discuss Handshake domains

[Synozeer]

There's been talk about .eth and .crypto, but I haven't seen many posts on here about Handshake.

Handshake is a naming protocol that's backwards compatible with the existing DNS system. It does not replace the DNS protocol, but instead expands the root zone file where TLD ownership information is stored by adding a distributed and decentralized blockchain-based system that no one controls and anyone can use. This allows for a root zone that is uncensorable, permissionless, and free of gatekeepers like ICANN.

https://learn.namebase.io/about-handshake/about-handshake

This is what I believe the next step in domains will potentially be. Instead of just registering domains under new TLDs, you actually own the TLD and can sell subdomains (my.wallet/, use your TLD as a web address (synozeer/), and also use your TLD as a username on sites that allow it.

A few domain registrars already allow registrations under various Handshake TLDs, and you can bid on new TLDs along with buy/sell from the marketplace at https://namebase.io. Namecheap just bought the p/ TLD for $230,000 and they said they are looking to support Handshake. Brave browser should also be releasing an update soon that will allow for Handshake domains to be accessed using their browser.

It's really interesting technology and I can see it being adopted by a lot of big companies in the future. Of course, it's all speculative, but people have been making good money buying/selling TLDs and subdomains.

The best two TLDs I own in my opinion are .visit and .articles. Lots of end user uses (hawaii.visit/, seo.articles/, etc.) but there are some killer ones out there. The owner of .c/ has already sold several hundred domains under his TLD and some others like xr/ and defi/ are doing well.

 

[bmugford]

The issue is native support.

You can have any "domain" you want if you get people to use special software, extensions, or nameservers.

I personally don't anticipate a lot of consumer demand. It is like trying to re-invent the wheel for no major reason.

Brad

 

[Samer]

Too complicated.

“im out.”

“Invest in what you understand.”

Samer

 

[bmugford]

Also, you never actually "own" these. Just like with regular domains there are renewal fees.

https://handshake.org/faq/

How long are my names good for?

Handshake names are registered for two years at a time. Names can be renewed biannually by paying a standard network fee. There are no social or technical guarantees with the renewability or ownership, this is an experimental system, please read the code to see details of how it currently works.

Who gets the renewal fee?

Renewals for names are bi-annual and cost a standard network fee. Currently, miners will receive the transaction fee as part of their block reward.

 

[Synozeer]

These aren’t decentralized because you still need a third party to hold the asset. I bought hns when it was .06 I believe, so it was cheap to bid and acquire a few. Today, hns is .75 and there’s more eyes on these. Not worth it IMO.

You can hold them in a wallet where you own the private keys. And within the wallet you can buy/sell and configure your names.

https://github.com/kyokan/bob-wallet

Also, you never actually "own" these. Just like with regular domains there are renewal fees.

The fee is a "keep alive" fee. It's there so that if someone loses their private keys, dies, or never accesses those names again, the names are released back into the wild. Otherwise over time you'd lose complete access to various TLD's forever when the above happens. The fee is only .01-.02 and the pros of having this system in place far outweigh any negatives IMO.

As easy as native support is now included in some browsers, the top browser makers may be required to effectively block handshake sites in the future. This can be done in the same way browsers now deal with HSTS preload lists. The claim that a website cannot be shut down may be technically correct, but any technology that becomes somewhat popular and widely used will be influenced by governments at some point.

This is entirely a possibility. However, there will always be browsers that will still allow access to Handshake sites. But if that were to happen, it would certainly not be a good thing. I could see a situation like that making Handshake more into an alternate internet/DNS.

 

[bmugford]

It's in the early days and obviously isn't usable by most people at the moment unless they have the technical know how. But it's the same way with .eth and .crypto domains - most people cannot access those domains for the same reasons. But while those are just new domain extensions and both are centralized, Handshake is a possible future domain naming system that can work alongside the current DNS system and is decentralized, meaning no one can make you take down your site which is pretty relevant these days with all the Twitter/Facebook bans. People have set up fully decentralized websites using Handshake and other decentralized hosting services.

Most people are buying .eth and .crypto for speculation, resale, and see it as a form of NFT. The same can be said for Handshake, except there is a lot more upside and potential with Handshake. There's also the fact the Handshake economy works off a crypto, HNS, which also have investment possibilities (it's up 700% from January to now). People also didn't believe in bitcoin and crypto in general and look where that is now.

