Domains sold by forum member repossessed by GoDaddy

[draco]

I bought two domains, 28924.com and 82742.com, that were advertised by Omer Doron on NamePros.

https://www.namepros.com/threads/82742-com-28924-com-350-each-sold.1101500/

I paid with PayPal and the domains were pushed to my GoDaddy account. Three weeks later, I was notified that the domains were repossessed by GoDaddy. They told me,

"The original purchases of the domains in question were charged to an invalid payment method, resulting in the repossession of products and subsequent refund for initial cost. If the seller reverses charges for the services they purchased on your behalf, we “repossess” the purchase meaning the products are removed from your account. The original price of the domains must be paid in full before they may be returned to your account. We offer you the option of purchasing the domains for the original price of $761.34. This price is the cost of the original receipts connected to these domains which has been refunded.".

The Seller is claiming that they bought the domains from someone, and they weren't the ones that paid with the invalid payment method or did the chargeback. The $761.34 GoDaddy wants is actually more than I paid for the domains. The Seller claims I'm trying to get a refund from the wrong person, because they didn't do anything wrong. I feel it's their responsibility, since they sold them to me. They should go after the person they claim they bought them from.

Originally he said he would give me a refund after he verified the information with GoDaddy. Then he said he wouldn't do it because he thought they were stolen. Then he asked me to post here anonymously and he would issue me a refund if he was convinced it was 100% the right thing to do. When I asked him what it would take to be 100% convinced, he wouldn't answer.

I opened a dispute with PayPal. He lied in the response, claiming GoDaddy told me there was something wrong with my account. GoDaddy never told me there was anything wrong with my account. They just gave me the option to buy the domains back from them. It's an option, not a debt I owe them.

 

[xynames]

Well something like no daddy or no mommy etc. I could see TM infringement likelihood of confusion but sites like PayPals*cks have stayed up because they are open and free discussions about the trademarked business. Similarly godaddys*cks or godaddys*ck could have stayed up too. Pity they’re not ‘vailable.

 

[mr-x]

Imagine if you walked into your local hardware store and bought a $300 generator.

You take it home, use it for WEEKS, and then one day someone just drives up and seizes it.

"Sorry bud, turns out someone's payment along the way was fraudulent, and we're actually the rightful owner now. Trust me on that!"

"Hey I spent $300 on that! I've got my receipt right here!"

"Sorry bud. Really a shame that happened to you. If you want a good generator, I'll sell you one for $300."

That is US law. If you buy stolen property, it is returned to the person, company it was stolen from. Doesn't matter if property was lost through theft or fraud.

 

[xynames]

NOT QUITE - there are many issues. A bona fide purchaser (paid in good faith) may have rights. It is not "US law."

In some courts of law, it would come down to whether this was a bona fide purchaser. For example, did he buy a Picasso that was worth a million for $50K and should have known something was wrong?

However, this sort of analysis of "bona fide purchaser" generally takes place after some time has passed, as in years, and in such cases the courts are reluctant to disgorge a bona fide purchaser of something for which he has paid in good faith a fair price many years prior. Did the buyer do some due diligence to make sure he was buying from the actual owner? Buyer claimed yes, owner says - no. In this situation here, assuming what the owner of the domain says is true, where the buyer was immediately put on notice, I think most courts would side against him, even if he paid fair market for the domain, which sounds like - he did not pay fair market anyway.

As far as liability with the escrow company, I assume that either or both sides will sue them too, but I think their disclosures wash their hands of liability once escrow has closed. Whether these disclaimers from the escrow company will hold up in court, under these circumstances though, is not entirely clear.

However, this is an area of the law that a layman wouldn't necessarily know about. It is apparently a little arcane, because in the thread I quoted above even a supposedly experienced attorney like JBerryhill got it wrong and started talking about irrelevancies like the UCC going on and on about the UCC until finally he started to understand that it did not apply to the transaction being discussed.

I can see now why you're going on about the UCC, perhaps because it is similar to some other statutes. But still, the UCC itself will not apply to this transaction.

Plus, I went ahead and looked up Express Media on Lexis, Express Media Group, LLC v. Express Corp., 2007 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 34800, 2007 WL 1394163 and as far as the bona fide purchaser exception, the court makes no mention of the UCC*** in its opinion, and states that "Viewing the evidence in the light most favorable to defendants, they have not presented any evidence that the transfer of the domain name was anything but involuntary. The good-faith purchaser defense does not apply....Defendants must return the domain name express.com to plaintiffs." (Express Media does NOT say anything about how the bona fide purchaser exception does not apply because seller was not a merchant, or anything whatsoever like that.)

Indeed, Express Media stands for the proposition that Booth will lose his case here, unless he can present evidence that he obtained good title to the domain from an unknown buyer, but how could he?

