Holo vs VR vs MR vs AR vs any other reality (All realities)

[VRdommy]

Intel Project Alloy - A Must Read
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3108...first-open-source-third-party-vr-headset.html

The pace of change with new VR product designs is about to increase exponentially.
And while this is one thing to move that along, it's not the only thing.

...MORE...
http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/intel-project-alloy-vr-ar-merged-reality

 

[VRdommy]

U should look at all the companies out there branding with XR.

That's fine. My XR names are very generic and unbrandable because of that.
(remember googles atempt to TM glass... to generic)
Predicting how they will brand is not a easy task for a field that has yet to define itself entirely. Pot luck.
I can see how those that fully intend to do many realities would do such a thing though.
But at this point we are just seeing VR take root and MR may be where VR was 3-5 years ago (think software development). But from a head start I guess, from VR.
Not willing to hold 100+ XR names while this sorts out. I played better hunches in areas that are clear to me.
Bless all you who can do that, it just was not in the cards for me.

 

[Kingslayer]

Anyone else looking forward to Playstation VR2 (PS5)? Think it's one I'm going to buy.

This could be the headset to boost VR (hopefully).

 

[cordoba]

Anyone else looking forward to Playstation VR2 (PS5)? Think it's one I'm going to buy.

This could be the headset to boost VR (hopefully).

Yes, it's exciting and should give the market a boost. From what I've read Sony only expect to sell 2 million in its first year, which is small compared to the 15 or more million Quest headsets sold. Looks like Black Friday was good for headset sales : https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 5-y&geo=US&q=vr headset

Here's a word of caution though, from a writer who claims that the market for VR headsets could already be saturated. I would dismiss it if it weren't for the fact that he is a leading writer on XR tech : https://www.forbes.com/sites/charli...-week-in-xr-is-this-a-perilous-moment-for-vr/

 

[Elad n]

https://9to5mac.com/2022/12/01/bloo...ed-reality-headset-will-run-on-xros-platform/

 

[Kingslayer]

Yes, it's exciting and should give the market a boost. From what I've read Sony only expect to sell 2 million in its first year, which is small compared to the 15 or more million Quest headsets sold. Looks like Black Friday was good for headset sales : https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 5-y&geo=US&q=vr headset

Here's a word of caution though, from a writer who claims that the market for VR headsets could already be saturated. I would dismiss it if it weren't for the fact that he is a leading writer on XR tech : https://www.forbes.com/sites/charli...-week-in-xr-is-this-a-perilous-moment-for-vr/

Sony's sales (Playstation) usually surpass expectations.

I've not tried VR since GearVR (i've been waiting for it to improve), i was tempted to buy MetaQuest2 but think i'll hang on for this headset, looking forward to seeing how much VR has progressed.

 

[xr reality]

https://9to5mac.com/2022/12/01/bloo...ed-reality-headset-will-run-on-xros-platform/

Really cool mate

 

[VRdommy]

https://9to5mac.com/2022/12/01/bloo...ed-reality-headset-will-run-on-xros-platform/

I might not get to excited about that one just yet.
For one it's a report from a third party that states a shell company of a shell company is reg'ing the TM's WW.
While still not impossible, It is more likely Qualcomm is doing that since they have plenty of established XR TM's as it is. And they are due to present in the spring as well with a VR/AR device.
So, I'm not saying it is not so, but from my view, it don't look like Apple, but Qualcomm with XROS.

edit:
Since we know it's going to be Apple Reality, I might suggest AROS ?
Seems logical anyway.
They are not about to let others get close to their marks. Look at their history.
If Apple were to use XR in a TM of theirs, it would be in a court fight with Qualcomm .
It was one of the points of argument I brought forward 3 years ago or better on XR and the TM's.

 

[mattG]

edit:
Since we know it's going to be Apple Reality, I might suggest AROS ?
Seems logical anyway.
They are not about to let others get close to their marks. Look at their history.
If Apple were to use XR in a TM of theirs, it would be in a court fight with Qualcomm .

If Apple’s plans were limited exclusively to AR, I agree, this would be a great choice. But based on these recent findings, it sounds like they’re designing an XR platform that does it all.

 

[VRdommy]

Anyone else looking forward to Playstation VR2 (PS5)? Think it's one I'm going to buy.

This could be the headset to boost VR (hopefully).

Good to see ya still around and active again. Stick around, curious how the PSVR2 does in your eyes.

 

[VRdommy]

If Apple’s plans were limited exclusively to AR, I agree, this would be a great choice. But based on these recent findings, it sounds like they’re designing an XR platform that does it all.