Some people act like "decentralized" is some miracle. The vast majority of people just want stuff to easily work without a bunch of hassle or effort.

Also, is this really "decentralized" if there is a Handshake token? Who controls the supply?

It reminds me of something like Ripple. How is that decentralized?

Throw in trendy words like crypto, blockchain, nft, etc.

At some point there needs to be a real world case use that makes people's lives better.

I just don't see the actual use case for these personally. The domain system works fine, as is, for almost everyone.

New extensions, in large part, failed because of lack of real world demand. Those worked the same way as existing domains.

This change would require a different format, on top of special software, extensions, or settings.

And as far as .crypto goes, ICANN will just end up delegating the actual extension, on the actual root servers, at some point that will be accessible in a normal browser.

It is nothing new. ICANN did the exact same thing before - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New.net

Brad

 

[Synozeer]

The issue is native support.

You can have any "domain" you want if you get people to use special software, extensions, or nameservers.

I personally don't anticipate a lot of consumer demand. It is like trying to re-invent the wheel for no major reason.

Brad

It's in the early days and obviously isn't usable by most people at the moment unless they have the technical know how. But it's the same way with .eth and .crypto domains - most people cannot access those domains for the same reasons. But while those are just new domain extensions and both are centralized, Handshake is a possible future domain naming system that can work alongside the current DNS system and is decentralized, meaning no one can make you take down your site which is pretty relevant these days with all the Twitter/Facebook bans. People have set up fully decentralized websites using Handshake and other decentralized hosting services.

Most people are buying .eth and .crypto for speculation, resale, and see it as a form of NFT. The same can be said for Handshake, except there is a lot more upside and potential with Handshake. There's also the fact the Handshake economy works off a crypto, HNS, which also have investment possibilities (it's up 700% from January to now). People also didn't believe in bitcoin and crypto in general and look where that is now.

 

[newdawndomains]

I think a decentralized namespace protocol like Handshake is exactly what we need to get away from the centrally-controlled ICANN mafia. I know it's very new and the older stalwarts like what they got going with legacy TLDs but this really is the future. Handshake isn't the only blockchain that has decentralized TLDs being offered, but it is the largest and fast-growing one. I have around 300 TLDs myself and made 20x more money selling TLDs than I ever did selling ICANN-controlled domain names...and now I have started selling domain names under one of my TLDs, .i1, and plan to begin domain names under several country TLDs I was fortunate enough to win at auction.

Even if you aren't a big believer in it, a wise person would at least jump in and view it as a speculative investment worth at least getting your hat in the ring.

 

[jamesau]

1. Who owns the encryption / wallet keys if I use namebase.io? Is BobWallet the only option if I want to own the keys?

Namebase own everything if you buy on Namebase. Bobwallet is my preferred GUI option, or you can install the HNS wallet itself (HSD)

2. Is WHNS a namebase.io thing or could I get WHNS via BobWallet?

If you go via WHNS you may have to KYC to redeem them into HNS at Namebase. There are more bridged tokens expected but none yet. Best to swap ETH > HNS.

3. Are there frontrunning issues? The auction system is probably the worst design possible for someone that wants to register a brand name. I looked through recent auctions and there are a lot of surnames that have 3 or 4 bids where they go .40 HNS, .41 HNS, 5 HNS (or similar). It looks like automation to me.

I actually think it's a perfect design to extract the maximum value for the network. It ensures good domains sell at a fair price.

4. The docs say the first bid triggers a 5 day auction followed by a 10 day reveal period, but one of the finished auctions I looked at says bids were placed on Jan. 7 and Jan. 14 even though the auction didn't start until Jan. 24. I don't understand what's going on there. Can someone explain it to me?

Looks like a front end problem with Namebase. You can see the auction transactions here: https://e.hnsfans.com/name/pichlmaier

5. Do I have to worry about bid sniping? Almost every finished auction I looked at has a bid on the last day. Is there a way to see which block those bids were included in to gauge the likelihood of it being a bot?

Yes sniping happens. If you value the domain you should prepare to bid thousands of HNS. Remember you only pay the second highest bid (not your highest bid). If you bid 2000 HNS the odds of you paying even 100 HNS are almost nil. I wouldn't think there are many widely desirable names unclaimed.

6. What's the point of people making $0 bids like this? If the HNS gets burned like the docs say I don't understand who benefits from trying to inflate the price like that.

