Estibot 2.0 official launch

[DomainingCom]

After a long beta period we are proud to present you the new version of Estibot.
A lot of improvements and new features have been added.

Thanks Esa and Luc for this great service.

 

[anon22339]

I give it a full thumbs up and am currently a $20 subscriber. Luc's customer support has been exceptional as well.

Of course, the appraisal is just an estimate based on the application of an algorithm or mathematical formula using statistically generated coefficients for each variable (I am assuming some form of statistical regression is being used). The dollar values generated should be considered directional only -- there is little precision in the results. But, it provides a helpful start for sifting through hundreds of domain names to quickly identify domain names worth investing a little more time for due diligence and one's own personal valuation using primary sources.

 

[Luc]

I give it a full thumbs up and am currently a $20 subscriber. Luc's customer support has been exceptional as well.

Of course, the appraisal is just an estimate based on the application of an algorithm or mathematical formula using statistically generated coefficients for each variable (I am assuming some form of statistical regression is being used). The dollar values generated should be considered directional only -- there is little precision in the results. But, it provides a helpful start for sifting through hundreds of domain names to quickly identify domain names worth investing a little more time for due diligence and one's own personal valuation using primary sources.

Thanks!!!

:tu:

 

[Tim Schoon]

I've ended my subscription.

The $5 monthly plan was great, 100domain batch, enduser search etc.
Now the $5 plan isn't much better than the free stuff, all I get is a measly 25 name search.
I'm not paying $40/mo for some info tool

I'm out.

 

[Ms Domainer]

*

I have no problem with Estibot wanting to make a profit. Isn't that what we all want? For years, these tools have been free, but now the owners simply want to recoup their costs and make a buck. Why not?

It costs money and labor to create such a detailed site, and if you use it a lot, then you need to pay for the resources that you use.

At least there is a free option for users, but if that eventually goes, then I'll understand, and I'll either pay or find another valuation site.

Life goes on.

*

 

[Carlton]

I am interested in whatever valuation metrics you are talking about...

I've got limited time this a.m. to provide examples, but let me illustrate the inconsistency in the valuations produced by estibot.

Let's use a basic model of city + apartments in the .com extension. Each of the cities below are major metropolitan American cities all comparable in size and nearly identical in their domain. Look at estibot's wild variations ...

AtlantaApartments.com $43,000
CharlotteApartments.com $37,000
MemphisApartments.com $2800
PhoenixApartments.com $5200

Furthermore, MemphisApartments.com actually sold for $12,101 but estibot does not know that. So it's "estimate" is roughly 25% of what the domain actually sold for.

I have a city + apartments.com domain that estibot values at $1000, although I have received an offer of $5000.

Examples such as the one above are plentiful. What do they illustrate? The conclusion is obvious.

This is not to diminish the work of the guys who created estibot. But it is extremely important that truth in advertising be clear. The general market are not knowledgeable of domain name values, and if people begin using estibot as some type of valuation tool, then we are going to have a horribly distorted market. Look again at the specific apartment examples above and think about the lack of validity inherent in the estibot valuations.

If you are a domain owner, you don't want the market buying into someone else's arbitrary figures applied to your domain assets. The page of stats that estibot produces in each valuation are certainly useful, and they are actually the only valid information estibot is replicating. The "valuation" has a strong disclaimer as well it should.

I am just concerned that the larger market will begin relying on estibot as its urban legend grows. People in threads here and elsewhere are quoting estibot valuations like its a defiinitive valuation tool. And therein lies the danger.

A huge number of domains have industry-specific and application-specific attributes that estibot cannot begin to account for. It takes a more complicated human analysis to arrive at a legitimtate price range than just plugging in the domain and having a number come out the other side.

Again, look at the examples above, realizing there are many thousands of similar discrepancies such as these. So should estibot be marketed as a true appraisal tool, or a general statistics database. My answer is a general statistics database. To sell estibot as a true appraisal tool is wrong imo.

