Bidding on your own names at NameJet...?

Discussion in 'Domain Marketplace Reviews' started by webquest, Jul 18, 2017.

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  1. LucidDomains

    LucidDomains LucidDomains.com VIP

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    You don't use a reserve as a "no reserve" auction brings in the buyers instead you guys go into your own auctions and manually bid up the price to a level you're comfortable selling at??

    Incredible. No wonder some of top domainers are doing so well. :xf.eek:

    @NameJetGM Why does your platform even allow this practice?
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
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  2. Jimmy Hoffa

    Jimmy Hoffa Established Member

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    Come on, Andrew! You are trying to provide arguments for a federal crime that may have been committed? Really???

    www[.]nyccriminallawyer[.]com/fraud-charge/auction-fraud/shill-bidding/
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  3. xn--v4h.com

    xn--v4h.com Emoji domains at Punycode.com

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    Really? Someone like me would have thought the arrangement would be something completely different. So unfair for many of us who are unaware and that's wrong.
     
  4. Dream Big

    Dream Big Established Member

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    Happened to me couple of times. I am 100% sure.
     
  5. stub

    stub Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    So are you saying shill bidding is OK, in your opinion?
     
  6. Grilled

    Grilled logged out VIP

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    From the evidence provided, it appears the Booths will be in the clear if they can furnish some sort of documentation proving they sold the domain to current seller and that current seller didn't change the WHOIS.

    However, judging by DNS history, this may be hard to prove. (unless all domains in question sold between 2/2016 and 3/2016 when DNS changed from ParkingCrew to Bodis?)

    upload_2017-7-18_19-16-45.png

    upload_2017-7-18_19-17-17.png

    upload_2017-7-18_19-17-41.png

    upload_2017-7-18_19-18-6.png
    upload_2017-7-18_19-18-38.png

    Note: The DNS changed from ParkingCrew to Bodis for all above domains between 2/1/2016 and 3/1/2016.

    upload_2017-7-18_19-20-6.png
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  7. zurc.net

    zurc.net Restricted ★★★★★★★★★★

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  8. xn--v4h.com

    xn--v4h.com Emoji domains at Punycode.com

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    No he's not saying he supports shill bidding. He's supports the owners being involved in the bidding without a reserve. In theory I can probably support that if I KNOW the owners are involved. Unfortunately that is so far away from what has happened here. People are bidding on domains without the knowledge of the owners being involved. The risk to owners is minimal because they only lose out on the commission fees and get most of their money back but the potential gain is HUGE because the other bidders who truly want that domain would keep on bidding higher and higher, losing more money than if the unknown owner wasn't involved. To me that's stealing.
     
  9. xn--v4h.com

    xn--v4h.com Emoji domains at Punycode.com

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    Do you believe the Booths and their explanation? Anyone else here who believes them? Show of hands please!
     
  10. xn--v4h.com

    xn--v4h.com Emoji domains at Punycode.com

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    Hell he's the only one I follow on this board. He's sharp and I don't even know him.
     
  11. stub

    stub Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    to me that's shill bidding.
     
  12. Grilled

    Grilled logged out VIP

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    it's a stretch, but I believe they are still innocent until proven guilty. (though in the court of public opinion, it doesn't look good)

    Thanks - but I'm often wrong. I like to jump the gun, make accusations for others to investigate, and at the end see what sticks. Just as the WHOIS didn't change, DNS doesn't have to change in the transfer of domains. Just putting that info out there.

    Still waiting for Mr. Booth to provide more details of the sale, including sales date.
     
  13. xn--v4h.com

    xn--v4h.com Emoji domains at Punycode.com

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    It's not technically a shill:
    "Let’s look first at the word, “shill.” Shill means basically to falsely advocate a position in attempts to entice others do follow that lead. For example, Robert opens a music store in Seattle, Washington and Robert enlists his friends and family to blog about how wonderful the service is at this new music store — even though none have even set foot in Robert’s new store."

    Therefore, if you are fully aware the owner is sitting next to you bidding on his own stuff, then that's not really a shill because he's not falsely advocating anything. It's out in the open.
     
  14. mr-x

    mr-x Acme Domains Business Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Historical whois doesn't show the airplanesforsale.com changed ownership.
     