Defendant in Express Media "presented no evidence that would indicate that they have obtained good title to the domain name from an unknown third party."

***The California Commercial Code is not the UCC. The CA Commercial Code applies:
https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2007/com/1301-1310.html
1301. (a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, when a
transaction bears a reasonable relation to this state and also to
another state or nation, the parties may agree that the law either of
this state or of the other state or nation shall govern their rights
and duties.
(b) In the absence of an agreement effective under subdivision
(a), and except as provided in subdivision (c), this code applies to
transactions bearing an appropriate relation to this state.
(c) If one of the following provisions specifies the applicable
law, that provision governs and a contrary agreement is effective
only to the extent permitted by the law so specified:
(1) Section 2402.
(2) Section 4102.
(3) Section 5116.
(4) Section 6103.
(5) Section 8110.
(6) Sections 9301 to 9307, inclusive.
(7) Sections 10105 and 10106.
(8) Section 11507.

A big difference between the UCC and CA Comm Code is applicability. Even if they are similar, one may apply and another may not apply depending on applicability.

The UCC does not apply to this transaction here discussed in this thread.

Thanks for agreeing that the seller does not need to be a dealer in order for the bona fide purchaser policy to apply.

So, if this particular issue could confuse someone like JBerryHill esq then it could confuse anyone, I suppose.

But just know that it is not "US Law" that "stolen" (and it also comes down to what it means to be "stolen") property is instantly returned to its original owner. As the French might say, Ca Depend.

 

[000]

That is US law. If you buy stolen property, it is returned to the person, company it was stolen from. Doesn't matter if property was lost through theft or fraud.

As I said.....

Again, I expect GoDaddy is within their rights when they seize a domain. But it's unquestionably going to result in an extremely poor experience for one of your INNOCENT customers.

Some companies choose to eat the loss (and hopefully learn something about improving their payment verification measures), and some companies choose to pass the loss onto an innocent customer down the line. There is nothing requiring them to take action against an innocent party, and doing so is likely to be a PR nightmare. GoDaddy has already lost far more than $700 from this debacle, and this is just the beginning.

 

[000]

Let's not forget, when the innocent party ponies up the cash, the criminal essentially gets off the hook. Joe said that GoDaddy never collects from both parties. Seems like they give up awful quickly then! Within days or a small number of weeks if seems they're moving on to the easier target: the current domain holder.

That's a pathetic "attempt" at collections if you ask me! In such a short time-frame, I highly doubt there is any SERIOUS effort made to collect from the criminal, prior to moving on to the innocent party.

No if we get the payment from the original party we stop pursuing it. If we work it out with the credit card company we stop pursuing it, etc, etc until the very last option which is to take the domain back.

 

[mr-x]

I replied before reading your second post. I've been in similar situation, not surprised Godaddy acted as they did.

As I said.....



Some companies choose to eat the loss (and hopefully learn something about improving their payment verification measures), and some companies choose to pass the loss onto an innocent customer down the line. There is nothing requiring them to take action against an innocent party, and doing so is likely to be a PR nightmare. GoDaddy has already lost far more than $700 from this debacle, and this is just the beginning.

 

[Jonathan MacDermid]

Well something like no daddy or no mommy etc. I could see TM infringement likelihood of confusion but sites like PayPals*cks have stayed up because they are open and free discussions about the trademarked business. Similarly godaddys*cks or godaddys*ck could have stayed up too. Pity they’re not ‘vailable.

GodaddyBullS**t is available.

What's people's thoughts on me putting up a little site where people can air their grievances about Godaddy's services on it ?

 

[.X.]

In my state, if you are in possession of stolen property, no matter the circumstances, you are charged with being in possession of stolen property. Not fair? Perhaps so, but

I replied before reading your second post. I've been in similar situation, not surprised Godaddy acted as they did.

I replied before reading your second post. I've been in similar situation, not surprised Godaddy acted as they did.

I replied before reading your second post. I've been in similar situation, not surprised Godaddy acted as they did.

Same here, I wasn’t surprised at all, I have been in the situation before as well, it sucks royally , but it is the nature of doing business

 

[Keith]

In my state, if you are in possession of stolen property, no matter the circumstances, you are charged with being in possession of stolen property. Not fair? Perhaps so, but




Same here, I wasn’t surprised at all, I have been in the situation before as well, it sucks royally , but it is the nature of doing business

This isn’t stolen property. It’s failure by a big company to properly process payments. GoDaddy is to blame here and in all honesty, I’m contemplating the transfer of 500+ domains out ...

 

[.X.]

This isn’t stolen property. It’s failure by a big company to properly process payments. GoDaddy is to blame here and in all honesty, I’m contemplating the transfer of 500+ domains out ...

How is that the case?

