Can a Epik staff sell your domains in redemption?

[NameFu]

I noticed that Epik.com has been putting my domains that are in redemption for sale using their own landers and their own marketing text. Is this even legal? How can they sell domains that could be recovered within the 30 day redemption period? It just doesn't seem like they're entitled to do that legally until after the redemption period. I asked their customer service 3 days ago and they haven't replied, so I'm asking here. I've never seen this before on any other host.

 

[timestamp]

https://www.namepros.com/threads/this-is-how-i-lost-my-domain-name-at-epik-com.1262311/

 

[VadimK]

Guys, long story short. All these renewal/redemption/grace periods depend on registrars, big time. Do not let your valuable domains expire, set auto renewals or numerous alarms (if undecided) when close to exp period.

Good luck!

 

[NameFu]

Guys, long story short. All these renewal/redemption/grace periods depend on registrars, big time. Do not let your valuable domains expire, set auto renewals or numerous alarms (if undecided) when close to exp period.

Good luck!

I call BS on this, because if a company has a TOS that they can't just violate whenever they please. They clearly state that their redemption period is 30 days. I hate this "oh well...if you let your domain expire then it's your fault if your registrar sells your domain during redemption" excuse. That's completely besides the point about a user's right to rescue a domain within 60 days. It's a protocol governed by ICANN right?

Epik has still not replied to my question.

@robmonster you mind helping me to understand your redemption policy, because I find this a bit confusing.

Here's an example - WebXRCoin.com. It's a domain that has been expired for less than 60 days and is in redemption. Yet for the last 2 years you guys have been putting landers on domains like this saying they're for sale... If we have 30 days to recover our domains why is Epik throwing custom sales landers on domains in redemption? Seems ethically wrong, but I want to give you guys the opportunity to explain befure accusing you of anything.

Thanks in advance!

 

[bmugford]

I call BS on this, because if a company has a TOS that they can't just violate whenever they please. They clearly state that their redemption period is 30 days. I hate this "oh well...if you let your domain expire then it's your fault if you lose your domain" excuse. That's completely besides the point about a user's right to rescue a domain within 60 days. It's a protocol governed by ICANN right?

I am not really a fan of how registrars have placed themselves as the middle men in the drop process. It was not designed this way by ICANN.

ICANN though has done nothing to reign it in. They have done nothing to stop registrar warehousing like with Network Solutions via "New Ventures Services" and many others.

I have no problem with drop catchers as they actually have to compete on the open market after the domain is made available to everyone. That is how the drop cycle was designed.

If a registrar is offering a domain for sale, while the registrant still has rights to renew the domain, that is shady to me. I don't care who is doing it. It has kind of become accepted practice, but it is not acceptable to me.

Brad

 

[Rob Monster]

During grace period, the registrar is the one funding the renewal -- the fees are advanced to the registry until the domain is renewed by the registrant or deleted by the registrar.

During that period, the DNS resolves to a Make Offer lander. We show no ads or any content that could be considered grounds for UDRP.

If an offer does come in, and we believe it is legitimate, the registrant is usually notified. The honorable registrants will renew on Epik and if they do choose to sell it, hopefully do it on Epik.

I am quite sure that the general code of conduct at Epik falls comfortably under the "do unto others" category. The folks that assert otherwise almost certainly don't actually use Epik.

 

[bmugford]

During grace period, the registrar is the one funding the renewal -- the fees are advanced to the registry until the domain is renewed by the registrant or deleted by the registrar.

The registrar has very little skin in the game on expired domains. If the domain ends up dropping you get a refund from the registry, so it is essentially just freerolling when it comes to offering it for sale.

If an offer does come in, and we believe it is legitimate, the registrant is usually notified. The honorable registrants will renew on Epik and if they do choose to sell it, hopefully do it on Epik.

I would love to know what "usually" notified means. In what situation would the registrant not be notified exactly?

I am quite sure that the general code of conduct at Epik falls comfortably under the "do unto others" category. The folks that assert otherwise almost certainly don't actually use Epik.

Yeah, I don't think this is an Epik problem exactly. Many registrars attempt to sell expired domains, when the registrant still has rights to renew the domain. Others simply warehouse domains they want and keep them.

