bit much to second guess a person's reason for participating and call them stupid. That sort of blanket value judgement seems a little over the top.

As for the domain, I'm curious as to how the value was attached. I hope it's an LLL.com or something of time-proven value. Even so, many, if not most, will be after the cash (which brings up interesting cyberlaw implications).

If the earlier posts about the end of the auction are correct, and there's no minute or two extension for bids in the last minute or two, it seems a weird way to end it, as most bidders will try to snipe, and it will be a chaotic ending. Plus, the owner will give up the an opportunity to get a lot of bids at the end.

There is no way the bidding will ever end because of two weeks of no bids. Think about it.

 

[DotUSDomains]

I've had 2 enquires about some names i own (my link was to a portfolio page and 1buyer said he came from this site)

i had a xxxx offer straight on a 2 word .us name

for a $1.?? link it's not to bad

I think he'll find it hard to get link buyers at $20.00 + but that will give him almost $20,000

 

[Domainate.com]

I think its a shame comments like this are made.

Ok then, you tell me how this is different than a ponzi/pyramid scheme or at best a lottery (which some people like myself consider a "stupid tax") disguised as a domain auction? Tons of people will pay in money, only 1 will get anything of remote value, and at this point we're not even sure it really is of value (which again like I said in my post, it would do HIM a world of good to have said what the domain is at the very beginning). Only 1 person + affiliates will get money - again he would have been better served doing something like giving half or maybe more of the proceeds to charity just so it looks like he's doing anything other than something completely selfish and schemish.

A link back for bidding is nice and all but how much will the traffic from there really be worth given it's all about the domain auction? I wouldn't be going there to browse other people's sites and once there's hundreds or thousands of links there, how much of them will really benefit at all? The worst part about that is that the more people will be paying later on, the LESS their link will be worth because there will have been that many more links.

I'm not saying it's not an inventive idea, but I'm saying it's a scheme...not a business model, not providing anything of value to the community, essentially nothing but lining his/affiliates pockets. If that's how he prefers his reputation to be and how he wants to make his money, by all means it's his choice. None of us have to like it though or say "good for him" or say it's a benefit to the community.

I meant exactly what I said - I hope it ends up making less than $10,000 just so we can see if he'd put his money where his mouth is. It would probably be better for HIM if that was the case...because while people that have paid $1 or $2 thus far to get nothing but a worthless linkback amongst hundreds or thousands of other linkbacks might not be too upset, wait til it gets higher.

NY Times article on it may help you understand: http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/16/an-all-pay-auction/

 

[abcproductions]

bidding will stall to only a few bids per day in one week. it will get down to the last minute and anyone around the computer can take a shot at the prize for a good price.

i predict money will be lost on the auction itself.

 

[Earthian]

Steve - even though I think the site is a pretty good idea that needs some tuning (see same-time-bids in post #28) I don't think it can be called a ponzi scheme ... ponzi schemes "promise" to pay all paying members while they fail to do so after the "pyramid" collapses




this site only promises a link (there is the controversy with same-time-bids which needs to be cleared out imo) ... it promises some possible traffic/exposure ... and it promises a chance to win the domain in the auction (with a $10,000 cash option)




it has gambling elements but it is far from a lottery (especially if the same-amount-ending-bid term is updated) ... it is more like a competitive auction that might bring good profit to the auction winner , smaller profits to the rest of the bidders (links/traffic) , quite some profits to the site owner (who thought of the concept) and maybe some profits to affiliates




also a small question ... why do you consider lotteries a "stupid tax" ?

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[Linkin]

To my knowledge, KingOfTheBill.com was the real first version of this - but without a domain or a cash prize. It was a gimmick that showed how long the current bidder stayed on the top. Never bought a link, but it was fun to watch - until people stopped buying when the bids got a little over $100.00. After that, it died. This idea looks very similar.

 

[domainerx]

I see NamePros bidding at $1.84.

