More Fraudulent Bidding Activity at DropCatch.com

[Arca]

DropCatch.com just can't get rid of fraudulent bidding activity on their platform. Fraudulent bidders bid up prices, don’t pay when they win, and then the names are re-auctioned again and again until a legit bidder wins.

It is a win-win system for DropCatch. If the fraudulent bidders bid up a legit bidder, DC cash out even more thanks to the fraudulent bidder driving up the price beyond where it would have gone with only legit bidders. If the fraudulent bidder wins, they simply hold and re-auction the name over and over until they get a legit bidder that pays. It's a problematic system for regular bidders, because before these fraudulent bid handles get suspended, they bid up legit bidders in various auctions.

DropCatch's system enables them to get paid for names even with so many fraudulent non-paying bidders on their platform. But even with this auction restarting system in place, there are simply so many fraudulent bidders that they sometimes struggle to find a legit winner, despite multipe re-auctions. Take CannaMarket.com. The domain has already been won by THREE DIFFERENT fraudulent bidders. The first winner, in the original auction, was fraudulent. The name was re-auctioned. The second winner was fraudulent. The name was re-auctioned. The third winner was fraudulent (he bid the name up to $4K). When a name can score a triple fraudulent bidder combo streak on their platform, with no legit winner in sight, it’s clear that there is something wrong with how their system works. They are currently holding cannamarket.com in a dropcatch.com holding account, and I wonder whether they will try to re-auction the name a fourth time, or just let it drop since this is obviously a bad look for them when three out of three attempts of auctioning off the name ended up with fraudulent bidding activity (and who is going to be brave enough to bid against all the fraudulent bidders in a fourth auction? This name is apparently a fraud magnet).

Then there was this auction for lumeo.com recently (it was bid up to $14K by a bidder that most likely is fraudulent, and the winner has not yet paid, and the payment deadline passed a few days ago). How long until this name gets re-auctioned due to fraudulent bidding activity?

I often get emails from dropcatch saying "due to complications involving potentially fraudulent activity, the following auctions you had participated in are being restarted". A quick search shows an inbox full of emails notifying me of fraudulent bidding activity and auctions being restarted:

I just received another one today. It contained another SEVEN auction names that closed recently with fraudulent bidding activity:

cybercorp.com - Sold for $1251
sefin.com - Sold for $665
devlog.com - Sold for $343
thermair.com - Sold for $457
simplypretty.com - Sold for $515
finte.com - Sold for $350
kinovo.com - Sold for $330

All these auctions involved fraudulent bidding, and have now been restarted (you can go to dropcatch.com and bid on them right now). A quick visit to the dropcatch.com website shows a other restarted auctions as well, such as for evinite.com (sold for $142) and acercloud.com (sold for $370). Will legit bidders win these restarted auctions this time around?

DropCatch.com is very much like a game of hot potato, where fraudulent bidders bid up auctions and don't pay when they come out winning. There is a significant amount of auctions being restarted due to winners not paying up, when compared with other expired domains auctions platforms. The result is that legit bidders have to pay, literally, for the presence of so many fraudulent bidders on this platform that bid up the prices for legit bidders. Just an advice for everyone to be aware of this issue when participating in auctions at dropcatch.com.

 

[wwwweb]

Newnew did pay for mentalize.com, a domain he won a few days prior to powerofart.com. He also bid up to $2250 for globalenergy.com, so it's strange that he would let his account be terminated over a $573 win.

If it was a larger amount I can understand a wire transfer, but for $5xx, paypal, credit card, should have been completed yesterday by 8AM MST according to Dropcatch TOS.

I am not sure how they work their internal controls, but on their payment due emails, they do state the payment due date very carefully. I have never got to the point of going over that date so I am not sure what action they do take, or if they do extend some sort of grace, maybe others can weigh in other than WittyNut.

I guess what I am trying to parlay is by giving bidders payment waivers creates an unfair bidding advantage if they are playing with funds not in hand, as they are just gambling with the hopes of covering their debt within a certain window. Not ultimately fair to the people they are bidding against, and bidding up who do have funds in hand ready to execute. There is no one set of rules now for all, so maybe runner up award system like Godaddy is more fair, as it executes after payment is overdue, and it works well.

