GoDaddy / NameFind Bad Faith - Took Domain Away

Discussion in 'Domain Marketplace Reviews' started by Seasoned, .

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  1. John Napoletano

    John Napoletano Established Member

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    I'm not freeking out. It's not my first auction. This one smells fishy. I'm waiting for whois verification of who received it. The rep told me it was being transferred to someone other than me. I need whois before and whois after, where and when it was purchased, was Clawback to original owner. Is 12/4 going to be any different?
     
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  2. John Napoletano

    John Napoletano Established Member

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    Paul who, maybe he can help me. Thanks.
     
  3. xyo

    xyo Established Member

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    @John Napoletano have you checked whois? The domain is in redemption therefore the statement from the rep that someone else will get it seems incorrect.

    It seems more like the domain was pushed to the Godaddy/Afternic Transfer Account at Fast Domain but for some reason the transfer to Godaddy failed. And as the domain was scheduled to expired in entered redemption yesterday
     
  4. John Napoletano

    John Napoletano Established Member

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    @xyo Any idea who would be able to clear this up at GoDaddy, a name, someone on NP?

    I didn't ask for a refund, they just canceled it when I inquired about it. I'd prefer to have the domain. I just got off the phone with Afternic and FastDomain. So that's all three that can't figure out what to do if anything.

    Thanks to all responding. Appreciated.
     
  5. xyo

    xyo Established Member

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    Strange thing. It always surprises me how the support of the companies involved often is clueless.
    I think @Joe Styler might be able to shed some light to it.

    On the other hand, you could also wait for the domain to drop (should be on 01/9) and then handreg it
     
  6. John Napoletano

    John Napoletano Established Member

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    UPDATE just got off the phone with GoDaddy Auctions. They said (through a rep) that the original owner renewed the domain, and, initiated a 'transfer' to do so. No names given so have to wait until the whois is updated which will take a few days.

    This could have all been made very clear if the parties involved would just come up with codes or canned responses in the auction panel as to what went down -- "domain restored to original owner" -- for example would solve a large chunk of problems. "...partner registrar..informed us that that domain would no longer be becoming available..." is a nothing burger.

    For $12 I guess no one wants to process, store, and audit the whois data before and after, I mean the network of brokers. I can only hope 12/4 is better.

    I'll leave this post for the next with issues. Good luck!
     
  7. Joe Styler

    Joe Styler Aftermarket Product Manager GoDaddy Staff Afternic Staff PRO VIP

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    First of all I apologize, it looks to me like something broke on both these names being fulfilled. These names are not expired at GoDaddy but one of our partners. The way that works is if someone renews the domain there they send us a cancellation notice for the auction and we cancel it and refund it. This will not change 12/4 these names are coming from another registrar with their own expiration time lines etc they are not impacted in any way by our policies.
    We sell millions of domain names, these systems are all automated and audited and work pretty well. So we would have caught it in an audit. We are not taking anyone's names they bid on in the auction. We do not bid against anyone or take or hold back any names they all go through our expired auctions like normal. The names are put in various holding accounts depending on the company they are coming from. Those holding accounts automatically update the WHOIS to say Namefind - Pending transfer. Like the two examples in the thread, Axium.co and NakedHeart.com they both say - Pending transfer, meaning we are moving them to the buyer. I am having the developers look into this to find the issue, but somewhere from some side we got an automated call to cancel these auctions which again is meant for the case where the original owner renews, transfers the domain, court order says hold the domain etc etc basically when a name can no longer be listed for sale.
    So this was all automated and something broke. We will look into what. The agents on the phone are likely only going to be able to see the cancel call and assume that the system is working like it should and you cannot get the domain anymore. That may still be the case, we don't know and have to investigate. I will let you know what we find out. It is possible that the original owner did renew the domain and the automatic call to update the WHOIS failed, it could also be there is a hold placed on the domain after the sale from a legal entity and that happened in the middle of fulfillment so the name is frozen and cant move and the WHOIS is not updated. I will let you know when I find out more.
    Bottom line we don't cancel auctions and take names from people. This WHOIS shows we were trying to move it to the buyers, not keep it. Our WHOIS for names we own just say Namefind not Namefind - Pending Transfer. Something broke, we'll figure it out and I will let you know what I find out.
     
