NameLot

Bidding on your own names at NameJet...?

Located in Domain Marketplace Reviews, started by webquest, Jul 18, 2017

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  1. 904.com

    904.com Established Member

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    Sent message to iftheywontauditwewill email address. Transparency and integrity need to be brought to this industry for everyone's future success.

    Trying to figure out how to post on this message board without getting flagged. Think because the email address. Hope this posts.
     
    The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
  2. offthehandle

    offthehandle . VIP

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    Exactly. I said that at the beginning of the thread.

    Shill bidding like this will never go away, especially when comments made throughout this thread fully documents those who understand how to game the system and those who do not or will not. Thanks for identifying yourselves. Greed here is the same as anywhere. It's naive to trust this system or others. These are well run, organized unscrupulous operations. Btw, look over at pheenix auctions today, an increase in 2 english word seller auctions.... find out who they are.
     
  3. offthehandle

    offthehandle . VIP

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    @Eric Lyon This thread has the appearence of a few new accounts created for purposes of anonymity and hiding their previous handles. @StevenG did that as he admitted. Or am I wrong?
    I hope so. Who are these new posters anyway? Are these
    @904.com I cant believe you are a newbie.
     
  4. Recons.Com

    Recons.Com Top Contributor VIP

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    No, you shouldn't be allowed to bid on your family member's auction, as that is pretty much definition of shill bidding:

    Shill bidding happens when anyone—including family, friends, roommates, employees, or online connections—bids on an item with the intent to artificially increase its price or desirability.
    pages.ebay.com/help/policies/seller-shill-bidding.html

    Your winning some of those is not proof of your clean intention to win the name, as the best and easiest way to do that is call your brother and agree the price. Your winning of the names could well be just a side effect, as you have to be prepared to sometimes win the names. As Michael's analysis showed, if you fine tune the practice, you'll end up winning about 7% of names, however the reward in the auctions where you did not win but helped to drive the price up will compensate that by factor of 10, 20, 30, 40 times or more.

    @NameJetGM this has to be clearly in the policy that

    a) one alias per business/person
    b) bidding on family, friends, business associates etc. beyond your normal pattern for unrelated auctions will lead to ban. If you going to bid $501 for western prem LLLL.com, then do it for everyone of those in similar ratio, not 80% friends/associates, 5% others.
     
  5. jaybuk

    jaybuk Upgraded Member Blue Account ★★★★★★★★★★

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    @BoothDomains 60K views and over 1200 replies to this thread and this is what you have to add? Really???
     
  6. offthehandle

    offthehandle . VIP

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    Creators of a market. Market makers. This is a churning operation. Pump and dump over and over. But they aren't very smart posting defensive self evident ethical problems. Nothing will change my mind.
     
  7. 904.com

    904.com Established Member

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    I'm not a newbie domain investor. Started hand registering domains in college Feb '99. Im a long term investor and dont buy/sell, mainly just hold, so in the past didn't have much of a reason to post here. After seeing what you guys were doing I was impressed and wanted to contribute. Richard
     
  8. offthehandle

    offthehandle . VIP

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    Welcome to Namepros! Thanks for clarifying and I will take you at your word. I just used your handle as convenience as an example since it was recent post and this huge thread I need go back 1209 posts and mention all the other strange ones to be fair. Please keep commenting and participating! We need more people participating in this forum and certainly have much to offer if you have that many years at this.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
  9. maksimfa

    maksimfa Top Contributor VIP Trusted Contest Holder

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    I am only on page 19 of this AMAZING Drama.... but I will say the whole thing so far about people bidding on their own domains.... no costs? HAHAHA.

    What no one has mentioned so far is artificially increasing the value of your domains via shill bidding.

    For Example.

    You have a domain worth $500. You put it on an auction site and for whatever reason you now have it won with a shill account for $5,000.

    What happens then?

    We all know thanks to NameBio @Michael and others, there is a record of that price.
    Estibot will even adjust its own value based on new auction data.

    You now artificially increased your "domain value" from $500 to the $5k range... after all, someone else was willing to pay it and now you can point to past sales and new updated estibot value as you relist it.

    EVEN if you do not get $5k, you may get $2k.... but you still made money, even after paying the original shill bid auction fee.

    Okay, now back to reading. =)
     
  10. BrandYourself

    BrandYourself Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    The consequences of the totally illegal practice of Shill bidding will mean that prices for certain types of name now will plummet
    and possibly take years to recover (if ever)

    Anyone that bought these domain types at the top of the market has been totally screwed over twice

    1 They paid a multiple of the real market value in the first place and all due to a fraudulent organised crime syndicate
    2 They will now have to hold for years (or more) to get anywhere near breakeven

    and NJ are merely being seen to be doing something about this as they are in full damage limitation mode

    Well done the shill syndicate!
    I doubt any of them will lose any sleep over the lives (& finances) ruined by their crimes
     
  11. 904.com

    904.com Established Member

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    Thank you. As I mentioned in a previous post in this thread I am a Certified Public Accountant. Im not saying to trust me just because of that. However, I would not still be holding my license after 15 years if I were a liar. My actions and statements are held to a different standard than most (by the Texas State Board of Public Accountancy).
     
  12. ShillGate

    ShillGate New Member

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    Why are you making false accusations that we are making false accusations?? We are just repeating and highlighting what has been brought up in the community discussion to help people follow along.

