discuss .com switches to .app in the wild

[MapleDots]

There is an online company actually called Jane App

They have the domain JaneApp.com but they are using Jane.app instead.

Interesting situation and I wonder what I would do in their shoes.

The reason I say that is because....

[email protected] seems a bit odd to use as an email address

so upon investigation I notice they are actually using [email protected]

Not sure if I would do that, I think I would pick one of the two and run with the email address thereof.

------------------------------------------

Just for clarification... I have NO association whatsoever with this company.

 

[Internet.Domains]

IMO - Jane.app looks better than Janeapp.com....

I believe, using the .app version makes it more memorable in both print and audio marketing.

 

[Fancy.domains]

I like them both. For me, they are about equally good.

- .Com is known by 99,99% of people.
- The .app version is obviously shorter and looks great in print etc.

 

[MapleDots]

They have been called Jane App for a decade or more and that is all they do, they are a company that provides an online app service.

They have used Jane App as their actual name and have had JaneApp.com for years.

The thing that surprised me is that janeapp.com now forwards to jane.app which is technically pretty smooth because they both work.

The part that confuses is they use the .com for email and I have been telling people with the new extensions that for a while now. [email protected] will confuse people and I recently sold a domain where the business owner switched back to the .com specifically because clients could not get the email straight.

Personally I would have continued with the .com and forwarded jane.app to the .com. This way the email would match and you have a nice shortcut for advertising and radio. go to jane.app... but it forwards to .com

That is how I would have handled this whole situation.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

but most people over 40 (which is a large portion of the adult population) instinctively put a .com at the end of any web or email address.

I note you are based in US and I suspect this may be more true in the US than the rest of the world. Here I would never guess a .com as odds are better than 50/50 that the business or organization is on a .ca.

But I think the bigger question is ask yourself when is the last time is that you guessed an email and added any extension (as opposed to copying and pasting an email address or filling out a web contact form). I tried to think of this personally, and I can't remember the last time I tried to guess an email address (I am sure it has been many years).

Yes, globally about 46% of websites do use .com, but would you trust something important on a guess? Not me. Actually, of course, we should never trust email for anything critical in any case, which is why in general things like banks, investment firms, taxation people, etc. will not do any customer support via email but instead use some sort of ticketing system.

I note that you say under 40 and it is a good point. I have a perfectly good email address from where I worked for decades. But I find that most young people who need to get in touch with me more often than not try to do so through FB/LinkedIn/TwitterDM etc. as opposed to seeing if my email still works.

Bob

 

[Ali - jane.app]

Oh hi!

Would you like to know more of the details - I'll give you the full run down. Jane did miss out on Jane.com by one week. A lovely British woman sold it to the current owner just a week before we contacted her asking about it - sad. So we registered a number of other domains, including janeapp.com.

As we are a web app, and not a native app, we don't use the word "app" in our branding, and we began only referring to ourselves as "Jane". 99% of people consider an App only as a mobile product - and Jane isn't available on any app stores.

But a really fascinating thing started happening. Because our customers get subdomains for their sites (ie clinicname.janeapp.com) our customers ALL started calling Jane "Jane App". This is something we really weren't expecting.

So when the .app domain became available we knew that we wanted to own it, since someone else owning jane.app would be a pain in the butt. And from a branding perspective we think it communicates well. It's memorable, short and works super well in print. And because it wouldn't negatively impact our SEO when re-directed properly, it felt like a good fit. We also aliased all emails so both domains still work... no bouncing of bad emails!

We just found out about the public discussion around our domain switch and have been reading the threads with much enjoyment. Thanks for having so many things to contribute - we like the topic and would be happy to answer any questions.

And Bob - you are a true gem. Thanks for your very kind words and to all of you with thoughtful responses.

And to everyone: We've very much enjoyed sipping some bourbon and catching up on this debate. We had no idea people felt so strongly about tlds or ever imagined that our domain change would be the source of public discussion.

 

[MapleDots]

I would bet with this case whoever at this company chose janeapp.com also made the decision to use jane.app, it is the same type of basic domain mistake. Maybe some over controlling person in management who won’t seek or listen to advices and just make a decision themselves?

You seem to know exactly how other companies should run.... could you please show me a success you have had? I see you have a restricted account and a lot of opinions about other people's companies.

This jane app is hugely successful with what you call a crappy domain.

Could it be..... maybe just a bit that you are actually wrong?

Consider it....

 

[Bob Hawkes]

In the off chance that someone from Jane stumbles on this thread, I wanted to say this to you...

