GoDaddy Auctions -- Discussion, Acquisitions, and Sales

[Ms Domainer]

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I searched the forum and could not find a thread dedicated solely to Godaddy auctions, which seem to be heating up lately.

I envision this thread as a place for discussion regarding YOUR sales and acquisitions, and general discussion about the auction venue itself, and, perhaps, some domain oddities that are popping up on the auction site, for example, high-priced domains that should be regfee.



One caveat, though: for your own good, PLEASE do not reveal your auction win (or anyone else's, for that matter) until the domain has landed in your account because the original owner still has the option to renew it, and I know how vexing that can be. In other words, don't count your chickens until they're hatched.

On the other hand, if you're having second thoughts about your auction win, by all means tell us all about it.

I suppose that if an auction win is high profile, it's already out there, but, still...

Anyway, I'll start with three comments:

1. I won my first (and maybe last) intentional typo, and it's getting clicks (no $ so far, though): Forwx.com. I could not find a live TM on this term, but one never knows. I have mixed feelings about this one.

2. I accidentally clicked on a BIN that I didn't want (I wanted the one above it), but I decided to honor the bid anyway. Grrr..., so be careful before hitting the submit button. It's not in my account yet, so I can't really reveal it right now.

3. Currently, there's a weird .co domain at over $9,000, with three bidders duking it out. Again, I don't want to reveal what it is, but if you go to the most active auctions, it's number 1 (as of this posting).​

Mods, I hope this thread is okay.



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[Ms Domainer]

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Technically until day 43 after expiration the original registrant still owns and has the right to renew the domain.

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You show me where ICANN specifically states this in ICANN's registrant rights, and I'll believe this.

I'll even give you the link to ICANN's "Registrant Rights and Responsibilities Under the 2009 Registrar Accreditation Agreement":

http://www.namepros.com/domain-name...n-icann-registrar-accreditation-policies.html​

and a link to the "Registrar Accreditation Agreement":

http://www.icann.org/en/resources/registrars/raa/ra-agreement-21may09-en.htm​

IMO, Goddady has a glitch in its transfer lock system and doesn't want to admit it, so it hides behind some bogus ICANN rule.

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[JB Lions]

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You show me where ICANN specifically states this in ICANN's registrant rights, and I'll believe this.

I'll even give you the link to ICANN's "Registrant Rights and Responsibilities Under the 2009 Registrar Accreditation Agreement":

http://www.namepros.com/domain-name...n-icann-registrar-accreditation-policies.html​

and a link to the "Registrar Accreditation Agreement":

http://www.icann.org/en/resources/registrars/raa/ra-agreement-21may09-en.htm​

IMO, Goddady has a glitch in its transfer lock system and doesn't want to admit it, so it hides behind some bogus ICANN rule.

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Probably reading it wrong, just woke up but are you talking about:

"There is a 45-day auto-renew grace period following the expiration of a domain name registration. You have the opportunity to renew it during this period. If you do not renew it, the domain name will begin the deletion process and then become available for re-registration."

http://www.icann.org/en/resources/compliance/faqs

 

[bmugford]

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You show me where ICANN specifically states this in ICANN's registrant rights, and I'll believe this.

I'll even give you the link to ICANN's "Registrant Rights and Responsibilities Under the 2009 Registrar Accreditation Agreement":

http://www.namepros.com/domain-name...n-icann-registrar-accreditation-policies.html​

and a link to the "Registrar Accreditation Agreement":

http://www.icann.org/en/resources/registrars/raa/ra-agreement-21may09-en.htm​

IMO, Goddady has a glitch in its transfer lock system and doesn't want to admit it, so it hides behind some bogus ICANN rule.

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I am not sure where I said it was ICANN policy.

Domains registered at GoDaddy are also subject to GoDaddy TOS.

