discuss My take on brandable marketplaces and why it spells ”Au revoir”

[trelgor]

Hey!

I’m a brandable domainer. I have been at it for years and I have amassed a sizeable portfolio. I am successful. I also love what I do. ”Brandable domainer” to me means that I value names based on their gravitas as a prospective brand. The quality of the name is not derived from past or current usage or readily quantifiable stats, but from a human evaluation of it’s overall applicabilities in form and function.

The question that has been silently fraying my sanity is to what extent this success is derived from my work and to what extent it is related to the connection to buyer crowds that frequent the brandable marketplaces I use. It is a question I have seen posed many times in different forms. The brandable marketplaces themselves mostly dodge it.

I am sure that the boutique modus gets frequent buyers that are captivated by their descriptions and logos. The creative representation of a brand prospect creates a boost of appeal that could mean the difference between sale or not. So the occasional sale is most likely secured on those merits. Browsing or searching the well known site and finding a match that conceptually connects to the venture...

But it is not the occasional sale that suffers the 30%+ commission structure. It is all of them.

Afternic for example charges 20% flat. That is also a lot, but they do offer a connection to an amazing buyer pool through their network. They also do not demand exclusivity. With say Afternic, Sedo, etcetera, You can still have a sweet and individualized lander with a more forgiving commission somewhere else, if you want a logo and a description it might cost you $10 per name. This time as a clean investment that is 100% towards your own success.

Here are the bulletpoints for my decision.

• Name selection. You are not subject to a review process other than your own. For good or for bad.
• Pricing. You don’t need to consider ”accepting” a price that feels wrong.
• Information. You are investing in knowledge about your buyers considerations and in their future business needs.
• Exclusivity. You are free to work with a plethora of sales services.
• Ease of management. You are in charge. You are less likely to not respond in time or to ignore - yourself.
• Learning. You can use the information you harvest to evolve.
• Commissions. Even though you may miss out on the occasional brandable marketplace sale, your commission percentages will be lower.
• Marketing. You would not be setting a marketing budget aside when you pay 30% commissions. You would actually expect that percentage to pay for serious marketing.

My opinion about the brandable marketplaces is that they increasingly find themselves in a downward spiral. They inherently cater first to more or less lottery tickets that get a minor boost by a professional presentation. It is a setup where the house almost always wins, but where the workload from submissions makes those wins increasingly hard earned for the marketplaces.

I think a strategy to tackle this has been to actively recruit more premium names from older portfolios. But the holders of those are not even remotely as ”loyal” as the non-premium type variety, as they are not invested in the marketplace. Sometimes noob loyalty is even promoted by 1% outlaw biker vernacular!

I think that the inability to cater to the portfolio holders that have passed the initial stage of actually selling a couple of names and are in a steady growth mode is something to consider. That is where focus should be. It is regretfully not.

I hope for a fruitful discussion that could fast-track an evolution that builds on two very underestimated facts. The important end user buyers of aftermarket domains are businesses. Businesses want business names. Those two facts in turn pose two critical questions. What is a business name? (I’m definitely not talking about ”JohnsAutoRepairLouisiana”), and how should marketplaces connect fledgling businesses with these names?

It is safe to say that this process today is undeveloped, fragmented, convoluted and inefficient on both buyer and seller end. You can simplify transactions all day long, but if you don’t simplify the process of finding a prospect domain in the first place, you will not have a bigger pie.

A bigger pie should be a priority for any industry.

I invite all leading brandable marketplaces (and every domain sales platform worth the name) to comment on these sentiments. I will interpret no input as a bit offensive as your partnership with me has been lucrative. I would also interpret it as the unability to grab a marketing opportunity. (Abide by NP:s rules though).

2020!

@DAN.COM @Joe Styler @margotb @Jowita Emberton @GrantP @Rob Monster @DomainAgents @Uniregistry

(To the inevitable questions about my sales numbers I will only say that I have made hundreds of end user type sales and that yearly sales are in the 6 digits and growing. My portfolio size is 5k. I currently do not actively list new acquisitions with brandable marketplaces.)

 

[BrandPlease]

My question back is do you think Google would help control domain buying decisions if they had control beyond most advertising $, search results, really the ability to have a viable business - if G doesn't like you you are done. Are you going to be able to rely on their competing brands ? Bing? DuckDuck?

 

[trelgor]

My question back is do you think Google would help control domain buying decisions if they had control beyond most advertising $, search results, really the ability to have a viable business - if G doesn't like you you are done. Are you going to be able to rely on their competing brands ? Bing? DuckDuck?

