NameSilo

Are newbies increasing the competition?

Labeled as discuss in General Domain Discussion, started by Arpit131, Feb 17, 2020

Replies:
54
Views:
2,703

  1. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

    Posts:
    2,339
    Likes Received:
    2,645
    In my opinion Newbies are helping to make the domain Industry bigger and can give more credibility to domaining if they act responsibly both when it comes to handling their finance and domaining strategies so that they don't come across as people who are addicted to this hobby and can't control themselves and also by acting professionally by not following the wrong paths that would make domainers look like cyber squatters, TM infringers, or spammers.

    All and all Consciousness and Righteous domainers who want to create value through their domains both for themselves and the end users that they sell their domains to can be an important asset to the domaining community and Industry.

    On a side note, my advice to Newbies is to go after quality over quantity both when it comes to buying domains from the aftermarket and also if you are hand registering them yourself. Keeping a small portfolio that you are continuously upgrading when it comes to quality is not only easier on your pocketbook as far as renewals, but it's also a lot less stressful when it comes to maintaining and managing your domains. Playing the numbers game by trying to create a very large portfolio is a very risky endeavor that you might have to wait until you have enough knowledge and experience before you can take on such plans and even then you need to be aware of the fact that only a small percentage of domainers have been able to make large portfolios become profitable as it is very hard to maintain the same level of quality as a portfolio becomes very big.

    IMO
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
    The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
  2. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

    Posts:
    2,339
    Likes Received:
    2,645
    Correction:

    Consciousness = Conscientious

    as in:

    Conscientious and Righteous domainers
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  3. Joe Nichols

    Joe Nichols Common sense consultant VIP

    Posts:
    2,192
    Likes Received:
    4,788
    This is a curious piece of advice... particularly since most of us started doing this precisely because we want to make money.

    If your goal is to kill time and have fun, then domaining is a hobby for you. Which is cool! We all need hobbies, and most hobbies cost money. So heck, why not domain collecting?

    However if your goal (like most) is to have fun while making money, then you must treat this like a business. You must recognize that only certain domain names are truly an investment. And newbies absolutely need to change the way they think. They can't afford to simply buy what feels right and blow money on unfounded chances. They need to examine data. They need to put in the trial and error work. They need to follow examples of successful investors.

    Don't play roulette either (unless you just want to have fun losing money). Terrible odds!
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  4. Reddstagg

    Reddstagg Upgraded Member Gold Account

    Posts:
    519
    Likes Received:
    886
    I do think of this as a business and always call myself a domain investor, although I am the first to admit that I do have the hoarder mentality.

    However, many people who go into business first started out as hobbyists and then realized that they would like to run it as a business. It takes years to turn a profit and domain investing is probably no different.

    There seems to be too much emphasis on selling domains and people are quick to just label you as a newbie who didn't listen because they haven't made any sales.

    This then seeps into the collective psyche of domainers in general and then they too get frustrated as they are not selling their domain names.

    I go on-line several times a day and probably spend 2-3 hours daily organizing myself. I have spreadsheets which keep details of my portfolio as well as my profits and losses. I have lists of lists and maybe/to be registered domain names.

    I watch the news, use social media and interact on NP on an almost daily basis. I listen and learn and I read everything that is available to me (within reason).

    I've a good balanced dot.com/not dot.com portfolio across many different sectors and although I don't always follow the herd, I am never too far away.

    I have a balanced portfolio and a balanced life. I don't have much but I enjoy what I have.

    As they say in Yorkshire, England..."I say what I like and I like what I say"

    I won't just do what everyone else is doing because everyone else tells me what I should be doing, but I will take it on board and then make my own decisions based on more than 50 years at the University of Life.

    Plant based burgers have now crossed over to the mainstream. Try explaining that to the meat eaters. They will denounce it without even trying it.

    Adapt.Evolve.Overcome.

