ATTN REGISTRARS! it.com domain sunrise starts on Jan 2nd! GET READY NOW

For some reason, I've been thinking of quitting domaining recently. Yeah - go figure. I'm sharing the thoughts, feel free to share yours.

Catch.Club

twiki

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That doesn't mean it's not making money for me. It is. But it's not record-breaking stuff. Though it has better ROI than some other stuff I have currently.

That doesn't mean it consumes a ton of my time. It doesn't - or at least not anymore. I've streamlined stuff. I can get away with as little as 15 minutes a day if I want to. OR take 2 weeks off - completely if I want.

That doesn't mean I won't be holding domain names anymore. I will - some, my best ones. The others? I'd probably either clear or let them drop.

As one of the most frequent posters in the sales thread: You didn't see this coming from me, right?

But there are reasons I'm considering it. I'm sharing my thoughts, please change my mind. Or not.

What is currently changing my ideas:

- I don't like the current status of the market. I've never seen summer days so empty - in the sales thread. And in my own sales.

I'm making a good ROI, was expected to go past 100% soon (edit: might be there already) and past 100K profit per annum - next year. But it looks as if it doesn't get there. The world is going south - economically.

Edit: 100% annual ROI is not very good in business. Stock size vs. earnings I mean It means your stock rotation time is 6 months, which is not great. Say I have $50k in domains, I make $100k in sales, pocket $50k, that's 100% ROI and 6 months rotation.

- It does require investment. Money you keep locked in your names.

So for example with Dotible (my recent project in the sig) I have low costs and high margin - just like most tech startups would do. Domains aren't that. To make $100k you probably need $50k -$100k in assets (unless you are one of the older top domainers who have very good names).

I'd rather swing my investment towards less risk, more reward areas. Such as tech projects as the aforementioned one.

- It's a positive-feedback business, economically. That's not good right now. What I mean here is: If the economy prospers, you get more money; but if things go south, less domains are being sold. That's the positive feedback. And the downtrend has been already visible in 2022 although the business is still working and some are going quite well. But not everyone.

Things are going south worldwide as you know. I can see the writing on the wall.

In such times, good business is either 1) corporate that is solid and won't probably be touched, 2) small business but with very small cost and overhead, you just simply go ahead, or 3) negative feedback ones.

Example for 3: Repairs, pawn shops/loans or whatnot - anything a person would need in times when cash is low so they need to save or borrow etc. Domains are not of this kind.

I'm thinking of cutting a lot of the overhead, keep a minimal portfolio, have it automated... then off to new things and especially one meeting above criteria: negative feedback business OR high margin / in demand stuff, or catering to enterprise customers that would continue to be just fine in such times.

So what do you think? About what I posted above. Feel free to approve it, or criticize this, or maybe offer me some ideas (hopefully) and most importantly share your thoughts. They will be appreciated nevertheless.

P.S. Oh, and please note I'm also not scared or a quitter or whatnot. I do have good planing in general in business, and my instincts and experience tell me this is a turning point. Now. End of August 2022.
 
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twiki

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Also, @VadimK

By looking at your sig, apart from the 4-letter .com, there is a ton of similar stuff not taken at drop.

I was also talking only about 4-figs. In 3-fig? Lot of stuff to sell. I just don't go for that anymore. For example good geo domains, everyday niches, and countless niches I don't go into.
 
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twiki

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24,220
Fair enough. That was my reply to a very initial post, I didn't read all the replies and conversation on this thread. Now I see you introduced your website, and will definitely take a detailed look. (y)(y)
It's not much there yet, not impressive at all yet; but it will be I think.

(Edit: once I get to work enough on it, for now I'm moving a warehouse to another location, this is an unrelated brick and mortar biz, so it's been crazy and had limited time these days)

I'm still trying to prioritize which tools I put there as there is a list of features to add, the length of an entire novel.

Have about 300 million names in my database, that will be enhanced with other data and various new tools launched. And that's not the entire thing, just a corner of it.
 
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VadimK

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3,351
Also, @VadimK

By looking at your sig, apart from the 4-letter .com, there is a ton of similar stuff not taken at drop.

I was also talking only about 4-figs. In 3-fig? Lot of stuff to sell. I just don't go for that anymore. For example good geo domains, everyday niches, and countless niches I don't go into.

