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For some reason, I've been thinking of quitting domaining recently. Yeah - go figure. I'm sharing the thoughts, feel free to share yours.

Catch.Club

twiki

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That doesn't mean it's not making money for me. It is. But it's not record-breaking stuff. Though it has better ROI than some other stuff I have currently.

That doesn't mean it consumes a ton of my time. It doesn't - or at least not anymore. I've streamlined stuff. I can get away with as little as 15 minutes a day if I want to. OR take 2 weeks off - completely if I want.

That doesn't mean I won't be holding domain names anymore. I will - some, my best ones. The others? I'd probably either clear or let them drop.

As one of the most frequent posters in the sales thread: You didn't see this coming from me, right?

But there are reasons I'm considering it. I'm sharing my thoughts, please change my mind. Or not.

What is currently changing my ideas:

- I don't like the current status of the market. I've never seen summer days so empty - in the sales thread. And in my own sales.

I'm making a good ROI, was expected to go past 100% soon (edit: might be there already) and past 100K profit per annum - next year. But it looks as if it doesn't get there. The world is going south - economically.

Edit: 100% annual ROI is not very good in business. Stock size vs. earnings I mean It means your stock rotation time is 6 months, which is not great. Say I have $50k in domains, I make $100k in sales, pocket $50k, that's 100% ROI and 6 months rotation.

- It does require investment. Money you keep locked in your names.

So for example with Dotible (my recent project in the sig) I have low costs and high margin - just like most tech startups would do. Domains aren't that. To make $100k you probably need $50k -$100k in assets (unless you are one of the older top domainers who have very good names).

I'd rather swing my investment towards less risk, more reward areas. Such as tech projects as the aforementioned one.

- It's a positive-feedback business, economically. That's not good right now. What I mean here is: If the economy prospers, you get more money; but if things go south, less domains are being sold. That's the positive feedback. And the downtrend has been already visible in 2022 although the business is still working and some are going quite well. But not everyone.

Things are going south worldwide as you know. I can see the writing on the wall.

In such times, good business is either 1) corporate that is solid and won't probably be touched, 2) small business but with very small cost and overhead, you just simply go ahead, or 3) negative feedback ones.

Example for 3: Repairs, pawn shops/loans or whatnot - anything a person would need in times when cash is low so they need to save or borrow etc. Domains are not of this kind.

I'm thinking of cutting a lot of the overhead, keep a minimal portfolio, have it automated... then off to new things and especially one meeting above criteria: negative feedback business OR high margin / in demand stuff, or catering to enterprise customers that would continue to be just fine in such times.

So what do you think? About what I posted above. Feel free to approve it, or criticize this, or maybe offer me some ideas (hopefully) and most importantly share your thoughts. They will be appreciated nevertheless.

P.S. Oh, and please note I'm also not scared or a quitter or whatnot. I do have good planing in general in business, and my instincts and experience tell me this is a turning point. Now. End of August 2022.
 
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Recons.Com

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If anyone could find a formula to make 150% roi, he'd be soon a billionaire and wouldn't be crying about it.

150% roi means 2.5x of your investment every year.

2.5^10=9537x

So if you invest 10k now, in 10 years you would have $95 million.
 
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satsdifference.com

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i got into nbatopshot nfts past couple years instead, looking forward to retiring off it..

still a heart for domaining as a hand-regger anything new in WHOIS thats available mindful
 
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twiki

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If anyone could find a formula to make 150% roi, he'd be soon a billionaire and wouldn't be crying about it.

150% roi means 2.5x of your investment every year.

2.5^10=9537x

So if you invest 10k now, in 10 years you would have $95 million.
Only theoretically. This is not exactly like buying stocks or something.

There are other factors at play, such as scalability (not enough supply for that), time (limited) and more.

And there are other factors at play as well. Including the fact that if current sales trend continues, I will have much less profit by the end of the year.

(edited - to early for me to do math without coffee)
 
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Edukar

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I think the domain business is a good investment for pensioners and people of art. For those who can wait. To start investing, you need at least 1000 quality domains. That is 10 thousand dollars. With average sales indicators, 1%, 10 domains will be sold per year. I don’t know how others have, my net profit is $ 2,000 from one domain. This means that for 1000 domains renewalls per year it need pay $10,000, and get net gain 20,000-10,000 = $10,000 per year. It turns out a little less than a thousand dollars a month. It is not enough. But with this money you can buy food and not die in a developed country. And this is a lot of money in the third world countries. In addition, there is still one big factor. This is now the average STR is 1%, but before the crisis of this year, my indicator was 2-3%. Therefore, I consider it inappropriate to part with Domaining business. I believe in success.
 