I didn’t mean that G would literally sweep domain search clean, even though they certainly would be well positioned.

I’m talking about the general direction things are headed.

if you are asking if a technology monopoly would be monetized to the maximum, I think you know the answer.

I still use Google.

 

[BrandPlease]

HA HA rereading your post, I think I am agreeing with your point - when I thought I was disagreeing! My bad.

Get your point, but somehow doesn't control the end product (univerally, right now) - I was envisioning the chome shopping tab with millions of domains.... that's what I though you getting towards. haha, maybe I'm just getting tired!

 

[Recons.Com]

My own experience says all three top brandable marketplaces are trending downwards.

In 2018 I had around 300 combined between BP, BR, BB and had made around 14 sales combined from those. In 2019 I had over 550 and sold only around 7 with those plus SH. And there are almost no gibberish names in those portfolios, mostly word+word, word+suffix, 4L etc.

It is quite telling when you have zero sales from 60 listings on SH, but have 4 sales out of 40 approved at SH but not listed there yet. Sales happened via Afternic or direct. This got me thinking if the listing might even be hurting my chances of sale.

Statistically, that is big enough sample size to demonstrate that there is a very high probability that it is not statistical anomaly. Furthermore, from private discussion with many other sellers they have experienced similar declines.

Compare it to my Afternic listings, where my average portfolio size for the year was under 2000 and I sold 22.

In 2018, those marketplaces could boast average of 3x+ of sell through of AN, in 2019 the sell through was virtually the same.

On top of that, AN had added advantage of a) almost half of the commission of the others; b) no selection process; c) you set your own prices. As a result, my per name income from AN was considerably higher than that from the other marketplaces.

So, no wonder that for last 6 months or so I haven't added ANY new names to ANY of those marketplaces and focused on a) listing all names on Afternic right away; b) increasing my portfolio size with no regard to the consideration if they'd be accepted at BP/BB/SH; c) launching my own marketplace.

 

[DomainBanana]

From private discussion with many other sellers they have experienced similar declines.

This could mean the brandable market space is becoming more saturated. Individual STRs could be declining while overall sales for the marketplaces could be increasing.

 

[Recons.Com]

This could mean the brandable market space is becoming more saturated. Individual STRs could be declining while overall sales for the marketplaces could be increasing.

Sure. But what is of concern to most of us is STR, and not just total of the marketplace, but for an average non-insider, not-firstcomer seller.

For example, I estimate that BB might still have 1.5-2% STR, which is way down from what they had in the beginning with 4%+, but because their search algorithm and listings favor insiders heavily, for any non-insider the STR is in 1% to 1.5% range. And with that range most are better off doing Afternic + landers at lower commission places (their own, uni, dan, efty etc.). They can still achieve 0.8% to 1.5%, while averaging around 12%-15% in commissions instead of 35%.

For BB's bottomline, of course they make more profit from 90K names at 1.5%-2% STR than they were making from 20K names with 4%+ STR. It is the sellers that are losing here.

 

[.X.]

I never bought into the brander market places, for one, I am not ever going to pay to have a name listed, although I am not thrilled with paying a 20% commission, I like the 9% commission much better, i like the amount of listings I get with 20% commission taker.

 

[DomainBanana]

For example, I estimate that BB might still have 1.5-2% STR, which is way down from what they had in the beginning with 4%+, but because their search algorithm and listings favor insiders heavily, for any non-insider the STR is in 1% to 1.5% range. And with that range most are better off doing Afternic + landers at lower commission places (their own, uni, dan, efty etc.). They can still achieve 0.8% to 1.5%, while averaging around 12%-15% in commissions instead of 35%.

According to these estimates, you lose by listing independently. With 500 names and an average sale price of $2,495:

1.5% STR, 30% commission: $13,098.75
.8% STR, 15% commission: $8,483
​

STR is much more significant than commission as volume increases.

 

[Recons.Com]

According to these estimates, you lose by listing independently. With 500 names and an average sale price of $2,495:

1.5% STR, 30% commission: $13,098.75
.8% STR, 15% commission: $8,483
​

STR is much more significant than commission as volume increases.

And why exactly are you comparing the bottom of one range with the top of the other? For me personally, they both showed around 1.2% and that is AN only, without the landers.

