Fake PayPal claim after payment for CCNYS.COM domain name

[Dondomainer]

I will not beat around the bush, this is the real buyer information.

Buyer Name: Milton Silber
Buyer Email: [email protected]
Transaction Amount: $850.00 USD
Transaction Date: Sep 4, 2016

( Phone Number : 347-668-9186 )

Buyer's Address:
183 wilson st
Brooklyn , NY 11211
United States

Claim datail.

The buyer has filed a chargeback with his or her credit card company stating that the buyer did not authorize the payment.

The credit card company has reversed the payment, and we've placed a temporary hold on the funds while we review this case. If this transaction is covered by protection against unauthorized payments, we'll lift the temporary hold and restore the funds to your account. If the transaction is not eligible, we'll return the funds to the buyer or the rightful owner.

For this transaction to be covered by protection against unauthorized payments, please provide proof that you shipped the item through an approved shipper to the address on the Transaction Details page.

If the item is not a tangible good, this transaction is not eligible for protection against unauthorized payments. However, depending on the information you provide, we may be able to help you recover your funds by disputing the chargeback with the credit card company. Please provide us with information about your case. We'll let you know if we can dispute the chargeback with the credit card company.

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But what Mr Milton Silber forgets, is the reason of payment.

 

[alcy]

I have never been able to win any chargeback scams. Both physical and virtual goods. Tracking number, pictures, screenshots, any proof possible... they don't care.

eCop is quick and easy for low $xxx to low $x,xxx sales. They do escrow just like escrow.com but unlike escrow.com they accept paypal from other countries than US and Canada.

so what happens on ecop when they pay using paypal and then file chargeback? u get ecop seller protection like from escrow.com that stub just mentioned?

 

[Name Trader]

I have never been able to win any chargeback scams. Both physical and virtual goods. Tracking number, pictures, screenshots, any proof possible... they don't care.

eCop is quick and easy for low $xxx to low $x,xxx sales. They do escrow just like escrow.com but unlike escrow.com they accept paypal from other countries than US and Canada.

If you've never won any charge backs using eCop. then they do not work like escrow.com who doesn't charge back to the seller

 

[BrandChimp]

so what happens on ecop when they pay using paypal and then file chargeback? u get ecop seller protection like from escrow.com that stub just mentioned?

Yes, the buyer at eCop can't file a charge back against you because eCop is the one who pays you. not the buyer directly.

 

[BrandChimp]

If you've never won any charge backs using eCop. then they do not work like escrow.com who doesn't charge back to the seller

I never had charge back with eCop

 

[BrandChimp]

I forgot to add,

WITH PAYPAL
I have never been able to win any chargeback scams. Both physical and virtual goods. Tracking number, pictures, screenshots, any proof possible... they don't care.

 

[Name Trader]

Yes, the buyer at eCop can't file a charge back against you because eCop is the one who pays you. not the buyer directly.

So where is it you've lost all your chargebacks? I'm confused?

 

[BrandChimp]

So where is it you've lost all your chargebacks? I'm confused?

using paypal directly with the buyers

 

[Name Trader]

using paypal directly with the buyers

OK. So now I understand

 

[alcy]

anyone here knows if the service type payments on paypal can also have chargeback on them? I know buyer cannot file item not received or not as described on those.

 

[Name Trader]

anyone here knows if the service type payments on paypal can also have chargeback on them? I know buyer cannot file item not received or not as described on those.

But I presume they could claim no service was provided? Or claim you mis-labeled your sale as a service?

 

[alcy]

But I presume they could claim no service was provided? Or claim you mis-labeled your sale as a service?

not sure... that's why I wondered if someone here had first hand experience when after paying as service for domain, a chargeback was attmpted and denied to buyer.

technically domains are more of a service than a shippable goods.. which they are not at all. and do not require shipping address etc when paying for them.

maybe one day paypal does something specifically for domain deals.. to better handle these deals... escrow like something maybe... after all, in the end of day, huge amounts of money go through payhpal for domain deals worldwide.

 

[alcy]

its too bad escrow.com does not offer paypal.
but if ecop offers it and alos offers seller protection asgainst chargeback, then this is an even better alternative than going through godaddy, cause as far as I know godaddy does not protect from chargebacks, and they just get you the domain back. but maybe @Joe Styler can confirm this? thank you.

 

[ZapNano]

not sure... that's why I wondered if someone here had first hand experience when after paying as service for domain, a chargeback was attmpted and denied to buyer.

technically domains are more of a service than a shippable goods.. which they are not at all. and do not require shipping address etc when paying for them.

maybe one day paypal does something specifically for domain deals.. to better handle these deals... escrow like something maybe... after all, in the end of day, huge amounts of money go through payhpal for domain deals worldwide.

Intangible, this is the term you might like.