    Regards,

    Reddstagg
     
  5. ThatNameGuy

    ThatNameGuy Restricted (15-30%) Gold Account

    Posts:
    2,501
    Likes Received:
    1,695
    Reddstagg....I've been to Yorkshire 'ol chap on my way from London to Edinburgh. I'm pretty sure while sipping gulping a pint at a Pub one evening I was the one quoted as saying, "I say what I like and I like what I say":xf.wink: Like you, 50+ years at the "University of Life" has turned into a HUGE asset when it comes to the domain business.

    To a certain extent I view you as sort of a clone, only better. I've made the comment a couple of times that you're pretty damn creative, and as such you can probably on an "average day"come up with a half dozen or so domains that many startups or even established businesses would love to be named. Unfortunately not everyone can do that:xf.frown:

    Regardless, i enjoy your work and your commentary. Finally, do you have a Linkedin bio? Mine is easy enough to find via my profile, and thanks for being you and not one of the herd:xf.rolleyes:
     
  6. Reddstagg

    Reddstagg Upgraded Member Gold Account

    Posts:
    519
    Likes Received:
    886
    Good evening,

    One of my favourite quotes in life is this:

    "You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you're all the same."

    That sums me up brilliantly. I don't think I'm better than anyone else. I just build the box and then think outside of it.

    Some of the names I registered today were found by spending four hours going through and researching a hyphenated domain name thread on NP which was started back in 2016. People were listing hyphenated names and speculating when they would start selling.

    I guess the people held them for a few years and waited for them to take off but the weren't patient enough.

    A couple of diamonds from the rough...Fourrrrrrr!

    I've read quite a few of your posts and you seem to have had your fair share of successes. This is a game and you play it well. Not everything can be learned, you have to live it. Wild and fast at times but at least you had a life.

    I am willing to learn from just about anybody and I wish that more people would engage with me as I think we could learn from each other.

    Whenever I had psychosomatic testing for job interviews I always came out as the creative/ideas guy. I always found the problems and suggested solutions rather than just moaning about the nitty gritty.

    This is a long journey and I am learning new angles every day.

    After my first year, I'm still standing and I'm not broke yet so I must be doing something right.

    Never fully got into linkedin as it p*ssed me off by suggesting hundreds of people who had also worked at 'Self-employed' and encouraged me to link up with them as I may know them.

    I will keep the Newbie flag flying but don't know when I have to hang up my boots and become a proper grown up domain investor.

    Keep up the good work.

    Regards,

    Reddstagg
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
  7. Zilla

    Zilla SOLD or DROP VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

    Posts:
    1,555
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    You guys have so many time to write those long post...I just want welcome more people to join with embition and enthusiasm and a deep wallet, they are represent the addtional $ to the market in the end.
     
  8. HappyW

    HappyW Collector VIP

    Posts:
    940
    Likes Received:
    410
    90% of people will insist on a loss for 1-2 years and exit,
    5% of people will sell a small number of names,
    3% of people will make money,
    and 2% will be rich.

    Real buyers strive for excellence, not ordinary. And the names held by those 90% would be worthless,but they will help the remaining 10% with promotion.

    So ,I welcome newbies very much.
     
  9. Joe Nichols

    Joe Nichols Common sense consultant VIP

    Posts:
    2,192
    Likes Received:
    4,788
    Is there any data that supports these numbers?

    I'm genuinely curious, not trying to be a jerk. It's just that a lot of us here make similar statements, but I've never seen any actual research to this effect.
     
  10. HappyW

    HappyW Collector VIP

    Posts:
    940
    Likes Received:
    410
    Not data, only Pareto‘s principle.

    If you need to calculate carefully, you can use the annual expiration and sales amount to analyze, where the sales amount is greater than 5000, and the sales amount is greater than 10,000 for two intervals. I think this might give you the answer you want.
     
  11. Infinity

    Infinity Love God Love Life

    Posts:
    1,411
    Likes Received:
    175
    before owning your own domain (HTML) becomes mainstream I believe, other than new terms forming, is .com drying up faster?