  8. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Member VIP

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    I can vouch for the fact godaddy does not take back names, if transfer is pending, most likely they are trying to get it to you, this is just how the cross platform system works, there is no magical transfer, it has to follow a process. I have no idea what happend with it, but I hope you get it, either way you will get a refund. Nothing is absolute in any auction format.
     
  9. John Napoletano

    John Napoletano Established Member

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    Thanks for looking into this, always appreciated.

    Couple of ideas that might help.

    (1) id GoDaddy held auctions so we can bid more on them.

    (2) add a failure code field visible from the buyers panel. If not pretty , at least a number similar to telecom (123 - renewed, 456 - court order) and we can look it up ourselves.

    (3) store or force update whois before and after the listing. if you store it allow a $5 buy the data link after the auction finishes, or, support an external tool that doesn't cost $50 per report with ify data. (if it already exists please drop the link here).

    Backorders haven't been working well for me so that's not an option.

    Thanks again.
     
  10. anf

    anf Established Member

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    May be this is some techical problem, i am not sure. But i paid for the domain on november 19 and got refund couple of days later, so they are definitely not trying to transfer the domain.
     
  11. Joe Styler

    Joe Styler Aftermarket Product Manager GoDaddy Staff Afternic Staff PRO VIP

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    OK here is an update with what we have figured out so far. On nakedheart.com we were told by the company it was registered at to delist it via an API call. This is the call we get when the name is renewed or transferred away etc. We don't know a few things yet which we are still working on digging into with the partner.
    Why did we get the call if the name wasn't transferred or renewed?
    Why is the domain in our name on the WHOIS when we got the cancel call? Without getting too technical the name shouldn't change to us until we are ready and able to move it to the buyer.
    Something broke here on this name we will still investigate and find out what.
    We would not have at any time taken control over the name and listed it for sale. The name was not with us it was just in our name on the WHOIS. We are currently moving it here so we can award it to @anf if you still want it. The auctions support team is reaching out to you today.

    On Axium.co the name was put in our name we were told there was a winner and called for the domain. We requested the transfer many times and it failed every time. Since it would not transfer we cancelled the auction and refunded you. This is automated. There was a problem with the transfer we are investigating. Automated transfers can fail sometimes. The system acted as if the domain was no longer available and cancelled the auction because as far as it knew it wasn't. Again we sell millions of domains these systems are all automated. No one was watching this name to keep it on our side. On our records the name failed and wasn't available.

    These system calls go into logs and those basically show the agent you speak with that the auction was cancelled because the name cannot move to the buyer which in almost all the cases is because the name is renewed or transferred by the original owner. These are edge cases where something broke. So I do apologize for the wrong information you were given by support. I do want to point out that they were trying to help and did look at the logs so they did their best to give you the right answer, they did not purposely deceive or shoot out an email without investigating the auctions. They gave you the answer they saw and had no reason to think otherwise since that is normally the case. Wrong is wrong though and we do apologize. I only bring this up to say there was no intent to deceive.

    What would have happened is we would have audited the holding account /auctions logs etc, and the name which was renewed but not moved would have been eventually awarded to the auction winner. The other name would likely have dropped. Neither of them would have been kept by us. I don't remember which was expired and which was not because we redeemed the other one, at our own cost, so we could move both names to the buyers at this point. Support will be reaching out to do that today.

    We are currently running an audit of the domains that failed to make sure no other names were impacted. We are also changing the logic in the API to give more time on domains to transfer before they are deemed failed and cancelled. This should address any open issues as I already stated we are working to find out what happened with the cancel call we received from the other party.

    In general expired domains are working on a very strict timeline and while most are awarded without issue any bids on them are not guaranteed. The vast majority are fine, some are redeemed and sometimes technical issues come up. We work hard to limit this.
     
  12. anf

    anf Established Member

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    Ok, i got the name, thank you Joe. I am looking forward to buy more names on GD auctions.
     