    @BoothDomains
     
  13. Bram C.

    Bram C. AlmightyDomains.com + HeroForYou.com VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    This has been mentioned multiple times already.
     
  14. Hemanttilotia

    Hemanttilotia Established Member

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    Here are some developments that I think are worth sharing.
    I had lodged a formal complaint with NJ, giving them the details of all the domains that I won on NameJet where I suspected shill bidding.
    NameJet denied that the seller (Oliver) was engaged in shill bidding, but said that as a matter of good will and to restore faith , they're ready to cancel the auctions for those domains and pay me my amount back.
    I got similar response from NameJet GM Jonathan, who I think is trying actually hard, to sort out the issue and his email seemed genuine.
    I accepted the offer, they took away both the subjected domains instantly and have issued a refund, which I am yet to receive on my card.
    Both bhha.com and erfh.com are back with Oliver.
    And the alias HKDN that I reported to them seems suspended at the moment, though I can be wrong here, but my system hasn't detected any activity from that handle since last 24 hours.
    I ran the model again to see the domains with bids, and as a forum user already pointed out, its remarkably down than before.
    So I guess they have done away with bots and fake ids.
    I am sorry for not replying earlier as I was busy somewhere.
     
  15. OralB

    OralB Established Member

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    What I dont understand is why you or your brother would rather pay a 15% commision to NameJet to acquire each other’s names than just consult each other to see if either of you is interested in a domain before listing it in an auction!!!!!!!
     
  16. Nat Hunt

    Nat Hunt Top Contributor VIP Gold Account

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    That's odd because we know that Oliver extensively bid on his own auctions.
     
  17. offthehandle

    offthehandle . VIP

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    They are part of this inflation operation.
     
  18. xynames

    xynames XYNames.com PRO VIP

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  19. Want2learn

    Want2learn Top Contributor VIP

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    I mentioned this concept already . . . bright minds think alike:)
     
  20. Ategy

    Ategy NameCult.com TheDomainSocial.com VIP Gold Account

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    Maybe brother 1 was hoping to sell a domain for $X but it never got that high and brother 2 saw value at the lower than expected price. I am *NOT* saying that is or isn't the case in this specific case here .. but just giving one of many possible answers to your hypothetical question. It's important to note that aside from the most liquid domains (and even then there are surprises), nobody knows what the end price of a domain listed on auction will be ahead of time.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
  21. Ategy

    Ategy NameCult.com TheDomainSocial.com VIP Gold Account

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    Maybe nobody specifically mentioned it because it's the entire point of shill bidding! ;)

    If it weren't for those concerns this topic wouldn't have existed in the first place.


    There actually is a secondary reason for shill bidding on many domain auction platforms, and that's to track and/or keep a record of a domain auction. I'm thinking more than 50% of $69 NameJet bids (on domains with more than a handful of bids) fall into that category. But with the larger amounts in question here that really isn't the case.
     
  22. promo

    promo Member

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    How is that shill bidding? You place a minimum fee backorder along with 100s of other people, that does not drive up the price. No reason to do it on your own auctions since you get a detailed auction report.
     
  23. Ategy

    Ategy NameCult.com TheDomainSocial.com VIP Gold Account

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    lol .. part of the problem here is that there seems to be a few variant definitions of what a shill bid actually is (no need to quote me yours .. I'm just saying that irregardless as to whether yours is wrong or right .. there are differing versions .. lol)

    To some a shill bid is a bid that is made without the intention of winning the domain. So by that definition a $69 bid would qualify.

    I've also seen a couple of people warning of multiple $69 bids being withdrawn at the last minute so that someone is left on the hook paying the $69 who might not have had the intention of buying (just tracking). I have no idea if that is true though .. just that it's true that somebody was concerned about it. *IF* that were possible though, then yes a $69 later withdrawn bid could indeed have driven the price from $0 to $69 (logically speaking .. even if that does sound kinda weird saying it .. lol .. essentially artificially hyping up a domain that otherwise would never had sold)

    ADDED: Also just by having more people at $69 you are adding to the "perceived" value. An auction with 100 x $69 bidders is going to have vstly more traffic and eyeballs than an auction with 2 x $69 bidders,
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
  24. deez007

    deez007 The More I Learn The Less I "Know" VIP

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    Olvier, I am not making any accusations at all. I am asking because I find this a little baffling....

    You say that you have an automated bidding system, assuming you had this custom made or you coded it yourself. Now, I'm not a programmer but I have on various occassion for various reasons been invloved with software development lifecycles...so I have some understanding of the process, what I find odd is that you say that you are working on a "fix" to be able to exclude all your domains... like I said, I am not a programmer but surely all this would entail is having a database of all your domains that the bidding system would call upon before bidding and then omit itself from bidding on domains in this database. I would imagine that is not a difficult function to add, or am I missing something here? (perhaps a developer/programmer here could clarify this for us?) - I'm sure that you fully understood that bidding on your own domains is a problem and not a small one, I would have thought that knowing fully well what the implications are of biding on your own domains.. you would have resloved this "bug" before you even went live with your automated bidding system?. It's almost like Porsche releasing a new model in their range that looks awesome and peformes like a beast but the brakes dont work yet they release it anway saying..."we will sort the brake problems out soon". :xf.confused:

    @Oliver Hoger - Would appreciate your views on this....
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
  25. Arca

    Arca Top Contributor VIP

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    Did NameJet take action against Oliver's 'seek' account?
     

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