 

[noy.com]

Estibot's valuation of some LLL.com at around 2K-3K (and I mean LLLs with 2 premium and 1 semipremium, e.g.) is ridiculuos. I had given them feedback couple of months ago and they sent me thanks note for the feedback, but still ignored it.

I wrote to them that I'd buy in bulk LLLs, if they can provide them to me at around the valuation they have given.

 

[MicroGuy]

I think choice is a good thing. :hi:

Subscriber losses can still be kept to a minimum by providing a link to the old interface. I'm not suggesting that this option be available forever, but for the near term you should have a link to the old interface to allow everyone time to adjust. I personally liked the old interface better.

 

[Carlton]

Another major problem is the weighting of various extensions against one another -> .com, .biz, .us, and many others. The developers have decided that a .biz/.info/.us/.net etc are some smaller % of the popular .com. Who decides this weighting and using what critieria?

There is obviously a formula at work which decides valuations based on the extension used. My research in this area finds many flaws. Why is this relevant?

Because estibot is assigning each domain a value in relation to its extension. There many examples of "alternate" (non-com) extensions being de-valued, often valuated at REG FEE when the corresponding .com version of the same domain is listed in 4 or 5 figures. That is ridiculous. What it demonstrates is that estibot is way, way overly weighted in favor of .com. This misrepresents any fair & realistic value of other (non-com) domain extensions.

Another seeming problem is that estibot appears to have not been adjusted to account for the release of single number or letter domains like Neustar just did with one character .biz domains. All those 2009 sales in 4 and 5 figures for .biz one character domains are not being factored. To the extent that estibot's results are based on past comps (which I am certain it is), then these kinds of omissions further detract from valuation estimation.

 

[Tim Schoon]

*

I have no problem with Estibot wanting to make a profit. Isn't that what we all want? For years, these tools have been free, but now the owners simply want to recoup their costs and make a buck. Why not?

It costs money and labor to create such a detailed site, and if you use it a lot, then you need to pay for the resources that you use.

At least there is a free option for users, but if that eventually goes, then I'll understand, and I'll either pay or find another valuation site.

Life goes on.

*

true, but the info estibot gives is all available elsewhere, just takes more info to find.
I was comfortable paying $5/mo for the service, but that info is just not worth $40/mo IMO

 

[RogueWriter]

This is always going to be an imperfect science, but they've done a nice job with it. Even disregarding the value estimate, it gives you some good info on the fly as you are looking at a domain. I think it is a little low, though, value-wise. For example, one of my favorite domains that I own, Instructor.tv , they value at a paltry $160, and even Instructor.com gets a low value of $10,000. Since there are over 1 million searches/month with that term, and a cpc of $2.34, I think both those domains should appraise much higher.

But I love the feel of the site and where they are going with it, very professional, easy to use and fast.

 

[noy.com]

I agree that for the most part they have done great job, but what I don't understand is why for the easiest part of it, i.e. LLL.com, they could not get it right. There is a clear floor on the value of LLL.coms and high liquidity coming with them.

And since they know about the problem and it is easy fix and they are not fixing it, I assume they have their own agenda. For example, get some owners of LLL.coms sell the names to them or something else.

 

[Luc]

I agree that for the most part they have done great job, but what I don't understand is why for the easiest part of it, i.e. LLL.com, they could not get it right. There is a clear floor on the value of LLL.coms and high liquidity coming with them.

And since they know about the problem and it is easy fix and they are not fixing it, I assume they have their own agenda. For example, get some owners of LLL.coms sell the names to them or something else.

Actually, we don't buy domains at all unless we plan to develop (ex: estibot.com).

We take this very seriously and recognize that while virtually every company in the industry has conflicting interest with their customers, we do not. Valuation is our game and we're sticking to that only.

I'd ask that you please PM me a list of domains which you think are not priced right so I can investigate if it's a bug. I checked a few LLL.com and they all appraised at 6 figures or more.

Thanks,
Luc

 

[Carlton]

... Valuation is our game and we're sticking to that only.

Would you be willing to list all of the valuation criteria estibot is using and how much weight each of those variables is assigned in determining a domain's value?

