Domain Appraisal Folder is Losing Value

[silveraden]

I see many nonsense posts like $0, not developed, not .com, etc. people saying these things are either dumb or just compiling number of posts.

Why ask for a developed domain when it is a domain appraisal folder. If is it developed, it is not just a domain anymore, right?

With the above argument, even if you post a newly-registered car.com, a dumb appraiser will still tell you it's $0 because it is not developed.

Majority of comments on appraisal folder are useless and I think the admin should check and consider having some specific rules in there.

Thank you

 

[decades80]

Yes this is correct, but I have noticed that the domain owners feel offended (since in belief their domain is worth millions) and than they reply in arrogant way.

 

[equity78]

Cyberian is right and this has gone on for a long time. And I will call out management to make rules and then have the mods follow them.

Way back when .tv had its own appraisal section, I had rules for that section.

If you started a thread, you first had to give your appraisal of your own name, why you regged it, how you came up with your domain value.

People appraising could not just say reg fee, they had to give a reason why, without any personal or childish remarks. If they did the post got deleted.

The op could not come back with childish or disrespectful remarks to the people who gave a real appraisal, any name calling or other antics and the thread was deleted.

If Namepros wants to fix this, they can. You set rules for the op and rules for the replies. Don't follow the rules delete the post or the thread.

 

[JFS]

i also think you guys are forgeting something... maybe some people don't want to others know how they valuate domains?
i can understand it.
And it would be difficult to see 2 guys giving the same evaluation using the exact same criteria...

 

[Eric Lyon]

Cyberian is right and this has gone on for a long time. And I will call out management to make rules and then have the mods follow them.

Way back when .tv had its own appraisal section, I had rules for that section.

If you started a thread, you first had to give your appraisal of your own name, why you regged it, how you came up with your domain value.

People appraising could not just say reg fee, they had to give a reason why, without any personal or childish remarks. If they did the post got deleted.

The op could not come back with childish or disrespectful remarks to the people who gave a real appraisal, any name calling or other antics and the thread was deleted.

If Namepros wants to fix this, they can. You set rules for the op and rules for the replies. Don't follow the rules delete the post or the thread.

Expecting a brand new member to post their own appraisal value and detailed explanations isn't very practical and will probably run off a high majority of new people with all the strict deletions. Newbies ask for an appraisal because they have NO CLUE what a domain is worth, if we start mandating they must know the value prior to asking a value it defeats the purpose and can potentially kill the most active forum we have.

The appraisal section is the very first forum 8 out of 10 new members post in. From there, they eventually spread out to other forums and start participating more. I don't think punishing new members is a solution at all and that maybe we should look at suggestions posted on some of the other pages of this thread, which focus more on either a guideline all members providing appraisals follow (Everyone's against this so far it seems), or creating a new group of people that agree to follow an appraisal guide every post (The group badge making it easier to sort through the fluff and get to the meat in any appraisal thread).

Please keep in mind that appraisals are done by members that don't have much free time, so expecting everyone to spend 15 to 30 minutes / 1 to 2 hours, etc. formulating a guideline requirement appraisal will most likely eliminate the majority of appraisals and render that forum dead within 30 to 60 days.

Allowing both; a winged appraisal by anyone and a guide following group appraisal might be the best solution thus far. Even then, it may be hard to find anyone that would want to be part of such a group and be committed to spending that much time on each appraisal.

I'm not sure there is a perfect solution, but I do know that making more rules and punishing people for their personal valuating skills or punishing 1st time posting newbies for not already knowing a value and how to determine one isn't the answer.

As for hate, trolling, and off-topic comments, We have been and can remain posting a reminder to get the thread back on-topic with the appraisal and remove some posts if they get a little extreme. (Example: Like today we removed posts attacking religion, which was way off the topic of appraising a religious domain)

Eric Lyon

 

[equity78]

Have to disagree with you there Eric. This person is a new domainer not a newborn child. Mandating ? Must Know ? There is nothing strict, you regged the name, why ? what do you think its worth ? Then others can at least have some info on where the op is coming from.

 

[iowadawg]

Have to disagree with you there Eric. This person is a new domainer not a newborn child. Mandating ? Must Know ? There is nothing strict, you regged the name, why ? what do you think its worth ? Then others can at least have some info on where the op is coming from.

Something along that lines is not going to turn new members away.
If they have no idea why they regged or bought a domain, then an appraisal is no help really.