Godaddy processed the payment, the buyer did a charge back, Godaddy verified funds and waitied for them to clear, releases the purchased merchandise to the buyer, then the credit card company issued notice of a charge back by the card holder, Godaddy takes possession of their unpaid property.

Pretty standard protocol by corporate America, I have been through it myself, right , wrong or indifferent, it is our system, it isn’t perfect, but it’s the only system we have. The cost of doing business.

I feel quite sure that Godaddy takes it’s share of big money losses every year. Most big companies do. It’s the cost of doing business.

 

[Keith]

Godaddy verified funds and waitied for them to clear

The payment didn’t clear and wasn’t verified which is obvious. Had it been cleared this debacle wouldn’t be happening. GoDaddy takes payments which they can’t gaurentee are good. That’s exactly what happened here.

 

[.X.]

The payment didn’t clear and wasn’t verified which is obvious. Had it been cleared this debacle wouldn’t be happening. GoDaddy takes payments which they can’t gaurentee are good. That’s exactly what happened here.

If that is the case, then why when I win an auction at Godaddy does it take at least 10 days for the domain to be in my account and possession? I had wondered why, so I called GD, I was told that my funding was being verified and would have to clear from my payment provider before the domain would be put into my account and become my property.

I don’t see that as a negative, they are protecting my ass as well to an extent.

This situation is very unusual I would think, I would venture to bet that GD is working to avoid this kind of fraud, this is a very tricky scam that was well thought out IMO

Scammers are always researching how to slip the knot , as they were able to do in this case.

We can only be vigilant, when new scams start, there are always innocent victims who loose ALOT of money, with no restitution

 

[Keith]

If that is the case, then why when I win an auction at Godaddy does it take at least 10 days for the domain to be in my account and possession? I had wondered why, so I called GD, I was told that my funding was being verified and would have to clear from my payment provider before the domain would be put into my account and become my property.

I don’t see that as a negative, they are protecting my ass as well to an extent.

This situation is very unusual I would think, I would venture to bet that GD is working to avoid this kind of fraud, this is a very tricky scam that was well thought out IMO

Scammers are always researching how to slip the knot , as they were able to do in this case.

We can only be vigilant, when new scams start, there are always innocent victims who loose ALOT of money, with no restitution

They’re not protecting you. You could be a victim just like in this case. 10 days means nothing when a chargeback can happen 60 days later, in which case your domain gets repossessed.

GoDaddy either gaurentees sales or they don’t. We see now that they don’t!

 

[.X.]

They’re not protecting you. You could be a victim just like in this case. 10 days means nothing when a chargeback can happen 60 days later, in which case your domain gets repossessed.

I have been a victim, on a $2,200 Gibson Les Paul that I sold , was paid by credit card, the buyer did a chargeback , my only recourse of action was civil, I spent $75 and filed a smalls claims in Dallas County, the defendent did not appear in court, that giving me the judgement by the court in the amount of $2,200 plus court fees, a judgement was placed on the defendent, I never got a dime back. The defendant whom purchased the guitar for her son, got a free Gibson Les Paul Guitar

 

[Keith]

I have been a victim, on a $2,200 Gibson Les Paul that I sold , was paid by credit card, the buyer did a chargeback , my only recourse of action was civil, I spent $75 and filed a smalls claims in Dallas County, the defendent did not appear in court, that giving me the judgement by the court in the amount of $2,200 plus court fees, a judgement was placed on the defendent, I never got a dime back.

I’d hold a billion dollar company to a higher standard. Just saying...

 

[.X.]

I’d hold a billion dollar company to a higher standard. Just saying...

I do see your point, but as a business owner, I understand Godaddys position as well.

I have a no questions asked return policy for 60 days on all the musical instruments I sell, I get many returns, as well as many returns on amplifiers, and effect pedals , Drum heads for the most part, once returned , I have to sell these items as used items, it cost me more money than I would like for sure, It is the cost of doing business, my shop is in its 9th year of business now, i am pee on size business, I see all kinds of different scams weekly in my business, I have to eat losses that are within my 60 day no questions asked return policy, but that policy is what has helped my business prosper.

My point, there is no sure shot equation for any company when it comes to their policies, in this particular case, which is way -way complicated with the merchandise being sold twice after it left the initial delivery by the 1st company sale.

A lot of hands have been on the property since it’s intial sale, that making it a civil matter.

 

[.X.]

FYI , I do business with Godaddy purchasing expired domains, they are not my portfolio holder, their pricing does not meet my needs.

Namesilo and Dynadot get my business on registering and renewals, only those two.

I personally have never had a bad experience with Godaddy or its services , nor customer service in 19 years, I don’t agree with all their policies, but I will definitely continue to do business with GD as long as they continue to provide the service I have gotten in years past

 

[toughdomains]

this is both interesting and newsworthy...can someone tell me why this is not in the news section?

