discuss Increase In New Domain Investors... Good or Bad?

[Silentptnr]

I feel like over the past few years there has been a dramatic increase in the number of domain name investors. Not sure if it is good or bad for the market.

Maybe the increase has hurt retail prices? Let's hear your opinion whether you are a new Investors or even investing for a while.

 

[hookbox]

If you really want to know what's bad for our industry it's Huge Domains. They have monopolized this industry and are knocking out domainers by the handful.

 

[shorterwinters]

Originally I read it wrong as I thought the last statement was directed at me..My bad....

Great! I am glad you saw it as it was meant to be.
I like threads like this with ideas and thoughts shooting all over the place. Lots to see and think on.

 

[joro001]

There is no question in my mind all auction houses are far more competitive than they were before. In the past year in particular I have noticed prices going crazy for pretty much anything that's even half way good. When you check Namebio daily many names could easily be end user sales not domainer buys which says everything.

Yes there are still some exceptions and if you do this full time there are opportunities out there. Overall though competition is too high to be net positive for most investors in 2017.

 

[bmugford]

There is no question in my mind all auction houses are far more competitive than they were before. In the past year in particular I have noticed prices going crazy for pretty much anything that's even half way good. When you check Namebio daily many names could easily be end user sales not domainer buys which says everything.

Yes there are still some exceptions and if you do this full time there are opportunities out there. Overall though competition is too high to be net positive for most investors in 2017.

In my view end user demand has remained relatively stable, while re-seller prices have risen dramatically on venues like GoDaddy, NJ, etc.

It seems like a lot of the big money investors are paying prices I consider silly for very average .COM.
Many of the people buying these have massive portfolios to fall back on.

It is one thing to turn a profit with a cheap initial cost. However, If you consider the prices being paid, and how slow it is to sell domains, the math just does not make sense. I think the "resell" prices are often more than an end user is likely to pay.

Brad

 

[joro001]

In my view end user demand has remained relatively stable, while re-seller prices have risen dramatically on venues like GoDaddy, NJ, etc.

It seems like a lot of the big money investors are paying prices I consider silly for very average .COM.
Many of the people buying these have massive portfolios to fall back on.

It is one thing to turn a profit with a cheap initial cost. However, If you consider the prices being paid, and how slow it is to sell domains, the math just does not make sense. I think the "resell" prices are often more than an end user is likely to pay.

Brad

Completely agree with your assessment, that's what i'm seeing and experiencing as well.

 

[Silentptnr]

I like the idea of more money and awareness, and I do think the early investors in ultra premium will continue to see their domains appreciate over time, but I also believe that investors need to carefully watch this shaping industry. There are more and more people finding domain names as investments and I think it's only the beginning. There are pricing pressures that are occuring from several angles. The fact that ICANN keeps pumping more domains into the market is questionable as well in terms of the health of the industry. If you keep printing money, the value goes down.

I look forward to more people buying good aftermarket domains. For me, I just want each of my 6050 domains to be sold for 1000+. I think I'll need more people in the market to accomplish that.

Overall, I think fresh investors are good.

 

[kemjika11]

Because you still don't have a viable business model in this scenario.

With enough volume you do.I think people need to be more dynamic. Sometimes relying only on end user sales isnt realistic OR you wait a loooong time(and stay in the red for a long time too).

You are selling to other investors from your existing inventory, but how do you stock up ?

You should have been stocking up before that time came. Timing matters, so if you "get in" late thats on you!

 

[Kate]

I suppose it could be a bad thing if they will be competing against you at auctions
Is it a good thing ? Maybe if they join NP and contribute to discussions and give some insight. Otherwise they are just business(wo)men and they are your competitors. But maybe they will find their own niches and you won't be affected much by their presence. So it's hard to say.

Think of it this way... when you go for a great domain name at auction how many people are really competing with you? I still pick up some fantastic domains for low $$$ and only been at the table with 2-3 other bidders.

Me too. Even zero competition sometimes. But it's not always like that.

Most premium (3L / Single Word) domains only have 200-300 people at the table (at best), watching and participating (NameJet).

So think about that...

7 Billion people on this rock, and only a few hundred actively buying domains on a daily basis.

True, we are a very special breed of insiders but the small pool of bidders is enough to drive up prices at end user levels and even above. Also, our industry is little-known but it is very small too. It is lucrative but for a limited number of participants.