 

[verbster]

Ok then, you tell me how this is different than a ponzi/pyramid scheme or at best a lottery

This enterprise seems carefully laid out to avoid being designated a game of chance or skill...raffle, lottery, etc. In MysteryDomainAuction, it's right up front that (unless you are the last bidder,) you get a type of consideration for your bid/investment--a link for five years; in essence, your "bid" bought a link. (That in itself would make it not a game of chance.) The domain is almost like a bonus prize to the last person who buys a link.

Notice how cash is not offered as part of the event: it is not an "option" in lieu of the domain, but available as a private offer to purchase the domain after it's awarded. (Does that mean you may be double-taxed for the domain and the sale of it?)

The seller is profiting from this event, so how it is categorized (game of skill, game of chance, lottery, raffle, regular business, etc.) would be important.

 

[Domainate.com]

This enterprise seems carefully laid out to avoid being designated a game of chance or skill

Of course, because if it were it'd be illegal in most if not all states. Likewise I'm sure there are things CLOSE to ponzi schemes that would be carefully laid out to be legal but would in effect do the same thing. The question is whether to applaud such behavior or not.

Consider this: No one knows what the domain is, only that if they win they are promised to be paid $10,000 for it if they want to sell it. So - what makes this different than a gambling/lottery "game" laid out like an all-bid auction where the prize is $10,000? What chance is there really that the domain in question is actually worth more than $10,000? The links sugar-coat the issue.

The article I posted is about Swoopo, which believe it or not is not allowed in all US states (they don't operate in all US states and the only reason why not would be it being illegal in those states). I don't know the exact laws outlining the illegality of it, but this isn't that far from that. Giving people the hope of getting a name for far cheaper than its worth when in reality only 1 out of potentially 10,000+ will. That's not a lottery why? Oh right, because it's the 9,999+'s fault they didn't get the "last bid". Just like it's the bottom of the pyramid's fault for not getting enough people to buy into the pyramid...their fate is in their hands too!

To answer the lottery question: I'm not the only one that's ever referred to it as a stupid tax - you can search online and see the reasons people give. It probably IS a misnomer though because it more preys on people's hopefulness of winning vs. necessarily "stupidity". The sad thing is that most people that win the lottery don't exactly live a happy life afterwards, and yet that's the assumption that people make - winning the lottery would above all make them happy because life would be easier.

 

[Earthian]

Steve - I think you are being a little strict about it ... you have to cut some slack for innovation and fun ... in the same light that you described this site , the milliondollarhomepage is just a scam that sold $100 small 10X10 pixel spots (and many times way more expensive slightly larger blocks) in a sea of colours , images and links where the revenues from the traffic did not necessarily cover the expense for the links







I think that two of the most important aspects of the milliondollarhomepage was innovation and fun (together with good timing with the first eBay auction , during the Totally-Bizarre-Category era of eBay) ... and those were the aspects that made that site popular and profitable







I think mysterydomainauction must have some changes so as to have a chance to become profitable , but I don't think it is a scam

I am not necessarily endorsing the site (especially with the current same-amount-bids term) , I think each person should weight in the pluses and minuses for himself/business ... but I think it is quite innovative and it could end up being a pretty interesting project







regarding lotteries ... I think again the plan is clearly laid out ... you pay very little for a small chance to win very big ... gambling (if done in moderation) can be fun and in certain occasions quite profitable

when you pay for a lottery you don't pay only to win , you also pay for the fun of playing , to fund the profits of fellow human beings (lottery winners of all categories) , to fund charitable or other works of the organizing committee , etc

lastly , I did not say that money or the lottery can necessarily bring happiness ... but , on the other hand , lotteries globally have made thousands upon thousands of people financially independant or at least provided for a nice shopping spree lol , which can add to the happiness of a person

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[verbster]

To answer the lottery question: I'm not the only one that's ever referred to it as a stupid tax - you can search online and see the reasons people give. It probably IS a misnomer though because it more preys on people's hopefulness of winning vs. necessarily "stupidity". The sad thing is that most people that win the lottery don't exactly live a happy life afterwards, and yet that's the assumption that people make - winning the lottery would above all make them happy because life would be easier.

