legal Domain Front Running by Lumis.com

[silentg]

Lumis was trying to broker Kosmos(.)com without domain owner's knowledge and the owner got with UDRP. @jberryhill represented the owner and won. Owner still lost out on the legal fees.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1569695070462386180

Thanks to @GeorgeK for posting it on Twitter.

 

[Keith]

The domain is wide open here. Let’s stop placing blame! Their page basically says, please make an offer.

 

[Keith]

Thanks Lumis, it’s worth less than $15k. Typo

 

[bmugford]

Lumis responded to my message, and gave me permission to share their response here -


Hi Brad, Thank you for reaching out. I’m happy to provide clarity on this situation. We reached out to the Kosmos.com buyer and spoke with them about assisting them to acquire this domain. It was made clear that we did not represent the owner of the domain nor were we associated with the domain. We explained our service and that we are an acquisition brokerage firm. In addition, we also asked if there were any other domain names that we can assist them to acquire.

We had back-and-forth discussions with the buyer and explained the estimated market value for such a domain and the expected costs required to secure such a domain. The buyer stated:

“We understand, but how I said, we don't have that amount of budget.
We could make a big effort and try to get to 15-20k, but it will a bit difficult.”

We then stated:

“Understood. Given the domain and current ownership, we would be unable to approach the owner of this domain with a $15-20k budget.

Please let me know if you have any questions or if anything ever changes with Kosmos.com, happy to help.”

Based on the UDRP filing, it would appear that sometime later the buyer reached out to the listed broker on the domain (MarkUpgrade) and submitted an offer to purchase the domain (likely an offer we rejected to work with them on). I would assume that the buyer did not receive a favorable response from the listed broker and then intentionally and maliciously manipulated/omitted facts in the UDRP filing. In our conversation with the buyer, we also clearly stated that the brokerage firm representing the owner of Kosmos.com was MarkUpgrade.

Our email communication was provided to the seller’s legal counsel.

The buyer blatantly attempted to mislead the UDRP panel. Anytime that Lumis reaches out to an owner of a domain name with an offer, we represent our clients with a signed contract and have been authorized to submit the offer. We are a domain buyer acquisition firm.
--
Hobi Michalec
Co-Founder | Tech | Lumis

I appreciate their response regarding this situation.

I think the UDRP was clearly nonsense and rightfully decided. Everyone should be able to agree on that.

With that said, I still think there are potential issues when contacting a third party about a domain that might not be listed for sale, is unpriced, or has a seller broker already attached to represent it.

I have concerns with a third party proactively reaching out to another party regarding a domain owned by another party. It just seems like on some occasions this could cause issues that otherwise would not exist.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

Thanks Lumis, it’s worth less than $15k. Typo

I think their valuation is right on the money. I have a similar domain Kosmic, and it has received much higher offers.

Brad

 

[ksusha64]

Lumis did nothing wrong. People file udrp for no reason. The buyer made up a reason and manipulated facts. We need more great people like George for calling these jokers out.

 

[Keith]

I think their valuation is right on the money. I have a similar domain Kosmic, and it has received much higher offers.

Brad

What are they asking for Kosmos?

This is like kannabis, worthless

 

[bmugford]

What are they asking for Kosmos?

This is like kannabis, worthless

I have no idea how much Kosmos is asking.

The valuation I was referring to was in regards to what Lumis said. $15k range is not going to get it done for a domain like this.

Brad

 

[GeorgeK]

What are they asking for Kosmos?

This is like kannabis, worthless

"Kosmos" is registered in over 200 TLDs:

https://dotdb.com/search?keyword=kosmos&position=any

Your analysis is simply incorrect, repeatedly. You should listen more, and speak less.

 

[Keith]

"Kosmos" is registered in over 200 TLDs:

https://dotdb.com/search?keyword=kosmos&position=any

Your analysis is simply incorrect, repeatedly. You should listen more, and speak less.

Yet it hasn’t sold. It’s a typo.

We’d all like to own cannabis.com but none of us want kannabis.com

 

[bmugford]

Yet it hasn’t sold. It’s a typo.

We’d all like to own cannabis.com but none of us want kannabis.com

I would be happy to add it to my portfolio.

