NameSilo

Domainer Scammed For $26k On A Stolen Domain!

Labeled as discuss in General Domain Discussion started by Silentptnr, Mar 5, 2018.

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  1. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Member VIP

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    It always seems ENOM, and Netsol are the ones these circumstances circle around.

    Anyone that has a 3L.com should put it behind privacy, and put as many locks on it as possible. Don't give anyone any chance to compromise your info. This person must have gone to the bank where the check was drawn to certify it. Otherwise the bank must have put a hold on it given the amount.

    Spoiltrider who told you a man cashed the check?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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  2. forge

    forge prisoner VIP

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    Can someone (preferably spoiltrider/Rebecca) please explain the above statements?

    Either cqd.com was stolen or it wasn't.
     
  3. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Member VIP

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    What is being stated is that a fraudster took possession of the domain thru their netsol account, then faked verification thru escrow, then requested a check, and cashed it. Buyer, and real owner caught up in the mess. That is how I understand it.
     
  4. Josh R

    Josh R Owner of BrandConsultants.com & TheDomainBlog.com PRO VIP

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    What doesn't make sense is why Rebecca would be so hostile to James. Regardless of what's going on, he's not the bad guy. She should be looking to work with him, not against him.
     
  5. forge

    forge prisoner VIP

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    Why would "they" (whoever they are) report $19k for the sale when James Booth claims to have paid $26k?

    Surely the Escrow transaction was for one amount or the other.
     
  6. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Member VIP

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    Because she probably said give me my domain back, and he can't, as he feels he is the rightful owner, since he paid for it, hence the stand off. It's a bad situation for all parties involved, I can see the side of the owner of 22 years, and the buyer.
     
  7. xynames

    xynames XYNames.com PRO VIP

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    In some courts of law, it would come down to whether this was a bona fide purchaser. For example, did he buy a Picasso that was worth a million for $50K and should have known something was wrong?

    However, this sort of analysis of "bona fide purchaser" generally takes place after some time has passed, as in years, and in such cases the courts are reluctant to disgorge a bona fide purchaser of something for which he has paid in good faith a fair price many years prior. Did the buyer do some due diligence to make sure he was buying from the actual owner? Buyer claimed yes, owner says - no. In this situation here, assuming what the owner of the domain says is true, where the buyer was immediately put on notice, I think most courts would side against him, even if he paid fair market for the domain, which sounds like - he did not pay fair market anyway.

    As far as liability with the escrow company, I assume that either or both sides will sue them too, but I think their disclosures wash their hands of liability once escrow has closed. Whether these disclaimers from the escrow company will hold up in court, under these circumstances though, is not entirely clear.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  8. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Member VIP

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    The domain is maybe worth $32-$40K based on an average generic sale, probably more if they find a targeted end user. The original owner knows the kind of offers that landed in the inbox. I am sure owning it for over 2 decades they probably think more just based on attachment, and personal purpose.
     
  9. xynames

    xynames XYNames.com PRO VIP

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    This is where we are getting into discrepancies...along with the buyer's claim that he contacted the owner, and the owner's claim that he did not.

    I am about to buy a domain from someone here on NamePros for a piddling $40., and I will not send the money over via PayPal until after the seller sends me an email from the registered WhoIs email address for the domain. You're telling me that this buyer here, it did not occur to him to have that done, over a five figure sale?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  10. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Member VIP

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    At $19K, it is a pretty quick flip to a Chinese broker/buyer, probably $5-8K upside within 72 hours if you have a good broker contact.
     
  11. Crysis

    Crysis Established Member

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    The buyer "claimed" that he did his due diligence before purchasing the domain name . Here is the quote

     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  12. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Member VIP

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    Buyer, and seller can say whatever they want.

    When dealing with old domains, a good rule is to call old numbers even one owner back to follow the trail. So I would ask the buyer if they called the business numeber matched to this domain which I show as 352-870-5272, would be step 1, and if that fails do not pass go.
     
  13. Niraj Kumar

    Niraj Kumar Established Member

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    Afternic has many such domains listed for sale, whose owner changed. In fact I own few domains which is listed on afternic for buy now price by previous owner. I contacted afternic support to remove those from sale but no response from them yet.I have also contacted seller as well.
    Also one thing the price listed there for buy now is very low compared to my appraisal for end user. This restricts me from listing those domains on other marketplaces as if end user will see that price on afternic then he won't agree with my price at all.

    I think afternic has to re verify ownership of domains before accepting payment from buy now.Also they need to remove those domains whose owner changed. Looks like afternic is abandoned by its owner to make passive income. Those who sold some domains there is by direct traffic to their domain.

    Once I listed domains on afternic for sell via premium network, dashboard notification said verification email will be sent. I had to wait more than a month to receive that email. Meanwhile I have already removed those domains from afternic before receiving that email. So how email came to my inbox if no domains are there.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  14. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Member VIP

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    Yes, domains that get dropped, or expired usually never get deleted from accounts. Afternic won’t release funds if you can’t deliver the domain, the domain was compromised that is why this got as far as it did. Otherwise it would be DOA.
     
  15. Niraj Kumar

    Niraj Kumar Established Member

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    Ok agree afternic won't release the funds if one don't deliver the domain but why causing trouble to buyer and giving him hope that he can buy for particular price.Once buyer find out he won't get the domain for that price either he will demand that price from the current owner or won't buy at all.