Irony makes life interesting. Today's news: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28485679/?GT1=43001

 

[-REECE-]

Being real here... If bids get to $147 (what John needs for his million), that'd mean 14700 bids have been placed. I think it's a bit of an exaggeration to suggest that people have any chance of winning. Lotteries are a stupid tax because only fools buy them actually thinking they're going to win.

As Steve said, it seems like it was modified just enough to maybe make it legal (depending on where you reside). If the domain wasn't involved, this would clearly be considered gambling in many places and would be illegal. As some of have mentioned, unless the domain is worth a whole lot more than $10,000 or is in a category such as LLL.com (eg. triple premium) where anyone can roughly approximate it's value, I have a very hard time believing everyone will consider the domain to be worth $10,000 -- hence why we have the cash element.

Million Dollar Homepage wasn't the same at all -- there was no prize for people buying pixels -- merely advertising. If you take out the contest here and just make it about purchasing links (something John is claiming is the reason people are buying links), then it's perfectly legal and does resemble Million Dollar Homepage... But it's not about selling links. It's about selling false hope.

I don't think anyone plays the lottery hoping notto win. If someone wanted to donate to charity, they'd donate it to a charity, not to some likely corrupt lottery organization.

 

[saucey]

ATTN: John

I agree with Reece. Remove the 1 million dollar statement.

Quote:Basically if bidding reaches $1,000,000, that means 99% of the money paid by bidders will be going NOT to the prize but rather to affiliates + John.

This statement (the fact that you hope to make a million dollars) will turn people off. Not because you are doing anything wrong, but because they will be jealous of the fact that you will be making big cash!!

It's much better to have them think they may own a $10 000 domain for $100 bucks, than have them think that you are going to make a million...

Simple psychology my friend... Never reveal your profits...and if you really want to.... Do it after you have made them!

Just my opinion!

Cheers!
P.S. I think it's an awsome idea!(just remove the 1 million thing, so people don't fret..)

 

[henrysim]

In this kind of auction, owner can always earn moneys if he wants, he can always shill bidding and make sure he is the last bidder which won the auction.

I'm not saying owner of the site will do this, but just stating the fact.

 

[Coopey]

Nobody's being forced to pay money. They are buying a link of a site that's getting talked about and decent traffic.
For anyone who's bidding, and rebidding, to win- it's like being 'pot committed' in poker. The 'dollar auction' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_auction) sprung to mind. Irrational escalation of commitment.

I won't be playing, but can't criticise John for his site- it is giving some people a link on a buzz-worthy site (that may help them increase their PR further down the road) and giving some idiots a place to throw away their dollars- I applaud the transparency displayed in saying "I am doing this for $1000000" (I respectfully disagree with Reece and Saucey about removing it) the only things I would personally change are (a) Advertising the domain from the beginning as Steve has already said, and (b) high-lighting the 'What is an All-Pay Auction' box a bit better- for the real idiots.

 

[James B]

Steve I was referring to this comment

"I hope simply for his sake of including this statement that the amount he'll accumulate through this will be less than $10,000, just to see him try and weasel out of it."

Because he has made a statement you don't like you hope that he fails. Amazing.

Ok then, you tell me how this is different than a ponzi/pyramid scheme or at best a lottery (which some people like myself consider a "stupid tax") disguised as a domain auction? Tons of people will pay in money, only 1 will get anything of remote value, and at this point we're not even sure it really is of value (which again like I said in my post, it would do HIM a world of good to have said what the domain is at the very beginning). Only 1 person + affiliates will get money - again he would have been better served doing something like giving half or maybe more of the proceeds to charity just so it looks like he's doing anything other than something completely selfish and schemish.

Not sure why you asking me to compare this to other money making ventures. This guys has come up with an idea. We don't have to like it but he is not harming anyone so to wish that he fails is in my view not a nice thing. That's all I was saying. I have not done much research on the models for the money making schemes you have mentioned so would only make myself look uneducated in commenting. You seem to know enough about them so I will take your word for them.