Brad

 

[Ms Domainer]

Probably reading it wrong, just woke up but are you talking about:

"There is a 45-day auto-renew grace period following the expiration of a domain name registration. You have the opportunity to renew it during this period. If you do not renew it, the domain name will begin the deletion process and then become available for re-registration."

http://www.icann.org/en/resources/compliance/faqs

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I see that this appears in FAQ, but it does NOT appear in the official agreement.

I would assume that the Official Agreement would trump any FAQ.

ICANN is a mess; one hand doesn't know what the other hand is doing.

Thoughts?

ADDED: I just want to add that I am NOT opposed to a grace period, whether it's 30 or 45 days. In fact it makes good business sense and protects owners from extenuating circumstances. In fact, I wish ICANN would include this option in its actual Accreditation Agreement, not just some FAQ some ICANN official wrote up without referring to the actual agreement.

BUT, I AM opposed to Godaddy (and other auction platforms) starting auctions before the the grace period is over. If the 45-day rule is some vague ICANN rule, then Godaddy and others are selling property that doesn't belong to them. I don't think a registrar can have it both ways:

"I don't own it, but I can sell it and pocket the money myself."​

Seriously?

For me, this is the crux of the matter.

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[JB Lions]

You guys are confusing me. Isn't it 75 days.

45-day auto-renew grace period then 30 days more during the Redemption Grace Period.

My domain expires today, I still have 75 days to renew, cost more during the Redemtion Period.

"If the 45-day rule is some vague ICANN rule"

I didn't think it was vague, thought it was pretty well known -

http://www.icann.org/en/resources/registrars/gtld-lifecycle

As far as GoDaddy:
"Expiring auctions, listed for sale on Go Daddy Auctions®, are expiring domains that are registered with us. You can view and bid on expiring domain name auctions. However, the current registrant can renew the domain within the redemption grace period."

Yeah, I can understand your point, they have auctions for names that can still be renewed by the original owner. I personally like these because you get a good shot at some decent names. I go in knowing that I can win the auction but the domains can still be renewed.

 

[Ms Domainer]

For your entertainment pleasure, from the ICANN Archives

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Since this is related to the current conversation, I thought you might be charmed by Rob Hall's highly entertaining remarks regarding the domain expiration period (2007 ICANN meeting in Lisbon, Portugal) (Thanks to member defaultuser for finding this).

I realize that these remarks are five years old, but they reveal some inherent weaknesses in the current ICANN agreement.

"Toothless," as sdsinc has said.

http://archive.icann.org/en/meetings/lisbon/transcript-tutorial-expiring-25mar07.htm​

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[equity78]

You make good points Ms.Domainer but I don't think they could wait til there were no renewal rights to the former registrant, because then they would be paying renewals on the thousands of domains nobody bids for at auction.

 

[Ms Domainer]

You guys are confusing me. Isn't it 75 days.

45-day auto-renew grace period then 30 days more during the Redemption Grace Period.

My domain expires today, I still have 75 days to renew, cost more during the Redemtion Period.

"If the 45-day rule is some vague ICANN rule"

I didn't think it was vague, thought it was pretty well known -

http://www.icann.org/en/resources/registrars/gtld-lifecycle

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Seems to be well-known only in our imaginations and ICANN's FAQ page, which really doesn't mean anything.

Basically, a registrar can do whatever it wants regarding expiring domains.

It would be interesting what John Berryhill would say about this.



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[m-i-k-e]

You make good points Ms.Domainer but I don't think they could wait til there were no renewal rights to the former registrant, because then they would be paying renewals on the thousands of domains nobody bids for at auction.

That's where the namejet style of backordering domains before a private auction starts would come into play.

 

[DU]

You make good points Ms.Domainer but I don't think they could wait til there were no renewal rights to the former registrant, because then they would be paying renewals on the thousands of domains nobody bids for at auction.

Thats what 30 days of ppc and traffic monitoring is for

 

[equity78]

You mean so interest would be denoted to the registrar that this name has value and will get paid.

But you can still lose a NameJet win even after it in your account,previous registrant renewed.

---------- Post added at 11:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:25 AM ----------

That's a fair point John I don't think they see it that way. There is value in monitoring traffic and the ppc.