 

[ZapNano]

Paypal might need to revise their current policy and procedures; in terms of providing fair and reasonable services to both parties. (Seller/ Buyer).
Buyer can be as crook as seller or vise versa. Leave feedback to PayPal maybe these kind of feedback will make them move.

 

[UncleBrand]

stolen identity and CC number, may be playing in this case

let me tell you a fun story, i used my sister CC to renew a domain name for a charity she's involved with,
and we paid some extra design service on an unsecured website
after one week we have been charged 1800British Pounds on the card, we asked for a chargeback,
and have to report it to the police station for the credit card insurance

1 month later we received the money back on the bank account + a check from the CC insurance company for a full amount
payment on the internet is far from a perfect science

 

[DNVantage]

one way to get around this I think (double check it) is taking a service payment instead of payment for goods. which a domain transfer essentially is anyway.. cause no shipping occurs, no physical goods involved..

How do you take service payment? Do you need a business Paypal account?

Send PayPal all the namecheap and Goddady transactions.

AFAIK, it wont matter as Paypal TOS does not cover domains.

This type of problem is the reason I have started listing my names at NameCheap marketplace and NameSilo marketplace. Flat 10% and 7.5% fees, no minimum. You can direct buyers to purchase there directly.

Though NameCheap marketplace is really difficult to use. You have to relist again and again plus the name listing url changes every time you list same domain, Quite impractical, as you have to go about updating this url at all places you are marketing your domain ( like Bodis ). It has been more than a year and still no change. I hope they fix it soon coz their live chat support is good and fees are reasonable.

Haven't sold yet thru NameSilo marketplace but I like their marketplace listing.

 

[alcy]

How do you take service payment? Do you need a business Paypal account?



AFAIK, it wont matter as Paypal TOS does not cover domains.

This type of problem is the reason I have started listing my names at NameCheap marketplace and NameSilo marketplace. Flat 10% and 7.5% fees, no minimum. You can direct buyers to purchase there directly.

Though NameCheap marketplace is really difficult to use. You have to relist again and again plus the name listing url changes every time you list same domain, Quite impractical, as you have to go about updating this url at all places you are marketing your domain ( like Bodis ). It has been more than a year and still no change. I hope they fix it soon coz their live chat support is good and fees are reasonable.

Haven't sold yet thru NameSilo marketplace but I like their marketplace listing.

service is aka family/friends send money payment.
I think they called it service in past. then renamed it. before I think it was just service vs goods payments.
so anyone can use it.
but like I said I am not sure if service payments protect you from chargeback. maybe.

I do not use namesilo market.. and I think namecheap is awful market. but let me understand.. are you saying that you are protected on those from buyer chargebacks if they pay with the Creditcard? how so? do those markets offer some kind of seller protection like escrow that we talked abotu?

 

[DNVantage]

At NameCheap (NC), seller can list the domains they have in their NC account and buyer needs a NC account to receive the domain. Domain is moved automatically from seller's account to buyer's account. NC holds payment for 5 days before depositing sale funds into seller's account.

I have not explicitly checked with NC or NameSilo (NS) about chargeback. My guess is, like other major marketplaces, they must have payment checks in place but please clarify with NC/ NS support .

NC/NS are charging a decent % flat fee on sale! It better not be for just listing domain and automatically moving domain from one account to another. Payment escrow + Domain escrow for just 10%/7.5% is why I prefer NC/NS marketplaces.

Also, my understanding is, from Dec 1, as per new ICANN policy, domains will not be allowed to transfer away for 60 days if whois contact info changes for any reason. This should help the marketplace sales as buyer cannot just move the domain away and do a chargeback immediately.

 

[alcy]

At NameCheap (NC), seller can list the domains they have in their NC account and buyer needs a NC account to receive the domain. Domain is moved automatically from seller's account to buyer's account. NC holds payment for 5 days before depositing sale funds into seller's account.

I have not explicitly checked with NC or NameSilo (NS) about chargeback. My guess is, like other major marketplaces, they must have payment checks in place but please clarify with NC/ NS support .

NC/NS are charging a decent % flat fee on sale! It better not be for just listing domain and automatically moving domain from one account to another. Payment escrow + Domain escrow for just 10%/7.5% is why I prefer NC/NS marketplaces.

Also, my understanding is, from Dec 1, as per new ICANN policy, domains will not be allowed to transfer away for 60 days if whois contact info changes for any reason. This should help the marketplace sales as buyer cannot just move the domain away and do a chargeback immediately.

well like we said here before, the whole point and problem of chargebacks is that they have nothing to do with payment checks namesilo or othes may do before releasing buyer payment to you... chargeback is something buyer has up to 6 months or so, to file with the CC company. and the company will listen to him and let him file. and will not care about namesilo or godaddy checks at all... of course in most causes there will not be chargebacks and everyone happy.. but this thread is not about most cases.

unless, like was again said before, u have big shot escrow services that simply offer you seller protectin.. escrow.com does it.. and apparently ecop too.. like others here said.. and if buyer files chargeback, they'll essentially pay from their own pocket to you for it. so sadly, there is no protection against chargeback with godaddy... and imo even less so with tiny markets like nc or ns.