Now, do the calculation there with a) higher sell price (average of $2.8k vs average of $2.3k); b) lower commission (20% vs 35% if you factor in logo fee) c) no upfront listing fee (can add up to $5K upfront investment to list 500 names)

 

[DomainBanana]

And why exactly are you comparing the bottom of one range with the top of the other? For me personally, they both showed around 1.2% and that is AN only, without the landers.

Now, do the calculation there with a) higher sell price (average of $2.8k vs average of $2.3k); b) lower commission (20% vs 35% if you factor in logo fee) c) no upfront listing fee (can add up to $5K upfront investment to list 500 names)

We all have different names, different experiences. Maybe your names don't need the "discoverability" advantage that a brandable marketplace brings as much as others do.

Maybe mine don't, either. Maybe we should all do a little more experimentation and see what works best for the names we sell. Maybe certain names (inventeds) work better on these marketplaces while others (word+, keyword) could do just as well or better elsewhere.

But again, experimentation takes time, money, effort. Some prefer brandable marketplaces because most of them minimize these costs and allow for passive selling.

There's no absolute answer. It comes down to resources and preferences.

 

[Recons.Com]

We all have different names, different experiences. Maybe your names don't need the "discoverability" advantage that a brandable marketplace brings as much as others do.

Maybe mine don't, either. Maybe we should all do a little more experimentation and see what works best for the names we sell. Maybe certain names (inventeds) work better on these marketplaces while others could do just as well or better elsewhere.

But again, experimentation takes time, money, effort. Some prefer brandable marketplaces because most of them minimize these costs and allow for passive selling. There's no absolute answer. It comes down to resources and preferences.

Maybe, maybe, maybe...

Look, I am trying to contribute with my own data so that people can benchmark with theirs. You are trying to replace all that with "maybe-s" that don't add any data, info etc.

If you have different info/data, please do share. Other than that you hypothesizing about my portfolio being somehow different and all my data being specific just to me doesn't help. If you need to see my listings on AN, you can check out here

 

[Doron Vermaat]

”Brandable domainer” to me means that I value names based on their gravitas as a prospective brand. The quality of the name is not derived from past or current usage or readily quantifiable stats, but from a human evaluation of it’s overall applicabilities in form and function.

I love this quote. Very well described.

The question that has been silently fraying my sanity is to what extent this success is derived from my work and to what extent it is related to the connection to buyer crowds that frequent the brandable marketplaces I use. It is a question I have seen posed many times in different forms. The brandable marketplaces themselves mostly dodge it.

Of course, the brandable marketplaces dodge this question. Good domains sell wherever you point them at so you really are robbing yourself of a proportional percentage by listing them on any (high) commission marketplace. Even Uniregistry's Frank Schilling has said openly that the best marketing tool for a domain name is the domain itself and the landing page it uses (can't recall his exact quote but can look it up).

I've sold many domains on brandable marketplaces during my first years in the industry. To be precise, I sold for:

$44,642 worth of domains at BrandBucket
$14,928 worth of domains at BrandRoot
$7,196 worth of domains at BrandPa

You can do the math on the $ amount of commissions paid over the years. Although the high-commission bothered me the most, some other reasons I decided to remove the majority of my domains from these sites over the years is that you:

- Do not have access to your inquiries/offers or any buyer intel. Getting offers, even lowball offers, are the best indication your domain name is in demand. Being left in the dark about the demand for your domains is not good.
- The exclusivity of these marketplaces prevents you from listing on GoDaddy's Afternic (and others), a marketplace that moves a lot of domains (more than any other marketplace) for you at BIN prices, even without using their landing pages.

Today, I have less than 10% of my inventory listed in a brandable marketplace (BrandBucket link for transparency). These, however, are all names that I acquired for reg-fee or under $100 or so and I don't mind too much if they sell for ~$2500 and I need to pay 30% commission on them. I honestly think brandable marketplaces are great for these types of names as they have the "magic sauce" to package a domain name as a "brand in a box" and sell a hand-reg type of name for a very nice amount.

As for the results, I did just fine. In fact, 2019 was my best year ever with almost double the revenue and a lot less commission paid.

Use commission-free or low-commission For-Sale landing pages and make sure you list on Afternic. And of course, make sure you own domains that sell

 

[DomainBanana]

Maybe, maybe, maybe...

Look, I am trying to contribute with my own data so that people can benchmark with theirs. You are trying to replace all that with "maybe-s" that don't add any data, info etc.