 

[Eric Lyon]

Have to disagree with you there Eric. This person is a new domainer not a newborn child. Mandating ? Must Know ? There is nothing strict, you regged the name, why ? what do you think its worth ? Then others can at least have some info on where the op is coming from.

I can see your view on this as helpful but can't expect all new members to follow it. I'll type up a split guideline tonight (A.) How to provide the best appraisal ... & ... (B.) How to get the best appraisal ... An "Optional" guide For both appraisers & appraisees. I'll then create an announcement for it in that forum & link to it from the red disclaimer above the forum.

There's no guarantees anyone will actually read it, but it might help a little. If nothing else, maybe it will at least encourage members asking for an appraisal to provide more details (If they can) and stimulate better responses.

Eric Lyon

 

[-EM-]

encourage members asking for an appraisal to provide more details (If they can) and stimulate better responses.

So, this is the problem of bad appraising?

 

[Eric Lyon]

So, this is the problem of bad appraising?

Apparently, this is what most members are claiming the problem is, so if the majority feel that's the problem, I'll type something up to see if we can try to rectify it a little.

Eric Lyon

---------- Post added at 03:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 PM ----------

Optional guide added here: http://www.namepros.com/domain-appraisals/announcement-appraisal-guide-for-better-results.html

Let me know if there's anything left out that should be added.

Eric Lyon

 

[NPer]

Let me know if there's anything left out that should be added.

Eric Lyon

Nice write up. I was actually going to mention this earlier, that developed/revenue-earning names should have a separate section dedicated for appraisals for them (parked/dev'd)

The raw value of the name itself is not really being appraised. Instead, it's development/revenue-generating ability is being appraised.

It's common to see people hand-reg'ing names, then coming a week later, "oh whatever.me made $10 over the past 7 days. How much you think it's worth? Thanks". Question is: Does the name actually have value on it's own? I think some of you might know what I am talking about.

The appraisals come in, based on this information, and gives a better than expected appraisal for a name that has no inherent value.

A week later, that appraised domain is on Auction at NP, doesn't mention the traffic or revenue earning things (because it wasn't true and cannot provide proof=screenshots). New members remember reading the appraisal for the name and now bidding based on that revenue/traffic info. (I've seen it here soo many times-but one can't say anything as they are not breaking the rules.)

Now here's the problem: This brings about abuse of the Appraisal section. Even though rules have not been broken, it provides a loophole for ripping other members off.

A solution would be, if they are want an appraisal based on the revenues they "apparently" receive-be it from parking or dev'd names, then proof should be provided. No hurt in that for the one seeking an appraisal.

I think the appraisal section can have two subsections, the current section can be the 1 section "Appraisals for name value" (or something like that), section 2, "Appraisals for revenue generating domains" (parking, developments).

In section two, they should provide screenshots, otherwise, people can just lie, and open up an auction thread/external sales thread and rip new members off.

If there's no proof of traffic/revenue provided- appraisers can choose whether or not to appraise.

If there is proof of traffic and revenue provided-indication that OP really wants an appraisal and if you appraise it, and he puts it on sale, those who read the appraisal thread know that appraisals received are indeed more accurate. And the appraisers won't have to feel like they were party to someone else's "rip-a-sucker-off" scheme.

So perhaps, those guidelines that you have drafted can be split for say sections "1" and "2"?

Just a suggestion.

 

[Kenny]

Apparently, this is what most members are claiming the problem is, so if the majority feel that's the problem, I'll type something up to see if we can try to rectify it a little.

Eric Lyon

---------- Post added at 03:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 PM ----------

Optional guide added here: http://www.namepros.com/domain-appraisals/announcement-appraisal-guide-for-better-results.html

Let me know if there's anything left out that should be added.

Eric Lyon

Thats a well thought out guide, Scorp.

I like this part best.

(From the guidlines, bolded by me.)

It's important to remember that when giving an appraisal that you also try to educate the individual asking for an appraisal. The more detailed information you can provide, the more they will learn from the experience. You'll also find that appraisees tend to take an appraisal less personal and wont reply with upset comments as much when they receive a well thought out appraisal.

I'm pretty sure my first post in this forum was in Appraisals, I know 30 of my first 40 were asking for an appraisal.
And let me tell you, they wern't very good names. I had no clue about OVT, or any tools to measure the value of a good DN.

The members that took the time to explain WHY they wern't good names, or at least offered up opinions about where I might start looking for an enduser, they helped me out a lot.
And I thank them, to this day. :great:

For those that were just posting to show off what they didnt know, or just for post count in general, after awhile, even a newbie will eventually figure out who cares about what they sign their name to, and who doesn't.
I remember them, too.