60 day lock is an old policy. only applies to some whois changhes not all. and yes I agree it helps the chargeback policy, cause registar can rcover your domain (even if you lose money).. however, like i said chargeback deadlines are > than 60 days. cheers.

 

[DNVantage]

chargeback deadlines are > than 60 days. cheers.

You are right, it is not a full solution, but with new policy all registrars will need to disable transfer for 60 days if whois contact info changes, and marketplaces are better at mitigating chargeback issues compared to individuals, so it is a reasonable solution, better than using paypal to do transactions with strangers. The tech for payment check is fairly common now and not too costly for the amount of sales marketplaces do. I would be surprised if NC/NS and all other marketplaces don't have it automated for each of their high transaction sale.

btw, AFAIK, CC providers in all countries do not allow such a wide window for chargeback. In India it is about two statements, though it might vary depending on CC provider, and even than it is an uphill task to ask for a chargeback and now with the mandatory realtime OTP conformation per CC domestic transaction in India, the chargeback issue is almost moot. So knowing which country your buyer is from might help ( if it buyer is verified at paypal )

Anyway, I have never understood why have a 6 month window to allow chargeback! 2 or 3 is more than enough.

 

[alcy]

You are right, it is not a full solution, but with new policy all registrars will need to disable transfer for 60 days if whois contact info changes, and marketplaces are better at mitigating chargeback issues compared to individuals, so it is a reasonable solution, better than using paypal to do transactions with strangers. The tech for payment check is fairly common now and not too costly for the amount of sales marketplaces do. I would be surprised if NC/NS and all other marketplaces don't have it automated for each of their high transaction sale.

btw, AFAIK, CC providers in all countries do not allow such a wide window for chargeback. In India it is about two statements, though it might vary depending on CC provider, and even than it is an uphill task to ask for a chargeback and now with the mandatory realtime OTP conformation per CC domestic transaction in India, the chargeback issue is almost moot. So knowing which country your buyer is from might help ( if it buyer is verified at paypal )

Anyway, I have never understood why have a 6 month window to allow chargeback! 2 or 3 is more than enough.

60 day locks after sale/transfer is not some new policy at all.

I am sure more reputable and larger markets like gd take some extra steps to protect against payment retractions such as chargebacks. much more so than ns or nc imo.. and then possibly escrow.com may go even a step further, given they seem to offer full seller protection for cb, and pay from their pocket if it hapens... so checking more deeply would only be in their own best interest.

its my undersanding that all auction payment processing departments are not created equal. and some are better than others, go some extra steps etc. that being said, paypal has fantastic security measures implemented too... anti fraud etc.. best in the world probably... it's only the biggest payment processor in the world.. but there is only so much anyone can do against cc chargebacks.

like stub said, if you want full protection against chargeback, your only way may well be escrow.com .. or others with full seller protection.. unless we are all missing something about that seller protection here.. perhaps @Jackson Elsegood from escrow can confirm this seller protection works like some here say it does, in case of a CC chargeback from buyer.

thanks.

 

[Name Trader]

@alcy - What you don't believe me?

 

[alcy]

@alcy - What you don't believe me?

why make it personal Stub? who here wants to rely on "belief" when comes to transacting with domains, chargebacks and potentially losing a lot of money.

be glad you will hear it from the mouth of the beast, have it settled forever, and no one will ever come ask you for refund if any of it ever fails.

 

[Jackson Elsegood]

60 day locks after sale/transfer is not some new policy at all.

I am sure more reputable and larger markets like gd take some extra steps to protect against payment retractions such as chargebacks. much more so than ns or nc imo.. and then possibly escrow.com may go even a step further, given they seem to offer full seller protection for cb, and pay from their pocket if it hapens... so checking more deeply would only be in their own best interest.

its my undersanding that all auction payment processing departments are not created equal. and some are better than others, go some extra steps etc. that being said, paypal has fantastic security measures implemented too... anti fraud etc.. best in the world probably... it's only the biggest payment processor in the world.. but there is only so much anyone can do against cc chargebacks.

like stub said, if you want full protection against chargeback, your only way may well be escrow.com .. or others with full seller protection.. unless we are all missing something about that seller protection here.. perhaps @Jackson Elsegood from escrow can confirm this seller protection works like some here say it does, in case of a CC chargeback from buyer.

thanks.

All payments to a seller made through Escrow.com are safe from chargebacks and will not be reversed, even if the buyer tries to claim that they never received the domain (they have 6 months to do that with PayPal and most credit card companies).

 

[cdboard]

thanks for that info.