It would be nice to have more standardization between registrars. ICANN designed a drop cycle where the domain eventually deletes. It is the registrars who put themselves in the middle for financial gains and lead to a lot of this confusion.

Brad

 

[Fadi H]

Let me tell you my story.

If they already answered you their response should be something like your domain(s) were backordered by someone else and you may make an offer if you are interested in buying them back. While in fact they just warehouse the domains they like after 15 days of expiry and put them for sale.

Unless they got better, That's exactly how they treated a similar case with me previously.

See their policy:

"After the discretionary grace period the customer’s domain is deleted from their account. In most cases, deleted domains may be recoverable for up to a total of 69 days after the expiration date. In the case, where the domain are still eligible to be recovered a restoration fee is assessed."

Guess what happened with one of my domain names after 15 days of expiry, They warehoused it and claimed that someone has placed a backorder on it and the backorder was fulfilled. In the other hand they tried to push me to make an offer as a solution to get the domain back. After that they turned to be lying and they just warehoused the domain and the owner himself confirmed it publicly. ( Said it was an internal backorder )

What should've been the normal process? As the backorder story was fake I should've been able to recover the domain according to their policy as the domain was still under their control and was just a little over 20 days after the expiration date.

As a pathetic try to save the situation the owner of Epik went against Epik policy, Took ownership of the domain while it should've been still recoverable, Decided to get it auctioned and planned what to do with the proceeds.

Refer here for details :
https://www.namepros.com/threads/this-is-how-i-lost-my-domain-name-at-epik-com.1262311/

S/o Dynadot. One of the best registrars. No shady stories and no one will move the domain out of your account after expiration up to 40 days and even after that you may still have a chance to renew it.

 

[bmugford]

Let me tell you my story.

If they already answered you their response should be something like your domain(s) were backordered by someone else and you may make an offer if you are interested in buying them back. While in fact they just warehouse the domains they like after 15 days of expiry and put them for sale.

Is that true? Is Epik warehousing certain domains?
@Rob Monster

15 days is one of if not the shortest timeframes I have seen, especially for legacy extensions.
Is that true?

Brad

 

[bmugford]

S/o Dynadot. One of the best registrars. No shady stories and no one will move the domain out of your account after expiration up to 40 days and even after that you may still have a chance to renew it.

I like Dynadot, but in fairness their expired auctions occur while registrants can still reclaim the domain.
I believe it is after a far longer time than (15) days though. That does seem unreasonably short.

I am also not aware of Dynadot warehousing domains. Everything I have seen was standardized and went to auction using the same process.

Brad

 

[Fadi H]

I like Dynadot, but in fairness their expired auctions occur while registrants can still reclaim the domain.
I believe it is after a far longer time than (15) days though. That does seem unreasonably short.

Brad

Agree. They do auction expired domains after about 35-40 days of expiration I think. But the domains would be still renewable even after the auctions end. And for domains that didn't get bids in auctions they would go "inactive" and recoverable for an additional fee.

Registrant does have choices here.

 

[bmugford]

Agree. They do auction expired domains after about 35-40 days of expiration I think. But the domains would be still renewable even after the auctions end. And for domains that didn't get bids in auctions they would go "inactive" and recoverable for an additional fee.

Registrant does have choices here.

(15) days is far outside the norm when it comes to popular registrars. I can't think of major ones off the top of my head with anything close to that.

30-40 days does seem more like the standard. Most major registrars are in that range from my experience.

My issue more than anything is an irregular process. GoDaddy, Dynadot, and others follow the same process.
They don't warehouse domains. They all go to auction and end 30-40 day after expiration.

When you start introducing irregularities into the process, like "the registrant is usually notified" that feels far less standardized.

Brad

 

[Rob Monster]

This topic has been addressed countless times in other threads but grace periods at Epik can be up to 35 days. We send up to 7 renewal notices -- the customer can adjust how many notices they want in their notification settings. During grace period, no backorders are filled and no offers can be accepted. On day 44 of the expiry cycle, the domains go to Daily Diamonds:

https://www.epik.com/buy/daily-diamonds

Some registries have no grace period or even a negative grace period, so best to renew in time especially with obscure ccTLDs.