    -have a special day
     
  12. Joe Nichols

    Joe Nichols Common sense consultant VIP

    Posts:
    2,192
    Likes Received:
    4,788
    I'm not sure how that would show that only 3% of people who enter into domaining make money.

    Wouldn't the Pareto Principle just predict that at least 80% of sales dollars come from 20% of sales? That's not the same as speculating that 97% of domain investors operate at a loss each year.
     
  13. HappyW

    HappyW Collector VIP

    Posts:
    940
    Likes Received:
    410
    My estimates have not been rigorously calculated, just estimates.
    And if you need to verify,All you need is to perform mathematical operations in units of one year and you will get accurate results.
    I have already posted the XYZ value, you only need to take some time to try it to know. Moreover, the number of people and the number of domains can be solved by calculus. Please just try.
     
  14. Joe Nichols

    Joe Nichols Common sense consultant VIP

    Posts:
    2,192
    Likes Received:
    4,788
    Sadly, I don't think my math skills are up to the task. But it seems to me that there are too many unknowns to be able to accurately predict how many domain investors are profitable. Not that I mind... Being part of the top 3% in any field would certainly have a lot of panache!

    Anyway, I was just curious to know if you had some more concrete information. No worries. :)
     
  15. HappyW

    HappyW Collector VIP

    Posts:
    940
    Likes Received:
    410
    I don't have completely accurate numbers, and I also want to see completely accurate data. However,I think this is an impossible task.Or in other words, this topic doesn't change anything for us
     
  16. tracey sclater

    tracey sclater Established Member

    Posts:
    375
    Likes Received:
    691
    Where did you start . Big competition in all aspects of anything you care to mention .
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
  17. frank-germany

    frank-germany domainer since 2001 / musician VIP

    Posts:
    8,129
    Likes Received:
    10,658


    https://namebio.com/blog/dont-shoot-for-the-moon/



    -quote start

    Rob Monster of Epik recently started an interesting discussion over at NamePros about “shooting the moon” when selling your domains. Basically the premise was that you don’t know how much the buyer would be willing to pay, so you might as well ask for an astronomical number and see what happens.

    After all, you can’t get a high price if you don’t ask… right? Plus you can always offer a lease as a cheaper alternative, or you can walk your price back down.

    For 99.99% of you this is terrible advice. Why?

    Because getting a crazy sale is a numbers game, and you don’t have the numbers.

    By the Numbers
    Mike Mann is notorious for selling seemingly mediocre domains for shocking prices. I hear this all the time from new investors, and also surprisingly from some seasoned players:

    If Mike Mann can sell something bad like AnimalsUnited.com for $39k why can’t I do the same? Maybe I should raise my prices… my domains are better than that one.

    Well maybe, but you don’t own 352,316 of them.

    Let’s look at how Mike Mann actually prices his names:

    Range Number Percentage
    $250 or Less 1,368 0.4%
    $500 or Less 9,026 2.6%
    $1k or Less 20,257 5.7%
    $1.5k or Less 32,744 9.3%
    $2.5k or Less 81,661 23.2%
    $5k or Less 134,837 38.3%
    Higher than $5k 217,479 61.7%
    Higher than $10k 175,426 49.8%
    Higher than $25k 68,358 19.4%
    Higher than $50k 20,090 5.7%
    Higher than $100k 3,863 1.1%
    50% of his names are priced at four figures or less, 38% are priced in the sweet spot at $5k or below, and 6% of his names are even priced in the three-figure range. Even the poster boy for ridiculously awesome sales is not just blindly shooting for the moon on every domain.

    In the past year Mike Mann has reported 25 sales in the five-figure range. While he probably doesn’t report every sale, that is only a 0.014% sell-through rate for names in that range.

    Let’s pretend for a minute that your entire portfolio was of similar quality to the cross-section of names he has priced at $10k+, and that you priced them all $10k+.