You probably are concerned about numerous negative comments on your name and domain from one member whose username is Johnnie018. I wanted you to know that it is not just your company or this thread - he almost always is negative on everything. I made a joke about NPs switching to a .pro domain and he did not even realize it was a joke despite the emoji I included. For some reason the reaction to almost everything anyone says is negative. I really feel a little sorry (being genuine. not sarcastic) on why he always feels so angry and negative about anything. Finding a place in life where you can be happy is important. And possible.

In case with a name like NamePros you thought all members were professional domainers that is not true. There are about a million members of NPs who range from those with hobby interests, part-time gig, full time domain investors, as well as those involved in various aspects of the domain industry. This can be a wonderful community, full of supportive people with deep knowledge of many topics. That does not mean that all contributions are valuable or even true. In some cases we have no idea about the identity of a person or what their background is. A thought I recently had is are we even sure it is a person, and not a negatively programmed bot. Anyway, let's move on but please do not full hurt by his/her/its comments and remember....

Anyway don't think that his views represent those of the majority here.

I know you know the following, Jane, but I wanted to share the following points I discovered in a bit of research on your company for knowledge of others that might be reading this list (for others wanting to read your company story it is here).

• Jane started out in 2011 with finding a good solution for the integrated clinical practice of one of the founders. After being unsatisfied with available products a decision was made to have a custom built product. Six weeks after that decision you had (from above link) "a beautiful, flexible, real time online booking tool running on a server within the clinic and connected to the website - and it offered flexible electronic charting/note taking too."
• Others began to ask about the software so in 2012 a decision was made to create and license a more ambitious product.
• This venture was and is lead by two individuals, one from a clinical practice background, attuned to the needs of the end user community, and one who came from a marketing/branding background with technical expertise. I think there is a message here. How many domain businesses have dual leadership recognizing both end user and domain expertise?
• By 2014 the product launched and quickly grew. Today you have more than 12,000 clients and continue to grow strongly. I see that you have 3 open positions right now, for example.
• While many startups are successful at raising funds but unsuccessful at getting business success (exceptions obviously!) it is important to realize how Jane grew. To quote from your company jobs page: "...we’ve been growing a real business out of our own revenue for over 4 years now. We have the luxury and security of not having a zero-cash date like some some ventured-backed companies."
• I don't know your exact numbers, but was able to find on a third party site (GlassDoor) that your company has 51 to 200 employees and 25 to 50 million dollars per year in revenue. An impressive success story by any measure for a company less than five years old.
• I am sure many aspects went into the decision to use an .app as your major domain name. I personally love the elegance of Jane.app and feel that the move to a secure space, on a TLD currently almost immune from phishing, has numerous benefits. I respect that some do not agree, especially those in the US where the .com assumption is usually true for corporate names.
• I live in your broad region of Canada and realize that affects Google search results, but for me when I search on 'Jane' your Jane.app site is #1 on page 1. A great achievement. Congratulations.
• I admire many things that Jane has done, from growing organically to being co-founded by individuals with very different skills (one in marketing and one in end user expertise). I like that you named yourself after your first customer. As a senior remembering my learning to read books many decades ago I think the "See Jane Run" is pretty clever marketing!

I wanted to respond to one of the negative comments directly, that refers to a controlling difficult leadership. That is so patently untrue that I have asked moderators to remove his post so possibly it will be gone when you read this - I hope so. But for the benefit off those reading this post I wanted to point out that independent reviews (GlassDoor) of those who have worked at your company (18 reviews in total) give you a score of 4.9 out of 5.0 and 100% rate the leadership of the company positively. Let me quote from one of the reviews at GlassDoor:

"I have never worked for an employer that legitimately cared about each and every person and was more than willing to ensure that not only were you a good fit for the job, but that the job was a good fit for you.... it's the people and the love of the product that makes Jane stand out. A company where we don't push sales or track metrics, but rather are concerned that each and every touchpoint with customers is compassionate and thoughtful and genuine."
​

Best wishes for further success. Although I have no association with any aspect of your company, and in fact did not know of it prior to another Canadian starting this thread, I am proud that such a forward looking company is based in western Canada. And once again, on behalf of many members of our community (I hope), I wanted to apologize for the posts by one of our members.

Bob Hawkes

 

[illumy]

I note you are based in US and I suspect this may be more true in the US than the rest of the world. Here I would never guess a .com as odds are better than 50/50 that the business or organization is on a .ca.

But I think the bigger question is ask yourself when is the last time is that you guessed an email and added any extension (as opposed to copying and pasting an email address or filling out a web contact form). I tried to think of this personally, and I can't remember the last time I tried to guess an email address (I am sure it has been many years).