The blinds are refundable if claimed in the 10 day window. It's just an interesting mechanism to play around with but I would ignore blinds if you only want the one name. Just bid your absolute max as a bid.

 

[jamesau]

One more thing. You have recommended to buy some TLDs at namebase. Does it mean that investors should buy extensions like .c , .xr , etc as a whole. After buying these kind of TLDs he/she will be the sole owner of them and can then sell subdomains on them as gatewaY.io is doing for .c etc.

Yes that's correct. Once you own the Handshake name like bary you can sell unlimited subdomains like nft.bary

Any rough idea for how much gateway got .c tld for from namebase ??

See https://www.namebase.io/domains/c

Because this is all on chain it could be incredible for domain clarity. Imagine how much more data we would have as investors if all sales were public.

Is there any platform in existence where we can list .c and other web3 extension domains for sale.
Gateway.io doesn't seem to allow listing domains for sale which were bought via their platform.
Thanks for all the information.

You can sell them through Namebase or if you have a hyper-premium name like .c I'm sure you can talk with Gateway directly.

Also Do we need to renew these TLDs as well once bought from namebase. I see that after buying .c subdomains from gateway , it's renewal is around 20 usd per annum.

No renewal as you currently know it. Just a blockchain transaction (currently not even $0.01) every 2 years to prove the name is active to ensure names are not burned like all those Bitcoins sent to the dump on old HDDs.

The .c renewal is decided by the owner of the .c Handshake name.

 

[Big Mac]

This may be a game changer for anyone who has invested in Handshake domain names.

Impervious Creates A Privacy and Security-Focused Browser That Can Resolve Handshake TLDs Natively.

"ICANN, registries, registrars, DNS providers, web browsers - the gatekeepers to the internet no more. Introducing Beacon, a privacy and security-focused browser to replace certificate authorities with decentralized p2p naming systems, DNSSEC and DANE"

You can also visit https://impervious.com/beacon to download the browser to your iPhone. Android is coming soon. Possibly for desktop in the works, but we will have to wait and see.

Great first step. Congrats to Mike Carson and the Engineers at Impervious.

 

[Future Sensors]

As easy as native support is now included in some browsers, the top browser makers may be required to effectively block handshake sites in the future. This can be done in the same way browsers now deal with HSTS preload lists. The claim that a website cannot be shut down may be technically correct, but any technology that becomes somewhat popular and widely used will be influenced by governments at some point.

 

[Keith]

Some people act like "decentralized" is some miracle. The vast majority of people just want stuff to easily work without a bunch of hassle or effort.

Also, is this really "decentralized" if there is a Handshake token? Who controls the supply?

It reminds me of something like Ripple. How is that decentralized?

Throw in trendy words like crypto, blockchain, nft, etc.

At some point there needs to be a real world case use that makes people's lives better.

I just don't see the actual use case for these personally. The domain system works fine, as is, for almost everyone.

New extensions, in large part, failed because of lack of real world demand. Those worked the same way as existing domains.

This change would require a different format, on top of special software, extensions, or settings.

And as far as .crypto goes, ICANN will just end up delegating the actual extension, on the actual route servers, at some point that will be accessible in a normal browser.

It is nothing new. ICANN did the exact same thing before - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New.net

Brad

These aren’t decentralized because you still need a third party to hold the asset. I bought hns when it was .06 I believe, so it was cheap to bid and acquire a few. Today, hns is .75 and there’s more eyes on these. Not worth it IMO.

 

[Registry Services]

The issue is native support.

You can have any "domain" you want if you get people to use special software, extensions, or nameservers.

I personally don't anticipate a lot of consumer demand. It is like trying to re-invent the wheel for no major reason.

Brad

There are VPNs that let you opt into using Handshake, as your DNS servers can get automatically changed when you connect into a VPN, but these are issues that will be solved - its still very early days - e.g. it would be extremely trivial for any ISP to also offer an opt-in capability.

There are already over 700K TLDs, only a few ICANN TLDs are bigger than that, and the second-level market is quite active, despite being only really active for a few weeks, so there already is demand

Right now, there may be no obvious benefit, apart from having almost no restriction on what domain name you can register, but I think in time new uses for DNS will emerge that are currently not possible / practical.

 

[bmugford]

What is to stop anyone else from doing the same thing? If you can get someone to use your software, extension, or DNS you can have whatever domain you want.