    At that rate, if you own 500 domains it would take you around 14 years to get a single sale. If you only own 100 domains you would only make one sale your entire life.

    For most of you, if you shoot for the moon you’re going to end up missing and floating around in space until you suffocate. Dark, I know… but it’s true. You won’t make any sales, you’ll bleed money from renewals and new acquisitions, and you’ll eventually say the domain industry is rigged and rage quit.

    Survivorship Bias and Retail Comps
    Retail comps have no predictive value whatsoever. If Mike Mann sells a mediocre domain for mid five-figures that says absolutely nothing about what your domain would sell for. Not even if your domain is very, very similar to his or is different but better. Let that sink in for a minute; read it again if you have to.

    Your buyer is not Mike Mann’s buyer when he gets a crazy sale, your buyer is almost always Mike Mann’s buyer when he sells for 3-4 figures. You don’t have enough inquiries to stumble across the person with big plans and an even bigger wallet with any consistency. It might happen once a decade. It might never happen.

    You are not Mike Mann either. He is making multiple sales a day, so if one deal falls through he’s not going to starve. That puts him in a very strong negotiating position. He probably does more end user sales in a day than you do in a year. You can’t afford to not care if a buyer walks, even if you do your best to adopt that attitude to project strength.

    With retail sales all you hear about are the lightning strikes; the big sales; the often lucky sales. You don’t hear about the hundreds of thousands of domains that are overpriced and never get an inquiry. You don’t hear about the people struggling to make renewals because they’re shooting for the moon and missing. And perhaps most importantly, you don’t hear about all the solid sales the seller missed out on trying for that one lottery ticket.

    You only hear the success stories, and that makes you believe you can do it too.

    Why You’ll Probably Never Make a Crazy Sale
    Let’s go back to the $39k sale of AnimalsUnited.com that I mentioned earlier. Crazy right? If only you owned the name that could have been your conquest. But what most people don’t fully appreciate is that to get a sale like that you have to first turn down $500, $1k, $2.5k, $5k, $10k, $15k, $30k, and $35k before you finally get to $39k.

    Could you really turn down a $5k offer on a name you probably got for $50? I know I probably couldn’t. And even if you could… should you?

    It’s much more likely that the buyer ghosts you at that point than increases his offer. At the end of the day you’ll score more by hitting a lot of singles and doubles, than swinging for the fences and striking out 7,000 times in a row (the odds of Mike Mann hitting a home run).

    If you’re not in a position to turn down phenomenal returns you’ll never make those legendary returns. Even if you had the right name, in the right place at the right time, with the right buyer; you weren’t the right seller. Everything has to come together. So stop trying, you’re just scaring away solid sales playing extremely long odds.

    What should I do?
    That depends on where you are now and where you’re trying to get to. Maybe you’re just doing this for fun, you only own 50 good names, and you couldn’t care less if you make a sale as long as you live. If that’s you, by all means, shoot for the moon every time. You’ll probably never make a sale, but who cares.

    I suspect most of you have small to medium sized portfolios, domaining is currently your side hustle, but you’re trying to grow it into a serious revenue stream. If that’s you, don’t get distracted by this sideshow of “shooting the moon”. Price your names reasonably, re-invest into better names after each sale, and be patient and consistent. It will happen eventually.

    Only if you already have a large, high-quality portfolio can you play the lottery game of going for crazy sales and actually win. But like Mike Mann, you should only do it with a small percentage of your portfolio. The rest should be reasonably priced for steady cash flow.

    Regardless of your status, list all of your domains for sale on Afternic and Sedo, price most of them and make it a reasonable number, and opt them into the MLS/DLS so they get into the registration path. If you do that you’ll be ahead of most domain investors, and well on your way to growing your portfolio.

    37SHARES
    Tweet
    Share
    Share
    [​IMG]
    Michael Sumner
    Michael Sumner is the CEO of NameBio.com, and is the lead developer at State Ventures which owns and operates geo domains such as OceanCity.com and Maryland.com. Michael is also the co-founder of DN Media, a company that has been involved in seven figures worth of domain name transactions.



