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discuss Help me not lose 2 domains .ca that i invest 1000 $

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Recived a verofocation from CIRCA for 4 domain names .CA , but only two of them are important for me because i invest in them aprox 1000 USD

CIRCA verification is neccessary to meet the criteria for registration of .CA


I need some one from Canada who have trust in me & viceversa to make a legal partnership that is recognize by Government of Canada

Legal partnership is neccessary to prove i am the right to own .CA & is not mandatory to be for undetermined period of time , i think is possible only to pass this issue , some one who knows the rules

very well .


From customer support recived this link's as guide

http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cipointernet-internetopic.nsf/eng/Home

http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cipointernet-internetopic.nsf/eng/h_wr00002.html


But because my english is poor in technical terms is very hard to me to understand what say on this pages


So who want to help me please send me a PM (special if you are a old member & have good reputation)


Kind regards,

Ovidiu


P.S. I speak with some people & say CIRCA make very very rare this type of verification & i guess some want to hurt me & want this two domains ( maybe a domainer ) that are important and make the compliant

say again i invest aprox 1000 USD & possible to be sell to a end buyer over 10000 USD ( even each )
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
For the moment i wait a answer from a member of domainer community
 
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Foreign businesses who have legal operations in Canada are more than welcome to .ca domains as far as I know.

The issue is foreigners who have no intention of building a business, and while not the case with legitimate "domainers", for the most part the concern is fraud, spam, phishing and preventing ligitimate Canadians and Canadian businesses from obtaining the best and most relevant names possible for their business.

Yes I know I've actually made the case against domainers in general .. lol .. but those are the rules and why they are in place. That's why it's better to stay within your country's ccTLD, to invest in ccTLD's that are known to want foreign "DOMAIN REVENUE ONLY" investment, or generic TLD's ngTLD's or .com, .net, .org, .etc ...

The difference with Canada and a few select other nations, is that any potential external domain revenue is completely irrelevant to our economy. If anything, one could argue that the lack of availability of domains due to foreign domainers actually would hurt our economy more then the minor revenue of a few hundred thousand domains.

That's the big difference with Canada and countries like Montenegro, Tuvalu, BIOT (.io), Anguilla, Columbia, etc .. for those countries, the actual domain registration income is significant to them (with regards to the size of their economy) .. and as such they welcome the revenue as a means to enrich their people. Where as the potential foreign revenue for Canada would represent about 1/1,000,000th of our economy. I think it's cool some countries can take advantage of domains to help enrich their people ... but at the end of the day I understand why each country would want to maintain sovereignty over their domain space .. particularly those like Canada where our digital economy is a huge and vital part of our economy.

The other factor is that for many of these other countries, their official language is not English ... whereas domainers still tend to buy English domains .. so in reality, they aren't taking anything away from local businesses.

Even when it comes to domaining with .ca domains, at least (in theory) by only allowing Canadian domainers to buy .ca domains, the domaining revenue stays in Canada and the profits taxed by the Canadian Government.


All that said .. it really sucks @Backorder-ing.com stands to lose $1000! More than the domains, I really hope he find a way to at least get his money back.

Person who make this complain against me not want domains for is business , want for his purpose - to sell and make big money & probably is a domainer as is a very high possibility not be a Canadian citizen :xf.wink: mister @Ategy.com , but i thank you , you share to us from your experince
 
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Foreign businesses who have legal operations in Canada are more than welcome to .ca domains as far as I know.

The issue is foreigners who have no intention of building a business, and while not the case with legitimate "domainers", for the most part the concern is fraud, spam, phishing and preventing ligitimate Canadians and Canadian businesses from obtaining the best and most relevant names possible for their business.

Yes I know I've actually made the case against domainers in general .. lol .. but those are the rules and why they are in place. That's why it's better to stay within your country's ccTLD, to invest in ccTLD's that are known to want foreign "DOMAIN REVENUE ONLY" investment, or generic TLD's ngTLD's or .com, .net, .org, .etc ...