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Lox

_____Top Member
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In the beginning, your mind is focused on
$xxx.xxx (or more)
later on
$xx.xxx
$x.xxx
$xxx
$xx
I Quit

Post #27
 
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twiki

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twiki

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I think the domain business is a good investment for pensioners and people of art. For those who can wait. To start investing, you need at least 1000 quality domains. That is 10 thousand dollars. With average sales indicators, 1%, 10 domains will be sold per year. I don’t know how others have, my net profit is $ 2,000 from one domain. This means that for 1000 domains renewalls per year it need pay $10,000, and get net gain 20,000-10,000 = $10,000 per year. It turns out a little less than a thousand dollars a month. It is not enough. But with this money you can buy food and not die in a developed country. And this is a lot of money in the third world countries. In addition, there is still one big factor. This is now the average STR is 1%, but before the crisis of this year, my indicator was 2-3%. Therefore, I consider it inappropriate to part with Domaining business. I believe in success.
You're forgetting something.

Unless you have better avenues. Much better, though it takes a bit. Which I have.

Edit: Also, I cannot live with $1000 per month or not even $2000, by far. That K would cover just for my daughter's tuition costs in UK, she's at uni right now.
 
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Edukar

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You're forgetting something.

Unless you have better avenues. Much better, though it takes a bit. Which I have.

Edit: Also, I cannot live with $1000 per month or not even $2000, by far. That K would cover just for my daughter's tuition costs in UK, she's at uni right now.
I described the hypothetical situation for 1000 domains and low STR. If you have 5,000 domains and good STR, then the benefit will be 5-10 times more. By the way, I have 5 children, and only one eldest daughter received higher education. In our country, if the child is smart, he(she) can study for free. We have a rule in our family, if you cannot study yourself, then no one will pay for you. If the child wants to study at university, he will receive the highest score and will study for free. But the essence of our conversation is different. I see the profitability of this business, although I have 400 domains, while large sites such as Dan and Sedo kicked out the inhabitants of my country, Paypal, Mastercard and Visa also left my country. This means that I can position my domains on a limited number of sites, I have problems with the purchase and renewalls of domains, but I do not give up and continue this thorny path. Everything is very simple - I am a man of art. And I need time to write books. And if my books are not published and are not sold, only the domain business will help my family afloat.
 
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Recons.Com

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Only theoretically. This is not exactly like buying stocks or something.

There are other factors at play, such as scalability (not enough supply for that), time (limited) and more.

And there are other factors at play as well. Including the fact that if current sales trend continues, I will have much less profit by the end of the year.

(edited - to early for me to do math without coffee)

Well, stocks are not exactly a guaranteed income either. And, of course, with stocks, if you could show few years of track record of making just 20% ROI consistently, you'd have no problem of raising billions of investors' money.

And here you guys are talking about 100%-150% as something not worthy and having better options. That is bogus.

I can relate with the scalability part though. But that is challenge for any business after certain stage. Even HD, if it started today, would struggle to reach 8-9 million domain portfolio size.

Scaling to thousands is not hard, scaling to tens of thousands is challenging (my current stage), scaling to hundreds of thousands is a huge task nowadays.
 
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twiki

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Well, stocks are not exactly a guaranteed income either. And, of course, with stocks, if you could show few years of track record of making just 20% ROI consistently, you'd have no problem of raising billions of investors' money.

And here you guys are talking about 100%-150% as something not worthy and having better options. That is bogus.

I can relate with the scalability part though. But that is challenge for any business after certain stage. Even HD, if it started today, would struggle to reach 8-9 million domain portfolio size.

Scaling to thousands is not hard, scaling to tens of thousands is challenging (my current stage), scaling to hundreds of thousands is a huge task nowadays.
Yep, that's what I meant. I'm glad you recognized the issue.

I know that the ROI isn't too shabby. But there are many other factors at play, too long of a discussion, scalability among them.

One of these is, lately the sales are indeed slow so overall for the year it looks like i will not be anywhere near 150%. This has been so... so far. In the last 30-60 days though, my sales are much fewer (as most of us can see as well with their own sales).

The other is I don't trust sales next year. At all.

I have a gut feeling things will be way worse (and based on some data of course. Not just in domaining. So this was... past ROI.