How does estibot achieve its comparison value for business markets that certain domains names are used for (real estate, travel, insurance, social networking, etc.). Are real estate domains more valuable than insurance domains, for example?

 

[RogueWriter]

Would you be willing to list all of the valuation criteria estibot is using and how much weight each of those variables is assigned in determining a domain's value?

How does estibot achieve its comparison value for business markets that certain domains names are used for (real estate, travel, insurance, social networking, etc.). Are real estate domains more valuable than insurance domains, for example?

Eh, that's almost begging to be copied. Try asking Google for a copy of their search results algorithm... same thing.

 

[estibot.com]

The LLL.com thing is a bug that has appeared recently and will be fixed soonest. Thanks for the heads up. There is no hidden agenda.

Regarding the valuation engine, it's still a work in progress but a lot of progress has been made, also behind the scenes a lot is happening. Geo, category-specific, market-specific valuation and the rest are being developed as we speak. We're well on our way but a lot of work remains to be done. However, it would make no sense to delay our launch until our valuation model is perfect - it will never be 100% perfect, and since the site offers a wide variety of useful tools already, and the valuations are for the most part pretty good, it makes sense to offer this service now and keep improving it. Obviously we will not divulge the specifics of our valuation model.

Whether our valuation engine really poses the risk to the market some people claim it does is really of no concern to us. If we are influencing market prices, then the market prices needed to be influenced by us, because the market is always right. Saying that Estibot is somehow hurting the market is like saying that some stock analyst's reports are hurting the stock market. It makes no sense.

On the contrary, our mission is to create something that will be good for the industry. The domain market is a very inefficient market. We ultimately aim to create a valuation framework which will increase market efficiency by bringing domain buyers and sellers closer to each other in more ways than by just providing a starting point for negotiation. Eventually the industry will benefit from this effort, and we will keep at it; we're committed. Criticism is always welcome, but we have a clear vision and will pursue that.

Regarding whether the service is worth $5, $20, $40 per month or nothing at all, it is really up to each user to decide. People usually act rationally, it boils down to the perceived ROI - if you don't feel you're getting your money's worth, then you probably won't subscribe.

On the other hand, if it saves you even one hour of your time each month by automating your research, then for some that is worth $5, others $40 and yet others $300, depending on how much your time is worth

Cheers
Esa

 

[Carlton]

Nice comments Esa. You have excellent tact and handle criticism very well. Credit to you for that. You are a businessman obviously and are operating with a vision which is unfolding gradually. Perhaps Estibot will one day become the quality valuation tool you imagine.

I have tested Estibot in a search for true integrity in its valuation results. The real question is in the level of sophistication, accuracy, and reliability your algorithms can produce. Presently Estibot is a car with only two wheels, but with fancy paint and a head-turning sound system. You need the other two wheels in order for Estibot to truly fulfill any legitimate role as a domain valuation mechanism.

There are too many holes in the underlying math for estibot to be mass marketed as a legitimate domain name valuator. Using known past sales, Estibot can ballpark (with a LARGE margin of error) a fair percentage of domains.

I think the basic examples I used above illustrate notable flaws in Estibot's valuation capability (i.e. the city + apartments.com examples show inexplicable discrepancies). Those examples could actually be quite instructive and could help estibot to be refined and improved. Actually, any discrepancy in valuations revealed & then resolved would be another step forward toward success.

 

[estibot.com]

Thanks Carlton, I have read every one of your posts carefully and think you present very valid points and actually we are in agreement about most things. We recognize the need for category and market specific valuation and we are indeed working on just that, as well as individual valuation models for different gTLDs and ccTLDs. The examples you provided are indeed instructive. We have also done extensive research on how to improve the valuation model based on market specific metrics that no one has yet utilized. Research is ongoing and the preliminary results are in fact pretty exciting.

Presently Estibot is a car with only two wheels, but with fancy paint and a head-turning sound system. You need the other two wheels in order for Estibot to truly fulfill any legitimate role as a domain valuation mechanism.