 

[m-i-k-e]

You mean so interest would be denoted to the registrar that this name has value and will get paid.

But you can still lose a NameJet win even after it in your account,previous registrant renewed.

Yes, using the backorder system first godaddy would be guaranteed their $12+ renewal. I am talking backorders having to be placed while the current owner can still renew, but, the auctions not taking place until after the previous owner loses control.

 

[Ms Domainer]

That's where the namejet style of backordering domains before a private auction starts would come into play.

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I wouldn't use Namejet as a model for pre-release domains; they're even worse than Godaddy.

You can actually have the domain in your possession and be developing it, when POOF! it disappears after the previous owner has renewed it.

At least Godaddy holds the domain before releasing it to the owner.

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[equity78]

Domain Lifecycle Explanation

By Dynadot Staff Writer

2006/01/09

This article examines the lifecycle of a typical domain name, from registration to deletion. For simplicity, we will say that our domain name was registered on Jan 1, 2005.

Date Event Status
2005/01/01 domain registered ACTIVE
2005/03/01 after 60 days, the domain can now be transferred to another registrar, if desired ACTIVE
2005/11/01 most registrars start sending renewal notices around this time ACTIVE
2006/01/01 the domain has expired; most registrars will HOLD the domain, which means your website and email will no longer work; you can still renew your domain name for the regular price; you can no longer transfer the domain unless you renew first REGISTRAR-HOLD
2006/02/09 after 40 days, most registrars delete the domain; to get the domain back after this point you have to restore it which costs a lot REDEMPTIONPERIOD
2006/03/11 after 30 days, the domain can no longer be restored; the only way to get the domain back is to wait until it is dropped from the registry; of course anyone else can also register the domain at that time PENDINGDELETE
2006/03/16 after 5 days, the domain is dropped from the central registry and can now be registered by anyone, first come first serve; if the domain is valuable or has lots of traffic it will be snapped up seconds after it has dropped; Google "expiring domain names" for more information; to get a valuable domain back consider using a service like Snapnames.com. none

If you want to keep your domain name, the best policy is to renew early. You do not lose any time by renewing early. For example, if the domain expires on Jan 1 2006, and you renew 1 month before that, the new expiration date is Jan 1 2007.

The chart above applies to COM & NET domains. ORG, INFO, BIZ, US & CN domains have a similar lifecycle, but the status names may be different. WS domains do not have a REDEMPTIONPERIOD, and are dropped 25 days after expiration.

 

[JB Lions]

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Seems to be well-known only in our imaginations and ICANN's FAQ page, which really doesn't mean anything.

Basically, a registrar can do whatever it wants regarding expiring domains.

It would be interesting what John Berryhill would say about this.



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There is some old stuff on that, after doing a little Googling - http://archive.icann.org/en/participate/mexico-city-public-forum-response.htm#9

Kirikos asked:
Registrars can earn more money by auctioning their customers' expired domains, thus they might "forget" to autorenew them so they can be auctioned. Does this conflict of interest concern ICANN?

Berkens asked:
Is ICANN going to adopt a uniform policy for the deletion of expired domains? Currently each registrar can do what they want, including just keeping their customer's expired domains.

It seems with this kind of thing, it's up to the registrar:

"Under the Expired Domain Deletion Policy, http://www.icann.org/en/registrars/eddp.htm, registrars must provide registrants with the details of their deletion and auto-renewal policies. In selecting a registrar, registrants should read their registration agreement and consider the registrar's deletion policy."

Way I read that, registrars just need to notify you of your expiring names, other than that, they can have these auctions.

and what equity78 said below.

"First of all, the registrar has already paid for the renewal because the domain registration auto-renews at the registry. So, for all intents and purposes, your registrar is now the owner and for a brief period they often do what they want with the domain."

To even have a 45 grace period, when you think about it, is pretty nice. Your domain expired, you didn't renew and yet you still have a chance to get it. You got it for 1 year, not 1 year and 45 days, 1 year and 75 days etc.