When you think of it, 'investors' have huge portfolios with millions of names that will never sell - it's scary. The biggest problem is the lack of liquidity. Domains are not like stocks, they cannot be 'redeemed' easily so the amount of cash circulating is severely capped.
Also, more investors doesn't mean that more money will be made. If the end user demand (aka the 'pie') remains more or less constant, the majority of investors will be hungry. And there is a huge disconnect between domainers expectations and the market (what end users are willing to pay).

 

[biggie]

In the long run - Bad.


The only people really happy to see more people coming into domaining, are the registries and registrars. imo.

yeah, them and the pick and shovel sellers



imo...

 

[MapleDots]

More piranhas in the tank.

More Fire Sales as they realize it's renewal time

Don't buy the domains if you don't have money in your business account to pay for the renewals.

 

[Silentptnr]

More Fire Sales as they realize it's renewal time

Don't buy the domains if you don't have money in your business account to pay for the renewals.

Sometimes when people ask for reseller price I think they mean fire sale price. Not sure what reseller/wholesale prices are. It just started out of nowhere.

 

[Silentptnr]

I think all the spam is bad though. I don't think it's good for domaining.

 

[pinkdragon]

I am one of those so called "new investors".N00B, newbie, wannabe, whatever. Most of us will fail in this business, and probably 5% will survive and succeed. And here is why I think this:

1. Lack of education in domaining. We cannot tell what is good and what is wrong. Often, we register bad and very bad names.

2. Hand regged - it took me about 6 months of reading and research to understand it is better to buy from aftermarket. I can find here good names for $ 15 - $ 50. But NO, I was thinking I am smart, and I hand regged 20+ domains. And I did this with English as my second language. You can imagine what kind of names I got.

3. Without spoiling anyone ... all old domainers, please look at this board, and what most newbies are posting. Asking minimum $ xxx for shitty domain hacks, for new-gTLDs, for IDNs, etc. I don't think this is a threat for you. You have good names, we, the n00bs, don't have. For the moment, we think "every thing which fly can be eaten".

4. Most of new "domainers", like me, have ZERO knowledge in sales, negotiation, finding an end-user, and so on. We just read on internet that we can make money from domain flipping. Most of us don't have big budgets to start this, and buy good names which can be flipped easily.

I would like other newbies to post here and express their opinions.

 

[LarryDomain]

More competition is never a bad thing when you already have domains to sell. So if more people causes prices of auctions to go up. Start listing your own domains to sell. It's business 101 that prices goes up when there is competition for a scarce product.

Just wait till those Chinese folks get board of Bitcoins. They will use their profit from Bitcoins to buy domain names again.

Patience is the game. Don't over spend and have to liquidate your holdings to pay for reg fees.

 

[Silentptnr]

More competition is never a bad thing when you already have domains to sell. So if more people causes prices of auctions to go up. Start listing your own domains to sell. It's business 101 that prices goes up when there is competition for a scarce product.

Just wait till those Chinese folks get board of Bitcoins. They will use their profit from Bitcoins to buy domain names again.

Patience is the game. Don't over spend and have to liquidate your holdings to pay for reg fees.

This is the same way I am thinking. There should be investment funds where people can just invest some money and don't have to actually pick the domain names. I think they do this in China.

 

[Asfas1000]

More competition is never a bad thing when you already have domains to sell. So if more people causes prices of auctions to go up. Start listing your own domains to sell. It's business 101 that prices goes up when there is competition for a scarce product.

Just wait till those Chinese folks get board of Bitcoins. They will use their profit from Bitcoins to buy domain names again.

Patience is the game. Don't over spend and have to liquidate your holdings to pay for reg fees.

I still don't understand. If you sell your existing domains, you are making money off your past purchases. That's good.

But how about your current business model ? What do you buy - what do you sell ?

 

[Silentptnr]

Yes, new domainers can buy old domains and old domainers can buy new domains. There was a new member that asked if they should continue domaining because they had spent $20 last year and bought 3 domain names.

Is this common that a person thinks domaining is spending $20, buying 3 domain names and then trying to sell them after almost the full year? Is this what people are told domain investing is?

 

[LarryDomain]

Well I don't consider people who buys a handful of domains to hold as investments as Domainers. Domainers are people who accumulate 100+ domains or 20-50 high quality domains. Those people will definitely have some to sell when competition pushes prices up at Auctions.

Domains are similar to other investments like coins, stocks..etc Prices goes up and down so sell when it's up and pick up more when it's down.