The difference with Canada and a few select other nations, is that any potential external domain revenue is completely irrelevant to our economy. If anything, one could argue that the lack of availability of domains due to foreign domainers actually would hurt our economy more then the minor revenue of a few hundred thousand domains.

That's the big difference with Canada and countries like Montenegro, Tuvalu, BIOT (.io), Anguilla, Columbia, etc .. for those countries, the actual domain registration income is significant to them (with regards to the size of their economy) .. and as such they welcome the revenue as a means to enrich their people. Where as the potential foreign revenue for Canada would represent about 1/1,000,000th of our economy. I think it's cool some countries can take advantage of domains to help enrich their people ... but at the end of the day I understand why each country would want to maintain sovereignty over their domain space .. particularly those like Canada where our digital economy is a huge and vital part of our economy.

The other factor is that for many of these other countries, their official language is not English ... whereas domainers still tend to buy English domains .. so in reality, they aren't taking anything away from local businesses.

Even when it comes to domaining with .ca domains, at least (in theory) by only allowing Canadian domainers to buy .ca domains, the domaining revenue stays in Canada and the profits taxed by the Canadian Government.


All that said .. it really sucks @Backorder-ing.com stands to lose $1000! More than the domains, I really hope he find a way to at least get his money back.
You would be surprised to learn that many domainers and companies are actually translating the domains and registering them. I have seen this in country extensions and as well as even .com. So the game is a lot unfair and bigger than how .CA is doing things. Even if we take your argument that most of those countries dont speak English and thus no one is taking their names, dont we deserve to have English domains with our country extension? Or are we just confined to our local language only? See how it is all linked? The OP is clearly suspecting that someone is actually after his domains and I asked you earlier, what happens if the OP fails to show justifiable and convincing reason of why he should retain the ownership of the two domains? Are they locked forever? Do they drop get auctioned?
 
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I believe they just eventually expire and dropped
 
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You would be surprised to learn that many domainers and companies are actually translating the domains and registering them. I have seen this in country extensions and as well as even .com.

There definitely might be some who register names in native languages, but I'm pretty sure that's the minority .. particularly with the smaller economies where there would be very little demand/value in the native language domains (unlike Germany's ,de for example)

So the game is a lot unfair and bigger than how .CA is doing things. Even if we take your argument that most of those countries dont speak English and thus no one is taking their names, dont we deserve to have English domains with our country extension? Or are we just confined to our local language only? See how it is all linked?

It has nothing to do with who deserves what .. it has to do with what your country CHOOSES to do with their sovereign TLD. What I was simply saying is that the impact of foreigners acquiring domains (mostly English) does not have the same impact on the local economy of smaller and non-English economies as English-speaking larger economies .. and because of that, I could understand why some countries CHOOSE to not have the same restrictive rules or to not enforce their rules. At the end of the day it is fair for all countries because they are all EQUALLY allowed to CHOOSE what they want to do with their own ccTLDs.

The OP is clearly suspecting that someone is actually after his domains and I asked you earlier, what happens if the OP fails to show justifiable and convincing reason of why he should retain the ownership of the two domains? Are they locked forever? Do they drop get auctioned?

That is a very different matter .. I was discussing the rules and WHY they were there. I still think it sucks for @Backorder-ing.com in terms of what happened to him. Even if I'm a Canadian, I don't invest in nor follow .ca domains, so I didn't even know there was any serious checking or enforcement.

Again though .. unfortunately that's a risk when you don't play by the rules. I know with the couple .ca's I acquired for personal reasons via GoDaddy that the registration process was not the same thing as .com. I indeed had to click or enter something to indicate that I am Canadian.

Where I think @Backorder-ing.com might have some sort of claim, is against the aftermarket seller of the domains (the person who sold the domains to him), who possibly in theory was required to check if @Backorder-ing.com was Canadian before selling it to him ... or the @Backorder-ing.com's registrar who should have made sure @Backorder-ing.com was notified of, and met the Canadian requirements before allowing the transfer of ownership.