  13. John Napoletano

    John Napoletano Established Member

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    @Joe Styler

    I have new dotCO failures: equipped.co, haga.co, reflective.co, rozi.co, sanza.co. These say expired domain ready on or before 12/16 through 12/24. Who can I contact that knows what is going on? If I call in I get my hosting rep. If I email I get canned responses that, as with Axium, don't make any sense. Refunds are issued as you mentioned and the domains are lost seemingly forever to the internet gods.

    Axium.co auction closed on 2017/11/24. I still see that GoDaddy is on the whois. If it was a transfer by the owner it should have been completed by now with their info on the whois. At what point do you, Neustar, or ICANN pull the domain from this owner for invalid whois data?

    I'm a nice guy, nicer than most, but I am formerly an Accountant. When transaction data is not accurate I ask why, what did the audit reveal?

    Per the ICANN docs, Axium.co has now failed to maintain accurate whois:

    https://whois.icann.org/en/primer#field-section-3

    Accuracy

    Because registration data connects individuals or organizations with domain names, domain name registrants are required to provide accurate and reliable contact details. If the domain name registrant knowingly provides inaccurate information, fails to update information within seven days of any change, or does not respond within 15 days to an inquiry about accuracy, the domain name may be suspended or cancelled.

    For their part, registrars are required to comply with the new WHOIS Accuracy Specification. They must verify certain WHOIS fields such as email addresses or phone numbers and validate the presence of data as well as the format of email addresses, postal addresses and telephone numbers. Registrars are also obliged to send annual data reminder notices to domain name registrants and to verify and validate changes to WHOIS data.

    Registrars are obligated to perform these validation and verifications of these WHOIS data fields within fifteen days of the domain registration, inter-registrar transfer, or any change in the domain name registrant. However, if a registrar has already successfully completed the validation and verification procedures on the identical contact information, and is not in possession of facts or knowledge of circumstances that suggest that the information is no longer valid, then it is not obligated to re-validate or re-verify these WHOIS data fields.
     
  14. John Napoletano

    John Napoletano Established Member

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    Registrant Name Afternic TransferService
    Registrant Organization NameFind LLC
    Registrant Street 1 MAIN ST STE 1120
    Registrant City Cambridge
    Registrant State/Province Massachusetts
    Registrant Postal Code 02142
    Registrant Country US

    Thinking about this more, the whois brings up many questions...

    Is NameFind LLC a domain portfolio owned by GoDaddy/Afternic?

    Did NameFind LLC post Axium.co expired domain for auction, then, renew the domain after I won it for $12 on GoDaddy.com?

    If yes to both above, is that not GoDaddy holding the domain name?

    Was the legal registrant before and after the expired auction the same?

    It says 'Afternic TransferService' 1 month after the auction closed. NameFind is part of Afternic so maybe they can write whatever they want in that field (it doesn't say pending). The legal registrant is NameFind LLC as I read it today. It does not say privacy service to hide another owners identity.

    Expired domains to me is a no-reserve auction. It seems unfair that GoDaddy would do this through a sub-company to hide their ownership (if that's what they did, I don't know). If they want to be clear and transparent this should have been a reserve or regular bid counter auction.

    What does the community think, am I crazy, or does this seem strange? I'll drop the issue if you all think I'm crazy. Well I'm dropping it now. But I will read any replies, would love to hear what other domainers are thinking.
     
  15. Joe Styler

    Joe Styler Aftermarket Product Manager GoDaddy Staff Afternic Staff PRO VIP

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    The bottom line is not all expired names you win you will get. We do not keep any names customers bid on, or for that matter any they do not bid on that expire.
    Just because the WHOIS is in our name doesn't mean we have possession of the domain.
    Almost all expired domain names you win on the auction you get.
    It is impossible to fulfill 100% of expired auctions no matter what company you are or how you structure the auctions.

    Having said that I said Axium.co I believe I already told you that you are getting the domain. It was a technical problem. There is still a problem but they are trying to fulfill it. You were refunded, the auctions team will reach out once they get control over the domain in an account here that they can push it to you from and see if you still want the domain if we can get it here.