 

[equity78]

Here is the CEO of Pool in 2010 on Sullysblog http://sullysblog.com/Richard-Schreier-Pool

Registrars use the point in time that a domain expires to remind registrants that their registration has lapsed. You haven’t lost your domain yet. Depending on your registrars rules you have up to 45 days to renew your registration. This period is called the Expiry or Renewal Grace Period. .But, be very careful! Different registrars deal with expired domains in different ways.

First of all, the registrar has already paid for the renewal because the domain registration auto-renews at the registry. So, for all intents and purposes, your registrar is now the owner and for a brief period they often do what they want with the domain.

 

[m-i-k-e]

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I wouldn't use Namejet as a model for pre-release domains; they're even worse than Godaddy.

You can actually have the domain in your possession and be developing it, when POOF! it disappears after the previous owner has renewed it.

At least Godaddy holds the domain before releasing it to the owner.

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The model I suggested borrowed the backordering before auction aspect from Namejet, nothing more.

You don't want Godaddy to auction off names that they don't own, but you can't expect them to pay for and stock pile every domain that expires with them.

 

[Ms Domainer]

Here is the CEO of Pool in 2010 on Sullysblog http://sullysblog.com/Richard-Schreier-Pool

Registrars use the point in time that a domain expires to remind registrants that their registration has lapsed. You haven’t lost your domain yet. Depending on your registrars rules you have up to 45 days to renew your registration. This period is called the Expiry or Renewal Grace Period. .But, be very careful! Different registrars deal with expired domains in different ways.

First of all, the registrar has already paid for the renewal because the domain registration auto-renews at the registry. So, for all intents and purposes, your registrar is now the owner and for a brief period they often do what they want with the domain.

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So, then, registrars are warehousing domains. Thanks for clearing that up.

LOL

More than that, this raises another question: if the registrar owns the domain, then how can the former owner transfer it out? Renew it?

Here is the actual text from ICANN's Registrar Accreditation Agreement regarding the handling of expired names:

3.7.5 At the conclusion of the registration period, failure by or on behalf of the Registered Name Holder to consent that the registration be renewed within the time specified in a second notice or reminder shall, in the absence of extenuating circumstances, result in cancellation of the registration by the end of the auto-renew grace period (although Registrar may choose to cancel the name earlier). [My emphasis. The auto-renew grace period is not explained or specified here]

3.7.5.1 Extenuating circumstances are defined as: UDRP action, valid court order, failure of a Registrar's renewal process (which does not include failure of a registrant to respond), the domain name is used by a nameserver that provides DNS service to third-parties (additional time may be required to migrate the records managed by the nameserver), the registrant is subject to bankruptcy proceedings, payment dispute (where a registrant claims to have paid for a renewal, or a discrepancy in the amount paid), billing dispute (where a registrant disputes the amount on a bill), domain name subject to litigation in a court of competent jurisdiction, or other circumstance as approved specifically by ICANN [selling names on the aftermarket as an extenuating circumstance??? LOL].

3.7.5.2 Where Registrar chooses, under extenuating circumstances, to renew a domain name without the explicit consent of the registrant, the registrar must maintain a record of the extenuating circumstances associated with renewing that specific domain name for inspection by ICANN consistent with clauses 3.4.2 and 3.4.3 of this registrar accreditation agreement.

3.7.5.3 In the absence of extenuating circumstances (as defined in Section 3.7.5.1 above), a domain name must be deleted within 45 days of either the registrar or the registrant terminating a registration agreement. [Could this bolded area be a source of confusion for both registrars and domain owners??? This says the domain must be deleted by day 45, but says nothing about deletion beforehand.]
....

From 3.7.5.7 The registrant retains the right under the existing redemption grace period provisions to recover the name at any time during the Redemption Grace Period, and retains the right to renew the name before it is deleted. [Again, it doesn't specify what this period is, suggesting that it's up to the registrar, as long as it's within the 45-day window. In other words, the grace period could be 1-day. This could also be interpreted that the former owner could reclaim the domain ANYTIME before deletion. Are we having fun yet?]​

This section suggests that the actual deletion date is up to the registrar itself.