    -- quote ends
     
  18. karmaco

    karmaco Top Contributor VIP

    Posts:
    2,184
    Likes Received:
    5,122
    Psst Redstagg most of us got into this to make money and so do focus on selling.

    I appreciate the hobbyists and fall into that category in some ways but for some people especially in some countries—this is serious stuff and an income enhancement they might not otherwise obtain through just a day job. To some people, even a smaller sale is a gold mine to their daily quality of life.
     
  19. Rob Monster

    Rob Monster CEO, Epik Epik.com Staff PRO VIP Gold Account

    Posts:
    3,896
    Likes Received:
    15,010

    Sure, and he is relying on data where:

    1. The seller mostly did not know who the buyer was.

    2. The seller more than likely responds slowly.

    These are fixable problems.

    I like Michael Sumner. He and I have had extensive discussions since he wrote that piece and we look forward to support NameBio.

    We are working on something novel that we think NameBio customers will really appreciate -- a real-time feed of domain OFFERS.

    We won't be publishing domain sales, but we think it might be fascinating to share what domains are getting verified offers, and to encourage the rest of the industry to publish that anonymized data.

    Make Offer is more work but the pay-off is bigger for those who do the work. Fact.
     
  20. Reddstagg

    Reddstagg Upgraded Member Gold Account

    Posts:
    519
    Likes Received:
    886
    Good point and thank you. Maybe I am just different for many reasons. I am enjoying my journey more than the future end destination. I've spent money on domain names which I could just about afford to spend but it is not the end of my world if I don't make a sale. I'm about a year into this journey now and have about 250 names. There's a good spread between dot.com and notdot.com and I have covered many different industries/niches.

    I'm not into any one particular area too deep so won't be affected too much if it doesn't take off. Every few years or so I get the opportunity to blow a hundred bucks in a casino in the hope that I win, but it doesn't crush me if I don't win. I never chase my losses and know when to quit. If you like, it gets it out of my system.

    I'm from a nation that bets on two flies walking up a wall so it's not something I want to get into. We're Irish. We drink, we gamble and we fight.

    I haven't sold any domains yet and I'm still here and enjoying myself as much as ever. I'm learning new skills and keeping my mind active and I'm meeting new people who I can learn from and gradually I will decide which direction I am going to move into.

    Until that time, I'll just be here. Watching and learning.

    Regards,

    Reddstagg
     
  21. Reddstagg

    Reddstagg Upgraded Member Gold Account

    Posts:
    519
    Likes Received:
    886
    Thank you for your reply.

    I know that selling is important but if it begins to consume you then you start to make rash decisions and you are then buying and selling just to make money. This is probably fine for those who are able to flip a domain name but if your strategy is anything other than that you must use balanced reasoning when thinking about any sale.

    If you had too much money would you sell a domain name for the same price as you would if you were broke? Probably not. If you have the mindset that you are rich you have a different attitude and demeanor and everything becomes less of a challenge. I'm sure a realtor who is selling a property a day has a different attitude than if he or she hasn't made a sale for four months.

    it's all about perception. I give the impression that I am just here playing for fun and that maybe I'm not taking things too serious but behind the scenes there's a well oiled machine at work. I probably spend 2-4 hours every day domaining in some way or just learning in general.

    I am long term unemployed and got sick and tired of being overlooked for jobs I was more than qualified for so I just decided to see whether I could start my own business from home. So far so good. I've laid my foundations and I have my stock and my business plan.

    I spend what I can when I can without hesitation and without regret. I started with nothing and now I call myself a Domain Investor.

    I see fellow Newbies entering this industry with nothing but a few bucks and a dream and it really just p*sses me off when someone crushes their dreams just because they can.

    I hate to say it, but pound for pound some of the Newbies are out performing some of their more established contemporaries.