Brad

 

[Coindoji]

There's been talk about .eth and .crypto, but I haven't seen many posts on here about Handshake.



This is what I believe the next step in domains will potentially be. Instead of just registering domains under new TLDs, you actually own the TLD and can sell subdomains (my.wallet/, use your TLD as a web address (synozeer/), and also use your TLD as a username on sites that allow it.

A few domain registrars already allow registrations under various Handshake TLDs, and you can bid on new TLDs along with buy/sell from the marketplace at https://namebase.io. Namecheap just bought the p/ TLD for $230,000 and they said they are looking to support Handshake. Brave browser should also be releasing an update soon that will allow for Handshake domains to be accessed using their browser.

It's really interesting technology and I can see it being adopted by a lot of big companies in the future. Of course, it's all speculative, but people have been making good money buying/selling TLDs and subdomains.

The best two TLDs I own in my opinion are .visit and .articles. Lots of end user uses (hawaii.visit/, seo.articles/, etc.) but there are some killer ones out there. The owner of .c/ has already sold several hundred domains under his TLD and some others like xr/ and defi/ are doing well.

you believe?
you are late to the party..

I 'believed' when posted this 14 months ago and no one cared:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/handshake-decentralized-internet.1181812/

Now when it's hyped on every corner - this is not a 'belief' - this is jumping on a leaving train.

 

[Donnyd]

This is so easy to understand, some people say they can't understand it. If your a domain investor and you have a problem understanding this you should do something else. It is like adding 1 + 1.

It is natural for any new thing for people to get scared. NFT, Bitcoin, Handshake domains. LOL

No one cares what you think, this is the new generation. You think young people give a shi- about the olds ways. They don't care. This is a private way for you to search. That's it. Your either in or out.

 

[ryan29]

In my opinion, there will never be a resale market for this. I thought it looked neat enough to sign up and try to grab a brandable name that I have. I went to the site, credit card in hand, ready to spend money and, after I register, I'm greeted with this:

> Before you can start trading HNS, you must first verify your profile. This is because Namebase is an incorporated company that has to follow normal AML/KYC laws like other onramps such as Coinbase.

Hard pass. I'm not giving KYC (know your customer) levels of personal information to some random internet company just so I can spend $5. I use a prepaid credit card for stuff like this, so if I'm not even willing to give them my real CC number, what on earth makes anyone think I'm going to start handing over things like my photo ID, SIN (like a SSN), etc.?

All these crypto businesses are DOA if you need to provide KYC documentation to spend money. Plus, just to make it even worse, in my jurisdiction (Canada), every transaction is considered a taxable event where I'm supposed to track capital gains and losses vs "fair market value" so I can claim them on my taxes.

The idea of a blockchain based DNS is very cool, but tying it to crypto currency that fluctuates in value and is treated like a security in most western countries ruins its usefulness IMO.

 

[Santaclaws]

The "independence" factor seems overhyped. All this really does is make Google, Apple and co. the new ICANN. For example someone registeres a trademarked HLS domain, it resolves on Chrome. The trademark holder may not be able to find and petition the domain holder -- but they can sure as heck sue Google. As a result Chrome blocks it, and so on.

Google and Apple are not going to let their browsers (and APIs, etc.) resolve domains that could be (or host) anything under the sun with no accountability. Spoof companies plus all the darkest darkness you can imagine. And they're not going to hire thousands of people to continually vet every HLS domain. With ICANN and ccTLDs, at least they can offload some of the responsibility to the registries, wash their hands. With HLS domains, Google and Apple are the only ones in the (visible) firing line. Who'd want to be there?

Even smaller browsers like Brave -- the first round of litigation and they might have to rethink. Regardless, a few rows added to the App Store or Google Play guidelines can easily stop any browser that resolves HLS domains.

And what happens if someone registers a handshake domain and then ICANN registers the same one? Right now HLS is trying to dance around ICANN, but for how long till they step on toes? For example there is already an HLS domain .thailand. Let's say the gov of Thailand goes to ICANN and registers it. Now what? For browsers that do resolve HLS, what are they going to do? Put up a Wikipedia-style disambiguation page every single load? Of course the browser will default to the ICANN option, and the first time that happens it'll be clear who's boss.

Basically it's all very hyped. Doesn't mean HLS domains don't have value, pixelated gifs of potatoes sold as NFTs have value. But this future of a decentralised web? Dunno.