( Edit: I also have some other businesses which are connected to macro economy and there are some crazy things happening right now. Got all sorts of signals which told me already I should be playing safe, and long term. High exposure right now in domains, it's not playing safe. It's okay if you have money to sleep on for few years. I don't, need them for other things as well. )

The biggest mistake I ever made in my decades of business (been in several very different fields) , was projecting for growth when everything yelled at me the contrary. Since then, I always smelled nasty stuff pretty accurately. And right now I smell blood. We all haven't learned too much from history and these upcoming years will be reckoning time.

I do have other avenues as I said. Not only bigger long-term, but much safer. But that's out of current discussion.

I took the plunge with domains years ago because I knew this will work. Same is now, but in tech. I have all cards, just taking the time to play them.
 
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StartupsBrandsCom

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...
 
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StartupsBrandsCom

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To start investing, you need at least 1000 quality domains


That is the exact purpose of domains business, to catch on good stuff and redistribute for profit. But as with a Mr. Rob Monster team's business experiment of including developing countries(some) on their market place, it could turn-out as not enough for global business demand trending.
 
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lock

FREE.MARKETINGTop Member
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I feel same way so stuff it i am now end user woohoo.
 
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scaling to tens of thousands is challenging (my current stage),
The new BuyDomains 2.0? You play hard. Good luck! :xf.cool:


I believe that Mr. Twiki will reconsider his ideas when he sees that is again selling 30 domains per month on a recurring basis. I'm sure he will be back with a smile on his face :)
 
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Mytz.com

Domain [email protected] PITE.com GOZI.com JALI.com TOPU.comTop Member
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The problem you mentioned is not just a problem in the domain name industry,
The current state of the global economy is very bad,
The epidemic has been going on for many years,
It has severely hit various industries,
Just imagine if the market for domain names is not good, will other industries become better?
I have met many friends who have entered the real industry to start their own businesses in recent years,
Now we have to worry about store rent and employees' salaries every month,
I have seen a person who made a lot of money on domain names at that time reinvest in BTC,
At present, the loss of ten cents is gone
 
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twiki

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The problem you mentioned is not just a problem in the domain name industry,
The current state of the global economy is very bad,
The epidemic has been going on for many years,
It has severely hit various industries,
Just imagine if the market for domain names is not good, will other industries become better?
I have met many friends who have entered the real industry to start their own businesses in recent years,
Now we have to worry about store rent and employees' salaries every month,
I have seen a person who made a lot of money on domain names at that time reinvest in BTC,
At present, the loss of ten cents is gone

This is true.

However there are multiple ways one can make money, domaining is only one of them. I happen to have had activated and I still activate in other fields as well. ( Edit: commerce, software, marketing. )

Some, done right, are safer and more profitable even in more difficult times. The secret is to find particular ways to provide value while spending less. I'm good at that in general. (Edit: Services are easier in such times rather than trade, and require far less money usually; but you have to focus on the right ones.)

Also, this crisis is an opportunity for reinvention. I'm in my 50's now but I feel young and have strength so I welcome that challenge.

I'm still going to hold domains but in a different manner, on a smaller scale though.
 
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topdom

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When economy gets bad, when sending your outbound email, tell potential buyers that, only reason their business is failing is that, they don't have a good domain (such as, whatever you are selling). Also mention a recent multimillion sale. Result: You create one more domainer.

A big problem: how to quit. I mean sell all cheap, and quit. But I think it can't happen either. Whoever sees that you are willing to sell cheap, will know that that domain will be available for reg fee soon.
I wonder whether there are any bulk buyers. Someone (Godaddy, Hugedomains,..) who would pay 5 percent of actual potential/appraisal.

You can make 100K profit and then what: scale up?: it may hurt when you have to pay 80k of it on renewals.
You may not want to renew, but, they were all in "must renew list" last year, so, what changed since then, nothing.
 
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twiki

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last year, so, what changed since then, nothing.
I agree with the rest (more or less), but this one doesn't stick.

A lot has changed.

There is no fast, easy, profitable exit if one is looking for that, I think.
 
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Dear twiki,
thank you for sharing your plans with us. Interesting ideas.
I can suggest to evaluate if the market is interested and willing to pay for a tool before investing on it.
Moreover there are premium tools sold for few dollars on seo group buy.
Another point is competition: suppose you want to build a domain evaluator. Are you sure you can compete with an establish tool like estibot?

A big difference of the domain business compared to other businesses is that buyers are looking for your domains while it's your task to look for buyers in traditional businesses.

The introduction of ngTLDs has increased the offer; we must take this into account and adapt.