It's not what it does, it's what they call it.
AR = Apple Reality
A rumor from 4 months ago said that it was going to be 'Reality OS' / ROS
But I just don't think they can let it slip so generic is why I suggest AROS.

https://www.theverge.com/22925038/apple-realityos-augmented-reality-headset-operating-system-rumors

 

[mattG]

It's not what it does, it's what they call it.
AR = Apple Reality
A rumor from 4 months ago said that it was going to be 'Reality OS' / ROS

For sure. I get that. But I’m not sure the average consumer would when you have an acronym that has two logical meanings in this case. I’m certainly not a branding expert, but it would be reasonable for a person to assume that it’s a pure AR device based on the name AROS, even though the AR is only supposed to mean Apple Reality.

 

[VRdommy]

For sure. I get that. But I’m not sure the average consumer would when you have an acronym that has two logical meanings in this case. I’m certainly not a branding expert, but it would be reasonable for a person to assume that it’s a pure AR device based on the name AROS, even though the AR is only supposed to mean Apple Reality.

Whatever it is going to be for Apple, and I believe the original rumor that it's ROS,
It is highly unlikely it's going to contain XR in it is my point.

 

[Elad n]

As always, only time will tell.

 

[VRdommy]

What you might find interesting is what Qualcomm has to say along these lines.
For they hold all the essential TM's on XR, and likely XR2...
And they describe the experiences as VR & MR...

https://www.qualcomm.com/news/relea...-next-generation-of-mixed-and-virtual-reality

My past eperiance with stuff like this is that while Qualcomm holds the TM's, they licence use of the terms with those co's that use their tech. i.e. Meta Quest 1, 2 & 3 to come (and other co's). But they do not have to use it. They can create their own terms and likely for Qualcomm, they may make some specilized chips for some of them to do just that, based in the latest released platform. After all, who would want to compete with everyone at the same level. No edge. I believe HP was using them at one time. Most everyone with a MR device 'standalone' is using them. There are no other players for the chips right now. At least until Apple, who will have their own, made for them by their complete design by TSMC.

 

[xr reality]

What you might find interesting is what Qualcomm has to say along these lines.
For they hold all the essential TM's on XR, and likely XR2...
And they describe the experiences as VR & MR...

https://www.qualcomm.com/news/relea...-next-generation-of-mixed-and-virtual-reality

My past eperiance with stuff like this is that while Qualcomm holds the TM's, they licence use of the terms with those co's that use their tech. i.e. Meta Quest 1, 2 & 3 to come (and other co's). But they do not have to use it. They can create their own terms and likely for Qualcomm, they may make some specilized chips for some of them to do just that, based in the latest released platform. After all, who would want to compete with everyone at the same level. No edge. I believe HP was using them at one time. Most everyone with a MR device 'standalone' is using them. There are no other players for the chips right now. At least until Apple, who will have their own, made for them by their complete design by TSMC.

For me personally and imo i am happy with the growth of xr from 5 years ago . I see more and more movement in the term in relation to news and company adoption of the term . Personally none of us know 100% what will happen we can only guess with the limitted research and knowledge at the time . As stated i may have to one day drop the collection but happy to hodl and watch . Cheers mate for comments always well thought out and balanced

 

[VRdommy]

For me personally and imo i am happy with the growth of xr from 5 years ago . I see more and more movement in the term in relation to news and company adoption of the term . Personally none of us know 100% what will happen we can only guess with the limitted research and knowledge at the time . As stated i may have to one day drop the collection but happy to hodl and watch . Cheers mate for comments always well thought out and balanced

I can't say what will happen with the term XR, for it can have a number of meanings.
After all, I did invest in some as well. Just not a bunch.

I can only say at this point, Qualcomm holds most of the cards.
For them, XR is a technology platform. Not a reality as many were assuming years ago.
As stated above, I think the XROS is of their origin and will likely show by the end of the year if not by the end of Jan. Soon. In time with this latest snapdragon that leans heavily on MR. It will be delivered by or shortly into Q2.
As you will see the same with the latest Quest 3. This XR platform will need it's own OS.
Somehow, I do not see Qualcomm wanting to be a consumer Co, but this may be changing. They have been B2B.
Hey... they make chips and beat Intel out of the mobile market.

I'm looking at XROS is to XR for MR as Android is to phones.
It's harder for folks to develop stuff for it without a common interface that a OS can provide.

 

[Kingslayer]

Good to see ya still around and active again. Stick around, curious how the PSVR2 does in your eyes.