Again .. despite the fact @Backorder-ing.com did not play by the rules, and actually broke Canadian laws ... I still feel bad for him. If there were a simple solution I'd even gladly help a fellow domainer, but @Backorder-ing.com wants to open partnership agreements and paperwork, plus based on what others have said, it looks like it's too late anyways!

I sincerely wish him luck .. but he took a risk by breaking the rules .. that was his choice .. and unfortunately he got caught breaking the rules .. so I'm not sure what more can be done for him at tihs point? :(
 
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@Ategy.com ' Where I think @Backorder-ing.com might have some sort of claim, is against the aftermarket seller of the domains (the person who sold the domains to him), who possibly in theory was required to check if @Backorder-ing.com was Canadian before selling it to him..'
I don't say (not even claim) the previous owner doing this to me! Must clarify this !Because acquire was made here trough NP & i don't suspect this person (have good reputation)

i say that only a domainer that knows this kind of things , how to make a complain , value of domains , fact's that i own aprox. 50% from market with this 'word' in many extensions etc
.. a company from Canada and presume want the domain for his business they not doing this

Personal if you ask me possible to know who his ( possible but not mandatory , to be a NP member indeed , because many of them watching me ) but without eveidence is pointless so looking for other solutions , they are a lot depend who want to help me

This organisation CIRA have stupid rule's & can be avoid (we are in 2020) that not protect businesses of Canadian people , if will be so maybe 75% of .ca domains should have complain , it's about who can make big money , or who can not
 
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I don't say (not even claim) the previous owner doing this to me! Must clarify this !Because acquire was made here trough NP & i don't suspect this person (have good reputation)

I'm not saying he or she made the complaint to CIRA, but what I'm saying is that it's possible in CIRA rules that they had to be sure you had the legal ability to own the domain before selling/transferring to you?
Was there an notification of .ca requirements in the sales/auction thread? I'm not sure if that's a rule or not at NamePros, but maybe it should be?

AGAIN though .. to be clear .. I'm only saying it's a possibility .. I don't know the rules for sure. I don't invest in .ca domain names, and am not an expert in CIRA rules.

As for the rest of your post .. unfortunately I didn't really understand it all. It's clear that unfortunately you do not have a strong command of English.

Let's be clear that even if your portfolio is 100% related to these domains, the Canadian rules are VERY clear (to English and French speakers) that you are NOT allowed to register a .ca domain if you are not Canadian or do not have business in Canada.

It sucks that you got caught .. I feel sorry for you :( .. but you have no reason to complain .. you should have known the rules when you transferred the domain. Your complaint should be with the person who sold they to you (only if they didn't warn you about the rules) or your registrar if they didn't warn you about .ca requirements before your transfer.

If I knew more about how to dropcatch .ca domains I'd offer to try to grab them and hold them for you (given that on paper I'd be the official owner and you'd have to trust me for anything beyond that). But I've never dropcaught a .ca domain and don't even know the process, so I'm probably not the best choice for you if you absolutely must have those domains.

Either way .. good luck .. hopefully at least you can get your money back.
 
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I'm not saying he or she made the complaint to CIRA, but what I'm saying is that it's possible in CIRA rules that they had to be sure you had the legal ability to own the domain before selling/transferring to you?
Was there an notification of .ca requirements in the sales/auction thread? I'm not sure if that's a rule or not at NamePros, but maybe it should be?

AGAIN though .. to be clear .. I'm only saying it's a possibility .. I don't know the rules for sure. I don't invest in .ca domain names, and am not an expert in CIRA rules.

As for the rest of your post .. unfortunately I didn't really understand it all. It's clear that unfortunately you do not have a strong command of English.

Let's be clear that even if your portfolio is 100% related to these domains, the Canadian rules are VERY clear (to English and French speakers) that you are NOT allowed to register a .ca domain if you are not Canadian or do not have business in Canada.

It sucks that you got caught .. I feel sorry for you :( .. but you have no reason to complain .. you should have known the rules when you transferred the domain. Your complaint should be with the person who sold they to you (only if they didn't warn you about the rules) or your registrar if they didn't warn you about .ca requirements before your transfer.