Under the current system it seems not everyone runs on the same set of rules, and circumstances, which ultimately punishes people who bid according to the TOS, and rules of the platform itself.

 

[OralB]

Newnew did pay for mentalize.com, a domain he won a few days prior to powerofart.com. He also bid up to $2250 for globalenergy.com, so it's strange that he would let his account be terminated over a $573 win.

There is another bizarre occurrence on the auction for GlobalEnergy.com.
I was following that auction closely and the actual high bid of $19,100 was from user NewNew, however his bids were all removed a few seconds before the auction was closed and the domain was won by PostPost for $18,900.
I think PostPost and NewNew were the same person and that person was trying to scare other bidders off by bidding high.
The problem was that he didnt think that someone else would be actively bidding on that name (w a r l o r d).

 

[wwwweb]

There is another bizarre occurrence on the auction for GlobalEnergy.com.
I was following that auction closely and the actual high bid of $19,100 was from user NewNew, however his bids were all removed a few seconds before the auction was closed and the domain was won by PostPost for $18,900.
I think PostPost and NewNew were the same person and that person was trying to scare other bidders off by bidding high.
The problem was that he didnt think that someone else would be actively bidding on that name (w a r l o r d).

Yes, warlord always seems to come in second place on these big bids.

Given usernames PostPost, and NewNew there seems to be some sort of symmetrical connection. Only thing is this auction format would not benefit two of the same parties bidding against each other, I see no clear advantage in doing so... Maybe someone else can see it?

 

[wwwweb]

There is another bizarre occurrence on the auction for GlobalEnergy.com.
I was following that auction closely and the actual high bid of $19,100 was from user NewNew, however his bids were all removed a few seconds before the auction was closed and the domain was won by PostPost for $18,900.
I think PostPost and NewNew were the same person and that person was trying to scare other bidders off by bidding high.
The problem was that he didnt think that someone else would be actively bidding on that name (w a r l o r d).

NEWNEW still did not complete their $573 bid for PowerOfArt.com on Nov 3, they are now 48 hours past the payment deadline, I guess their next username will be OLDOLD.

The fact they did not complete the payment could have something to do with OralB's reference to what happend at the last minute in the GlobalEnergy.com auction.

Who knows anymore?

In the meantime still waiting for Dropcatch to make things right with all the users who were bidded up by Wittynut, and other illicit bidders into the thousands, many have been patient, none of this we need more time nonsense.

 

[main]

There is a very active bidder with the bid handle “wnnrscrs”. It belongs to a domainer with 8000+ domains. It appears that he has not paid for any won domains over the past month. I was not able to locate anypaid for domains earlier than mid September. All names won since September 29 appear to not have been paid for yet.

Until you pay for a domain at DropCatch WHOIS will say “This domain was caught by DropCatch.com” and “[email protected]”. All names not yet won or paid for have this WHOIS info. That’s what names won by wittynut still say this if you look up WHOIS for those names. And that’s what WHOIS for all names won by “wnnrscrs” over the past month reflect too, a DropCatch holding account. And they forward to a dropcatch page. If he had paid for them, the names would have been promptly moved to his account and WHOIS would have reflected his personal information. Or could there be another reason for this to be happning? Please let me know if there are other valid reasons for DropCatch to be holding your won and paid for domains for more than a month. I have not been able to think of any reason they would do this. I get domains into my namebright account within 60 seconds paying. But that said, I am not completely excluding the possibility that this domainer just likes DropCatch to hold his domains after he has paid for them (though that would be very counterproductive as he can't sell them when he doesn't have them in his account). So based on what I have seen I assume this is another wittynut situation where a bidder has been allowed to continue to bid without paying, but I am also open to the possibility that I am wrong too (and that's why I have left out his name in this post). Please let me know if you find any evidence that indicates that these names are paid for, or if you think these names are not paid for yet.

Now the strange thing about these seemingly unpaid for auctions is that if I don’t pay for a domain, I can’t do anything at all. I can’t bid on domains, I can’t place backorders, nothing. My account is entirely frozen until I pay. That’s how it should be. But based on the many examples that have come to light so far, this restriction does not affect all bidders. And it does not affect “wnnrscrs” as he is still bidding on domains. Shouldn't he have lost bidding functionality on in September if he didn't pay for a domain then? Letting people continue to bid day after day when they owe money for won auctions doesn't make sense. At least freeze their accounts while you wait for the funds to be added.