 

[jamesau]

Google and Apple are not going to let their browsers (and APIs, etc.) resolve domains that could be (or host) anything under the sun with no accountability. Spoof companies plus all the darkest darkness you can imagine. And they're not going to hire thousands of people to continually vet every HLS domain. With ICANN and ccTLDs, at least they can offload some of the responsibility to the registries, wash their hands. With HLS domains, Google and Apple are the only ones in the (visible) firing line. Who'd want to be there?

Browsers are actually the sensible choice to provide filtering on the Internet. It should be their responsibility to filter out these websites and Handshake stakeholders would be glad to see this implemented.

HNS being used for evil is the same argument as Bitcoin only being used for drugs and the darkweb. Try finding a local drug dealer who doesn't want payment in fiat.

My personal view on this is Handshake is the only credible threat to domains as we know it. Unstoppable and ENS are just fun.

I would urge anybody on Namepros to seriously consider getting involved in Handshake, as a hedge on your traditional domain portfolio if nothing else.

 

[Santaclaws]

There is filth out there on every corner of the Internet right now, and in many ways HNS and community ownership could help to improve that with simpler reporting and blocking.

Sure there's a heap of bad stuff out there on the normal web, but you cannot go to crack.com and place an order for crack. There are multiple levels of take-down for such a thing, from ICANN to the national registry to the registrar and so on. If I create crack.crack on the blockchain, that's a different story. Nobody can really "take it down", so to speak, not the community, not the authorities (what authorities?) -- The only true layer or insulation is with the browser. And again, that puts policing firmly in the hands of Google and Apple, neither of whom want that job by any stretch of the imagination.

And again, other browsers won't likely emerge -- the very idea of a standalone browser not tied to a massive ecosystem is something that's already out step with the non-techy mainstream. Just seems like a very tough sell.

 

[Santaclaws]

Firefox and IE shared 80% of all traffic. A lot can change.

I agree with you that a lot can change in 10 years. If I made a wager I'd say:

All handshake domains will resolve in major browsers in 10 years in an impossibility, given that major access points of any stripe cannot facilitate illegal activities and Handshake will never be 100% clean.

Some handshake domains will resolve in major browsers is a possibility, but if that’s the case it means either Google and Apple (or whoever else has emerged by then) will have become de-facto Handshake domain registrars, even more in control than the registrars of today in some ways. So out of the frying pan into the fire, for those against outside control of their domains.

No handshake domains resolving remains the most likely outcome in my opinion, perhaps after a fraught period of some domains resolving, and my money is there.

But you're right, one never knows, we shall see.

 

[bmugford]

The problem with these domains is that in a couple years when ICANN opens a second round of gTLD applications, many if not all of these are going to be applied for and delegated on the standard DNS servers, which don't require any special software or settings to resolve.

Any mainstream browser is going to resolve that version, not these alternate DNS versions, which will largely render them moot.

ICANN did not care about alternate "extensions" in the past, and won't now either. They will delegate them.

Here is one of several examples -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New.net

Brad

 

[GreatBrand.in]

Thanks for bringing this new provocating idea of handshake domain. I like the concept but then realise that it is still not providing real independence or following the actual decentralised approach. Instead of a few big registrars in the legacy domain field, here in Handshake, we will have many first movers who will control your privacy and future through their extension like in your case through .visit or .article. In short, it will be like Coinbase who owned your cryptocurrency or bitcoin and you feel empowered that your bitcoins are independent of the bank or govt but not aware that the CoinBase stored your bitcoin is still not in your full control and could be more dangerous and vulnerable to market volatility (we have witnessed recently the day after Coinbase IPO) until it in your own cold vault/ wallet.

Also, I am not convinced that through one-time payment without an annual fee how they will maintain such infrastructure in future maybe they propose some Gas fee concept later on because nothing is free in life and normally cheap option cost more dearly.

Anyway, It is a good development and will certainly put pressure on legacy domain registrars to be more innovative, affordable and a bit humble.

Thank you!

 

[Registry Services]

What if all the browsers allow the visibility of these .HS and .crypto domains. Let's say somehow .c/ actually works exactly like the .com (the point is can today's broker become tomorrow's builder).

You can do this, you just have to change your DNS Servers to ones that are Handshake capable.

Its possible there may be some issues with some domains in some browsers (for legacy reasons etc), but on the whole I'd expect most of them to work, so long as their DNS can be looked up.

dot-C is already selling quite a lot of sub-names