I love that analogy, and I agree completely. We are very busy putting those other two wheels in.

That is, the analogy is valid for the valuation aspect of estibot.com. Of course, we offer a wide variety of power tools that need no further validation and already have the four wheels in place.

Fact is though, that even in its current form the Estibot valuations are being used in large scale by domain professionals to make sense of the domain market, droplists, portfolios, etc. We process over 500,000 valuations daily and based on the feedback, the valuation engine, even with its current limitations, is already a legitimate domain name valuator. It's far from perfect, but like you said, it can ballpark a fair percentage of domains pretty well, and that's quite a lot better than was previously available.

Whenever we make improvements / changes to the valuator, I will post them on the new section of the site, and divulge as much detail as I can, so that users can follow the logic behind the development of the valuator.

 

[JagG]

Great Job Guys

 

[Highestlevel]

The New Estibot is great but......

Estibot 2.0 is a great tool use it all the time. The only problem with the new version is it does not recognise different words if they are Capitalised unlike the first version. So for example you type in GirlHotties and it will read the words Girl Hot Ties and thus give a zero valuation. The ability for the algorithm to recognise Capitalised words is pretty important I would say I'm not sure why the upgraded version does not allow for this.

 

[gazzip]

Hi Luc, are you also going to be blocking the appraisal page results from being indexed by Google ?

I just typed in estibot.com into google search and the second result was

EstiBot.com - declaws.com
The purpose of EstiBot is to provide keyword data and information about a domain. The dollar valuation is not to be taken literally - it may change, ...
w w w.estibot.com/appraise.php?a=appraise&data=Declaws.com]EstiBot.com - declaws.com


Are we going to end up with hundreds of thousands of pages with appraisal results of our domains on it indexed in Google each time someone uses Estibot for an appraisal ?


For someone that says "Actually, we don't buy domains at all unless we plan to develop" Have you ever tried to sell a domain to someone armed with an appraisal that they think is 100% accurate and set in stone ? Its near impossible !

While it is GREAT that you put things like: " The purpose of EstiBot is to provide keyword data and information about a domain. The dollar valuation is not to be taken literally - it may change" on your website it has become obvious already that alot of people don't bother to ever read it (including alot of domainers, just look at the forums !).

If all your appraisal results do get indexed by google then a tool which is supported by and aimed at helping domainers will very likely end up hurting domainers more than anything.

I'm not having a go at you Luc but I am just trying to be logical and realistic about the potential implications of how your pages will/may get indexed by all the search engines.

What's your thoughts on this Luc ?

Thanks


.

 

[Luc]

Hi Luc, are you also going to be blocking the appraisal page results from being indexed by Google ?

I just typed in estibot.com into google search and the second result was

EstiBot.com - declaws.com...

Are we going to end up with hundreds of thousands of pages with appraisal results of our domains on it indexed in Google each time someone uses Estibot for an appraisal ?


For someone that says "Actually, we don't buy domains at all unless we plan to develop" Have you ever tried to sell a domain to someone armed with an appraisal that they think is 100% accurate and set in stone ? Its near impossible !

While it is GREAT that you put things like: " The purpose of EstiBot is to provide keyword data and information about a domain. The dollar valuation is not to be taken literally - it may change" on your website it has become obvious already that alot of people don't bother to ever read it (including alot of domainers, just look at the forums !).

If all your appraisal results do get indexed by google then a tool which is supported by and aimed at helping domainers will very likely end up hurting domainers more than anything.

I'm not having a go at you Luc but I am just trying to be logical and realistic about the potential implications of how your pages will/may get indexed by all the search engines.

What's your thoughts on this Luc ?

Thanks


.

Hello,

I recognize your concern.

I'm sure that for some of your domains, we appraise higher than what you'd be willing to sell at, while for others, we appraise lower and you don't want that publicized.

We don't publish ANY appraisal data. If someone links to their appraisal page on estibot from a site, then yes, google could crawl it, but that's the ONLY way. Usually, the people that link to the appraisal are those satisfied with the appraisal and want to have it crawled.