Appraisers, remember back to when you were first posting for domain appraisals, and consider the replies that were acctually helpful, and try to be that guy/girl.

This is a community FULL of outstanding, helpful members, lets all aspire to be one of them.


Peace,
Cyberian

 

[equity78]

Very nice job Eric and yes I think its important that people understand one another where they are coming from.

Perfect example is tonights sales report. The top sale for the week was IndoTogel.com. $33,000 how many 0 value posts would it have got ? I don't speak the language this is rooted in, but I do research so that helped understand this is about online gaming in Asia. My appraisal would be worthless to the Asian based domainer who asked for an appraisal without any info in the post.

 

[Eric Lyon]

Nice write up. I was actually going to mention this earlier, that developed/revenue-earning names should have a separate section dedicated for appraisals for them (parked/dev'd)

The raw value of the name itself is not really being appraised. Instead, it's development/revenue-generating ability is being appraised.

It's common to see people hand-reg'ing names, then coming a week later, "oh whatever.me made $10 over the past 7 days. How much you think it's worth? Thanks". Question is: Does the name actually have value on it's own? I think some of you might know what I am talking about.

The appraisals come in, based on this information, and gives a better than expected appraisal for a name that has no inherent value.

A week later, that appraised domain is on Auction at NP, doesn't mention the traffic or revenue earning things (because it wasn't true and cannot provide proof=screenshots). New members remember reading the appraisal for the name and now bidding based on that revenue/traffic info. (I've seen it here soo many times-but one can't say anything as they are not breaking the rules.)

Now here's the problem: This brings about abuse of the Appraisal section. Even though rules have not been broken, it provides a loophole for ripping other members off.

A solution would be, if they are want an appraisal based on the revenues they "apparently" receive-be it from parking or dev'd names, then proof should be provided. No hurt in that for the one seeking an appraisal.

I think the appraisal section can have two subsections, the current section can be the 1 section "Appraisals for name value" (or something like that), section 2, "Appraisals for revenue generating domains" (parking, developments).

In section two, they should provide screenshots, otherwise, people can just lie, and open up an auction thread/external sales thread and rip new members off.

If there's no proof of traffic/revenue provided- appraisers can choose whether or not to appraise.

If there is proof of traffic and revenue provided-indication that OP really wants an appraisal and if you appraise it, and he puts it on sale, those who read the appraisal thread know that appraisals received are indeed more accurate. And the appraisers won't have to feel like they were party to someone else's "rip-a-sucker-off" scheme.

So perhaps, those guidelines that you have drafted can be split for say sections "1" and "2"?

Just a suggestion.

I made the following updates today:
1.) Since we already have a Website Review forum that basically covers most your suggestion, I simply changed the title to "Website reviews & Appraisals" and then added the appraisal guide to that forum.

2.) I then changed the Adult website reviews title to: "Adult Domains / Websites Reviews & Appraisals" and also added the appraisal guide to that forum (Adding appraisal to the title should help clear up confusions).

3.) I added a sub-forum link (in appraisals) called "Developed Domain Appraisals" that links to the "Website reviews & appraisals" forum directly.

4.) I then updated the appraisal guide with "Please provide screenshot proof" with the traffic & revenue option.

We'll see if that helps any or not.

Eric Lyon

 

[NPer]

I made the following updates today:
1.) Since we already have a Website Review forum that basically covers most your suggestion, I simply changed the title to "Website reviews & Appraisals" and then added the appraisal guide to that forum.

2.) I then changed the Adult website reviews title to: "Adult Domains / Websites Reviews & Appraisals" and also added the appraisal guide to that forum (Adding appraisal to the title should help clear up confusions).

3.) I added a sub-forum link (in appraisals) called "Developed Domain Appraisals" that links to the "Website reviews & appraisals" forum directly.

4.) I then updated the appraisal guide with "Please provide screenshot proof" with the traffic & revenue option.

We'll see if that helps any or not.

Eric Lyon

Eric, that's why you are the man! :kickass: These changes that you've been making recently will bear positive outcomes! Awesome work (as usual)! Always impressed! Quality is your standard. :tu:

 

[silveraden]

I see a lot of major updates after posting this thread and I would like to thank to fellow members and admins.... This forum sometimes makes my day... especially posts like this one.. http://www.namepros.com/4377791-post2.html

 

[namenut]

I think an appraisal is a lot easier to understand and accept if there is rational' (explanation) behind it. Just saying reg fee or $0 is not enough. You can explain (educate) the OP and perhaps "we" can bring down the number of poor quality names posted for appraisal by educating buyers. Perhaps in time the effect will lighten the appraisal posting and include a higher quality of domains and .... domainers.