I'm not an expert in domain sales but I can confirm that domain parking is performing well in the last years.
 
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twiki

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editing
 
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twiki

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Dear twiki,
thank you for sharing your plans with us. Interesting ideas.
I can suggest to evaluate if the market is interested and willing to pay for a tool before investing on it.
Hi, I am rewriting the comment as it went out unfinished.

Thanks for your comment. Please note that my tech is not just for domaining, that is actually a small part of it.

Also, I have launched startups in the past and I know the drill well. Besides I don't need to invest as I already have these, just a bit of work to make them public. All the tech I will be going online with is stuff I have been working on for years for my own purposes and for research for such future plans.
Moreover there are premium tools sold for few dollars on seo group buy.
Sure thing, there will always be. I don't care.

Another point is competition: suppose you want to build a domain evaluator. Are you sure you can compete with an establish tool like estibot?
My tool is far better than Estibot. (edit: I admit, I am biased... anyway) Sorry, I don't want to bash Estibot which is a good service but I think their appraisal tool is the weakest of them all. The others they have are much better.

In fact I used Estibot originally to prefilter domains by value and found it extremely lacking. So my appraiser was built actually as a reaction to the dissatisfaction I had with Estibot. (Edit: and used for years, and still used for personal tasks).

A big difference of the domain business compared to other businesses is that buyers are looking for your domains while it's your task to look for buyers in traditional businesses.

The introduction of ngTLDs has increased the offer; we must take this into account and adapt.
It's not that. The demand is growing higher than the offer even with all nTLDs.

These are more difficult times but we'll see.

My intentions to quit were not just financial related, as I said I have other reasons to consider. Meanwhile, I'm not quitting however but rather pivoting the model.
I'm not an expert in domain sales but I can confirm that domain parking is performing well in the last years.
I'm not interested in parking but it can be an option for certain users. However for smaller scale income I'd say. Developing is probably better than parking especially that renewal fees get not to be such a burden.
 
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BeingDomainInvestor

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If I had a large amount of money, I would invest it in any manufacturing business. I am doing domaining just to rise money. when I will have a big investment, I will put it in a physical business. You all can either agree or disagree with my opinion. I appreciate your thoughts.
 
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topdom

Top Member
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Parking: You can park at Sedo, get 10K visits, and 100 clicks, and earn 0.
PPC was profitable in early days of adsense. Not before, not after, just in those (about) 7 years.
It was like being early .com or crypto investor, or buying meta domains.
There is bigger scam in parking, than selling domains, so I think, if you say, I have 10K domains,
and 100K visits per day, so I would make 100 per day,..you are totally wrong. You can make 1 on some days,
and you will never reach minimum payout amount.
 
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lock

FREE.MARKETINGTop Member
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Pricing would be top reason domains aren't selling and ease of contact but the thing with domains. If you have an idea you sell it. Sometimes you have enough faith and invest further into it yourself and become end user. If going to quit them make one of the great ideas happen.
 
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WNC HOLDINGS

wnc.holdingsEstablished Member
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Existentialism.horse.... - .wtf

I guess it is the thrill of the chase...like a beautiful woman...and now you have her and yet you tire of the everyday monotony...she's a 9 out of 10 but such high maintenance...phew!!!

Life can sometimes make no sense at all or it makes complete sense. There are too many tragic tales through history of those that thought that they were on to the next big thing, a sure fire hit. A dead cert. Do you know who really made the money during the gold rush? The guy selling picks and shovels. Go figure..right.

You're probably a bit bored too. It happens. I'd say get better and richer (if that is your true motivation) doing what you already know and aspire to go on to greater things. Life is too short to worry about what may have been or what opportunities you may miss out on.

Personally, I wake up every day and the first thing I think of is domains and it is the last thing that I do everyday. Check one last time whether I've made a sale or not. The adrenaline keeps me hard...at it. I love everything about it. It is what drives me to become totally financially independent and never having to go back to working for a living. This isn't work. Its way too much fun.

Sometimes in life you just have to take your foot off the gas for a while and slow down a little and stop and smell the roses and reflect truly on what is important and what is not.

Everyone has their own journey and as we have never walked a mile in your shoes we can only guess the journey that brought you to where you are today. We should be grateful for the opportunity that being a domain name investor gives us and maybe if you are not happy anymore then you should just go and do something else. Be a llama farmer or a beekeeper but do it well and wake each day and just be happy.

The only guarantee in this life is that there are no guarantees.

Rgrds,

Redd
Well stated.
 
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