If you have different info/data, please do share. Other than that you hypothesizing about my portfolio being somehow different and all my data being specific just to me doesn't help. If you need to see my listings on AN, you can check out here

I'm using "maybe" to show some humility and to recognize that these are complex questions with no single answer.

What works for some doesn't work for others. What works can change over time.

This is why I encourage regular experimentation.

 

[Recons.Com]

I'm using "maybe" to show some humility and to recognize that these are complex questions with no single answer.

What works for some doesn't work for others. What works can change over time.

This is why I encourage regular experimentation.

I have done experimentation with big enough portfolio for long enough period and am sharing the results.

I'd appreciate if you could do the same and then we can all draw our own conclusions.

I see from your portfolio website that all your domains are the ones listed with BB. Perhaps, too heavily vested with them? Remember that age old adage about the eggs and the basket?

 

[DomainBanana]

I have done experimentation with big enough portfolio for long enough period and am sharing the results.

I'd appreciate if you could do the same and then we can all draw our own conclusions.

I see from your portfolio website that all your domains are the ones listed with BB. Perhaps, too heavily vested with them? Remember that age old adage about the eggs and the basket?

I have brandables on BB, BP, SH, and personal landers (Afternic, DAN, Epik). I'm also developing an independent marketplace. My portfolio isn't limited to brandables.

BB has been my preferred marketplace for brandables (hence the featured placement on my site) but that may change.

Like I said, there are many variables and what works for one person isn't necessarily the answer for another.

I'm glad you've found a method that works for you.

 

[DomainBanana]

I agree that discovery is crucial. I also agree that the potential for sales would be staggering if demand could meet supply in a more sophisticated way. I don’t agree that the solution is a couple of marketplaces that preselect their inventory.

The solution would be technology that let’s businesses find targeted options on the market anywhere in the blink of an eye.

That would be the holy grail, and I think also, inevitable.

A "meta-marketplace" would be a great solution for end-users. An obstacle would be getting buy-in from the major marketplaces but maybe this could be circumvented by operating as a simple naming agency.

Can you elaborate on your vision for this, @trelgor?

@BrandChimp might be working on something similar...

 

[Recons.Com]

BB literally just sold a domain for me. First sale of 2020. I rechecked the stats/balance etc. and after very quite first 9 months for 2019, BB has sold 4 domains in just 100 days for me. If that trend were to continue, my STR would be over 3% with them, which I'd be happy with. So, maybe they have been improving lately?

Will wait through 2020 before any further conclusions.

 

[frank-germany]

Thanks for tagging me @trelgor. You raise some interesting points. I will try to address this post from SH perspective.

In our experience, most businesses are looking for a great brand name first (they don't typically start with a domain name). We speak to thousands of customers as part of our branding consultations and most of them tell us that they want to build a great, memorable brand first. Of course, a matching domain name (ideally in .com) is a preference - but that is typically a secondary requirement.

It is a subtle distinction (brand name vs domain name), but it has some direct implications for domainers. Instead of selling domain names, it is important to think about how to package your domain as a brand.

We also find that many customers seek a modern, unique name that helps them stand out from the competitors. This has some implications as well. This typically means that the brand doesn't necessary need to include keywords related to the industry (in fact, to the contrary). Great brand names can be metaphors, or may evoke an emotion or feeling that resonates with the brand's promise.

This leads to the most important challenge in selling brandables - Discovery. Unless your domain name is a keyword rich domain, it becomes harder for end users to discover. This can especially be an issue when the domain is listed for sale in an uncurated marketplace with millions of other options. The customers must know precisely what to look for while searching for the domain name. Often times, this makes it harder to discover great brand names that do not include the keywords the customers may be searching for.

A benefit of curated marketplaces (it applies to all brandable marketplaces, not just SH) is that there is a pre-selection and curation to allow better discovery and buyer fatigue. If a buyer has to scroll through thousands of uncurated options, it is more likely they will get overwhelmed and miss out on the gems that are hidden in that sea of options.

However does the effort involved in curation and designing a logo alone justify the 30-35% commission? Absolutely not. We believe, it comes down to the level of investment being made in bringing potential end users. It is surprising to find that a large number of end users do not even know that after-market domain marketplaces even exist. Many of them start their search in Google, looking for a great brand name for their industry.