I love it when I see prices sell higher and higher on auctions. Just means my portfolio is going higher and higher!

Do not fear competition! Embrace it

Show attachment 60691



HeHe

Lets hope it was not a 60 year old dude sitting in his underwear pretending to be an innocent young business lady.

Just joking of course, but you have to admit it is funny

I still don't understand. If you sell your existing domains, you are making money off your past purchases. That's good.

But how about your current business model ? What do you buy - what do you sell ?

 

[Asfas1000]

Well I don't consider people who buys a handful of domains to hold as investments as Domainers. Domainers are people who accumulate 100+ domains or 20-50 high quality domains. Those people will definitely have some to sell when competition pushes prices up at Auctions.

Domains are similar to other investments like coins, stocks..etc Prices goes up and down so sell when it's up and pick up more when it's down.

I love it when I see prices sell higher and higher on auctions. Just means my portfolio is going higher and higher!

Do not fear competition! Embrace it

I guess we'll agree to disagree.

Thanks for the explanation. Although I don't agree.

For instance, I see a lot of competition on GD, the drops etc, but look at the auctions here on NP. I think they are pretty much dead !!!

 

[Silentptnr]

So if an inexperienced domainer had a good name at a price way below market, would you buy it for cheap or tell them the price is too low?

 

[Want2learn]

@shorterwinters - I was simply making a general statement that can be applied to domain investing....More investors mean increased revenue which increases sale prices. The focus should be on the selling side and not the buy side.....Same principles as real estate. Would you rather trade real estate in Beverly Hills or Mojave desert mobile homes?

Interesting point, but good agents can make money in both areas!

 

[Silentptnr]

I just read a published list of ultra premiums owned by George Kirikos... Now that's a portfolio...

511.com
HT.com
Leap.com
Bulk.com
NW.com
Pal.com
School.com
Options.com
Math.com

Those are 10 of his better domains. Now that's a portfolio. I bet he uses two factor authentication.

New domainers couldn't get those names in a million years. I just think of what I could have had 20 years ago.

Thanks James! https://www.namepros.com/blog/top-10-domain-names-owned-by-george-kirikos.1023999/

 

[equity78]

I like the idea of more money and awareness, and I do think the early investors in ultra premium will continue to see their domains appreciate over time, but I also believe that investors need to carefully watch this shaping industry. There are more and more people finding domain names as investments and I think it's only the beginning. There are pricing pressures that are occuring from several angles. The fact that ICANN keeps pumping more domains into the market is questionable as well in terms of the health of the industry. If you keep printing money, the value goes down.

I look forward to more people buying good aftermarket domains. For me, I just want each of my 6050 domains to be sold for 1000+. I think I'll need more people in the market to accomplish that.

Overall, I think fresh investors are good.

You make a good point, but ICANN does not care about this industry, they will pump more extensions because that makes them money. We are not all on the same team as domainers, once you get to registries, registrars and governing bodies that point is only amplified.

Be ethical, try to help if you can but never look at this as an industry united. it never was and never will be, there are pockets of shared interests like communities here at Namepros then there are other groups that don't like Namepros.

I agree with @hookbox that returns narrow, especially for those with non super premium names, more people from all over the world get into the game, and while flipping a name for $100 profit might not be a big deal to hookbox or the best use of his time, there are billions of people where that would be life changing money.

P.S. Imo domains are nothing like stocks, just because prices can move up and down that does not make them alike. We all can own Google shares and benefit in the upside, only George Kirikos owns Math.com his profit only benefits him and so on and so forth.

 

[hookbox]

I just read a published list of ultra premiums owned by George Kirikos... Now that's a portfolio...

511.com
HT.com
Leap.com
Bulk.com
NW.com
Pal.com
School.com
Options.com
Math.com

Those are 10 of his better domains. Now that's a portfolio. I bet he uses two factor authentication.

New domainers couldn't get those names in a million years. I just think of what I could have had 20 years ago.

Thanks James! https://www.namepros.com/blog/top-10-domain-names-owned-by-george-kirikos.1023999/

"I bet he uses two factor authentication. "

That was hilarious!

 

[Asfas1000]

P.S. Imo domains are nothing like stocks, just because prices can move up and down that does not make them alike. We all can own Google shares and benefit in the upside, only George Kirikos owns Math.com his profit only benefits him and so on and so forth.

Totally agree here.