Yes, globally about 46% of websites do use .com, but would you trust something important on a guess? Not me. Actually, of course, we should never trust email for anything critical in any case, which is why in general things like banks, investment firms, taxation people, etc. will not do any customer support via email but instead use some sort of ticketing system.

I note that you say under 40 and it is a good point. I have a perfectly good email address from where I worked for decades. But I find that most young people who need to get in touch with me more often than not try to do so through FB/LinkedIn/TwitterDM etc. as opposed to seeing if my email still works.

Bob

Yea email is barely being used here in mainland China nowadays. Wechat/QQ/DingTalk（all SNS）are used pretty much in all kind of situation. Email is consider a slow and non-effective way of getting response, people/company less and less likely checking their emails on regular basis. This goes for people above 40 as well, people here adapting well to technologies.

 

[MapleDots]

Stop the nonsense dots, they call themselves Jane and they are a software provider, it isn’t simply an app.

They have obvious domain issues and the .app has actually made the confusion worse as they are now bizarrely trying to use two domains. I’m assuming they switched to the .app and then got a bunch of email confusion issues. What a mess.

I was looking for a particular app for one of my businesses and that is how I found jane.app.
I was not confused even for a second, it was quite clear to me how they were marketing themselves.

In the end I decided to go with a different company but from the dozen or so companies I reviewed before making my decision the jane.app domain left an impression on me and I remembered it. Most of the others I could not remember the domain unless I checked my bookmarks.

SOrry to disagree... its not a mess, it's progressive forward thinking especially because they have a .com with a ,atching .app.

I say kudos to them...

The only mistake they are making is with the email and I hope to god that both the .com and the .app is active.

 

[MapleDots]

Doesn’t really mean as much when you consider that they probably paid about nothing for the Jane dot app domain.

Isn't that the whole point? Why pay more if you don't have too?..... I paid almost nothing for MapleDots.com and if Maple.Dots became available it would be a natural progression for me to add that one as a quick shortcut. Personally I would forward it to MapleDots and I would do the same with jane.app, I would forward it to janeapp.com.

Perfect domains though for quick shortcuts.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Canada, business mainly use .ca？ and users by default will not expect .com？not aware this, then after .de, .co.uk .ru which I aware, we have another big country dominated by cctld...

then, another question, if more and more country (specially big country which have more ecnomic or political impact)running business on its related cctld, does .com still the king？

I would not say it is dominated, and most of the biggest companies here do own both the .com and the .ca in their name, especially if they operate internationally. The .ca is doing well - in the most recent CENTR report .ca was the fastest growing of the top 15 country code extensions in the world. Various surveys have shown that .ca is highly respected and accepted among Canadians, which makes sense because it's level of abuse is an order of magnitude less than .com.

The key point is that even most companies that are huge and international have a separate .ca website just geared to Canadian customers with product availability, shipping, etc. set. So for example I virtually never search on Amazon.com but rather use Amazon.ca. Same with WalMart - I do online shopping but always through their .ca domain name. Almost all of Canada's financial, investment, etc. work with Canadians through their .ca. Small businesses sometimes use .com but many, I think majority, use .ca. Most organizations use .ca (or .org). My point is that one would never guess and assume it is .com here. There is a better chance it would be a .ca.

Bob

 

[illumy]

Co’s can still do well despite mistakes.

Doesn’t mean it is a good idea to buy domains in bad extensions, especially for domainers who are supposed to be skilled in the area.

Consider it.....

Another "probably" "non-advised" company from Netherlands rebrand and redirect their original .COM site from okit.com to .APP site ok.app. Since you are in most arguments the odd one out, ever consider that maybe you are the one being outsmart by most people in this forum instead of the other way around? Maybe this "over controlling person in management who won’t seek or listen to advices and just make a decision themselves" fit in more with your characteristic demonstrated here all this time? since you are usually the one being disagreed by most if not all "supposed to be skilled" domainers here?

Consider it...

 

[Morgo]

Won’t take long before the problems start.

Haha, maybe. We view this as a huge opportunity. No one downloads apps anymore - distribution is a total pain. Our team worked in venture before this, and saw it first hand over the last 6 years. We've been tracking changes on the web and app stores very closely (Google/Oracle Java lawsuit and why Fuchsia matters, native app stores + antitrust and why a non-native option will be important for apple+G, how MSFT is betting on PWAs, w3c developments like payment request API and others). We're going to make our current web app a pwa (simply add manifest and service worker) to get people out of their mobile browser (yes, people do have different expectations in mobile browser vs. app) and into a native app-like container.

