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Are European domainers going to start getting shunned?

Labeled as domains in Domain Industry News started by equity78, May 25, 2018.

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  1. NigelD

    NigelD Established Member

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    EU likes to make out it is championing the rights of the individual but in reality laws and directives like GDPR are there to damage small businesses and sole traders. It creates legal minefields that small businesses daren't enter - but multi nationals and large organisations have resources and legal representation to carry on.

    Here in the UK nobody seems to know if we can now market our domains to end users - if we get it wrong - contact the wrong person - we'll be in big trouble. The DMA helpfully put out some explanatory notes on marketing and GDPR - but this subject is so complex - and the advice so voluminous that you'll need a day or two to run thro' it all - and I'm sure a lot of big businesses will be instructing lawyers to advise them. So we'll not be marketing to end users for a while - and I'm sure many small businesses in all types of sectors will be doing the same. I voted to leave this monster and we're still tied up in red tape - Help :(
     
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  2. Galaxy Traveller

    Galaxy Traveller Established Member

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    I can't see what the language has to do with being global?
    Try Namepros with your regional language (if your language is regional one), and allow reply using regional languages from the members of different parts of the world.

    South Korea, China, Japan, Germany are disconnected from the world?
    Yes people from these countries are disconnected from many source of knowledge, entertainment, info etc.

    a phd doctor doing most of his work offline
    They collect useful data from several source like you and me.

    Also, there are huge businesses which don't need to be online, but still they have access to more info than you will ever have....
    Unverified false and made up information?
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  3. Acroplex

    Acroplex Top Member DomainGang.com PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    What I've learned from living on both sides of the Atlantic: Politicians screw up people's good intentions.

    Sometimes, we even go to war against each other. Guess who makes those decisions...not the people.
     
  4. boker

    boker Active Member VIP

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    So namepros is your whole world? Did you ever checked a forum in China, shared by millions of members, do you think that you are missing something there? No matter what you will do, you will miss something in another corner of the globe or in another language.

    As much as they are disconnected from many sources of knowledge, the same goes the other way, it's no difference.

    They collect useful data from books, research and others, not necessary online. If your only source of knowledge is from online, than you are in big trouble.

    From big producers of steel to huge chains of supermarkets, from civil engineering companies to petrol companies they only have a simple presentation site and they don't need to be online to make money.
     
  5. Galaxy Traveller

    Galaxy Traveller Established Member

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    Name pros your whole world?
    Why not? People from all over the world available here, which is not possible with any other regional language.

    Sorry I think Chinese knowledge is highly restricted and half info. I think sooner or later Chinese people will requires unrestricted knowledge which is not possible using Chinese knowledge.

    Once again if they collect knowledge from highly censored books etc. I can only say best of luck for them because only luck can save those people who have limited regional knowledge in the highly competitive world.

    People prefer online market than offline store. It is fact.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  6. Domainace

    Domainace Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    As people who only speak English are also disconnected from many sources of knowledge, entertainment, info etc. It cuts both ways.
     
  7. Galaxy Traveller

    Galaxy Traveller Established Member

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    There are other differences e.g. English speaking people are most advanced people on earth. They allow and accept almost anything, every field. Another benefit or added advantage they are one step ahead from rest of the world. Then I don't think I am missing anything. Instead I can collect most advanced knowledge in any subject when requires.
     
  8. CrazyTech

    CrazyTech Small Town Guy VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    This is 100% true.

    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I'm positive the coiner of this phrase had government bureaucracy in mind with this quote.

    I have a few dogs in this privacy fight even though it's raging over in Europe rather than this side of the Atlantic.

    My data has been part of at least 4 breaches now. I am concerned about the growing amount of data that the public and private sector maintains on me, my interests, and even my family.

    This law had good intentions. I get precisely what they were trying to do. However, as with most laws passed by perfectly intelligent people who don't have a real connection to the issue, these laws do clearly benefit larger corporations with more resources. Having to deal with GDPR just to collect email addresses and run a blog is insane. The negative effect of forcing the removal of WHOIS data is absurd.