This sig I put up many months ago and never changed ever since (2 times, when sold names, replacing) - so, it's not my best names (what's the point to advertise best to domainers? I need no ''reseller'' sales) , however I obviously disagree that there are ''tons of similar stuff'' . Bring me a sample of anything decent with ''crypto'' or ''art'' at drops - no way you have a somewhat close to good combination. Same with any clean ''two words'' or GEO... Brandables - yes, of course cause anything can be brandable in theory.
 
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twiki

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24,220
This sig I put up many months ago and never changed ever since (2 times, when sold names, replacing) - so, it's not my best names (what's the point to advertise best to domainers? I need no ''reseller'' sales) , however I obviously disagree that there are ''tons of similar stuff'' . Bring me a sample of anything decent with ''crypto'' or ''art'' at drops - no way you have a somewhat close to good combination. Same with any clean ''two words'' or GEO... Brandables - yes, of course cause anything can be brandable in theory.

Define "good combination"?

What kind of price are you looking at, and what is the sales ratio you're looking at? ( there are names which carry value but might take longer to sell)
 
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twiki

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24,220
@VadimK

Also - use your logic

If there were no such names left at drop, or just a few as you say. Would you have ever seen my countless drop sales?

All those have been taken via the same method. That's how I built my portfolio.

I don't pay DC and the others a single dime. (Edit: Otherwise it would have cost me a kidney)

I buy at reg fee and look for cheap but decent pricing.

I have only about a couple hundred closeouts and some regs I'm dropping. 95% of my sales are drops.
 
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VadimK

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Define "good combination"?

What kind of price are you looking at, and what is the sales ratio you're looking at? ( there are names which carry value but might take longer to sell)

@twiki , man, don't turn the conversation around. You said with an exception of 4-letter, there are ''tons of similar stuff'' - go ahead, bring samples of still non-taken crypto, art and Country-Geo names that are still hanging there. I never attacked any of your personal names, that was a bad idea to go to mines (even I agree they are definitely not the best ones I have).

Also - use your logic

If there were no such names left at drop, or just a few as you say. Would you have ever seen my countless drop sales?

Do you really want to calculate the ratio of your reported sales to your overall portfolio size to to see that currently it's way below 1%? (I know the market is down, but again, it's towards of your claim of TONS good, sellable names, many of which you don't even pick up).
 
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twiki

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@twiki , man, don't turn the conversation around. You said with an exception of 4-letter, there are ''tons of similar stuff'' - go ahead, bring samples of still non-taken crypto, art and Country-Geo names that are still hanging there. I never attacked any of your personal names, that was a bad idea to go to mines (even I agree they are definitely not the best ones I have).



Do you really want to calculate the ratio of your reported sales to your overall portfolio size to to see that currently it's way below 1%? (I know the market is down, but again, it's towards of your claim of TONS good, sellable names, many of which you don't even pick up).

I'm not turning against nobody, less against you. Sorry you feel like that, which I don't understand.

Unsure why you felt I am attacking your names? I haven't said they are bad. I've said there are similar ones getting dropped on a daily basis.

Besides that isn't the subject of the thread. And I don't care if someone believes me or not, you or anyone else.

This is where I stop giving away any information here on Namepros. Thanks for letting me make this decision. I'm only getting but shit lately, for no reason whatsoever.

Consider I'm dumb and have provided crap all this time. It's alright.

No more replies will be made to this thread from me.
 
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Robert27

Established Member
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345
Everything I have read says that its going to be bad economically for atleast two years so for me is just about staying in the the game until things pick up.
Thank you Twiki for all your posts.
 
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golan

GolanMedia.comTop Member
Impact
8,903
Over 4 years and not even a lowball offer or fake offer. I'm constantly on here or twitter trying to get exposure for my names . I know everyone says patience but I've had a few of these names from the beginning. And yes there's a lot of crap there too but a few of them should have received some kind of offer by now. It's demoralising and hard to keep pressing on for zero reward. I'm extremely busy at work too so don't have much time to do any more than I already do. I admit I only have 6 I will renew forever or until sold . Anyway back to the day job for me. Hope you guys have a fantastic day 😀
Because your domains are sh*t, bro. I remember everyone here said it to you few years ago, and here i logged in to the forum again but you are still owning crap. You seem to be a nice guy, but it seems you just don't learn, you can't put yourself at the buyer's place, think like a buyer, understand what buyers need. What business on the Earth would want to call themselves NTTED? And not for reg fee but for $2k. Give me a break. Maybe domaining is not for you, it's nothing bad or wrong with it, just find yourself another hobby.
Name Liquidate also seems dead. Not sure if you have a better experience..
Not at all. I'm getting hundreds bucks every months liquidating there.
 