If a domain is believed to be a domain not worth dropping, the domain may be renewed by Epik. This is always the case for domains that are being leased or rented where sometimes the domain holder does not renew and in order to avoid breaking the lease, Epik will renew the domain and take over as registrant. If the registrant shows up within a reasonable time, sometimes as much as even a year, they can usually pay the renewal and resume their role as lessor.

In many cases, we have helped a former registrant recover a domain as much as a year past expiry, including earlier this week a very happy customer was able to recover -- for just renewal fee and without penalty -- a set of 8 domains that he never intended to drop in January, and which were thankfully had been spared from redemption and also were never listed in daily diamonds because they were renewed by Epik into an internal escrow account where they remain in a make-offer state.

Long story short: we do try to have our customers ' back, and it does pay to #BeEpik.

 

[bmugford]

This topic has been addressed countless times in other threads but grace periods at Epik can be up to 35 days. We send up to 7 renewal notices -- the customer can adjust how many notices they want in their notification settings. During grace period, no backorders are filled and no offers can be accepted. On day 44 of the expiry cycle, the domains go to Daily Diamonds:

So the grace period can be up to 35 days. That doesn't say much.

What is the shortest in can be? That is more important.

For instance, what is the first day after expiration that Epik can offer the domain for sale and keep the proceeds, or just warehouse the domain because they see value in it?

Brad

 

[Fadi H]

30-40 days does seem more like the standard.

Exactly, I've never seen the 15 ( days ) thing on the registrars I've been dealing with. Else I probably wouldn't have lost that domain and renewed earlier.

 

[bmugford]

If a domain is believed to be a domain not worth dropping, the domain may be renewed by Epik. This is always the case for domains that are being leased or rented where sometimes the domain holder does not renew and in order to avoid breaking the lease, Epik will renew the domain and take over as registrant. If the registrant shows up within a reasonable time, sometimes as much as even a year, they can usually pay the renewal and resume their role as lessor.

The wishy washy language of "usually" twice now is troubling to me.
You need a standardized process.

(15) day redemption periods AND warehousing domains is not acceptable to me personally. But, at least you are not denying that is the case.

Brad

 

[Fadi H]

Question: How long is the grace period on your registrar?
Answer: Can be up to xx days. But we know that "Can be" is face to face with "Can be not".

Wordplay is in domains not company processes.

 

[bmugford]

Question: How long is the grace period on your registrar?
Answer: Can be up to xx days. But we know that "Can be" is face to face with "Can be not".

Wordplay is not domains not company processes.

Yeah, what matters is the minimum not maximum. "Up to" is for some turd domain no one is interested in buying on the aftermarket.

What is the minimum for a domain that is valuable? That is what matters.
(15) days is unreasonably low IMO.

Brad

 

[Fadi H]

Yeah, what matters is the minimum not maximum. "Up to" is for some turd domain no one is interested in buying on the aftermarket.

What is the minimum for a domain that is valuable? That is what matters.
(15) days is unreasonably low IMO.

Brad

Exactly, "Up to" is the same as "most cases" in their TOS.

For valuable domains it's a different matter and here is where shady processes may occur.

 

[NameFu]

My sketchy story with Epik is when I realized they were removing my domains from my account IMMEDIATELY after expiration! They did this for almost a year before onday I realized I lost many domains I had planned to renew late. I complained about it and got an apology with no real explanation 😅....Just that they fixed the issue and that they were sorry. Some of those domains were put up for sale immediately without any auction that I know of... This pissed me the fuck off to out it frankly... But they did fix the issue after I brought it up....

I would move to a different registrar but Epik has the absolute user friendly domain manager combined with competitive renewal prizes, so I'm sticking with them, for now....

 

[NameFu]

It is my personal opinion that registries should leave domains alone during redemption. If someone wants to sell a domain that should be up to them. What if a domain gets an offer that the registry doesn't want to share with the registrant? I'm not saying I don't trust you @robmonster, my point is that this situation shouldn't rely on trust, in the way that there is no issue of domains in redemption being thrown up for sale if technically you don't have a right to sell the domain if we are entitled to 30 days (according to your ToS)

Just my take...