    All of these moves make a lot of sense with the recent Facebook brouhaha if the target is a Facebook or Google who's been quite cavalier with their data assemblage at times. They just don't work for small businesses, mom-and-pop blogs, and so on.

    This thing has created a lot of uncertainty, even if you're used to following the rules and working within government regulations.
    I develop websites and you can bet I'll think twice before doing work for a European customer again. And that's a shame, because it will begin to cut into the growth in other areas too. I hate it for my European brothers and sisters. I just hope that cooler heads will prevail and better language will come about as a result of a better understanding of data, data storage, and data collection.
     
  9. NameOmnia

    NameOmnia alea iacta est VIP

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    For small businesses under 250 employees the thing is really much much simpler than what many think.. you really just need to allow people to consent, opt in and let them change their data or delete them if they require so.
     
  10. poweredbyme

    poweredbyme Established Member

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    I think the main target of this new law is google, yahoo, youtube, facebook, twitter and other popular sites as their business rely on free membership to their websites and displaying ads to their registered users as well as their visitors.

    Even though I am a one-person small webmaster, I blocked the visitors to my websites from 28 EU member countries. When you visit my website from one those 28 countries you see a cloudflare notice saying the owner of this website blocked your country (eg, DE, UK, FR, IT, GR, NL, and so on)
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  11. MadAboutDomains

    MadAboutDomains Active Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Interested to know why...
     
  12. poweredbyme

    poweredbyme Established Member

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    I didn't understand the requirements of this law. I don't want to take risk. One of my sites were receiving 60% traffic from Ireland and 25% from UK, and another one was over 50% from UK and Ireland now those websites are almost dead. However I have other sites with 80% US, AU and CA traffic. I can live with it.
     
  13. donnied79

    donnied79 Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Being compliant with GDPR if you are not an ecommerce or a big website requires 1 hour of work max. There are free plugins that allows you basically to do everything you need. Also if you are not in line with requirements you are not going to be fined, but informed and still have like 2 months to make the modification. Blocking access to European countries is simply absurd. Is like to use a gun to shot a mosquito.
     
  14. MadAboutDomains

    MadAboutDomains Active Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    You're not off the hook just because you've blocked the traffic. I take it that you've deleted all of the data for EU citizens? :xf.grin: How do EU citizens contact you to have their details removed from your systems if they can't get onto your site?

    It could be causing more issues than it's resolving by blocking the traffic. It's like an admission of malpractice?
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  15. MadAboutDomains

    MadAboutDomains Active Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Even then you're only going to be fined if lots of people complain about your practice.
     
  16. poweredbyme

    poweredbyme Established Member

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    Those plugins don't help. I will still need to write something specific to each WP blogs to collect consent and -probably- will have to store those consent till forever. I don't let registration to my wp sites but I have a phpbb forum with no plugin support at the moment. I also have some non-WP sites with no such plugins.

    So, it's not a 1 hour work for me. It's not worth to take risk, blocking 28 EU countries is a must.
     
  17. poweredbyme

    poweredbyme Established Member

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    I don't know the location of the visitors. As to the registered members of some my websites, Laws don't work backward. When they signed up (created account on some of my websites that allow member registration) this law was not existed. As I blocked EU traffic, they are no longer able to sign in in to their account from a EU country. They will have to use VPN to sign in, and this law will apply only to EU visitors.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  18. MadAboutDomains

    MadAboutDomains Active Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I'm afraid that isn't true. If someone's data exists in your system, people have a right to access it and remove it. Simples. If they access it over a VPN, the law still stands.

    Further to this, most bulletin boards automatically log IP addresses of it's visitors for logins, posts... pretty much all activities. So you do know where they came from from their IP addresses. IP Addresses are classed as identifiable or "personal" data under the law.

    I'm not trying to exasperate you, but these are serious considerations. Unfortunately no one can just block the traffic and have done with it. I'm pretty sure that GDPR for the USA is *coming soon*.