I still post on this forum, I’m just involved in other areas of domains a lot more now (have an interest in single word .com’s).

But still highly invested in immersive tech, check out these threads from time to time and still believe immersive tech is the future (whatever it goes on to be called).

 

[VRdommy]

A new Apple delay ? Question really may be how long.

https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/apples-arvr-headset-may-face-shipping-delay/

I'll bet this goes out to select dev's anyway.

 

[VRdommy]

Kinda thought this article was interesting...
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apples-vr-headset-might-biggest-143954024.html

There are a few things the author is leaping over.
Apple is not starting with a beta, but a finished polished product, (that may have a bug or two in it's OS?).
I doubt the space they create takes away all that much from Meta. It will create anew of it's own. Not that it will not have a impact. I just think the quality of this will be unmatched, i.e. no real competition for it... yet.

Meta's problems have more to do with the facebook platform has been past it's saturation point for a few years now. They are not gaining new users any more than they are loosing them.That hits advertising. Add that to it's want to buy out many existing VR/AR co's before others buy them and you create a lot of overhead for yourself.
It's the 'growth' factor that looks bad for stockholders and they can not mask it with merger and acquisition anymore. FTC is on their tail.

In any case, I thought it was interesting and wonder how many actually think that way.

The problem for names is the 3 expected to be largest players will have their own ecosystem and that limits the need for names. But I'm not sure how to count Steam in all of that. They have a lot of independent dev's sporting their programs there. Most have their own website. Some use a facebook page to interact with the consumer.

HTC seems to be playing it on both sides. They were at least attempting their own ecosystem/platform but also partner with Steam as well. Not sure how that works. No experience with it.
But you can see the issue as it rolls forward. Apple is not likely to generate a lot of names demand.
Folks with products inside of these ecosystems promote from within them.
Small dev's use facebook if they need it. One less thing to manage or pay someone to manage.

I'm quite sure Jan/Feb/Mar 2023 will be full of positive looking news. Nobody wants to reveal anything NEW ahead of the xmas season.

 

[VRdommy]

The latest Apple release rumor...
https://bgr.com/tech/apple-to-launch-ar-vr-headset-at-wwdc-2023-leaker-claims/

If you understand the possible implications, chew on this for a bit...
https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/12/10/two-mystery-macs-appear-in-steams-hardware-survey
These would no doubt be using M2 SOC's or hybrids of them.

DNJ 1/2 Dec22
MetaPeace.xyz $1500 (does not resolve to anything real yet)
Was listed in the aftermarket for $26k
I don't quite understand that one as it could have been hand reg'd with more than 100 sensible gTLD's.
But then again, I don't understand .xyz anyway. Just me I guess.

Quite a few surprises in names not in our niche this time. Still think much is going on in the NDA world.

 

[VRdommy]

John Carmac is leaving Meta...
But look at what he has to say... Interesting. I think I understand his issue with them at this point.
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022...after-a-decade-fighting-to-make-vr-a-reality/

I'll bet he is either going to work for Apple or likely on Apple content. Perhaps a new start-up !
His reference to CPU/GPU was in direct argument with Qualcomm SOC whereas Apple M2 just blows this away in the reasons he stated.
Just a point of conjecture on my part. I don't know anything you shouldn't.

 

[Constantin S]

John Carmac is leaving Meta...
But look at what he has to say... Interesting. I think I understand his issue with them at this point.
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022...after-a-decade-fighting-to-make-vr-a-reality/

I'll bet he is either going to work for Apple or likely on Apple content. Perhaps a new start-up !
His reference to CPU/GPU was in direct argument with Qualcomm SOC whereas Apple M2 just blows this away in the reasons he stated.
Just a point of conjecture on my part. I don't know anything you shouldn't.

I was about to say the same thing. I bet he's going to Apple, the timing is just too suspicious.

 

[VRdommy]

I was about to say the same thing. I bet he's going to Apple, the timing is just too suspicious.

I would have thought so except for the fact these type of co's normally have a clause in their contracts to keep them from working for their competitors for 1-3 years after separation.
It may or may not keep him from being a independent dev for Apple.
But we know that he is a dev at heart and based on what he said, it was a direct attack on the flaws of the snapdragon. But only by comparing it to the new Apple M2 SOC.

I know not a lot of us can't digest what special purpose instructions do in a cpu/gpu.
But know that for years Intel had added them in CPU's but they were nothing that anyone could use in the real world. Something Apple has changed in it's evolution of it's own designed SOC.
And these special purpose instructions are all about 3D/VR/AR.