And renewing a domain (without the consent of the former owner) for resale would not constitute an "extenuating circumstance," at least acoording to the definition of "extenuating circumstances":

...special (but otherwise unspecified) circumstances that account for an irregular or improper way of doing something, from http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/extenuating+circumstances​

Hell, maybe that definition does fit.

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[JB Lions]

You know, some of the confusion is this, from GoDaddy:

http://support.godaddy.com/help/article/6700/what-happens-after-domain-names-expire

Day 1 We make the first of three billing attempts to renew the domain name. If the billing fails, the domain name expires. The domain name can be renewed by the registrant at no extra cost.
Day 5 We make the second billing attempt. If the billing fails again, the domain name is parked. The domain name can still be renewed by the registrant at no extra cost.
Day 12 We make the third and final attempt to renew the domain name. The domain name can still be renewable by the registrant at no extra cost.
Day 19 The domain name can be renewed by the registrant for the cost of a one-year renewal plus an $80.00 redemption fee.
Day 26 We add the domain name to an expired domain name auction.
Day 36 The expired domain name auction ends. If there are no backorders and no bidders in the expired domain name auction, we list the domain name in a closeout auction.
Day 41 The closeout auction ends.
Day 43 We assign the domain name to the winner of the expired domain name auction, backorder, or closeout. If there are no bidders, we return the domain name to the registry.
Note: A registrant can renew an expired domain name at no extra cost up to day 18. If they renew an expired domain name anytime between day 19 and day 42, they must also pay an $80.00 redemption fee. The domain name cannot be renewed after day 42.

doesn't match http://www.icann.org/en/resources/registrars/gtld-lifecycle which is the same thing equity78 posted above from the Dynadot staff writer

With the above, it's like GoDaddy is saying on day 43 it goes out there for anybody to register and the life cycle chart, it says 80 days (45 auto renew grace period + 30 day redemption grace period + 5 day pending delete)

Unless I'm reading something wrong or there is a mistake somewhere.

 

[Ms Domainer]

You know, some of the confusion is this, from GoDaddy:

http://support.godaddy.com/help/article/6700/what-happens-after-domain-names-expire

Day 1 We make the first of three billing attempts to renew the domain name. If the billing fails, the domain name expires. The domain name can be renewed by the registrant at no extra cost.
Day 5 We make the second billing attempt. If the billing fails again, the domain name is parked. The domain name can still be renewed by the registrant at no extra cost.
Day 12 We make the third and final attempt to renew the domain name. The domain name can still be renewable by the registrant at no extra cost.
Day 19 The domain name can be renewed by the registrant for the cost of a one-year renewal plus an $80.00 redemption fee.
Day 26 We add the domain name to an expired domain name auction.
Day 36 The expired domain name auction ends. If there are no backorders and no bidders in the expired domain name auction, we list the domain name in a closeout auction.
Day 41 The closeout auction ends.
Day 43 We assign the domain name to the winner of the expired domain name auction, backorder, or closeout. If there are no bidders, we return the domain name to the registry.

Note: A registrant can renew an expired domain name at no extra cost up to day 18. If they renew an expired domain name anytime between day 19 and day 42, they must also pay an $80.00 redemption fee. The domain name cannot be renewed after day 42.

doesn't match http://www.icann.org/en/resources/registrars/gtld-lifecycle

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Where is the notation:

Day 1-42 The original registrant may renew the domain, even if a buyer has already paid for it after winning it at auction. In addition, the original registrant may transfer the domain out of Godaddy AT NO COST to another registrar.​

I wonder why day 42 and not day 45, which seems to be the cutoff day?

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[m-i-k-e]

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So, then, registrars are warehousing domains. Thanks for clearing that up.

LOL

More than that, this raises another question: if the registrar owns the domain, then how can the former owner transfer it out? Renew it?