Eric, You ROCK!

Cyber, Equity, 3D, Dawg, Default, JFS and others members like your selves are why NPs is NPs. No reason to compromise at appraisals .... we can always be better.

NN

 

[iowadawg]

Okay, this is not nice and it should be stopped!

Now all of a sudden in appraisals, nothing but negative values being given!

This domain is worth -$50.

What is up with certain people liking to give negative value to all domains?

Should be a rule, sticky or something to say...
Hey, be nice in your appraisals and stop with the negative appraisals!

If a domain had negative value?
Why, the registrars, icann, and so forth would be GIVING them away!
But they are not.

IMHO

 

[Eric Lyon]

ty iowa, on my phone at the moment but I will look into this later. Technically reg fee is the lowest possible value unless its a sale / special / discount.

Eric lyon

---------- Post added at 04:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:33 PM ----------

Update: Ok, I cleaned up the negative value appraisals I came across (not sure if I got them all) and added the following line in the appraisal rules:

Please Report: Any negative value appraisals, as technically the Lowest possible appraisals are Registration fee or as low as $0 if special discount / promotion was involved

This may or may not help, however it at least gives a reference point we can direct people to now.

Eric Lyon

 

[iowadawg]

Thank you very much.

 

[johname]

Please Report: Any negative value appraisals, as technically the Lowest possible appraisals are Registration fee or as low as $0 if special discount / promotion was involved


I understand the reasoning to:

The Lowest possible appraisals $0


But:

if special discount / promotion was involved

using a coupon doesnt change a percieved value by another party, just how much it hurt the buyers pocket.


Any why is regfee even mention here?




Its a no appraisal can be less than zero rule. Anything added to it doesnt make sense

 

[Eric Lyon]

It's our hopes that reg fee is the lowest viable appraisal since that's what most actually pay. The $0 is actually the acception being made for those that prefer the "tear people apart and make them feel worthless" approach so they think harder and do more research before investing in another name. $0 appraisals is almost like the scared straight program for domaining. Lol :P :D

 

[Kate]

I don't agree that $0 should be the minimum. Some domains posted for appraisal are major TM violations, accordingly the potential liability in court is up to $100,000
So the minimum should be -$100,000 (+ legal fees)

 

[Eric Lyon]

I don't agree that $0 should be the minimum. Some domains posted for appraisal are major TM violations, accordingly the potential liability in court is up to $100,000
So the minimum should be -$100,000 (+ legal fees)

Sounds like a set-up to wrongly accuse people. TM laws are very gray and differ in every country. Even in the USA there's some Names with over 20+ TM's filed by 20 different people, all legal and all the same exact name. In addition to that, what's a TM in England may not be in China, what's a TM in Germany may not be in USA, What's a TM in Canada may not be in Jamaica, etc.. I would venture to say that the majority of members appraising domains are not licensed TM attorney's and thus renders their litigation efforts in the form of value assessment inaccurate. This is why $0 should be the absolute min., since we don't know where the future buyer will be from, their intent, or their countries TM law.

Note: It's fine to discourage people from TM names and let them know the risks involved, but we can't act as attorney's on anyone's behalf. Maybe a $0 appraisal with added note that IF the name ends up in litigation it could meet or exceed xxx,xxx in court costs & fines. That would be the middle ground, providing an actual value ($0) and a What if you lose, fine warning.

Thanks for understanding,

Eric Lyon

 

[namenut]

I don't agree that $0 should be the minimum. Some domains posted for appraisal are major TM violations, accordingly the potential liability in court is up to $100,000
So the minimum should be -$100,000 (+ legal fees)

Hey that's my line ....

But seriously ... we should be able to separate an appraisal from an opinion.
I think If we evaluate the name based on "Resale Value" we can avoid the
below zero "opinion". An opinion I agree with.

Kinda like saying "From this point on" how much is the name worth. Otherwise
the potential loss by say TM suite would actually listed as a "debit" or an ...
operational expense. The "value" would be listed in "assets". So technically there
is a difference in value and cost.


:p
NN

 

[iowadawg]

Lot easier if someone puts up a potential TM domain for appraisal to just say:
Potential TM problem.
No value.

And leave it at that.