Furthermore, here are DropCatch’s terms and conditions regarding this:

Failure to make a payment for a successful backorder within 96 hours (4 days) of that backordered domain being registered by DropCatch will result in an immediate termination of your DropCatch account and the domain will be treated as an “Unpaid Backorder" per this Agreement.

Based on the various examples that have come to light so far, “immediate termination” of a DropCatch account upon non-payment is not applied to all users. If DropCatch followed this part of their terms and conditions, they would have suspended “wnnrscrs” on October 4. Other fraudulent bidders have also kept bidding for longer than 4 days (though if the same rules applied to them as regular users, they would not have been able to keep bidding for a single additional day until they paid). “wnnrscrs” continues to bid on domains. One of the most recent auctions won by “wnnrscrs” is the foodball.com auction (an auction that was restarted due to the prior winner being fraudulet).

Here are some of the auctions won by “wnnrscrs”:

foodball.com - Won for $554 on 1 November - Payment deadline: 5 November
dutchtouch.com - Won for $505 on 26 October - Payment deadline: 30 October
fairmeadow.com - Won for $125 on 15 October - Payment deadline: 19 October
hoefs.com - Won for $418 on 06 October - Payment deadline: 10 October
petitspois.com - Won for $131 on 04 October - Payment deadline: 8 October
paget.com - Won for $1,355 on 04 October - Payment deadline: 8 October
aerts.com - Won for $827 on 29 September - payment deadline: 3 October

Screenshots:
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wnnrscrs is still actively participating in auctions daily despite seemingly not having paid for won auctions going back to at least 45 days ago. Come on DropCatch. What's going on?

 

[wwwweb]

wnnrscrs is still actively participating in auctions daily despite seemingly not having paid for won auctions going back to at least 45 days ago. Come on DropCatch. What's going on?

It is no secret what is going on, for all those registry connections, and dominance in the marketplace Dropcatch needs to spend many of millions of dollars to stay on top. In doing so they need to generate massive revenue from Dropcatch, and that takes active bidders.

Losing xdaydreamx was a huge blow, right now ckrgksanrndghk, and leader are two of the most active bidders on dropcatch, they are relentless in their bidding. They keep the outbid notices flowing, and prices pretty fat. You are not going to score any deals, you really need to pay up. I can imagine their $25M annual renewal bill for HugeDomains is no walk in the park either, about $2.1 million per month.

@main goes back to the point, different people operate by a different set of rules, so nothing has been really addressed from the time of the owners posts last week, if you say their are outstanding auctions to be paid for, and this person's cart has not locked them out, all i ask is WHY NOT?

Maybe things are not as rosy as we think over there... We are seeing the implosion of Pheenix now also, where support has gone dormant, winning auctions are being pulled back for the owners own account, and many people are getting bad auth codes, Namejet has their own issues also that still need to be addressed. Namejet is looking to private sales moreso now, as it is getting harder to get good drops.

 

[tonyk2000]

It seems their whole scheme allows to maintain this number of registrars because of serving hugedomains AND dropcatch at the same time. Indeed, no private domainer (including Reberry brothers themselves before going public) did not yet find it profitable to maintain so many registrars for their internal needs exclusively. Similarly, no public dropcatcher did not yet find it profitable to set so many registrars for public dropcatching (recent failure of pheenix who voluntary dropped hundreds of their registrars is a perfect proof).

So, natural decrease in DropCatch auctions activity - most likely due to more domainers opening their eyes - and of course due to some accounts being really banned - may well change THE WHOLE scheme of how dropcatch/hugedomains are operating. It would be interesting to watch...

Isn't it time for DropCatch to realize that their setup of public auctions without obligatory prefunding is by itself vulnerable, that this is the root cause of all the problems, and change it?