When it comes to Marketing investment, we believe there are four levels of investments that can be made by a marketplace:

1. Organic SEO (requires ongoing investment but can deliver long term results)
2. Retargeting (Requires low-moderate investment but can bring back the buyers who have already expressed interest in the brand)
3. Google Paid Search (Requires significantly higher investment, depending upon how many keywords are being targeted for paid ads)
4. Display Marketing (Highest level of investment because you are typically reaching prospective end users who haven't yet show an intent to buy a name)

Different Marketplaces make investments in some or all of the above categories. Some only rely on type in Traffic (no marketing investment). Others may have a decent SEO presence but very limited paid marketing.

At SH, we have built a set of highly extensive marketing campaigns that target thousands of keywords in Google and reaches entrepreneurs and brand managers via channels like Facebook, Twitter and google display. In addition, our organic SEO covers almost all industries that you can think of. For example, if you search for keywords like "clothing brand names" or "marketing brand name ideas", you will find SH in the top 3 organic search results in most industries. This is the reason, we are now getting over one million visitors per month.

However ultimately none of this matters if you are not able to sell more domain names than other alternatives. If you are able to achieve similar or better sell through rate on your domains via other alternatives, then it is prudent to list your domains at that platform which offers the lowest commission. Infact, even at SH, our basic listing commissions are only 7.5% - so if the domain is strong and keyword rich that it can attract type in traffic on it's own, one strategy could be to list it as a Basic listing. Of course you can also use your own lander or consider other alternatives.

Yes, there are certainly some restrictions when it comes to exclusivity and pricing flexibility. We do believe sellers should have more flexibility on pricing, which is why we recently announced that sellers can increase their selling price for upto 2X of originally approved price without needing any approval.

Regarding exclusivity, we are working on some syndication options that we will announce in the near future.

On the Discovery front, we have been making significant investment in combining the power of AI with the crowdsourced contest submissions. We have seen some very promising results from our AI based visual domain name search that allows buyers to discover great brand names after telling us their brand preferences. We plan to make further platform updates in this area in the near future.

The good news is that in 2020, there are lot more options and platforms for domainers than ever before. There will always be a Trade-off between sell through rate and commission % - and there is no single answer that can work for all domainers. Ultimately, we believe you should pick a platform (or a combination of platforms) that allow you to maximize your net returns (in aggregate, after accounting for all commissions).

thank you Grant for taking the time to inform us domainers in such detail
I 'll definitely give Squadhelp a try

 

[frank-germany]

Very thoughtful commentary here @trelgor -- well done!

When it comes to selling brandables, it is more art than science and more heart than mind. To carry the art analogy further, we have masterpieces being sold alongside cheap reproductions.

When it comes to brands, they are essentially a promise embodied in a physical form. The brand eventually develops personality based on the public's relationship with that brand.

A uniquely ownable brand identity that is wrapped in a narrative is an enormous strategic asset. That is why we paid more for Toki.com than we budgeted. The goal is to build something worthy there.

As for selling brandables, I see this market evolving in 2 directions:

1. Stand-alone landing pages will feature just one brand. Domain owners avoid commoditization when they monetize their own inquiries. That is the essence of what the "Shoot the moon" strategy is about:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/yall-wanna-shoot-the-moon.1162085/

2. Digital marketplaces will combine many elements of a Digital brand including domain name, social handles, trademarks, logo and even a functional site. That is what this search is about:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/he...he-ultimate-digital-brand-marketplace.1167901

That said, there is no sign of a peak yet for these main brandable marketplaces:

Squadhelp

Show attachment 140466


BrandBucket

Show attachment 140467


BrandPa

Show attachment 140468

That said, I think they will all peak in 2020 for reasons mentioned above plus the economic model and lack of transparency on the brand selection process will make these models a lot less attractive to sellers compared to what I believe will be compelling alternatives.

Nevertheless, let's acknowledge that brandables, notably in .COM, have shown tremendous capacity for asymmetric return and should continue to do very well for those with a good to spot them and enough patience to wait for someone else with money to agree with you!

thank you @Rob Monster or letting me know that Squadhelp has by far the most traffic


you may want to check Grant from Squadhelp 's post here in order to gain an idea
how to properly answer a question in a thread
and watch how he is properly promoting his business in explaining the benefits without spamming


compare that with your way of answering
and you may have an idea why you upset so many domainers
in spamming this forum with your hyper promotional way of posting
( linking to other spammy post of yours this time )

 

[frank-germany]

Hey!

