NameSilo

Bidding on your own names at NameJet...?

Located in Domain Marketplace Reviews started by webquest, Jul 18, 2017.

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  1. Arca

    Arca Top Member VIP

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    In his daily blog post today, Domain Shane reports that TLDPros has taken part in "unnatural bidding at Namejet", which he reported to NameJet. Kudos to Shane, while most of the bloggers stay silent when industry figures and companies/blog sponsors get exposed, he dares to speak up when there is sufficient evidence to do so (he criticized Dicker, while most bloggers stayed mum). He comes off as one of the more principled and ethical parties in the domain industry, compared with a lot of other "thought leaders" and prominent domainers.

    However, this is how his report about TLDPros went:
    "Long story short, TLD claimed they didn’t realize what they were doing was wrong. Namejet gave them a chance to continue if they let the auctions continue naturally."

    In other words, they did not take a strong stance against them, which was echoed today when we saw NameJet's initial lackluster investigation into and response to the issues highlighted in this thread.

    I don't know the nature of TLDPros "unnatural bidding" at NameJet, but they are still heavily promoted by NameJet...
    tldpros.png
     
    The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
  2. Michael

    Michael NameBio.com NameBio Staff PRO ICA Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Unfortunately I found two more featured auction pages that appear to be Oliver:

    http://www.namejet.com/featuredauctions/2cpd2hzh
    http://www.namejet.com/featuredauctions/7syi4nah

    So now here are the totals from the two accounts I'm pretty sure are him:

    6ifd5lvs - Seek bid on 18, winner8888 bid on 318.
    8fyd9zfl - Seek bid on 17, winner8888 bid on 286.
    9rev0pcj - Seek bid on 46, winner8888 bid on 217.
    2cpd2hzh - Seek bid on 25, winner8888 bid on 261.
    7syi4nah - Seek bid on 42, winner8888 bid on 54.

    That's a total of 1,284 auctions that are suspect.

    A few hours ago I got an interesting email from someone who wishes to remain anonymous saying that "hkdn" is suspected to be Oliver as well. I can't find any direct link because the WHOIS is always the same (and fake) when this account wins, at least after spot checking a bunch. But then I noticed something interesting:

    6ifd5lvs - HKDN bid on 935, won 84, and was the runner up in 432.
    8fyd9zfl - HKDN bid on 1035, won 75, and was the runner up in 403.
    9rev0pcj - HKDN bid on 1271, won 64, and was the runner up in 625.
    2cpd2hzh - HKDN bid on 841, won 56, and was the runner up in 409.
    7syi4nah - HKDN bid on 1115, won 100, and was the runner up in 464.

    That in and of itself is not interesting other than the huge volume, 5197 auctions bid on, but where it gets interesting is that 72% of the public auctions this account has ever participated in were Oliver's. Highly suspicious, but circumstantial.

    And there were several examples of domains that were auctioned by Oliver, won by HKDN, WHOIS changed to the fake one, and then changed back to Oliver a couple of months later. Again I'm out of WHOIS history queries so I can't independently confirm this, but the source seems solid. Plenty of potential explanations for that so still nothing definitive as far as this alias is concerned, but NJ should still look into it.

    If that alias is also Oliver, this already-serious problem just got 5x worse. And this account is by far the most aggressive at pushing bidders up.
     
  3. tldboss

    tldboss Top Member VIP

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    No, I did not miss the point.

    Are you happy with the purchase?
     
  4. Beezy

    Beezy Top Member VIP

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    @tldboss see the post directly above yours.
     
  5. equity78

    equity78 Top Member TLDInvestors.com TheDomains Staff PRO Gold Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    @Michael is one of the brightest minds in the business.
     
  6. karmaco

    karmaco Top Member VIP

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    This thread is a real eye opener especially for a newb. I find it pretty disturbing that so many domainers have apparently gotten domains for artificially inflated prices and how consistently NameJet sales show up on the top sales of the day list. Its like the Wizard of Oz "Pay not attention to the man behind the curtain".

    Its one thing to know and agree to a set price. Another thing entirely to be manipulated into paying more by the owner, a brother, friend or associate. What a racket. All parties who have done this should be ashamed of their fraud. Let's call it what it is- perpetrating fraud on another domainer intentionally.

    This level of greed is not good where an anything goes situation happens for certain people scratching each other's backs at someone else's inflated expense. Did I think this business was full of angels with halos? No.

    But this kind of thing makes you question the entire industry and wonder what is smoke and mirrors and deceit and what isn't. Trust is a hard thing to build in the first place. Then you read stuff like this and get even more skeptical. You guys who have been at this for years and years you must have spines of stainless steel.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  7. Hemanttilotia

    Hemanttilotia Established Member

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    Thanks. Exactly my point, that this HKDN guy knew about the reserve and just made a bid that was just short of the reserve.
    I too think it's Oliver only.
    I would request DSAD staff and Shane to clarify as to why they removed content from May 14th article about HKDN.
    It's getting indexed on Google but not there in the post.
    I think they got some warning from NameJet, their sponsors, or were asked by Oliver to put that down.
    If NameJet asked them, then I think NameJet would be in deep trouble here.
     
  8. tldboss

    tldboss Top Member VIP

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    @Beezy I am not defending wrong doers.

    I have read the post. I have read the whole thread, this is upsetting because I like most members here have spent a lot of money on NJ.

