Labeled as question in Legal Discussion started by Avtar629, May 23, 2019.
Oh c'mon man. Stick around grab a beer it's all good! Good luck to you too buddy lol
Not understanding or empathy. Just a bit of analysis of the facts.
They didn't ask me "hand over all your VZ domains" they just said "if there are other domains related to the Verizon trademark".
As far VZ (abbreviations are hard "I've read to defend to take using Udrp) I really figured it was generic enough.
Unless Verizon has registered the VZ trademark for all goods and services. Plus 5G can stand for 5 grams or 5000.
If you want to be literal that should be just the keyword "Verizon" not VZ.
I don't understand really why they even asked me to do so when they should have already checked my entire list.
Unless they only really specifically contacted me because of VerizonVR.com.
VZ5G.com was probably not even on their radar. (Although they did finally get Verizon5G.com finally. From that other guy.,)
Google current worth $279.3 billion.
VZ5G is such a random set of numbers and letters... VZ might be TM but VZ5g?
u could've said endless things.. like made a site about VZ5G license plates...
But I bet your lander had something about cellphones,a nd that's what screwed you.
VZ5G.com with an undeveloped landing page does not violate TM (If VZ5G itself is not TM).
I forget where the domain was at before. I think Namesilo . I don't namesilo had parked page Landers . I don't know but I doubt that was it. That said.
Finally someone understands the point of the thread instead of just bashing on the "TM" idiot.
Actually VZ is a trademark though. I have to admit that.
ok. I answer your question best I can ......
Yes, it is ok you handed it over.
in the possession of most others, maybe vz5g is ok. Though not yours...
You already had their trademarked name, which you handed over. Therefore you couldn't represent VZ5G wasn't owned in the exact same spirit.
Hypothetically speaking, were you to have been pursued by 'them' for a domain like this all the way through to the end... the decision would most likely NOT go in your favor and you would have paid price.
I could have kept VZ5G.com I guess but if Verizon never buys domains (as the lawyer said) could I have sold this domain to say Chinese domain market as a LLNL.com?
I do see VZ5.com sold for $800 in 2017. It was reg in 2004. While the vz tm was live on 2002.
See there you go. I already knew this would be the bottomline. I had the VerizonVR.com domain. They approached me about this.
Was it a mistake to "volunteer" VZ5G.com and 5GVZ.com and VZW5G.com and 5GVZW.com.
I think I went "too out of my way to" get this lawyer off my back that I panicked and went out of my way to look into my domains.
Someone already mentioned that not handing over these domains would be constituted as "lying" but is it really given the technicality that they really came to me just asking for VerizonVR.com oh and of course VRVerizon.com
at face value if I played stupid. I could have just left it at just giving them all my "verizon" keyword domains and not VZ or VZW.
I really think I had a "deer caught in headlights" moment there and fearing being sued by the big bad Verizon.
If I did not "consider" VZ or VZW to be "Verizon" domains and considered them to be generic domains which is why I originally registered them in the first place was I obligated to hand them over to Verizon?
I just saw the sale of VZ5.com for $800 back in 2017.
This domain was registered back in 2004.
but the Verizon TM for VZ was live on 2002.
@Avatar629 You crack me up with those TM regges. I know how smart you so it always confuses me.
On another note, it's funny that you had V****** regges. Recently I looked at mixing up the letters of that company to create brandables.
I found that zeviron.com, zenivor.com and zevinor.com are available for hand reg. All scrambled words. Maybe you could start doing that....mixing up the letters.
I am not sure what is the point of all of this, you are wasting your time and money by keeping registering TM domains, and you are wasting domainers time for discussing this over and over again.. plz just stop doing it
why you insist doing it anyway? for adrenaline rush?
lol sometimes you have good ideas and then you have the brilliant idea to regged domains while drinking. lol jk jk .I don't drink.
I really did see that Verizon5G.com domain registration and thought hmmm what's going on here? how's this domain been registered since 2015-09-09.
Plus this wasn't the only domain I came across. here's another one.
VerizonWallet.com 2014-11-03 (The guy has not even used privacy. how gutsy is that?)
I did not register VerizonVR.com because I assumed the registrants of VerizonWallet.com and Verizon5G.com were "smart".