I’m a brandable domainer. I have been at it for years and I have amassed a sizeable portfolio. I am successful. I also love what I do. ”Brandable domainer” to me means that I value names based on their gravitas as a prospective brand. The quality of the name is not derived from past or current usage or readily quantifiable stats, but from a human evaluation of it’s overall applicabilities in form and function.

The question that has been silently fraying my sanity is to what extent this success is derived from my work and to what extent it is related to the connection to buyer crowds that frequent the brandable marketplaces I use. It is a question I have seen posed many times in different forms. The brandable marketplaces themselves mostly dodge it.

I am sure that the boutique modus gets frequent buyers that are captivated by their descriptions and logos. The creative representation of a brand prospect creates a boost of appeal that could mean the difference between sale or not. So the occasional sale is most likely secured on those merits. Browsing or searching the well known site and finding a match that conceptually connects to the venture...

But it is not the occasional sale that suffers the 30%+ commission structure. It is all of them.

Afternic for example charges 20% flat. That is also a lot, but they do offer a connection to an amazing buyer pool through their network. They also do not demand exclusivity. With say Afternic, Sedo, etcetera, You can still have a sweet and individualized lander with a more forgiving commission somewhere else, if you want a logo and a description it might cost you $10 per name. This time as a clean investment that is 100% towards your own success.

Here are the bulletpoints for my decision.

• Name selection. You are not subject to a review process other than your own. For good or for bad.
• Pricing. You don’t need to consider ”accepting” a price that feels wrong.
• Information. You are investing in knowledge about your buyers considerations and in their future business needs.
• Exclusivity. You are free to work with a plethora of sales services.
• Ease of management. You are in charge. You are less likely to not respond in time or to ignore - yourself.
• Learning. You can use the information you harvest to evolve.
• Commissions. Even though you may miss out on the occasional brandable marketplace sale, your commission percentages will be lower.
• Marketing. You would not be setting a marketing budget aside when you pay 30% commissions. You would actually expect that percentage to pay for serious marketing.

My opinion about the brandable marketplaces is that they increasingly find themselves in a downward spiral. They inherently cater first to more or less lottery tickets that get a minor boost by a professional presentation. It is a setup where the house almost always wins, but where the workload from submissions makes those wins increasingly hard earned for the marketplaces.

I think a strategy to tackle this has been to actively recruit more premium names from older portfolios. But the holders of those are not even remotely as ”loyal” as the non-premium type variety, as they are not invested in the marketplace. Sometimes noob loyalty is even promoted by 1% outlaw biker vernacular!

I think that the inability to cater to the portfolio holders that have passed the initial stage of actually selling a couple of names and are in a steady growth mode is something to consider. That is where focus should be. It is regretfully not.

I hope for a fruitful discussion that could fast-track an evolution that builds on two very underestimated facts. The important end user buyers of aftermarket domains are businesses. Businesses want business names. Those two facts in turn pose two critical questions. What is a business name? (I’m definitely not talking about ”JohnsAutoRepairLouisiana”), and how should marketplaces connect fledgling businesses with these names?

It is safe to say that this process today is undeveloped, fragmented, convoluted and inefficient on both buyer and seller end. You can simplify transactions all day long, but if you don’t simplify the process of finding a prospect domain in the first place, you will not have a bigger pie.

A bigger pie should be a priority for any industry.

I invite all leading brandable marketplaces (and every domain sales platform worth the name) to comment on these sentiments. I will interpret no input as a bit offensive as your partnership with me has been lucrative. I would also interpret it as the unability to grab a marketing opportunity. (Abide by NP:s rules though).

2020!

@DAN.COM @Joe Styler @margotb @Jowita Emberton @GrantP @Rob Monster @DomainAgents @Uniregistry

(To the inevitable questions about my sales numbers I will only say that I have made hundreds of end user type sales and that yearly sales are in the 6 digits and growing. My portfolio size is 5k. I currently do not actively list new acquisitions with brandable marketplaces.)

thank you @trelgor for this interesting thread

I have started to moved my domains out of BrandBucket ( BB ) long ago

I was really upset that they put my account in "bad standing" when I started doing so.

I wasn't able to acquire BB published names here at namepros as mostly they want me to have a BB account in "great standing"
I can't even buy them for my own usage.


By the way, BB made a lot of money from my domains that they sold
but I didn't as they rejected a lot of names that I bought for the purpose of adding them to BB

It was hard to take all of the domains out of BB
as the system works based on what in marketing is called "fear of disconnect"

( remember they sold 5 fig worth of $ for me ( aka for them ) )


I discovered that afternic works as well as BB
for brandable domains
when you have fast transfer enabled and send them the traffic

 

[frank-germany]

A chief advantage of these marketplaces is that they allow for passive selling. You submit the name, agree to a commission, and let the marketplace attract the buyer and close the deal.