We felt like prompting users to install our web app to their home screen makes sense from a .app. This is going to be a new dynamic for users and they should expect an "app" and not a "website" even though that's technically what it is. Just our opinion.

 

[Morgo]

Many others have done this

 

[MapleDots]

What a mess, is Jane.com 4 sale?

Not at all a mess, for a business two words are considered a great domain name.
Most small places like this could never afford a one word .com

Given the circumstances I think they're doing not bad.

 

[illumy]

Let's put it this way, people in mainland China above 40 barely use PC or just don't use them at all, unlike in Taiwan, but they use smartphone APPs on daily basis. Wechat is a must for them. So will they use email? Yes but very very few.

 

[Morgo]

What you're insinuating will never happen.

Maybe not at the same scale, but any asset with potential for an asymmetric return profile will initially look like a terrible idea to most.

 

[MapleDots]

Oh please, visit the site, it doesn’t say ‘jane app’ anywhere, there is about 50 references to just ‘jane’ on the page.

They named their app "Jane" after their first customer and they have ALWAYS been called Jane App, since the very beginning. They only do one thing and that is to provide this app to a target audience.

What you are asking is the same as asking "Boston Pizza" to change their name to Boston. The pizza part is an integral part of their business. Same goes for Jane App so the use of Jane App makes sense and there is no need to spend 100k plus to acquire jane.com.

People call me Maple all the time here on the forum, why don't I just drop the "dots" part of my name?
That would not make sense, sure I would love to have maple.com but dropping dots from my business would not make sense.

Same goes for MicroSoft..... what the heck we will just call them micro.com

so on.... so on....

 

[LamsuanlunT]

I like the look and feel of Jane.app but I agree that using their previous .com for email seems confusing. I would use email addresses like info (at) Jane(.)app

Totally agree! email (at) jane (dot) app doesn't look too bad.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I think NPs should rebrand using a .pro to Name(.)pro

I reiterate, as several of us have said here or elsewhere, when TLD availability permit an exact match of their name and nothing more that is highly elegant and clear. More businesses in startup phase should consider these possibilities when they name themselves.

Thanks for bringing this interesting case to our attention, @MapleDots.

Bob

 

[Zilla]

even there is a trend that the online activiity move from PC to Phone , but the most people still by default expect u should have a .com website to visit..also expect u have email＃any.com....

any other extension just an alternative while no more choice....the question is some is good alternative for the desired name, some just bad...it have to be case by case...janeapp.com rebrand to jane.app is quite good in this case.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

most people still by default expect u should have a .com website to visit..also expect u have email＃any.com...

Not in Canada where this company and the majority of their customers are located. If I did that I would be wrong for my 3 banks, my several credit card providers, my library, my orders for all online shopping I do regularly, my car share, most local businesses, my online course providers, all 3 of the insurance companies I use, my retirement investments, essentially all of the local businesses within walking distance of me, etc.

 

[Zilla]

Not in Canada where this company and the majority of their customers are located..

tks Bob, so, in Canada, business mainly use .ca？ and users by default will not expect .com？not aware this, then after .de, .co.uk .ru which I aware, we have another big country dominated by cctld...

then, another question, if more and more country (specially big country which have more ecnomic or political impact)running business on its related cctld, does .com still the king？

I not aware too many other country, but in China, I know for most people .com is more respected extention while also .cn is quite acceptable, and no issue, but we are different than Geman or UK, cctld is much more stronger and more trustworth for them I guess....

I need learn more cctld situation now...any one have more sense on cctld status？

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I think some people have missed what I read as the key point of this thread that @MapleDots started. It was not at all "oh a successful company is using an .app, maybe good domain investment to invest in those" - he was definitely not saying that, and I suspect from other posts he does not believe they are good investments.

What he was saying is that when an end user can elegantly uses a TLD permitting an exact match to their formal company name that can make sense (but make sure the overall online use is consistent).

Well known domain blogger Elliot Silver weighed in today on the topic, for the most part agreeing, but pointing out that they need to highlight the new name more effectively in their branding. A good point.

Can I get something off my chest? If you look down Elliot's note at the comments section well known personality Rick Schwartz has a short critical post. In one comment he manages to call them dumb, stupid (twice), and lazy (4 times including 3 times in one sentence). Now as far as I know he is still in the business of selling domain names. Now in what world does it make sense to call a potential future client names in a public post? If I was a company and read his comment online I would make a note to never ever consider doing business with him. Am I wrong? Does anyone see any upside of using insensitive and rude language in a public setting? If he wants to argue merits of using .com, absolutely smart. But to call names - what does he gain?

Bob