    At least NJ need to come here and provide an update. The figures (commissions) being discussed are huge, surely there should have noticed that something was wrong earlier. Thanks to OP for bringing this up. @Hemanttilotia I am with you 100% do what needs to be done & contact NJ with your findings.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  9. tld_org

    tld_org Established Member

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    @NameJet - you better pull your head out of your ass and start answering.

    1. Why was a person allowed to sell domains if their info was not in the whois?

    2. Technically in the system, are people who sell domains able to submit a bid from their same account for a domain that they are selling?

    3. Are you aware with the auctions concerning user Seek that Michael from Namebio is publishing? Or are you grossly incompetent and unable to run fair auctions? Or do you just turn a blind eye because you're making more money?

    If anyone spent a ton of money on these auctions that allegedly were run up I'd like to see this go to court and see what comes out of the discovery period.
     
  10. Beezy

    Beezy Top Member VIP

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    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  11. Arca

    Arca Top Member VIP

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    This is really disturbing if true. The HKDN account is extremely active in NameJet auctions. I have bought many names where the price was driven up by HKDN... And I just checked last few days auctions records for short names, and HKDN was among the highest or the second highest bidder for a lot of them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  12. equity78

    equity78 Top Member TLDInvestors.com TheDomains Staff PRO Gold Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    The majority of domainers will not allow you to be blackballed, after this anyone messing with you in an unfair manner will feel the wrath of thousands of small to mid sized and I think many big domainers. Thanks for the work you did.
     
  13. equity78

    equity78 Top Member TLDInvestors.com TheDomains Staff PRO Gold Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I posted right at the beginning on TheDomains.com and there are a lot of comments there, but I tell people make sure to come back here as the bulk of the data is here.
     
  14. tldboss

    tldboss Top Member VIP

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    maybe @Domain Shane can respond to your query
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  15. equity78

    equity78 Top Member TLDInvestors.com TheDomains Staff PRO Gold Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    NameJet advertises with very few (DSAD.com/DnGeek.com) so that shouldn't be a concern. I know no advertising here at Namepros or 4 blogs I write for. And as always on TheDomains/TLDinvestors we tell sponsors if we see something we don't like or have suggestions, we will discuss privately and also we will write about them publicly.

    Full disclosure NameJet advertised on TheDomains late 2014, early 2015.
     
  16. Hemanttilotia

    Hemanttilotia Established Member

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    I have been associated with more failed startups than successful ones. I can stand failure but can't allow someone to make a fool out of me.
    It has hurt.
     
  17. Recons.Com

    Recons.Com Top Member VIP

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    Thank you for this!

    Now we can get down to math and @MediaOptions can see why this is wrong:

    5197 auctions, let's assume average sale price of $500 for total revenue of around $2,500,000 (assuming $0 for those that did not sell)

    NJ's cut: $250,000, so they have obvious financial incentive.

    Now they seem to win around 7% of their auctions and are runner up in about 45%, which means they really have learned to tune up their gaming of the bidders. And even when they are not runner-up, they fake the sense of urgency and desirability of the names.

    So for 7% names they win, they had to pay out of pocket commission of around $17,500. But if they managed to drive up the end sales in average by 30%, then that is more than compensated by over $650,000 made additionally.

    Again, some numbers are assumptions, but feel free to adjust them a bit higher/lower and you'd still see how they have earned $xxx,xxx by gaming the system and having no genuine intention/interest in winning the names back. In fact, the winning back scenario is the undesirable one and they have perfected it so well that they do it only in 7% of cases.

    For NJ, most of that $250,000 commission only from this part of investigation wouldn't have happened, as these guys wouldn't bring those names to platform without knowing that they'd get blind eye for shilling practice.
     
  18. Arca

    Arca Top Member VIP

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    HKDN example:

    SGTO.com was auctioned on NameJet by Oliver Hoger 4 days ago, here is prior WHOIS for this name:
    SGTO whois.png

    HKDN (Oliver Hoger) was the second bidder in the NameJet auction for his own domain, SGTO.com. Taryn (Frank Schilling) won the auction:
    SGTO Namejet.png
     
  19. DNWon

    DNWon eCommerce Branding Specialist VIP

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  20. Hemanttilotia

    Hemanttilotia Established Member

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    See 'Russel' with $200 above.
     
  21. Domain Shane

    Domain Shane Top Member DSAD.com Staff PRO ICA Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I'm on vacation with my family and will respond tonight. Please do not make assumptions. I will answer any questions. As big as this is my family still trumps it today
     
  22. Hemanttilotia

    Hemanttilotia Established Member

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    See Russel making a usual bid of $200 and HKDN falling just short of reserve. This time Frank made that $10 incremental bid to win this.
     
  23. Silentptnr

    Silentptnr Hey From L.A. VIP

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    Interesting little article about HKDN...
    http://namejetusername.blogspot.com/2016/10/namejet-user-hkdn.html

    And here's a mention from Domain Shane back a few months ago...didn't pay much attention back then...

    WMUK.com I like the name but there is a bidder for all this sellers reserve auctions with the bidder name of HKDN who’s bids are always right below reserve. Not saying that its not legit but I stay away from situations like this when there are patterns. Bidder may not even know the person so not accusations here, just saying take a look. That’s why Namejet put a “look at this seller’s other auctions”
     
  24. Embrand

    Embrand Michael Bilde ICA Member Gold Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    The post is still there, it seems (not sure if I am allowed to link):

    https://dsad.com/domain-shanes-daily-list-domains-auction-sunday-may-14th/

    Kudos to Shane for bringing stuff like this up!
     
  25. JB Lions

    JB Lions Top Member VIP

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