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Here are some tips to weather out the storm:

Have a well-balanced portfolio
Billions of dollars are made in recessions, depressions, and even pandemics. A well-balanced portfolio includes future and current trends. People will still spend money, find the right niches.

Target the rich
Everyday people may be hoarding their money, but people with wealth are spending it. Target higher tier industries and people with wealth. Price domains accordingly.

Target the broke
Regular folks may be buying less, but they are still buying. Target them with low priced names and collect from the bottom of the barrel. With enough quantity, you can still make profit.

Drop the uglies
If you have a large portfolio, liquidate the names you've been on the fence on. Who cares how much you paid or how many years the name is aged. If you can, sell it, if you can't, drop it.

Long-term or short term?
Decide whether you are selling for the long-term or short term. Are you making quick flips and hope to make your money quickly? Then, shorten your portfolio and blast out calls and e-mails. Selling long-term? Have some patience. If you're planning on holding your names for years to come, then the economy right now, or for the next few years, is not a big concern.

Explore other revenue generating ventures, or get a part-time job
If you are not getting any sales, focus on your other skills that are in demand. Learn programming. Maybe get a job at a coffee shop. Whatever it takes to get some money coming in monthly to pay your bills.

Know it'll be okay
We've weathered these storms before. The .com bubble, the financial crisis, the pandemic. No one thought the world would recover. The truth is, people will always need domain names as long as we have internet. What the pandemic has shown us is that people are resilient and the internet always comes back full-swing.
 
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StartupsBrandsCom

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Do you know who really made the money during the gold rush? The guy selling picks and shovels. Go figure..right.
It is the oversimplification context, it should have determent "in the end" as expression is referring toward industrialization and engineering since. Anyhow it seems logical as in any inclusive development and competitions through civilizations.
 
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zomainhacks

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Know it'll be okay
We've weathered these storms before. The .com bubble, the financial crisis, the pandemic. No one thought the world would recover. The truth is, people will always need domain names as long as we have internet. What the pandemic has shown us is that people are resilient and the internet always comes back full-swing.
Hope you're right, started observing the domain market in late 2020 so I don't have a practical taste of how things can change during a recession.

So far my impression is that things slowed a bit but the cake is still there and considering the high level of uncertainty in the global markets domains are not performing so badly.

Did you were involved in domains during the 2008-2009 financial crisis? How reacted the domain market back then?
 
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Did you were involved in domains during the 2008-2009 financial crisis? How reacted the domain market back then?
That is when I got heavily into domain investing. Bad markets often create opportunities.

Brad
 
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Reddstagg

The-Billionaire.comTop Member
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It is the oversimplification context, it should have determent "in the end" as expression is referring toward industrialization and engineering since. Anyhow it seems logical as in any inclusive development and competitions through civilizations.
I have absolutely no idea what you just said...it must be fluent intellectualese...keep it simple mate...I'm a bit tick loike!!!
 
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Edukar

Established Member
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Do not despair. Let everything be in its own way. You cannot derive your assets from the domain business promptly. Even if you significantly reduce prices. Do a new business and do domaining as a hobby. I started very late, almost without investment, manually buying one or two domain per month and made the first sale when the total number of my domains exceeded a hundred. Last year I had only 200 domains, I bought another 200 for a year without using personal funds, but payed new domain registrations from the percentage of sales. Over the past six months, I have sold only 2 domains, but this fits into an average of 1%. I am still interested that. For me, the main thing is that I am so still in the plus. This is not enough for a decent life, but it is a little progress. Even in such a difficult time. We live in a digital century. The domain is a passport of any company. And everyone needs passports at this stage of civilization. Remember this.
 
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Thanks for being open and starting the thread @twiki and for all you contribute in reflections to NamePros.

This discussion has turned a lot of corners, but here are a few of my own thoughts, mainly on the OP and some of the early discussion.