I think the compromise here is to allow YOU to submit a list of domains which you do not want crawled by the SEs and we can add a no-index meta tag on the fly when the appraisal is generated. This way, even if someone else links to your appraisal, it won't be picked up by the search engines.

We don't have a system setup for that. If this solution is acceptable please let me know and we'll add it to the work queue.

Thanks,
Luc

 

[estibot.com]

Have you ever tried to sell a domain to someone armed with an appraisal that they think is 100% accurate and set in stone ? Its near impossible !

... it has become obvious already that alot of people don't bother to ever read it (including alot of domainers, just look at the forums !).

If all your appraisal results do get indexed by google then a tool which is supported by and aimed at helping domainers will very likely end up hurting domainers more than anything.

.

Gazzip, I'd like to add one thing - in response to the above, I want to refer you to my previous comment (quoted below). Thus I don't believe we can hurt domainers. On the contrary, if we create more business by facilitating contact between buyers and sellers, and by helping to set a starting point for negotiations, we will help domainers. This is what we intend to do.

Whether our valuation engine really poses the risk to the market some people claim it does is really of no concern to us. If we are influencing market prices, then the market prices needed to be influenced by us, because the market is always right. Saying that Estibot is somehow hurting the market is like saying that some stock analyst's reports are hurting the stock market. It makes no sense.

 

[gazzip]

Hello,

I recognize your concern.

I'm sure that for some of your domains, we appraise higher than what you'd be willing to sell at, while for others, we appraise lower and you don't want that publicized.

We don't publish ANY appraisal data. If someone links to their appraisal page on estibot from a site, then yes, google could crawl it, but that's the ONLY way. Usually, the people that link to the appraisal are those satisfied with the appraisal and want to have it crawled.

I think the compromise here is to allow YOU to submit a list of domains which you do not want crawled by the SEs and we can add a no-index meta tag on the fly when the appraisal is generated. This way, even if someone else links to your appraisal, it won't be picked up by the search engines.

We don't have a system setup for that. If this solution is acceptable please let me know and we'll add it to the work queue.

Thanks,
Luc

Hi Luc, personally speaking I'm very happy if the appraisal results do not get indexed in the search engines and thanks for already dealing with that side of it, I'm not that bothered if the odd person did link to a name as it would'nt make alot of difference either way to my asking price so I don't think I need to take you up on your second solution, but thanks for offering. :tu:

Gazzip, I'd like to add one thing - in response to the above, I want to refer you to my previous comment (quoted below). Thus I don't believe we can hurt domainers. On the contrary, if we create more business by facilitating contact between buyers and sellers, and by helping to set a starting point for negotiations, we will help domainers. This is what we intend to do.

Originally Posted by estibot.com View Post
Whether our valuation engine really poses the risk to the market some people claim it does is really of no concern to us. If we are influencing market prices, then the market prices needed to be influenced by us, because the market is always right. Saying that Estibot is somehow hurting the market is like saying that some stock analyst's reports are hurting the stock market. It makes no sense.

Now that is a couple of scary statements

.... and by helping to set a starting point for negotiations, we will help domainers.

I must be confused...what qualifies you to set a starting point for negotiations on our behalf ? ...I must be missing something ?


"If we are influencing market prices, then the market prices needed to be influenced by us, because the market is always right."

So, A person who does not buy domains therefore "probably" does'nt have domains to sell either ?? is going to set the "market prices" for selling domains because the so called "market prices" are always right !

To be very clear > I sure am NO DOMAIN EXPERT by any stretch of the imagination and I'v NOT SOLD that many names but I have never really understood people using the term "market prices" when it comes to domains so please explain how you expect to be able to influence them by crunching a bunch of very misleading numbers coming from different models ?

Here's a few of my reasons why I think using the term "market prices" does'nt make sense when it comes to domains:

1) Two people are in a drop for an expiring domain with bags of potential in a new expanding market which is very important to a certain place, one is me with a couple of hundred bucks to spend the other is FS who I think most people would agree is HUGELY TALENTED AND AT THE TOP OF THE DOMAIN INDUSTRY TREE.
(ps - I'm not shouting)

So the domain sells for just under $200, do you really think this is "the market price" for the domain ? I'd say add a couple more zeros and it would still be worth more to an end user.