I highly doubt they do it for your domains
they might do it on a small scale for their own brand

but I understand they want you to believe that

 

[Embrand]

thank you @trelgor for this interesting thread

I have started to moved my domains out of BrandBucket ( BB ) long ago

I was really upset that they put my account in "bad standing" when I started doing so.

I wasn't able to acquire BB published names here at namepros as mostly they want me to have a BB account in "great standing"
I can't even buy them for my own usage.


By the way, BB made a lot of money from my domains that they sold
but I didn't as they rejected a lot of names that I bought for the purpose of adding them to BB

It was hard to take all of the domains out of BB
as the system works based on what in marketing is called "fear of disconnect"

( remember they sold 5 fig worth of $ for me ( aka for them ) )


I discovered that afternic works as well as BB
for brandable domains
when you have fast transfer enabled and send them the traffic

Yes, I agree it is not fair to be in bad standing for withdrawing names even though you have made BB loads of money. I have been in bad standing for years. Maybe there is a NamePros badge for that

 

[BrandChimp]

A "meta-marketplace" would be a great solution for end-users. An obstacle would be getting buy-in from the major marketplaces but maybe this could be circumvented by operating as a simple naming agency.

Can you elaborate on your vision for this, @trelgor?

@BrandChimp might be working on something similar...

Interesting.. This gave me an idea for Brandexy.com.

 

[getniche]

Thanks for tagging me @trelgor. You raise some interesting points. I will try to address this post from SH perspective.

In our experience, most businesses are looking for a great brand name first (they don't typically start with a domain name). We speak to thousands of customers as part of our branding consultations and most of them tell us that they want to build a great, memorable brand first. Of course, a matching domain name (ideally in .com) is a preference - but that is typically a secondary requirement.

It is a subtle distinction (brand name vs domain name), but it has some direct implications for domainers. Instead of selling domain names, it is important to think about how to package your domain as a brand.

We also find that many customers seek a modern, unique name that helps them stand out from the competitors. This has some implications as well. This typically means that the brand doesn't necessary need to include keywords related to the industry (in fact, to the contrary). Great brand names can be metaphors, or may evoke an emotion or feeling that resonates with the brand's promise.

This leads to the most important challenge in selling brandables - Discovery. Unless your domain name is a keyword rich domain, it becomes harder for end users to discover. This can especially be an issue when the domain is listed for sale in an uncurated marketplace with millions of other options. The customers must know precisely what to look for while searching for the domain name. Often times, this makes it harder to discover great brand names that do not include the keywords the customers may be searching for.

A benefit of curated marketplaces (it applies to all brandable marketplaces, not just SH) is that there is a pre-selection and curation to allow better discovery and buyer fatigue. If a buyer has to scroll through thousands of uncurated options, it is more likely they will get overwhelmed and miss out on the gems that are hidden in that sea of options.

However does the effort involved in curation and designing a logo alone justify the 30-35% commission? Absolutely not. We believe, it comes down to the level of investment being made in bringing potential end users. It is surprising to find that a large number of end users do not even know that after-market domain marketplaces even exist. Many of them start their search in Google, looking for a great brand name for their industry.

When it comes to Marketing investment, we believe there are four levels of investments that can be made by a marketplace:

1. Organic SEO (requires ongoing investment but can deliver long term results)
2. Retargeting (Requires low-moderate investment but can bring back the buyers who have already expressed interest in the brand)
3. Google Paid Search (Requires significantly higher investment, depending upon how many keywords are being targeted for paid ads)
4. Display Marketing (Highest level of investment because you are typically reaching prospective end users who haven't yet show an intent to buy a name)

Different Marketplaces make investments in some or all of the above categories. Some only rely on type in Traffic (no marketing investment). Others may have a decent SEO presence but very limited paid marketing.

At SH, we have built a set of highly extensive marketing campaigns that target thousands of keywords in Google and reaches entrepreneurs and brand managers via channels like Facebook, Twitter and google display. In addition, our organic SEO covers almost all industries that you can think of. For example, if you search for keywords like "clothing brand names" or "marketing brand name ideas", you will find SH in the top 3 organic search results in most industries. This is the reason, we are now getting over one million visitors per month.