 

[wwwweb]

It seems their whole scheme allows to maintain this number of registrars because of serving hugedomains AND dropcatch at the same time. Indeed, no private domainer (including Reberry brothers themselves before going public) did not yet find it profitable to maintain so many registrars for their internal needs exclusively. Similarly, no public dropcatcher did not yet find it profitable to set so many registrars for public dropcatching (recent failure of pheenix who voluntary dropped hundreds of their registrars is a perfect proof).

So, natural decrease in DropCatch auctions activity - most likely due to more domainers opening their eyes - and of course due to some accounts being really banned - may well change THE WHOLE scheme of how dropcatch/hugedomains are operating. It would be interesting to watch...

Isn't it time for DropCatch to realize that their setup of public auctions without obligatory prefunding is by itself vulnerable, that this is the root cause of all the problems, and change it?

What you state makes perfect sense, and would lay all this nonsense to rest, but I feel Dropcatch knows they will not be as profitable, or maybe not profitable at all if they go this route.

Lax internal controls only look to benefit the house, and not bidders, until people start talking with their wallets, I doubt much will change.

As states by Main above wnnrscrs is still outbidding legit bidders even though they have an unpaid cart. We still have NEWNEW, POSTPOST identity crisis going on, WittyNut still needs to be brought to justice for the tens of thousands of false bids he bid people up on.

Almost Friday, and no resolution from Dropcatch yet, I really hope they don't go back on their word to their clients.

 

[tonyk2000]

wnnrscrs is still outbidding legit bidders

I think I saw this bidder replying here, or maybe in namejet thread. At least I somehow linked this bidding alias with a forum nickname and/or independently checked routine whois outputs. Do not remember exactly what forum nickname it was, but, if the above finding is correct, maybe he has something useful to share in this thread? In particular, how to bid without paying for previous purchases?

 

[main]

I don't think wnnrscrs posts in forums. @tonyk2000 You might have seen the name from Arca's original post about him. DropCatch probably gives some special privileges to big spenders, but 45 days+ without payment is over the top. Meanwhile he continues to bid up thousands.

 

[wwwweb]

I don't think wnnrscrs posts in forums. @tonyk2000 You might have seen the name from Arca's original post about him. DropCatch probably gives some special privileges to big spenders, but 45 days+ without payment is over the top. Meanwhile he continues to bid up thousands.

Is he winning anything, he always seems to come up runner up in what I follow?

 

[main]

He wins extremely often. He is big on names and foreign domains.

 

[wwwweb]

Well judgement day is upon us Dropcatch, looking forward to what your investigations have produced, I am sure given all the other questions and concerns, others are also.......

 

[Arca]

The auction for this domain has been restarted due to a non-paying winner on Oct 29:

ahanalat.com $224

 

[wwwweb]

He wins extremely often. He is big on names and foreign domains.

Clearly the owners of Dropcatch are monitoring this, you brought this unicorn bidder who magically keeps bidding without paying to their attention, nothing has changed, so this party must have a special arrangement with them, which undermines the whole platform as a whole in terms of upholding bidder integrity, and trust.

 

[main]

Actually, Arca discovered it. We await to see what DropCatch says.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

@wwwweb @Arca and others --- you all are doing a great job pointing out irregularities. If the Reberry's comments were sincere, I assume they are also appreciative of everyone's effort here. Sincerely, keep up the good work everyone!

I'm still rooting for a happy ending here. What Jeff Reberry said last saturday (give them a week to rectify this and issue a transparent fare proposal on a resolution See below.

Thank you for bringing these things up. We see and recognize the issue here. We are working on a plan to rectify this, please give us this week to fully figure out what is needed programmatically and allow us to give you all an extremely fair proposal on how to resolve this. We will be fully transparent.

With everything going on in the domain auction world right now, it sure would be nice to see DropCatch make everything right, and solidify themselves as the leader is domain auction transparency and ethics.

My fingers crossed for a happy ending here. The industry is in need a transparency win right now. DropCatch may take a financial hit righting these wrongs, but I'm sure said transparency and corrective actions will pay dividends in the long run. They asked for a week (last Saturday) to fully figure out what is needed programmatically and allow them to give the public a extremely fair proposal on how to resolve this with full transparency.