Well, I don't think you can count that as warehousing domains, they've only paid the registry on behalf of the registrant. If the owner fails to renew and if the domain clears closeouts, the domain drops and the registrar gets a refund.

 

[DU]

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I wonder why day 42 and not day 45, which seems to be the cutoff day?

ICANN says 30 days after deleted (this is controlled by Registry).

GoDaddy does the registry "DELETE" on Day 12.

12 + 30 = 42

The day 12 is GoDaddy's choice - they could do it any day up to 45.

 

[Ms Domainer]

Well, I don't think you can count that as warehousing domains, they've only paid the registry on behalf of the registrant. If the owner fails to renew and if the domain clears closeouts, the domain drops and the registrar gets a refund.

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But according to ICANN's agreement with registrars, registrars aren't supposed to renew expired domains on behalf of their registrants without their permission (for example, the original registrant pays up), unless there are "extenuating circumstances."

I did not see "selling the domain on the aftermarket" as an extenuating circumstance.

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---------- Post added at 05:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:22 PM ----------

ICANN says 30 days after deleted (this is controlled by Registry).

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And where in the actual ICANN agreement is this stated?

I realize that I'm being annoying, but everyone seems to be ignoring the ICANN agreement with registrars and focusing on other ICANN pages, which are likely to have little or no weight at all in determining deletion timeline.

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[Kate]

I think the ideal situation would be to mask whois info like Dynadot does, and not start the auctions until 7 days later.

Not very effective, people use domaintools to gain access to cached whois data so they can still reach the domain holder.


Also, there is confusion between grace period and redemption.
It's two different things.

The model originally intended is this: when a domain (gTLD) expires, it goes through the redemption period, during this time the domain holder has a preemptive right to renew. But it's rather expensive (typically $80->$200+ depending on the registrar).

The trick is that the redemption period does not have to start immediately when the domain expires. In practice, the registry autorenews the domains on behalf of the registrar, the registrar can still cancel the autorenew within 45 days and get a refund. Technically the domain name is not expired, it's still in good status with the registry. The holder can renew at standard rate unless the registrar decides to apply a late penalty of some sort (ie register.com). During this period, the registrar can also park the domain, and figure out if they are going to sell the name or even keep it (ie register.com)...

See the graph: http://www.icann.org/en/resources/registrars/gtld-lifecycle

In theory the registrar could send the domain to redemption from day one past expiry, it doesn't have to offer a grace period at all.
Since the length of the grace period varies from one registrar to another, it could take between 35 and 75 days roughly until the domain actually drops.

Again this is for gTLDs only and certain ccTLDs like .us that are run in similar manner.

But nowadays quality domains seldom drop, they go to auctions so the whole RGP process is circumvented. Registrants are still offered some substitute but obviously you have to be careful and watch over your domains. You can't really trust registrars as custodians of your valuable digital assets because the conflicts of interest are present.

 

[Name Trader]

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In another Namepros thread, member cdboard has revealed that Godaddy has clawed back an auction domain after it had landed in his account and the whois had shown his contact info.

See

http://www.namepros.com/753370-heres-a-new-one-for-me-2.html#post4323496​

Has this happened to anyone else?

If so, please tell us!

The only way we can keep these registrars honest is to drag their their dirty business out into the open.

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That has happened to me with one domain also. When I inquired as to why, they just said that it was a TM violation. Since when does GoDaddy have a TM on the word "Daddy". And even if they do, it's not a TM violation until I actually violate the TM. I was too busy to pursue the matter further (knowing that I wouldn't get any favorable decision from the outset).

---------- Post added at 07:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:15 AM ----------

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No, I haven't lately.

Has anyone else had this issue?

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It's still their ongoing policy. So if you have no replies to your question, it's because nobody has asked recently.

---------- Post added at 07:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:19 AM ----------

I literally just paid for CoffeeBeans.Us - It appears that no one cares about my name except for me!

I told you that I liked it