If I knew more about how to dropcatch .ca domains I'd offer to try to grab them and hold them for you (given that on paper I'd be the official owner and you'd have to trust me for anything beyond that). But I've never dropcaught a .ca domain and don't even know the process, so I'm probably not the best choice for you if you absolutely must have those domains.

Either way .. good luck .. hopefully at least you can get your money back.

Understand your point @Ategy.com but in this case not apply. Why? Because if not you , other have .ca domains & they are not canadian citizen or business/partnership in Canada . This is the case about some one hurt me by make a complain to make him more money . You if you will lose 1000 $ or more what do? Smile?!

About my english , admint, not perfect .
Have a nice day @Ategy.com

PS & about .US you or other mention about rules of reg. .US , yeh Nexus/Neustar possible to send compliance to registrant , personal recived & solved ( it's enough to send them a bill that prove you have business/sold a domain with a citizen from USA ) , but they not block your domain names (think no other entity that manage ccTLD from other country's ) that mean they respect your property .
CIRA don't respect this (your property) so why i say basic you are not the owner of .CA
CIRA have more ' horns' then other
 
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Understand your point @Ategy.com but in this case not apply. Why? Because if not you , other have .ca domains & they are not canadian citizen or business/partnership in Canada . This is the case about some one hurt me by make a complain to make him more money . You if you will lose 1000 $ or more what do? Smile?!

About my english , admint, not perfect .
Have a nice day @Ategy.com

PS & about .US you or other mention about rules of reg. .US , yeh Nexus/Neustar possible to send compliance to registrant , personal recived & solved ( it's enough to send them a bill that prove you have business/sold a domain with a citizen from USA ) , but they not block your domain names (think no other entity that manage ccTLD from other country's ) that mean they respect your property .
CIRA don't respect this (your property) so why i say basic you are not the owner of .CA
CIRA have more ' horns' then other
You clicked a waiver when you registered your .ca domain, CIRA is one of the more proactive enforcement Registries in protecting their extension. Sure they could make a lot more money opening it up to residents of California or such, but if you know anything about their board they are technology, and business people, they choose to keep it localized, rather than global to protect the brand identity of their Country.

.ca extension you can finding 3L.ca to hand reg, it’s a tough sell, you need to understand this marketplace, Just because you own a single word .ca, doesn’t mean it will yield tens of thousands. One prominent domainer took a beating trying to game the .ca market, only to drop a majority of their portfolio.

If you own any kind of business, I would suggest you find an incorporation lawyer, and setup some kind of localized office within that region out of their office, that may help you retain the name to offload it, otherwise they are going to lock it down until it expires.
 
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@wwwweb 'otherwise they are going to lock it down until it expires.' ?
You refer as a advice for other's in future or refer for my problem?

They allready lock from start that is another problem , another abusive thing made by CIRA - not recived a notice or something like that - they are lock it from start ...is like to be arrested without warranty or motiv
 
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@wwwweb
They allready lock from start that is another problem , another abusive thing made by CIRA - not recived a notice or something like that - they are lock it from start ...is like to be arrested without warranty or motiv

Not at all, I'm sorry about your loss but it is you that broke the rules.

To register a .ca you have to tick the checkbox that EXPLICITLY tells you the rules. It is all there in writing and CIRA is simply following those rules.

You cannot go to a different country, rent a car and then say you did not know the rules. You have to abide by the rules of every country.

In this case CIRA will be carefully watching and trust me when I say they know all the tricks by now. You need legitimate documentation to get out of this situation and if that is not provided the domains will simply get released back into the system.

Calling CIRA by any other name but what it is definitely unjust, they are simply providing a service meant for Canadians and Canadian companies.

The shoe here is on the other foot, it is you that is taking away 4 domains from legitimate Canadian businesses or private individuals. It is you that has absolutely no right to these domains and no right to cry about it.

I am sorry for your loss but those are the facts.
 
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Not at all, I'm sorry about your loss but it is you that broke the rules.

To register a .ca you have to tick the checkbox that EXPLICITLY tells you the rules. It is all there in writing and CIRA is simply following those rules.