It was more my assumption that Verizon with it's huge resources are 1000X smarter than these registrant and if Verizon on the day I registered VerizonVR.com on 2017-12-01 did not go after these other domains for at least 2-3 years before I ever registered VerizonVR.com. Then I guess part of me assumed they never will?
Well I figured what the hell? and yes I did think maybe it could be used to create some website with a product or service not related to Verizon's trademark.
I know that defense is weak but I went with it mostly because I saw these two domains.
I do think I did find other "verizon" domains "in the wild".
Here's one but this guy at least had the common sense to have privacy.
And here's one that really takes the CAKE.
(I confuse you buddy? lol Imagine how confused I was when I saw this domain above and who actually owns it. Mike Mann's domainmarket.com.)
This one is the Best! I remember actually seeing this one actually.
VerizonGO.com 2007-10-25 but they call it VeriZongo.com
The problem my friend as I have proven in my last post before this one is how inconsistent companies are as far as chasing after offenders.
It's not black and white. It leads unsuspecting amateur domainers to believe that they CAN register VerizonVR.com and VRVerizon.com just because all other domains above were registered and never taken by the TM holder corp and kept by current registrants for years plus many don't even hide their whois info via privacy.
If things were more consistent then sure go ahead call me a fool 100%. what's the motivation to foolishly register VerizonVR.com? go visit VerizonSupport.com.
Now that domain is an obvious TM situation for sure with a huge bullseye on it's back.
yet as you can see it's with DomainMarket with a blatant price tag of $9,888.
Yea sure. DomainMarket has deeper pockets than me but DomainMarket might as well be poor as me when compared to the wealth Verizon so that can't be good argument to just say "well you are not rich like DomainMarket so you can't do it like DomainMarket"
Fact is if Verizon really wanted to they could steamroll over DomainMarket with their unlimited resources to pay for lawyers.
Yet till now they haven't.
There should be an amendment to the laws that states if a TM holder does not actively go after ALL TM issue domains and only cherry picks which domains it feels like going after then their TM is forfeit or at the very least domains containing their TM is free to keep.
At this point I am not defending registering VerizonVR.com as I already did handed it over. I'm just explaining the mindset since you asked.
Again I did not register VerizonVR.com because some dumb people did the same before me (that would be the dumb following the dumb scenario) but because super smart and super rich Verizon did not go after them to take their domains. That's me assuming Verizon is smart enough and yet for some reason did not go after those domains.
You would "think" a company like Verizon has smart enough people to figure out to go get VerizonSupport.com yet here we are.
I think that's the process I went thru before registering VerizonVR.com.
That plus a trademark can only provide you protection for the Goods and services you registered your trademark for.
(I have a trademark myself for my company name. So I understand this part at least as it was explained to me by the TM lawyer. For me to have full protection for all goods and services, I would have pay for each one. EXPENSIVE. Not only that. I would need to prove I provide those goods and services which most companies can't do even if they can afford it. i.e. GoogleAutoSales.com)
I think having a trademark of my own is partly to blame too.
I really love how people just assume there was no thought process in registering VerizonVR.com.
what was my plan? just to sit and wait. if no one ever approached me for it. I would have just let it go. I think Verizon really wanted VerizonVR.com as I only had it for a less than a year I think before they contacted me about it. I actually think VerizonSupport.com is way more important than going after VerizonVR.com.
The lawyer even told me that Verizon takes a while to get to TM domains but eventually they do. That led me to figure out they really wanted VerizonVR.com since they put it "ahead of the line" in front of VerizonPhone.com or VerizonVirtual.com.
the thing is too. Since the lawyer said Verizon has a policy of never buying domains in the aftermarket. why chase after any Verizon TM domain? I mean what options does a stupid domainer have if Verizon doesn't buy domains?
The end result would be the domainer would have to let the domain delete in the end anyways. In which case, Verizon could simply reregister it.
But they couldn't wait could they? Probably have some kind of VR roll out for Verizon.
The fact they targetted VerizonVR.com specifically means they needed it and that's it in a nutshell.
Like I said. on "paper" everything is a "good idea" until it isn't.
I don't have the time or energy to read your entire posts.
Research for you = Trademark basics | USPTO
I think its a neat story, really no set opinion of your choices. This market is all dog eat dog, so to each their own. but I think it would be a good idea to have a well worded response prepared prior to when they contact you, why not give a sob story and that you would appreciate them donating to a registered charity of your choice , at least some good could come of it, because your right, when do most people get direct contact with decision teams in huge corporations.