With that in mind, anyone should be able to digest his statements for full understanding.
These new Apple chips are far more powerful for the purpose we will enjoy than anything ever produced and in a far and deep way. They rival the best Intel chips straight up and use much less power. Less battery consumption. That means lower heat and weight for a stand alone.

The Qualcomm snapdragon series was a successful effort to beat intel out of the mobile cpu soc market.
They began putting 'some' special instructions in the SOC as it related to VR from mobile.
This next series has a bit more with MR as a target.
This became the heart of stand alone models like Meta Quest. This has little compare to the Apple M2.
Meta seems set in stone in using them at least in the short term but there is little to no alternative to this outside of doing what Apple did and that basically puts them at a 5+ year disadvantage.

Carmac is no dummy. He sees the writing on the wall.
You just can't build a tank from a vw.

I think he will just be a independent dev of his own co building out stuff on the Apple platform.
It will likely be some of the best stuff we have seen but time will tell.
Getting in on the ground floor is always a good thing. With his experience, he should dominate.

You have to admit, this shows how things are about to change.

 

[cordoba]

I would have thought so except for the fact these type of co's normally have a clause in their contracts to keep them from working for their competitors for 1-3 years after separation.
It may or may not keep him from being a independent dev for Apple.
But we know that he is a dev at heart and based on what he said, it was a direct attack on the flaws of the snapdragon. But only by comparing it to the new Apple M2 SOC.

I know not a lot of us can't digest what special purpose instructions do in a cpu/gpu.
But know that for years Intel had added them in CPU's but they were nothing that anyone could use in the real world. Something Apple has changed in it's evolution of it's own designed SOC.
And these special purpose instructions are all about 3D/VR/AR.

With that in mind, anyone should be able to digest his statements for full understanding.
These new Apple chips are far more powerful for the purpose we will enjoy than anything ever produced and in a far and deep way. They rival the best Intel chips straight up and use much less power. Less battery consumption. That means lower heat and weight for a stand alone.

The Qualcomm snapdragon series was a successful effort to beat intel out of the mobile cpu soc market.
They began putting 'some' special instructions in the SOC as it related to VR from mobile.
This next series has a bit more with MR as a target.
This became the heart of stand alone models like Meta Quest. This has little compare to the Apple M2.
Meta seems set in stone in using them at least in the short term but there is little to no alternative to this outside of doing what Apple did and that basically puts them at a 5+ year disadvantage.

Carmac is no dummy. He sees the writing on the wall.
You just can't build a tank from a vw.

I think he will just be a independent dev of his own co building out stuff on the Apple platform.
It will likely be some of the best stuff we have seen but time will tell.
Getting in on the ground floor is always a good thing. With his experience, he should dominate.

You have to admit, this shows how things are about to change.

I think Carmac is devoting himself to an AI startup. The HTC headset is expected to be revealed at CES, which of course isn't far away.
Lets hope a lot of Quest 2's are bought over Xmas. I doubt if it will be like last year, but hopefully not a disaster either.

 

[VRdommy]

I think Carmac is devoting himself to an AI startup. The HTC headset is expected to be revealed at CES, which of course isn't far away.
Lets hope a lot of Quest 2's are bought over Xmas. I doubt if it will be like last year, but hopefully not a disaster either.

I am going to reach out into the eitherspace pretty far with my conjecture, so I have a lot of room to be wrong.
I think Carmac is likely limited in what he can do with Meta competitors for at least a year. The AI he is working on is likely (1) a good story to tell on his departure. and (2) actually a voice command system to be used 'in game'.
So he can continue to develop without releasing anything till his contract limiting him expires, which I think is about a year. And you can see where I am going with this.

While I am excited to see HTC's (or any) new product out there compete for our face, it too will be based on Qualcomm Snapdragon (2023). The difference is the size and weight of it. But no more real capability than the Quest3.
I think the snapdragon of 2024 is going to be a divergence from the past, since it is known how far above the Apple SOC is and why, they will have to split the snapdragon in two.
From the beginning it was a cellphone SOC and even though they have put a few special instructions in it for VR/AR, they will want to increase that 3 fold to compete with Apple. So, nobody with a cellphone is going to want to pay the extra for tech not used in the phone. Unless they can actually make a HMD that plugs into that phone. They are going to have to split it in two basically and let each have it's purpose and name.

But the big news for next year is basically the start of Mixed reality in a serious way.

This is all a positive thing. The ball will be rolling and the names should begin to flow as we see more and more developers jump onto this platform finally. Content is key. That is where most names will be going.