You cannot go to a different country, rent a car and then say you did not know the rules. You have to abide by the rules of every country.

In this case CIRA will be carefully watching and trust me when I say they know all the tricks by now. You need legitimate documentation to get out of this situation and if that is not provided the domains will simply get released back into the system.

Calling CIRA by any other name but what it is definitely unjust, they are simply providing a service meant for Canadians and Canadian companies.

The shoe here is on the other foot, it is you that is taking away 4 domains from legitimate Canadian businesses or private individuals. It is you that has absolutely no right to these domains and no right to cry about it.

I am sorry for your loss but those are the facts.

Let's see in the future that , they find my other .ca i own . I don't think so!
But thanks again @MapleDots thanks for support & wish you best luck , with this answer i think you don't want to help me as i write to you on a convo on other forum

All the best to all!
 
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@wwwweb 'otherwise they are going to lock it down until it expires.' ?
You refer as a advice for other's in future or refer for my problem?

They allready lock from start that is another problem , another abusive thing made by CIRA - not recived a notice or something like that - they are lock it from start ...is like to be arrested without warranty or motiv
They locked the domain down, to protect it from being moved. They are trying to verify your data, based on the their registration requirements which you agreed to when you took the domain into your account.

Kind of like going thru customs, and being asked for your passport, if you don’t have one you are going to be detained until you can provide proof of who you are. They have detained your domain, and asked you for verification based on their guidelines, you yourself know you can’t provide this information to their satisfaction, hence the reason for this thread.

This is not about profit for .ca, if they wanted to make more money they would let thousands of single words they hold for grandfathered accounts, and city regions go up for auction, but that is not their mandate.

Their mandate is not for profit, but to build a national online identity for people, and businesses that operate within their extension. They are protecting their extension, which is their right. Clearly others who own .ca, and should not, should take notice. They have been verifying for a long time, and it has always been a risk to register one without a legal office within that region.
 
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Let's see in the future that , they find my other .ca i own . I don't think so!
But thanks again @MapleDots thanks for support & wish you best luck , with this answer i think you don't want to help me as i write to you on a convo on other forum

All the best to all!
the legal term of what you are asking
for is fraudulent conveyance.

Given Maples investment in the space, it would put a huge target on his back by doing so, a big reason why most people here really can’t help you. I suggest you find a lawyer in the region, who might be able to setup an agreement for you. There is no real quick fix for this.
 
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the legal term of what you are asking
for is fraudulent conveyance.

Given Maples investment in the space, it would put a huge target on his back by doing so, a big reason why most people here really can’t help you. I suggest you find a lawyer in the region, who might be able to setup an agreement for you. There is no real quick fix for this.

Thank you so much for that @wwwweb

I have been trying to tell that to @Backorder-ing.com
He has asked me to provide passport and other legal documents. I basically told him I own over a thousand domains and I cannot put my business into jeopardy.

Now what @Backorder-ing.com does not know is that like a lot of domainers I am actually a CIRA member. I would help him if I could but I already mentioned to him that it is similar to fraud.

I genuinely do not know how to help him without committing perjury. If I could think of a way around it I would but in this case I think he should contact cira and throw himself at their mercy and ask if he can transfer the domain to a canadian. Being up front is sometimes the best policy and might just work. Now if he gets the OK for that I will gladly accept his domains into my account and hold them for him. I will even pay his renewal charges and he can pay me back when he sells them. That is the extend of what I can offer.

With that, I wish him lots of luck.

PS. As far as risk goes, @Backorder-ing.com there is none, I am a man of my word and if I say the domains will remain yours you can take that to the bank. I have bought tens of thousands of dollars in domains from namepros members with verbal handshakes.
 
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Thank you so much for that @wwwweb

I have been trying to tell that to @Backorder-ing.com
He has asked me to provide passport and other legal documents. I basically told him I own over a thousand domains and I cannot put my business into jeopardy.

Now what @Backorder-ing.com does not know is that like a lot of domainers I am actually a CIRA member. I would help him if I could but I already mentioned to him that it is similar to fraud.