Avatar629. Here is some wise advice. Firstly it seems you are just complicating things for yourself. Why even try reg a domain that will cause all these issues. Simple common sense should prevail. A simple suggestion. Before registering a domain, ask a domain attorney. There are plenty that dont charge to give the advice. I do this every single day. You provide loooooooooooong explanations about why this or why that. Dont you see it makes no difference how you try and understand it. Basic logic i think. The reason why you need all this feedback is affirmation, that you were either wrong or right. Yes you have a right to earn money from buying and selling domains, like any business. It makes no difference why or if Verizon wanted the domain. They dont owe you any explanation. So unless you have billions in the bank to challenge them over a domain then why keep trying to justify why you are upset about this. Move on. Let it go. Life really is to short. I am sure you must have some really fantastic domains to sell. Personally i have bought alot of 5G domains, and i hope that i am able to sell them. And i have received a few offers already. For example for 1 of my domains 5gmilitary.com i was made a nice offer. And for networks5g.com I have never sold a domain as i am still new to this. Been buying domains for about 5 months, so i am still learning the ropes. My point is that buying and selling domains is like any business. You take a risk when you buy something. If it does not work out, learn from your mistakes and move on. As the saying goes, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Now that you have the whole Verison issue out of your system what positive news can you share
A guy contacted me on Linked in and said he wanted me to help him sell $Million dollar domain names. He gave me the list and it was all 'Exclusive Car brands' and then he said he knew they were copyright but that was ok because he only intended to sell them to the copyright owners.... errr I mean he wanted me to sell them. Idiot...
I shared this and then blocked him from my profile.
VZ5G.com was a good reg... Though it is a trademark, but you sure have an ability to look into the future. Good luck
Having sold a legitimate domain to Verizon ,
No TM keywords in the past, they were a pleasure to work with, paid all the fees, and paid within a day.
Playing in this space is very dangerous, now they have your name, and number, and you put yourself in a bad position going forward. I see some people do this to scrape a sale here, and there so they can renew their portfolio for another month, and stay above water. Not only are you doing yourself a disservice, but every domainer in here, and professional trying to seperate a domainer from a squatter.
Not sure why you use namepros, you really learn nothing, just the random post from you seeking redemption, or attention.
hmmm so they DO BUY DOMAINS.
I guess that's not the first time a lawyer has lied to get a job done.
or he just didn't know about your sale Verizon is a large company.
lol. ok well that wasn't my plan. I don't reg TM domains for the express purpose of reaching out to the TM holder to see if they want to buy.
I was just going to sit on VZ5G.com and the VerizonVR.com and wait. Didn't really have to wait long though.
So they couldn't have really have accused me to registering a domain to the "express" purpose to extort money from them. I was just sitting on it same as VerizonSupport.com.
I did not even have a price on the domain. If I lose $7 then I lose $7. That's the gist of it really. what did I hope for with it? eehh. you never know. They might not have gone the route of getting a lawyer breathing down my neck over it. BUT THEY DID.
I was along the lines of Mike Mann waiting for an offer on VerizonSupport.com or a buyer willing to pay $9000 for it.
There are a lot of "followers" on Namepros who look to the "pros" and follow their "lead" and consider it "law" or "Standard".
when the "pros" do this or that. the non-pros tend to follow and consider it standard.
is it really "unbelievable" or "unreasonable" that someone copied them?
I know I know. the next person is gonna say if Mike Mann jumped off a cliff would you? yadda yadda.
But many people on Namepros are "followers" whether they admit it or not. They sign up for DNF because the pros did the same. They sign up for DNAcademy because the pros did the same. I'm about to go with Domain Shane and Namebio to promote my domain auctions. Because the pros did the same.
Many here don't use Sedo to sell domains. Because many pros don't.
I can keep going but you get the point. Nobody really ever says anything negative when these "followers" follow what the "pros" do. It's just second nature and understood that the pros probably know something we non-pros don't.
we non-pros who do this part time in between our real jobs do things "easy". such and such did this and that so we'll copy because it's easier than doing a full blown research.
I can't be the only one on here who has done this as one point or another.
The proof shows daily in all the expired domains that drop and never get re-registered again by anyone.
Something interesting will always come up every day in the domain world. Following.
Separate names with a comma.