Great names go cheap in the drops everyday because the selling price also depends on how many people knew it was expiring and how well funded those individuals are....but it does'nt always mean that its the "true market price" or correct value of the domain.

A name may sell better in a sedo auction than somewhere that has far less viewers than a smaller reseller site for instance.

(I assume) Your appraisal system crunches the numbers of domain sales (
+ other stats) most of which are shown in places like DNjournal, Namejet, Snapnames, Afternic, TDNam etc

Consider this:
2) The majority of domains that are bought in the drops at Namejet, Snapnames, TDNAM or by private drop catchers are bought for RESALE or PARKING by domainers who beleive they are WORTH MORE than what they paid for them... I tend to look at them as mostly buys not sales.

Sure enduser shop there too and buy names like CityCenter.com($72,250), Necktie.com ($70,250) etc but they are in the minority and when endusers are in bidding against a determined, experienced or well funded domainer then prices usually end up higher and closer to their real value to an actual business.

I don't think you can build an accurate domain valuation system based on how much most these drop names have sold for. I'v been in hundreds of drops ranging from $60 up to $500,000 and I often check to see what's happening to the name afterwards, more often than not its parked for resale.

If your system uses these sales prices and ads a plus or minus x to the price I doubt you are doing the seller any favours in getting a much better return anytime soon.

Eg: 6 random names taken from this weeks dnjournal:

G olfZ one - sold for $50,000 -estibot says > $ 51,000

O rbi on $25,000 - estibot says > $ 26,000 USD

R ussia callin g - sold for $20,240 > estibot says $ 21,000

Cry stal Blu e -sold for $11,300 > estibot says $12,000

L isten ToM e - sold for $10,000 > estibot says $10,000

Sh ej i - sold for $10,000 > estibot says $ 10,000 USD

Rav io li - sold for $10,501 > estibot says $ 10,000 USD

ku waitne ws - sold for $2,300 > estibot says $ 2,400 USD

clin icalo ndres - sold for $1,400 > estibot says $ 1,400 USD

...easy to say after the fact !

...now I'm not saying that all these (or any) were bought to resell but if they were and an enduser uses your appraisal system before making an offer then its not exactly going to make it easy for the reseller to make a profit on them if they are armed with an appraisal which is pretty much what they paid for it......do you see what I mean ?

3) Many of the sales listed on dnjournal, namebio are from Afternic/Buydomains sales, more likely end user buys but BuyDomains is primarily a high volume mass scale quick flipper who knows from years of experience that it is far easier to sell a domain quicker to a small to medium sized business if they price it somewhere in the 1,000 to < $4,000 range .....or maybe its just a strange coincidence so many of their names are priced or sold at $1,088 - $1,288 - $1,500 - $2,388 - $3,388 !

They have so many thousands of names for sale its a model that seems to work well for them but remember they have huge overheads and can't always sit around waiting for the perfect enduser buyer to come along....on most their names any buyer will do ! Its not the model thats used by most the top domain sellers as far as I can tell.

4) how many high priced names get sold to real endusers that never report the selling price to DnJournal, namebio or anyone else....a crutial missing part of your appraisal system.

5) your domain appraisal system does'nt take into account many of the things that are very important to endusers, brandability, memorability, mindshare, feel good factor, fit for purpose, market size/share, market value for sales and probably a dozen + more things I have no idea about

I really do try my very best to stay out of all the MANY estibot threads but you scare me when you say things like, "If we are influencing market prices, then the market prices needed to be influenced by us"

There is no accurate "market price" as each domain is unique and there is NO ONE SINGLE MARKET , prices will always depend on variables that your system does not (and can not) take into account at all. IMHO


Seems like logic to me but maybe you think I'm talking a pile of sh1t ?

Phew ...any thoughts on the above Luc ?



.