 

[carob]

If that is the case, then why when I win an auction at Godaddy does it take at least 10 days for the domain to be in my account and possession? I had wondered why, so I called GD, I was told that my funding was being verified and would have to clear from my payment provider before the domain would be put into my account and become my property.

Let's see what happens if you ask them to put that in writing.

 

[.X.]

Let's see what happens if you ask them to put that in writing.

For me to pursue that, they would have to do something. They have always delivered the merchandise that I have purchased and have never taken a domain name or charged me for something falsely, auction win delivery times have varied from 10 days to 14 days, but that makes sense and is understood by what I was told by phone with them, so the delivery time of my auction wins isn't a problem, I am always informed in control panel of the status, as well as when the name is delivered into my account via email.

when I did register domains with Godaddy, I never had any problems, I had hundreds of domains with Godaddy with zero problems, Customer service used to call me just to shoot the shit back in the day.

One day I got a call from Godaddy. "How are ya John" I am doing great, but I need to talk to Bob Parsons" "May ask what this is concerning John? " Nah, that's ok" "Please hold one minute John if you can" "Sure" music playing ........ Phone comes back " Hello John, This is Bob Parsons how may I address your concerns today" .....Silence....." Uh, Hi Bob, John here, how are you, Sir. "I am fine, how can I be of help? "I was kidding when I told your rep I needed to talk to you, Bob said well, now that we have met, would you mind telling me what Godaddy can improve on, your likes and dislikes. I talked to him for about 30 more minutes about all that. Embarrassing, comical and cool all at the same time lol. Those days back in 05-06-07-08 where awesome times and Godaddy was in growth mode/

aside from their reg and renewal pricing not fitting my needs in today's domaining, they still do great business with me on expired domains and keep my inventory happy.

 

[Andish]

I followed this story carefully, and my assessment is as follows:
the risk of using Godaddy services is far beyond acceptable. I alraedy began migrating all my portfolio in batches to other reistrars. So along with my lost trust Godaddy lost another XX,XXX USD a year.

 

[carob]

For me to pursue that, they would have to do something.

I don't understand - what would they have to do for you to then ask them to confirm in writing to you what they said on the phone? That seems like a routine request to me, and if they refused that would raise questions.

From what you say they told you this:

I was told that my funding was being verified and would have to clear from my payment provider before the domain would be put into my account and become my property.

I appreciate that you have not had problems with them, but prevention is better than cure. Until they say something in writing it is hardly binding, they can just disown, deny or forget it anytime if it suits them.

I was baffled when they got rid of email support, it seems really inefficient and expensive to push people onto the phone and not have a ticketing system. Thought maybe it was to force upsell sales pitches on you, now I'm not so sure.

 

[wwwweb]

New scenario if I bought a domain from someone who did a chargeback, and I sold a domain via godaddy premium listing, and it got reposssed 15 days after it sold, who would take the hit for that? Would godaddy repossess it back less any commissions they charged on the sale? Would they seek reimbursement of funds via seller #2, what is the procedure here? Is there a order or operations addressed in the terms of service?

 

[55Domains]

For me its dead-simple, knowing this, i will never ever buy a domain thats registered on godaddy again, other then expired auctions and then transfer out , the risk is not worth the return, knowing they can come along whenever they would like to do so and take it from me on whatever they would like to claim.
No thanks.

The case is clear, and if godaddy was directly scammed by someone, weather or not it is their fault, they should be taking the loss and not some innocent 3rd or 4th party buyer. GoDaddy should take this up in court with the buyer that did the chargeback or otherwise got hes funds back, court or via any other means they would pursue if the domain was already transferred away from godaddy.

It cant be that easy to win a dispute on a charge-back or scammers would be all over the place buying 2-4000$ domains from all the platforms, then transferring them out and/or selling them within 1-2 weeks, the fact they are not doing so kinda speaks against godaddy here, and im quite positive that godaddy needs to either be more strict on the payment verification process or put more resources into fighting the chargeback, and if they cant do so, not just go and practically "steal" from an inoccent 3rd party.

This thread alone has cost godaddy more then $20,000 a year, maybe way more since we arnt even counting those that will just silently transfer out without announceing it. go figure. To me it seems, $700 one time, would have been the cheaper option.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

While I thank @Joe Styler for all the time spent responding on this, and other, topics on NPs, and have huge respect for you personally, I am unconvinced by the position of your company in this matter. I don't think it is right that because GoDaddy is the registrar they can seize the domain name without going to a third party judicial decision. It is not enough to say that we only rarely do this and normally we use other methods. I think GoDaddy should operate in the same way as if the domain was registered at another registrar.

Bob