    It's like selling others' homes in marketplace and taking money for that from buyer without even the current home owner knowing about it.
    The domain listed on afternic is easily visible in search engine results. Any buyer with little bit of knowledge can easily find out that link.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  16. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Member VIP

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    We are all affected by what you state, at sedo also, it’s an industry thing, and you just have to self govern your domains, if you send them an email with screenshot of the domain in your account they will remove it. It’s up to the old owners, but obviously if they drop, or sell the domain they know longer care as they feel they are done with it. I actually had this happen twice in the past few months, I got transfer out emails, as they had been sold at bin via the old owners bin, but nothing came of it, because they couldn’t deliver the domains to conclude the transaction. Afternic did work with me, and asked if I wanted to sell for x price. It’s been a issue for years, but let’s not rock to many boats, as if you over complicate to many things it will only make sales more difficult.
     
  17. carob

    carob Active Member VIP

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    Escrow's non liability for KYC were discussed in another thread with excellent input from
    @jberryhill - see that for info https://www.namepros.com/threads/i-...d-com-help-please.1059035/page-6#post-6515659

    And especially this post: https://www.namepros.com/threads/i-...d-com-help-please.1059035/page-6#post-6515852
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  18. Vimal Kumar

    Vimal Kumar PotentNames.com

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    Just went through all the posts and I must say...WOW!...a page straight out of an suspense, thriller novel!

    First @uglydork, now this. I believe this single post will be a huge learning for all members on NamePros. No matter how careful and safeguarded decisions we make, a minor miss, a minor oversight somewhere will blow everything off. Right now both, the original owner and the end buyer are not at peace.

    I hope once this is all over, someone can create the 'Ultimate Masterguide in Domain Transactions', a guide for 100% issueless transactions ( I hope it is not a myth).

    Godspeed.
     
  19. BoothDomains

    BoothDomains Contact us if you are looking for a premium domain VIP

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    I am willing to work with you Rebecca and get this solved but you should not be blaming me here. I am also a victim. Escrow.com should not have released funds to an impersonator if that is the case but that is not my responsibility. I did do all the relevant due diligence. We did contact you and had discussions via BOTH emails ([email protected]) and ([email protected]). I have proof of all the emails. I have proof that Escrow confirmed everything matched up. I don't appreciate you making accusations at me though as that is unfair. The total amount paid was $25,000 plus Escrow fees. I am curious to where you got the number of $19,000 from. I also have proof of the Escrow transaction. The Director of Fraud and Abuse at Web.com did a 3 MONTH investigation in to this case and returned the domain to me as I purchased the name by all the relevant legal channels. Suing 7 different people is going to cost you high 5 - low 6 figures.Even thought I know the domain name is worth more than what I paid I am happy to resolve this by selling the name back for what I paid. The law suit will also take years to resolve.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  20. Shaun Lun

    Shaun Lun Established Member

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    So sorry to hear. I hope you get your money back or even better, the domain.
    Even if that is the case, she should refund the money with no questions asked since she got her domain back.

    Only a scammer would want to keep the domain and keep the money.
     
  21. Vimal Kumar

    Vimal Kumar PotentNames.com

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    You are late. James got back the domain but, it appears that it was stolen. The original owner ( Rebecca) seems to have now come onboard Namepros and mentioned her story of the domain being stolen from her. Apparently, the money paid through escrow has already been encashed by scamster. New development awaited.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  22. Shaun Lun

    Shaun Lun Established Member

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    Oops. Didn't see the later comments.
     
  23. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Member VIP

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    The emails must have been compromised, if you purchase stolen goods even thru an approved escrow agency, most likely in a court of law the stolen goods will be returned to the rightful owners. This happens a lot with art work. The ip addrreses behind those email headers should tell the true story. If web did an investigation going back 3 months, if the domain was compromised prior to that, and everything left alone namesever wise, that would be invalid also.

    It is not a impossible Houdini fear that both the buyer, and original owner were duped in a pretty elaborate scam. The truth should come out on the details on exactly how.

    I really think escrow should refund the money, and try to claim it thru some sort of insurance policy if they can. I don’t know what what their tos state for such provisions, but companies usually cover themselves every which way. If the real owner can prove that the domain was stolen, and acquired from a fraudster, most likely the original owner would have the domain returned to them. It’s very complicated, but if the original owner did have contact via email with the buyer, and their ips match up, and they discuss details about escrow, and closing them it should be case closed. Web will probably lock the domain in buyers account, if a legal subpoena is presented.

    Given the domain was used for their active primary business will hold a lot of weight also.

    As stated the legal fees will far outweigh the value of the domain.

    It’s a tough situation as no party can really afford to compromise, as it will be huge losses either way.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  24. Silentptnr

    Silentptnr Hey From L.A. VIP

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    I hope there is some way for this situation to be settled. Seems like not only the buyer, but escrow.com and web.com were bamboozled by the unauthorized seller. And now possibly another victim.

    I don't think we have all the details and I agree, if this new member in fact truly is the person that owned the domain, and if in fact, the domain was stolen, this person should try not to pick a fight with the buyer but instead try to find a solution working together.

    I realize it must be horribly painful to lose a valuable domain and business identity, but there is a process for dealing with stolen property. As of now, we haven't even confirmed this persons identity. Good or bad, we know who the buyer is.

    A few months ago, a well known domain website had their Twitter account hijacked/stolen. Even with all the evidence, Twitter didn't assist until there was legal action. In the world of digital valuables, this stuff happens.
     
  25. Silentptnr

    Silentptnr Hey From L.A. VIP

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    Yes, and we don't even know that the original owner wasn't part of the scam. Just saying. I've heard of people burning their own property just for the insurance money.

    I certainly am not suggesting this, I just know these scams can be very, very, very elaborate.
     

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