He has said he has put aside $10k of his own money in case it does not work, he has also said he has other business interests that would suffer should he not fulfil hi promise.

Best of luck.

James

 

[Earthian]

Reece - I think you are being too "cynical" about this (no offense meant)


I read a little of the background about this which I hadn't read beforehand (about domaining revolution , about his domaining manifesto project , etc) ... I do agree that this is no domaining revolution (that was mostly marketing) , but it is still a rather interesting project ... especially if it had-gotten/gets more popular/mainstream and if didn't receive tons of scrutiny/negativity


I still think it needs some changes to become profitable (and more legit ... eg. the same-time-bids that are prior to the last one do not appear on site and as it seems they don't get a refund either which I don't think is right ... it is not illegal since it is explained in ToS but still needs improvement imo ... if he issued refunds they would just probably rebid anyways)


but I think it should not be taken too seriously of a project (he kind of caused that to himself by naming it domaining revolution) and be more considered as a fun experiment and just watch how it might unfold










regarding lotteries ... I thing the term "stupid tax" is way too harsh ... [kidding] as I can understand you probably spend a fair sum in lotteries without much winnings and that's why you are pissed ... Steve too ... lol [/kidding] ... you are a realist and those tiny statistical chances probably don't sit well so as to "invest" money in it


but don't see it that way ... see it as a fun game (that miiight earn you money) ... spending $10 on a drawing here and there won't mess someone's budget and if he/she wins ... whoazaaa


you might not see it that way but all the $5 , $10 people spend on non-winning lottery tickets get accrued to create the large winnings of the top-prizes/jackpots ... it is like thousands of people put money in a pot and they pick a winner , next time another winner is picked , and the next another one ... you should not be unhappy for not winning you should be happy that you helped in someone becoming very happy


of course , I am not saying that it should become an addiction or overspend , it needs moderation


lastly , in my country (Grreece) , the organizing institution is monitored directly by the government and spends about 1/4 of the revenues to promote sports and sporting events ... about 60% goes to prizes and the rest to administration , future prize bonus infusions , etc

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[Brujah]

Reece is taking it a bit too far with some of his comments. It's not a raffle. It's not a lottery. It's not a stupid tax. It's not a ponzi scheme. Using extreme comments like this are in extremely poor taste and unprofessional.

It's not about selling false hope. Bidders this early are not expecting their bid to win the domain. Quit exaggerating it please.

 

[abcproductions]

the bidding is slowing down dramatically now as i predicted.
the high bid yesterday at 12:45PM (about 26 hours ago) was at $2.79. the current high bid is $3.08. that's 29 bids in 26 hours.
i say the final winning bid will be $6.77. any other guesses out there?

 

[Earthian]

Brujah - even though I do think Reece is a little strict on this , he did not mention a ponzi scheme (Steve/NameTrader did) ... also the "stupid tax" comment was mostly towards regular lotteries (though he may have meant it towards mysterydomainauction too)





abcproductions - I think it will slow down some too at higher prices (but OTOH it has been a Saturday) ... unless ... he changes the premature-ending to 1 day (instead of 2 weeks) , in which case many people will probably bid early on hoping to "snipe" the domain/$10,000 prematurely while others are "sleeping" ... it is very risky though , especially for the possibly "low-activity" weekends

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[verbster]

i say the final winning bid will be $6.77. any other guesses out there?

MysteryDomainAuction should cover all the bases and include your idea as a $1 per guess pool...lol. Might as well throw in a pool for the date/time the bidding stops, too, in the unlikely event it doesn't reach 100 days. (Yeah, it's illegal but would be funny.)

 

[abcproductions]

i predicted this thing would fall apart in a post that was deleted. the person running this auction consulted with lawyers (and others) and knew the risks prior to launching it. now it has been cancelled because it was going to be a huge failure. i would not be surprised if several lawsuits arise out of the cancellation.