    Be nice to everyone on your way up as you may meet them again on your way down.

    Regards,

    Reddstagg
     
  22. Reddstagg

    Reddstagg Upgraded Member Gold Account

    Posts:
    519
    Likes Received:
    886
    Good afternoon and thanks for the recognition. It is very much appreciated.

    At present, I'm long term unemployed and just got into domain investing as a way to start a business from scratch using just a PC, broadband and my imagination. Before that I was a Carer for my late Father when he had Alzheimer's. He was an inspiration for me as he wrote and had published a local history book at 65 years of age. He, like me also suffered with arthritis and he typed it up using two cut down pencils having never used a computer before. If you believe in yourself good things can happen.

    I worked for over 30 year in the financial services industry and just about covered most aspects of how and why companies operate. I'm a writer. I'm a thinker. I up-cycle/recycle antique furniture. I'm an inventor. I speak three languages. I could design you a small house and then build it for you. I could build you a box and then convince you to think outside of it.

    I'm a Domain Investor and this is the start of my second year and I don't think I've done so bad so far. Others will no doubt disagree but I respect their right to have that opinion. It will just spur me on to greater things.

    Regards,

    Reddstagg
     
  23. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

    Posts:
    2,339
    Likes Received:
    2,645
    I have always wondered what happens to the thousands of legitimate offers that just don't end up in a sale because they fall just short of the asking price for certain domains. Is there any way that these offers could automatically be matched up with other similar category domains that are cheaper from a domainer's portfolio.

    How can we prevent legitimate leads from going to waste.

    IMO
     
  24. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

    Posts:
    2,339
    Likes Received:
    2,645
    That 250 number is actually a very important threshold when it comes to whether to expand a portfolio by getting more domains or not.

    In my opinion it's best to keep a portfolio below 250 domains until you have a proven track record of getting offers and making sales and even then I still believe that it might be best to keep a portfolio on a smaller side so that it will be less stressful and time consuming when it comes to managing your domains and taking care of renewals.

    One big mistake that a lot of domainers make is that they expand their portfolio without having any sales and then they get drowned by renewal charges.

    I believe that keeping a smaller portfolio of quality domains that you constantly thrive to improve on by trimming it and replacing the lesser quality domains with better ones might be the best strategy for the majority of the domainers (unless of course you are amongst the very few skillful and experienced domainers that can make large portfolios profitable).

    IMO
     
  25. Reddstagg

    Reddstagg Upgraded Member Gold Account

    Posts:
    519
    Likes Received:
    886
    Many thanks for your comments.

    I started my journey specifically in January and I have continued to add domains throughout the whole year so my renewals are quite well spread out.

    I've just had my end of year 1 and I manged to survive the dreaded renewal conundrum.

    My plan is: Register a domain. Monitor throughout the year for relevancy and drop or keep as the renewal arises. If it's not worth the renewal fee then I use the money to register two new domain names. Rinse and repeat.

    My portfolio now is a little different from when I started but I had been formulating a list of future names to register before I took the leap of faith. My standby/maybe list is now over 1,300 possible registrations so I always have something that I can call on.

    I'd definitely say that in the most part my domain name choices have improved over time which I guess is the natural progression that most Newbies go through.

    I respond to many of the 'Domain Request' threads and I keep both ears to the ground whenever I'm on the internet as there may be something that catches my eye. I add it to my standby list and check the guesstimated appraisal value. I think on it a while and register the name if I think that I should or if there are many people starting to discuss the topic or niche.

    I'm in no rush and I'm here for the long haul and I'm just enjoying my journey.

    I'm a natural researcher by definition and I enjoy spending time looking into new things and advancements in technologies etc.

    Regards,

    Reddstagg
     

Want to reply or ask your own question?

It only takes a minute to sign up – and it's free!
Topics / Tags:
NameWorth
  1. NamePros uses cookies and similar technologies. By using this site, you are agreeing to our privacy policy, terms, and use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
Loading...