Lastly, THANK YOU @Jeff Reberry and @Rebies for your very professional and promising initial comments to this complicated situation. I hope you don't heed the advice given by others avoiding hot water issues (below image), and you do indeed follow through with the promise to return to NamePros with said transparent proposals, and rectifications.

https://twitter.com/andrewrosener/status/927662796552200195
(screenshot was edited with constructive editing in red font / black strike through lines)

 

[wwwweb]

So a week has come, and gone...

Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer. - Muhammad Ali

 

[Chris Hydrick]

So a week has come, and gone...

In fairness, it hasn't been a full week yet. Tomorrow around noon marks the full week. Let's have a little faith and give them the full week they asked for, before coming to any conclusion that they won't be responding, or will be going silent.

One week to tackle this complicated issue was an aggressive timeline to begin with. Even if they haven't figured out the complete solution / rectification, I hope they can honor their word, and at least issue an update / statement on what's going on / being discussed. All with an emphasis on transparency in rectifying issues the public brought up that slipped through the cracks of DropCatch.

When you don't meet a deadline, you don't sweep it under the rug, and forget about it. You inform all involved that an extension is needed, and state the reasons why, to be transparent in finding the best possible solution(s) / rectification(s) without rushing to rushed deadline influenced conclusions.

 

[wwwweb]

In fairness, it hasn't been a full week yet. Tomorrow around noon marks the full week. Let's have a little faith and give them the full week they asked for, before coming to any conclusion that they won't be responding, or will be going silent.

One week to tackle this complicated issue was an aggressive timeline to begin with. Even if they haven't figured out the complete solution / rectification, I hope they can honor their word, and at least issue an update / statement on what's going on / being discussed. All with an emphasis on transparency in rectifying issues the public brought up that slipped through the crack of DropCatch.

When you don't meet a deadline, you don't sweep it under the rug, and forget about it. You inform all involved that an extension is needed, and state the reasons why, to be transparent in finding the best possible solution(s) / rectification(s) without rushing to rushed deadline influenced conclusions.

I respect your optimism, but to be honest I wouldn't expect anyone to hold their breath.

If it really bothered them, and made them sick to their stomach they might have had a sense of urgency to squash it.


They had all week to figure it out, and clearly it's not a priority.

I hope I'm proven wrong, but as it stands now, it is what it is.

 

[Addison]

Lastly, THANK YOU @Jeff Reberry and @Rebies for your very professional and promising initial comments to this complicated situation. I hope you don't heed the advice given by others avoiding hot water issues (below image), and you do indeed follow through with the promise to return to NamePros with said transparent proposals, and rectifications.

I am trustful that they're doing everything they can. Give them time. They've earned it.

https://twitter.com/andrewrosener/status/927662796552200195
(screenshot was edited with constructive editing in red font / black strike through lines)

It's bizarre for a grown man to pout and throw hissy fits on a tweenie platform like Twitter.

"The truth will set you free"

 

[Jeff Reberry]

Quick update. We are still looking into these issues so we can give everyone accurate information when we respond. We appreciate your patience and will try our best to have an update later this week.

We have already identified a handful of improvements we will be implementing.

If you have any questions or concerns until then, you can reach out to support directly at [email protected].

Thank you

 

[Arca]

MicroSD.com sold for $8,251 on Nov 4 @ dropcatch.

The winner did not pay and the auction has been restarted.

Did anyone catch the winning and second highest bidders for this one?

 

[wwwweb]

MicroSD.com sold for $8,251 on Nov 4 @ dropcatch.

The winner did not pay and the auction has been restarted.

Did anyone catch the winning and second highest bidders for this one?

I was watching that auction, due to the abnormal price, didn't make sense, wish I noted usernames more closely.

I would hope Dropcatch is not just observing , and is starting to implement immediately to restrict their clients from being defrauded by deadbeat, and front running bidders which have been left to run wild on the platform.

Hope the Reyberry's had a relaxing weekend, and are ready to roll up their sleeves, and actually get to work fixing fraudulent bidder issues, and making things right for their cheated clients.

Yes, harsh words brought on by a lack of ongoing actions, can't stand it when people by time with exscuses.

#NoMoreExscuses

 

[Arca]

The auctions for these domains have been restarted due to fraudulent bidding activity on November 5:

unilogistics.com sold for $2,950
iside.com sold for $518
elizabethrichardson.com sold for $244