 

[Fadi H]

My sketchy story with Epik is when I realized they were removing my domains from my account IMMEDIATELY after expiration! They did this for almost a year before onday I realized I lost many domains I had planned to renew late. I complained about it and got an apology with no real explanation 😅....Just that they fixed the issue and that they were sorry. Some of those domains were put up for sale immediately without any auction that I know of... This pissed me the fuck off to out it frankly... But they did fix the issue after I brought it up....

I would move to a different registrar but Epik has the absolute user friendly domain manager combined with competitive renewal prizes, so I'm sticking with them, for now....

Unfortunately I don't have a proof if the domain that I had with them was moved out of my account before 15 days ( grace period ) or after. As I didn't check earlier and just came after 15 days to not find it on my account and they claimed that a backorder was fulfilled after 15 days of expiration. But I believe what you saying can easily happen. After they lied to me and tried to sell my expired domain to me, What's more weird to not believe?

But wait a minute! Are they taking domains immediately after expiration? You've just added some minerals to the sea.

Anyhow I hope you a better experience than mine. Goodluck.

 

[NameFu]

Unfortunately I don't have a proof if the domain that I had with them was moved out of my account before 15 days ( grace period ) or after. As I didn't check earlier and just came after 15 days to not find it on my account and they claimed that a backorder was fulfilled after 15 days of expiration. But I believe what you saying can easily happen. After they lied to me and tried to sell my expired domain to me, What's more weird to not believe?

But wait a minute! Are they taking domains immediately after expiration? You've just added some minerals to the sea.

Anyhow I hope you a better experience than mine. Goodluck.

I have email proof of the the complaint and response from staff, but not of how soon the domains were thrown up for sale (I remember it happening *before* the redemption period) ... This was happening for MONTHS. I felt swindled lol....

It's by FAR not the worst registrar though - that title goes to SAV.com forcing you to renew domains you don't want to and denying you a refund. Also denying you the ability to remove your card saying "its a bug we are working on" 😂 shameless SCAMMER! Don't touch @Sav.com if you don't already have names with them. I worry that they could just take my names at any time that's how sketchy they are.

 

[Fadi H]

I have email proof of the the complaint and response from staff, but not of how soon the domains were thrown up for sale (I remember it happening *before* the redemption period) ... This was happening for MONTHS. I felt swindled lol....

It's by FAR not the worst registrar though - that title goes to SAV.com forcing you to renew domains you don't want to and denying you a refund. Also denying you the ability to remove your card saying "its a bug we are working on" 😂 shameless SCAMMER! Don't touch @Sav.com if you don't already have names with them. I worry that they could just take my names at any time that's how sketchy they are.

I actually have a different experience with Sav. I had some DNS and similar issues but overall they were not that bad and were addressing the issues.

Additionally, They are still new to the field and I believe they're improving and already competing bigger registrars by attracting customers with their low marketplace fees, Probably industry cheapest .com backorder fees and also growing inventory on their marketplace.

For your renewal issue, Probably you left auto-renew turned on?

 

[karmaco]

My sketchy story with Epik is when I realized they were removing my domains from my account IMMEDIATELY after expiration! They did this for almost a year before onday I realized I lost many domains I had planned to renew late. I complained about it and got an apology with no real explanation 😅....Just that they fixed the issue and that they were sorry. Some of those domains were put up for sale immediately without any auction that I know of... This pissed me the fuck off to out it frankly... But they did fix the issue after I brought it up....

I would move to a different registrar but Epik has the absolute user friendly domain manager combined with competitive renewal prizes, so I'm sticking with them, for now....

I don’t like the statement about “honorable“ people renew at Epik. How or why someone is at any registrar has nothing to do with honor. Its business. Same for where we sell. These are the kind of cringe statements that make people not like Epik.

Epik likes to step outside the bounds on some things but on this to be fair immediately after exp your name appears on a lander on Dynadot, NameCheap, NameSilo— all of them do this. I do agree it is tacky to have language that its “on offer” immediately at expiration and not wait until redemption is over.