I genuinely do not know how to help him without committing perjury. If I could think of a way around it I would but in this case I think he should contact cira and throw himself at their mercy and ask if he can transfer the domain to a canadian. Being up front is sometimes the best policy and might just work. Now if he gets the OK for that I will gladly accept his domains into my account and hold them for him. I will even pay his renewal charges and he can pay me back when he sells them. That is the extend of what I can offer.

With that, I wish him lots of luck.

PS. As far as risk goes, @Backorder-ing.com there is none, I am a man of my word and if I say the domains will remain yours you can take that to the bank. I have bought tens of thousands of dollars in domains from namepros members with verbal handshakes.

One of the reason i thank you for support!
And also say to you few options so i will be glad if you will answer to that convo on other forum

 
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Lesson learned, before buying ccTLD, always check the rules of the country. And always tell your buyer about existing restriction, to avoid damage of your reputation.
 
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I’d view doing something like this on the order of transferring assets to skirt a creditor after a judgement is entered. Or for example transferring assets out of a bankruptcy to keep assets away from creditors. Which is illegal. Do people do this? Yes, all the time but if you get caught your butt could land in jail.

It does sound like the OP would have to cough up some consideration to whoever helps him here so I suppose he could claim that the transfer/partnership was for value and not just a sham but it would still be suspect.

If he gave the domains for free to someone just to hold for him for no consideration all the time being the actual owner that would be as illegal as the fraudulent conveyances mentioned above. Think, mob owned casinos run by a squeaky clean front man.
 
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If he gave the domains for free to someone just to hold for him for no consideration all the time being the actual owner that would be as illegal as the fraudulent conveyances mentioned above. Think, mob owned casinos run by a squeaky clean front man.

^ this. As far as I know they don't allow trustee service either. It would be a way to circumvent the rules, nonetheless not allowed.
 
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Why? I see people from other countries, including Canadians, having premium names of my country even though it is not allowed and they dont live there. I believe no limit and it should be open game. Tell me believe, dont you have a domain with an extension that you are not supposed to have? That is why they have the companies that sign instead of the registrant.
Respectfully you need to understand the mandate of .ca, it’s not about selling a million registrations, and renewals to anyone willing to pay. They are the gatekeeper of creating trusted online URL’s for Canadians, and businesses that operate in that region. Simple as that, I wouldn’t take it in a form meaning to pick at anyone from any other Country, they are just staying true to their mandate, unlike others who kind of look the other way in a trade off for registrations.

I would recommend anyone who disagrees with their policy, to actually read their terms of registration, in which they clearly set out their registration terms. Also you have to click to accept the terms before you can even accept a domain into your account.
 
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Yeah...you agreed to the terms/contract. However, under Canadian contract law you need competency/capacity which arguably is not present here--resulting in a monetary loss which also undermines the original consideration ($1,000 for a domain which you understood would have no restrictions).
That may be grounds for a 'failure of consideration' and discharge by frustration.

Now that's a considerable amount of money which you never intended to get trapped into a precarious situation, let alone seized. I would say you have a shot at a refund--especially if lawyers involved but then your money goes to fees + potentially being barred from registrar. Not a lot of good options.

Best you can hope for is a slap on the wrist, "don't do it again""-type situation.
 
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If he bought them here for 1k and they were pushed to his account, there would be no box to check.
I would not sell a .ca to a non canadian and would surely disclose the rules.
Sounds like member here didnt fulfill their duties by disclosing the requirements.

Hard to make sense with unknowledgeable comments and your poor grammar.
Sorry looks like someone hosed you

You pm me’d me and say one was hand reg and one wS aftermarket. I will look again at previous posts but i thought you said you bought them here.
 
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How was he led to believe that the domains were not restricted to Canadian national buyers? In fact he appears to state the opposite - that the seller was a good person and did not mislead him.
 
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Personally I think all ccTLD's should be run in a similar fashion. What good is ccTLD when people from other countries can register them. I think CIRA is doing it right, they are holding true to what ccTLD's were meant to be. A ccTLD should instill confidence that you are doing commerce in the country of origin.
 
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