1. I think it may well be a challenging period economically in domains for some months or possibly longer. There are economic issues in general, and that will carry through. It may create opportunities, as several people mentioned, but it will be challenging.

2. There was a big acceleration in domain names and online during first year of pandemic. That has meant that it is natural there will be lowered demand now for awhile. There will still be opportunities, but they will be different from a couple of years ago. Probably the people with names people upgrade to will be best off.

3. I think the way many well-known domainers got into NFTs has created a link between the two that is not natural to my thinking, perhaps too simple. I think the road for NFTs will continue to be wildly volatile and it is not good to be dragged into that.

4. Many things are better decentralized. I am not sure that decentralized domains are one of them. A well-run centralized system, with appropriate guides and controls, is best for domain names in my opinion. The trades in decentralized represent a lot of money. Some of the opportunities and problems have created in end user eyes uncertainty in domain names in general. Not good and I don't see way out of it soon. I may be wrong. Most very smart domain people I admire are into decentralized domains to some degree. Just expressing my own opinion here.

5. I think the domain industry is ripe for genuine innovation that end users will see resulting in something better for them. I hope it happens.

6. I don't think we should overlook the impact of the renewal rate increases. The two .com increases so far 'just' represent a bit over 14% increase, but I think the economics are such that many investors, with a 14 or 15% difference move from making a modest amount to losing. The main other domainer extensions have either gone up, .xyz and .co and before that .io, or are about to, .net with 10% rise early in new year. Many people need to be really wise re what to renew, and try to build a better, but perhaps smaller, portfolio.

7. There are people, including relatively new investors, building portfolios and doing very well. I think there is no time, though, that it is necessary to have a clear plan, be disciplined, and be educated on many topics. I truly admire people who have done their own thing successfully. Double thanks to those who have shared along the way.

8. Thinking aloud changes in direction always a good thing. I read Twiki original post as this. He says repeatedly he is not getting out of domains, but perhaps less emphasis. Most balance several businesses or investment interests. Nothing wrong with changing how much time goes into domaining.

Thanks again Twiki.

Bob
 
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DomainRecap

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4,412
The domain market is tough right now and will likely just get tougher.

The economy is tanking, a recession looms and end-user sales aren't what they used to be. Add to that record-breaking wholesale prices on top expired domains and domaining can be a rather daunting experience.

Personally, I am buying less, paying less for what I do buy and just being satisfied with what manage to get. I think it's very dangerous to be playing with the whales right now if you don't have, or no longer have, that type of massive influx of domain sales revenue to support it.

Adapt or die.
 
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That doesn't mean it's not making money for me. It is. But it's not record-breaking stuff. Though it has better ROI than some other stuff I have currently.

That doesn't mean it consumes a ton of my time. It doesn't - or at least not anymore. I've streamlined stuff. I can get away with as little as 15 minutes a day if I want to. OR take 2 weeks off - completely if I want.

That doesn't mean I won't be holding domain names anymore. I will - some, my best ones. The others? I'd probably either clear or let them drop.

As one of the most frequent posters in the sales thread: You didn't see this coming from me, right?

But there are reasons I'm considering it. I'm sharing my thoughts, please change my mind. Or not.

What is currently changing my ideas:

- I don't like the current status of the market. I've never seen summer days so empty - in the sales thread. And in my own sales.

I'm making a good ROI, was expected to go past 100% soon (edit: might be there already) and past 100K profit per annum - next year. But it looks as if it doesn't get there. The world is going south - economically.

Edit: 100% annual ROI is not very good in business. Stock size vs. earnings I mean It means your stock rotation time is 6 months, which is not great. Say I have $50k in domains, I make $100k in sales, pocket $50k, that's 100% ROI and 6 months rotation.

- It does require investment. Money you keep locked in your names.

So for example with Dotible (my recent project in the sig) I have low costs and high margin - just like most tech startups would do. Domains aren't that. To make $100k you probably need $50k -$100k in assets (unless you are one of the older top domainers who have very good names).

I'd rather swing my investment towards less risk, more reward areas. Such as tech projects as the aforementioned one.

- It's a positive-feedback business, economically. That's not good right now. What I mean here is: If the economy prospers, you get more money; but if things go south, less domains are being sold. That's the positive feedback. And the downtrend has been already visible in 2022 although the business is still working and some are going quite well. But not everyone.