Between com/net/org/biz/us/info the term is contained in 503 domains, each one of them much worse than the exact match .com.

Brad

 

[Reallybigidea.com]

Kosmos means space in some nonUS countries.

 

[DomainNature]

You people should start looking up words, in Ancient Greek language many words start with K instead of the C letter, go look wikipedia Crypt word.
Same case for Cosmos.
Edit: added links.

 

[ksusha64]

Kosmos means cosmos in most Slavic and other languages

 

[Reallybigidea.com]

Now I understand why do some Pros hides their domain assets.

Obviously brokering in this way is scam.

 

[Lox]

It’s a typo.

English, yes. In other languages, s.a. German, Slavic, ... east, nope.

COSMOS (english language)

 

[GeorgeK]

Yet it hasn’t sold. It’s a typo.

We’d all like to own cannabis.com but none of us want kannabis.com

Again, you don't know what you're talking about. "It hasn't sold" is one of the weakest arguments that buyers throw around. You could have said that for Voice.com for 2 decades, yet then it sold for $30 million.

There's a "bid-ask spread". Bid and ask only meet occasionally, when transactions actually take place. It's undeniable that this a high value domain (i.e. the bid side is "high").

If the owner doesn't want to take that bid (their ask is even higher), the fact remains that the "bid" is still high (due to the fact that it's such a popular term).

(in reality, there's a probability distribution, not just a single value....for more valuable domains, that probability distribution will have much higher values than that of a lower domain, like flhsghhsghk.horse)

 

[Future Sensors]

Yet it hasn’t sold. It’s a typo.

The philosopher Pythagoras first used the term kosmos (Ancient Greek: κόσμος, Latinized kósmos) for the order of the universe.

So, Pythagoras made a typo?

 

[ksusha64]

Kosmos.com would sell for 15k on godaddy or namejet. It’s obviously 6 figure domain

 

[rh2000]

The only issue created is when it doesn’t benefit you. Again, a 5-6 figure, unsolicited offer, you’d jump on.

In a heartbeat.

 

[Keith]

Again, you don't know what you're talking about. "It hasn't sold" is one of the weakest arguments that buyers throw around. You could have said that for Voice.com for 2 decades, yet then it sold for $30 million.

There's a "bid-ask spread". Bid and ask only meet occasionally, when transactions actually take place. It's undeniable that this a high value domain (i.e. the bid side is "high").

If the owner doesn't want to take that bid (their ask is even higher), the fact remains that the "bid" is still high (due to the fact that it's such a popular term).

(in reality, there's a probability distribution, not just a single value....for more valuable domains, that probability distribution will have much higher values than that of a lower domain, like flhsghhsghk.horse)

https://www.cosmos.com/

The domain the owner of Kosmos wished they had. Why would anyone in their right mind pay to play second fiddle???

You’re trying to say voice for $30 million is like voyce. No chance

 

[bmugford]

Again, you don't know what you're talking about. "It hasn't sold" is one of the weakest arguments that buyers throw around. You could have said that for Voice.com for 2 decades, yet then it sold for $30 million.

https://www.cosmos.com/

The domain the owner of Kosmos wished they had. Why would anyone in their right mind pay to play second fiddle???

Cosmos.com is a potential million dollar domain. Kosmos is also great.

There are 160 million .com. It is not some zero sum game where only one domain has value.

Hundreds of companies use the term Kosmos in branding.

Brad

 

[GeorgeK]

Cosmos.com is a potential million dollar domain. Kosmos is also great.

There are 160 million .com. It is not some zero sum game where only one domain has value.

Brad

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Keith]

Cosmos.com is a potential million dollar domain. Kosmos is also great.

There are 160 million .com. It is not some zero sum game where only one domain has value.

Hundreds of companies use the term Kosmos in branding.

Brad

It’s not worthless imo but it’s not worth this thread. Front running a typo isn’t worth creating a thread.

 

[Keith]

@GeorgeK @bmugford

2 legends here. I listen and respect your opinions!!!

 

[Lox]

It’s not worthless imo but it’s not worth this thread. Front running a typo isn’t worth creating a thread.

Front-running an EMD