  15. xn--v4h.com

    xn--v4h.com Emoji domains at Punycode.com

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    Yes in actuality I do wish the Booths can clear this all up with documentation and confirmation from the auction house and that this WHOLE thing is one BIG mistake. Then we can all say, wow, I guess the domaining industry ain't so crooked after all and that I was wrong.
     
  16. mr-x

    mr-x Acme Domains Business Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    This isn't a new practice, it's just unethical.

    3. Seller Bidding Sellers who bid at their own absolute auctions create concern in the real estate auction industry. Sellers are prohibited from bidding at their own absolute auction.154 The court in Pyles v. Goller provides an analysis of why.155 On the day of the auction, only the appellee, Goller, and an unknown bidder had registered to bid at the auction.156 However, prior to the auction, the sellers informed the auctioneer that they were considering bidding on the property themselves.157 The auctioneer later testified that “it was his understanding that ‘[at] an absolute auction, the owner does not have the ability to bid on his own property.’”158 Despite these reservations, the auctioneer allowed the sellers to bid at the auction and never announced this fact.159

    https://c.ymcdn.com/sites/acrel.sit...DEA/Hammond-F08-Good_Real_Estate_Auctions.pdf
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  17. domain hacks

    domain hacks Established Member

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    They bid on each other domains, they like each other posts...oh, the humanity!!

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Rick Schwartz

    Rick Schwartz Domain King RicksBlog.com T.R.A.F.F.I.C. PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    This is TOTAL BULLsh*t!!
    These are scams not auctions.
    If you want to set up a system for owners to bid, then do it in the light of day!
    Namejet should shut this down immediately AND a complete audit should be done!!
    Bidders should have the option to walk away from tainted deals!
     
  19. xn--v4h.com

    xn--v4h.com Emoji domains at Punycode.com

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    I'm not your biggest fan but you made good points here.
     
  20. betthelot

    betthelot Active Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Hi Andrew, I understand your theory that allowing the owner to bid on a no reserve auction creates the most perfectly priced market. It's clear you have given this a lot of thought.
    What is against your model is that in an auction environment a major piece of information that bidders use to assess the value of an asset is 'DO OTHERS THINK THE SAME'.
    It helps to validate or give confidence for them to bid higher. Now if the other bidder is the owner most would feel they are being duped, because owners often over value their own assets and therefore winning against the owner means you have more chance of falling prey to the winner's curse i.e. paying over market value because of incomplete information.
    There is no doubt, owners bidding incognito achieves the highest auction prices. Does that truly mean perfectly priced market? No, and here is why: you sacrifice the good will of the auction platform once it becomes clear the auction house is allowing owners to bid and therefore long term, bidders lose confidence and stop bidding in fear they are bidding against the owner. Initially, prices fetched will be higher but as soon as the full information is known to other bidders they will be more circumspect in fear of the winners curse and loss of trust in the auction house.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  21. urlurl

    urlurl Active Member VIP

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    Yes 110% agree...or the winning bidders should at least have the option of buying the names after subtracting all the suspected bids.
     
  22. Grilled

    Grilled logged out VIP

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    ShillBrothers.com and ShillDomains.com available for handreg.

    If no evidence is provided, the Booths may want to reg these domains for broker protection. Brokered by the ShillBrothers, I mean BoothBrothers...

    upload_2017-7-18_20-4-4.png

     
  23. mr-x

    mr-x Acme Domains Business Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Unless Both Bros. can prove they didn't own these names, they should be awarded to the last good faith bid.




    What does state law say about the seller bidding? First, almost all state law says that if the seller may only bid at a “with reserve” type auction. Secondly, that if the seller wants to reserve the right to bid, that such must be disclosed to the other bidders. Third, that if the seller bids without such disclosure, that the high bidder on property on which the seller bid can take the property at the last good faith bid prior to the seller bidding.

     
  24. mr-x

    mr-x Acme Domains Business Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Unless Booth can prove they didn't own these names, they should be awarded to the last legit bidder.
     
  25. hookbox

    hookbox Active Member VIP

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    If Namejet actually enforces their own rules and ends this bullsh*t then names are going to get real cheap, real fast. :)

    I would love to know how many auctions I got f*cked on!
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017

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