However ultimately none of this matters if you are not able to sell more domain names than other alternatives. If you are able to achieve similar or better sell through rate on your domains via other alternatives, then it is prudent to list your domains at that platform which offers the lowest commission. Infact, even at SH, our basic listing commissions are only 7.5% - so if the domain is strong and keyword rich that it can attract type in traffic on it's own, one strategy could be to list it as a Basic listing. Of course you can also use your own lander or consider other alternatives.

Yes, there are certainly some restrictions when it comes to exclusivity and pricing flexibility. We do believe sellers should have more flexibility on pricing, which is why we recently announced that sellers can increase their selling price for upto 2X of originally approved price without needing any approval.

Regarding exclusivity, we are working on some syndication options that we will announce in the near future.

On the Discovery front, we have been making significant investment in combining the power of AI with the crowdsourced contest submissions. We have seen some very promising results from our AI based visual domain name search that allows buyers to discover great brand names after telling us their brand preferences. We plan to make further platform updates in this area in the near future.

The good news is that in 2020, there are lot more options and platforms for domainers than ever before. There will always be a Trade-off between sell through rate and commission % - and there is no single answer that can work for all domainers. Ultimately, we believe you should pick a platform (or a combination of platforms) that allow you to maximize your net returns (in aggregate, after accounting for all commissions).

If I can speak to the exclusivity portion...

I think it's lost on a lot of people that having thousands of domains (with thousands of domains pointed to them) redirected to your website creates an incredible SEO benefit that creates an abundance of opportunity.

The Alexa rank that @robmonster points to is further proof of this.

Grant's comment about working in syndication leads me to believe he recognizes that value and is working on a way to maintain the link equity, but still involve other marketplaces without sharing the love. Smart.

If you look at a business naming site not tied to a domain marketplace, such as NamingForce, you can see that they're missing that piece of the puzzle and are likely falling far behind because of it...500 referring domain names vs 20-30k for the others.

I'm bullish that the established brandable marketplaces are here to stay and I'd be pretty shocked if they don't start adding additional tools (ie domain registration/admin, escrow, dedicated brokers) that mimick other aftermarket sites. Not just because they can and should compete, but also to help fend off startups.

This should give them the opportunity to bring in the bigger players with the older/premium names at a lower commission. It seems building trust is the name of the game and that doesn't happen over night, but they're well into the night at this point.

Anyway, I'm fairly certain we'll see more competition before there is a final say on the brandable marketplaces as anyone with a decent portfolio could quickly make a play just by creating their own landers. It's quite the opportunity for any enterprising domainer with an eye on the industry.

 

[trelgor]

If I can speak to the exclusivity portion...

I think it's lost on a lot of people that having thousands of domains (with thousands of domains pointed to them) redirected to your website creates an incredible SEO benefit that creates an abundance of opportunity.

The Alexa rank that @robmonster points to is further proof of this.

Grant's comment about working in syndication leads me to believe he recognizes that value and is working on a way to maintain the link equity, but still involve other marketplaces without sharing the love. Smart.

If you look at a business naming site not tied to a domain marketplace, such as NamingForce, you can see that they're missing that piece of the puzzle and are likely falling far behind because of it...500 referring domain names vs 20-30k for the others.

Show attachment 140662

I'm bullish that the established brandable marketplaces are here to stay and I'd be pretty shocked if they don't start adding additional tools (ie domain registration/admin, escrow, dedicated brokers) that mimick other aftermarket sites. Not just because they can and should compete, but also to help fend off startups.

This should give them the opportunity to bring in the bigger players with the older/premium names at a lower commission. It seems building trust is the name of the game and that doesn't happen over night, but they're well into the night at this point.

Anyway, I'm fairly certain we'll see more competition before there is a final say on the brandable marketplaces as anyone with a decent portfolio could quickly make a play just by creating their own landers. It's quite the opportunity for any enterprising domainer with an eye on the industry.

I think though that at some point the brandable marketplaces are going to have
to recognize that seemingly comparable portfolios in terms of quality have very different outcome. I have seen many successful peers jump ship. If you think that these portfolios, and their creators, can be easily replaced, you are mistaken. The real profit in brandable domains are in the mid range and the profitable mid range names can only be found consistently by more seasoned domainers.

Lower the quality and STR will kill you. Too much evident market value - too low margins.

So, ignoring this I think will lead to quality polarization on these marketplaces. Hard work low quality submissions increase and the occasional established portfolo will experiment.