Things are going south worldwide as you know. I can see the writing on the wall.

In such times, good business is either 1) corporate that is solid and won't probably be touched, 2) small business but with very small cost and overhead, you just simply go ahead, or 3) negative feedback ones.

Example for 3: Repairs, pawn shops/loans or whatnot - anything a person would need in times when cash is low so they need to save or borrow etc. Domains are not of this kind.

I'm thinking of cutting a lot of the overhead, keep a minimal portfolio, have it automated... then off to new things and especially one meeting above criteria: negative feedback business OR high margin / in demand stuff, or catering to enterprise customers that would continue to be just fine in such times.

So what do you think? About what I posted above. Feel free to approve it, or criticize this, or maybe offer me some ideas (hopefully) and most importantly share your thoughts. They will be appreciated nevertheless.

P.S. Oh, and please note I'm also not scared or a quitter or whatnot. I do have good planing in general in business, and my instincts and experience tell me this is a turning point. Now. End of August 2022.
It's good to see you have atleast a 100% ROI. Is that net or after renewals, hosting, taxes and other overhead?

While 100% ROI isn't huge, if it's covering all your overhead and bringing profit into the green, consistently month to month, it may be worth assigning or onboarding an operator to manage that aspect of the venture, to keep it thriving, while you focus on scaling it better, diversifying your portfolio, or other ventures, then circle back to it to scale it later (That's what I just did = circled back and scaled/leveled up).

In any of the above cases, while it does make since to clean up and potentially scale down a portfolio, if you scale down too much, too fast, it could throw off your diversity balance, creating a pothole to fall in when the markets shift back in your favor again for that specific ventures asset(s) in you portfolio.

That's just my opinion though. Everyone's different.

I'm surprised I don't see more posts from you in the insiders lounge (accessible to VIPs and Gold members)
 
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I understand! I've been domaining for more than 20 years now, and what you're going through isn't new to anybody that has been at it for a long time. Making 100k as you mentioned in your post is a great feat in domaining. Truth be told, few ever do that. Sure, the economy is in a slump. The real economic indicators -- the ones economists used to look at before all this political correctness like the 10 year Treasury and two quarters in a row being down on consumer buying are already indicating a recession. It's a cycle. We've seen it before and we'll see it again. Bigger Booms come with bigger busts! Hold on to your good names my friend or sell them cheap to me! ...LOL... Good luck with whatever you decide.
 
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twiki

Top Member
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24,220
It's good to see you have atleast a 100% ROI. Is that net or after renewals, hosting, taxes and other overhead?

While 100% ROI isn't huge, if it's covering all your overhead and bringing profit into the green, consistently month to month, it may be worth assigning or onboarding an operator to manage that aspect of the venture, to keep it thriving, while you focus on scaling it better, diversifying your portfolio, or other ventures, then circle back to it to scale it later (That's what I just did = circled back and scaled/leveled up).

In any of the above cases, while it does make since to clean up and potentially scale down a portfolio, if you scale down too much, too fast, it could throw off your diversity balance, creating a pothole to fall in when the markets shift back in your favor again for that specific ventures asset(s) in you portfolio.

That's just my opinion though. Everyone's different.

I'm surprised I don't see more posts from you in the insiders lounge (accessible to VIPs and Gold members)
Please note I no longer post on NP except advertising kind (my projects, see the signature), sales reports and rare minor comments like this one.

To your comment (thanks) I wanted to reply this:

- Never saw anything interesting in the insiders lounge. Not for me. ( I will obviously not post anything there anyway, given the limited NP presence I have from now on. )

- I have ~ 150% ROI in 2022. It is profit but not perfect. Yes, net profit after ALL expenses from a to z.

Future will tell. For the moment I am still buying domains, have found ways to multiply my ROI a lot by tuning the portfolio and pricing.
 
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branding

Private InvestorTop Member
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9,254
Love you're building towards your endgoal. Your perfect place and location to settle for life.

Interesting thread btw. Don't despair. Adaption to current circumstances is obviously needed but recognise your strong points and build from that to a brighter future.

Trust yourself, your knowledge and your instincts. You will succeed if you put your mind to it.

You have been an inspiration to me and I would bet a whole lot of other domainers. Thank you for that and I wish you well on your journey in domaining and life in general which is so much more import.