 

[anon22339]

Luc,

Perhaps what is causing many people's consternation about the estibot valuation is that the valuation is set in a currency: the U.S. dollar. What if instead you used a 0 to 100 standardized scale to score each domain name? That way, each domain just gets a score and the dollar price is set by buyers and sellers in the markets (there are two markets at play here -- the wholesale trade and the retail trade). Yes, your score would influence the market as you feel it should but the dollar price would be determined by the market and the market alone. I would think that would please some of the folks here who have fears about the current valuation method.

As for me, I'm just looking for a quick way to screen through thousands upon thousands of names to find the most attractive names that bubble to the top and that's exactly what Estibot does for me and why I'm happy to pay $20 or $40 per month for it. It's a huge time saver and gives its users a competitive advantage from a time perspective. I pretty much disregard the dollar valuation that estibot produces today as a "market" valuation; instead, I use the dollar valuation as a scoring and screening tool to get me focused on some of the best names fast. Might I miss some of the best names that Estibot mis-scored? Sure, but that's why I also use the column sorting features to sort and re-sort the results list to "eyeball" which one to three names keeps appearing near the top of the sorts IN ADDITION TO the dollar "score". It's not an analysis tool only; it's also a synthesis tool -- and that requires human judgment. Ultimately, the one or two names to pursue -- and for how much -- is a gut call and the true, market value of the names shall be determine by the buyer and seller in the retail market.

Logan.

 

[estibot.com]

Luc,

Perhaps what is causing many people's consternation about the estibot valuation is that the valuation is set in a currency: the U.S. dollar. What if instead you used a 0 to 100 standardized scale to score each domain name? That way, each domain just gets a score and the dollar price is set by buyers and sellers in the markets (there are two markets at play here -- the wholesale trade and the retail trade). Yes, your score would influence the market as you feel it should but the dollar price would be determined by the market and the market alone. I would think that would please some of the folks here who have fears about the current valuation method.

I know what you're saying Logan but the score concept has been tried and it didn't work. Francois of domaining.com did a very good job with domainscore.com but it fails to answer the fundamental question, what is this domain worth? It's not helpful enough.

Now, we need to be able to give at least a ballpark valuation for domains. Like yourself, domainers and companies need a way to make sense of large lists of domains and large portfolios. For instance, we appraise all the pendingdelete and auction lists every day, no one can valuate those manually every day, so we need to automate it. That's what we're doing. Like I said it's a work in process so there's a lot of room for improvement when it comes to appraising single domain names. That doesn't mean we will stop at bulk tools; like I've said before we will pursue improving the valuation technology on all fronts.

As for me, I'm just looking for a quick way to screen through thousands upon thousands of names to find the most attractive names that bubble to the top and that's exactly what Estibot does for me and why I'm happy to pay $20 or $40 per month for it. It's a huge time saver and gives its users a competitive advantage from a time perspective. I pretty much disregard the dollar valuation that estibot produces today as a "market" valuation; instead, I use the dollar valuation as a scoring and screening tool to get me focused on some of the best names fast. Might I miss some of the best names that Estibot mis-scored? Sure, but that's why I also use the column sorting features to sort and re-sort the results list to "eyeball" which one to three names keeps appearing near the top of the sorts IN ADDITION TO the dollar "score". It's not an analysis tool only; it's also a synthesis tool -- and that requires human judgment. Ultimately, the one or two names to pursue -- and for how much -- is a gut call and the true, market value of the names shall be determine by the buyer and seller in the retail market.

Logan.

Exactly. Well, you're using it like we wanted it to be used

And at the risk of repeating myself I'd like to add that the market will determine the price always. No way around it. We do realize there are two separate markets, retail and wholesale, and in fact we're giving both estimates in the appraised droplists now.

There is always a market price and sometimes it's close to what Estibot says it is and sometimes it's not. I maintain that the notion that our valuation is hurting the market somehow does not make sense. Either way, we will not stop giving valuations, on the contrary, we specifically aim to increase the role of valuation in our services and build new services around it. It's here to stay

-Esa