    The other domains when I looked yesterday had a different whois when I checked at GoDaddy that said something like holding account or transfer to buyer service or something that we put on there to try and show that we don't "own" the domain we are moving it. We do take ownership of the domains in normal circumstances as a middle man to facilitate the move to the buyer, we do not take ownership of the domain to keep it for ourselves or somehow resell it to any other buyer. They are/were moving to you. You can always email [email protected] with any auctions questions.
     
  16. John Napoletano

    John Napoletano Established Member

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    Funny that the five latest batch of stalled .co transfered into my account today. Yes I'll take Axium.co when you get it. There is no need to reach out.

    So I once worked on a FAX api years ago. Customers complained they didn't know if a fax went through, the status wasn't always updating in their control panel. I fixed it. I didn't try to defend how bad it was, it was bad.

    Right now I'm looking at my Bidding List 'Won' tab. Most of the status say "Expired domain ready on ..." even for the ones in my account already. So now, because your API don't work as expected, I have to manually check if I received the domains, and check if the billing is correct.

    Please add to your API fixes an "is in the account" check.

    (1) If in the account, update Won status "In account 2017/12/1" for example. I see a mix of messages now from dates to "Email Seller for details".

    (2) If Expired domain ready on 2017/12/01 and NOT in the account, update "Delayed until 2017/12/15" or "Sent to audit 2017/12/01" say something other than the 'ready on' status so customers don't have to call.

    (3) Didn't Win...there is an End Date but no Status o Paid/Refund indicator. So I won the auction, that should not change. I'd suggest that you keep clawbacks in the Won tab and change Paid --> Refund. Change Status to "Renewed by owner" or other status better than just Didn't Win. No I did win, but I was Refunded with a status of Renewed by owner 2017/12/05.

    It's fully automated and it's too technical to explain is not an answer. Your API have a logic to them, they check the status, they update one or more tables (Won, Didn't Win).
    I'm not asking for major overhall of your system. Just make the control panel work for me the user, a GoDaddy customer for over 10 years. Automated for the user versus automated for GoDaddy seems to be the issue here.

    Unfortunately if I don't pester you about it nothing will change. You're welcome for the feedback.
     
  17. xyo

    xyo Established Member

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    @John Napoletano

    the "Expired domain ready on ..." status message on the Won tab probably was/is always only set after you won the domain. Though, I support your proposal that they should updated this field during the process. That would prevent uncertainty and you would only need to contact support if the status says there were complications.

    You already could use the GD API to track if expired domains are assigned correctly. As soon as your order for an expired domain is done, the API lists your domain with status:

    Code:
    {"domainId":xxx,"domain":"xxx.com","status":"PENDING_HOLD_ESCROW",...}
    (which will change to "ACTIVE" once the domain is actually in your account)
     
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  18. Nat Hunt

    Nat Hunt Upgraded Member Gold Account VIP

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    I noticed that this name CrazyChick.com was in GD Expiring and disappeared early. Now it is showing NameFind as the owner. Is NameFind somehow jumping ahead of GD Auctions customers?
     
  19. Asfas1000

    Asfas1000 Active Member VIP

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  20. Joe Styler

    Joe Styler Aftermarket Product Manager GoDaddy Staff Afternic Staff PRO VIP

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    We are not bidding on any auctions period - end of story.
     
  21. Joe Styler

    Joe Styler Aftermarket Product Manager GoDaddy Staff Afternic Staff PRO VIP

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    We do not do that I have said this many times. We only buy portfolios of domains we do not hold back any expired domains or bid against customers.
    We recently bought a portfolio of domains and normally when we buy portfolios of names some are expired because of the time it takes to get everything done, paid, access to accounts etc, and we then normally start moving names to our GD account under the Namefind portfolio.
    This was one of those names, we bought it, it was included in the portfolio deal we made and we simply renewed it via transfer once we got control over it. It was not in our control to list or not list via the auction until we moved it, it was in the hands of another party. We have NDA agreements in place and cannot discuss more details about the transaction, parties etc. However, if you follow the main domain blogs they usually watch the WHOIS changes etc and report on changes in portfolio ownership and you can see this lines up with what is being publicly reported elsewhere.
     
  22. Asfas1000

    Asfas1000 Active Member VIP

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    Apologies.
    In retrospect, there is no evidence that GD is bidding on GD auctions.
     

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