Thank you!
 
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LoveCatchyDomains

Daring to LiveTop Member
Impact
1,769
- I have ~ 150% ROI in 2022. It is profit but not perfect. Yes, net profit after ALL expenses from a to z.
Mahy I ask about how many hours a week do you think this took to accomplish your respectable ROI?
Also, please note that I will miss some of your feisty comments on NamePros. You do sometimes help liven up the discussions.
Finally, thanks for all the insights and advice you have provided on Namepros, and for continuing to share your experience.
 
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- Never saw anything interesting in the insiders lounge. Not for me. ( I will obviously not post anything there anyway, given the limited NP presence I have from now on. )
What about a level deeper than the insiders lounge, such as, the Professional Appraisals section? For example, this more recent professional appraisal levels up all previous appraisals and sets a whole new bar on domain asset value data collection and research: https://www.namepros.com/threads/i-purchase-com-keep-or-drop.1283853/ - (Note: The link is only accessible by VIP and Gold members)

There's a few people that like to read those with their morning coffee, for both entertainment and educational purposes. Did you know there were 34+ IP (Intellectual Property) evaluation methodologies? :)

I get it though, Every decade or so, I burn out and need a refresh and purge before jumping back into the deep end of the swimming pool. I'm rotating back in while it looks like you are thinking of rotating out. Just keep in mind, even when on outer rotation to focus on other ventures and scaling, it's handy to keep at least one finger on the pulse of a constantly changing industry, to stay in the loop, so your rotation back in later (when ready) is smoother.

In my opinion, If there's only 1 thing you do moving forward to stay connected to the pulse (While scaling your ventures), reading entertaining and educational hand crafted/original domain asset evaluations, leveraging the Intellectual property evaluation methodologies, just seems like a good add to the arsenal of industry reading materials.

Personally, I think the professional appraisal section is worth clicking the "Watch Section" link for automated alerts. Maybe even a bookmark.

At any rate, regardless what you decide or where in your rotation you are, I wish you and your ventures the best of success.
 
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twiki

Top Member
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24,220
What about a level deeper than the insiders lounge, such as, the Professional Appraisals section? For example, this more recent professional appraisal levels up all previous appraisals and sets a whole new bar on domain asset value data collection and research: https://www.namepros.com/threads/i-purchase-com-keep-or-drop.1283853/ - (Note: The link is only accessible by VIP and Gold members)

There's a few people that like to read those with their morning coffee, for both entertainment and educational purposes. Did you know there were 34+ IP (Intellectual Property) evaluation methodologies? :)

I get it though, Every decade or so, I burn out and need a refresh and purge before jumping back into the deep end of the swimming pool. I'm rotating back in while it looks like you are thinking of rotating out. Just keep in mind, even when on outer rotation to focus on other ventures and scaling, it's handy to keep at least one finger on the pulse of a constantly changing industry, to stay in the loop, so your rotation back in later (when ready) is smoother.

In my opinion, If there's only 1 thing you do moving forward to stay connected to the pulse (While scaling your ventures), reading entertaining and educational hand crafted/original domain asset evaluations, leveraging the Intellectual property evaluation methodologies, just seems like a good add to the arsenal of industry reading materials.

Personally, I think the professional appraisal section is worth clicking the "Watch Section" link for automated alerts. Maybe even a bookmark.

At any rate, regardless what you decide or where in your rotation you are, I wish you and your ventures the best of success.
Thanks, but we are all different. I'm totally not interested in any of that insider thread stuff.

TBH I probably did alright in domaining. But far less than I could have done in another field (tech). For me it's not sufficient.

I'm reducing my financial footprint (investment) while moving focus to something else.

As I said, for me domaining will be secondary from now on.
 
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StartupsBrandsCom

Established Member
Impact
40
I have absolutely no idea what you just said...it must be fluent intellectualese...keep it simple mate...I'm a bit tick loike!!!
Ok, i was bit out of context, and tried reaffirming old quotes you re-posted about gold rush game changing - in the end. Still, nowadays are many overlooked developing industries (new innovative companies on stock markets) that sadly most of the society are screened-off during some, more or less, systemic inadequacies. Mr. Rob Monster has one the rare domaining collective materialization idea as domains in form of banking/stock/liquid assets.
 
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