    No one says that you have to get this stuff correct right now, small steps towards the goal is fine. It's a new law with no legal precedents set yet and I'm sure you're not going to be the first one they go after :xf.cool:.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  19. poweredbyme

    poweredbyme Established Member

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    I never received a removal request from anyone. But I will happily remove all data if claimed, regardless of this EU law, regardless of country of the person. It's a basic human right in my understanding. However this law is complicated. Plus when you run a website, you really don't control everything. For instance, webservers record IP numbers of all visitors. I can't stop it, can't delete it either with my limited technical ability. Some website scripts don't completely remove all data. You need to know mysql. When you remove data of a person from a website, the data may be no longer to visible to the owner of that site but some data may remain in mysql or in the webserver. Also how can you prove that you removed all data without giving the admin access to your websites?
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  20. MadAboutDomains

    MadAboutDomains Active Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I get exactly where you're coming from. As a website owner myself I understand the complications.

    Maybe this is the point of GDPR. If you don't know how to control the data, or don't have the means to take responsibility for the data that your systems collect, you shouldn't be allowed to collect it.

    Trying to fix this by blocking EU traffic is literally zero defense and if someone wants their data removed then they can't because as far as they know you don't exist anymore when they try to visit your site. It's not even like they can rely on the WHOIS to contact you to remove their data now. Your website is the means by which your previous EU traffic accessed your services, so to remove it from access to them and to keep their data isn't the right thing to do.

    I'd suggest incremental steps to addressing it rather than a big bang like blocking traffic or deleting your websites completely.

    Sadly just saying that you don't know how to do it doesn't help the situation for anybody. :xf.frown:

    Good luck getting your site sorted.
     
  21. NameOmnia

    NameOmnia alea iacta est VIP

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    Finally..I have tried to say it 20 times!!!


    Like someone else said, this statement is incorrect. Almost all you need to become compliant is ALREADY inbuilt in wordpress 4.9.6 with improvements in the upcoming releases.

    https://wordpress.org/news/2018/05/wordpress-4-9-6-privacy-and-maintenance-release/
     
  22. poweredbyme

    poweredbyme Established Member

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    Thank you.

    IP address is recorded even by the OS that runs server. Otherwise the server wouldn't be able to protect itself from brute force attacks that try to guess "root" password. IP address has to be recorded. Law makers should know this and should advise their people to use VPN to hide their true IP address when they use internet.

    This law is broad to webmasters with limited technical ability. There are websites that run on php scripts. Those sites or their plugins put cookies on browser of the visitor's. You need to delete the whole site to prevent that cookie or have to convert the site to a plain HTML format which is also very difficult even impossible. I don't know what those cookies do, can't stop them either. It's better to block EU traffic completely.

    As to personal data, I don't have an ecommerce website that request personal data such as home address, payment details. The personal data on my website is limited to email address. I have only one phpbb forum, will delete it if I can find a plugin for this EU law.


    I upgrade my WP sites regularly and noticed some privacy improvement in WP 4.9.6 but am not sure if those are enough. It's safer to block EU traffic.
     
  23. NameOmnia

    NameOmnia alea iacta est VIP

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    It is definitely your right to block EU traffic but whether it's the easiest or the laziest move that has to be considered.

    The law is clear and there are many MANY help guides for bloggers around the web; it all comes down to will.

    And YES depending on the kind of wp site you run those updates can be absolutely enough.

    http://www.wpbeginner.com/beginners...-gdpr-compliance-everything-you-need-to-know/
     
  24. Galaxy Traveller

    Galaxy Traveller Established Member

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    By the way if someone not from EU, can file a GDPR lawsuit against any European company? If possible, who will get the amount. Govt. or the person who file the lawsuit?
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  25. poweredbyme

    poweredbyme Established Member

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    This law is complicated. Assume you have a site that is #1 on google for many keywords. This law opens a door to your competitors. Because you can't make sure that you comply with such a broad law that aims to regulate privacy on the internet. You can't regulate internet with a law. Because internet is complicated and change fast.
    There are many things that record IP address of visitors such as operating systems, webservers, databases, php scripts, third party trackers like ads and statistics. You can't control all of these factors, can't delete IP addresses, can't stop being recorded. If you allow EU traffic, you leave an open door to your competitors to attack you by using this new EU law.
     

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