Afternic Appraisal Cost me $XX,XXX

[danielr]

I would like to show everyone here how terrible and wrong Afternic Appriasals are and this thread might shock a lot of people. I own the domain PokerPod.com / .net / .org and selling them as a package. I have received many offers on SEDO and even turned down and few offers for $5,000.

Now when you are taking 2 of the hottest keywords on the internet and putting them together that makes the perfect name for a mobile poker device, or Personal Operating Device (pod) for poker. I was contacted personally by a Mobile Gaming Network that wanted these domain names and with the start of PokerPodCasting you know this a high value name... there is no doubt.

Afternic appraised this domain last April and it appariased for:
CMV = $500
PMV = $3000
visit the links> http://www.afternic.com/appraisal.php?id=23988

Well what really blew me away is that the domain MicroSoftMotors.com appraises for just about the same amount..
visit the appr link for microsoftmotors.com > http://www.afternic.com/appraisal.php?id=20382

When I was talking to MGNpoker (who wanted the name), the told me they would agree to pay me $15,000 range.. if it would appraise for that amount. Well it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out why I am still holding on this name.

I talked directly to Afternic folks at the TRAFFIC WEST convention last month about this appraisal. It makes sense that they dont want to modify their mistake because if they did... just about everyone would want thier appraisal change. They did offer me a free home featured listing and I listed PokerMobile.net (which I have had many inquiries as mobilepoker continues to grow).

Afternic told me that if I wanted to... I could remove the appraisal like so possible buyers would not see that appraisal link (and see its only worth $500). No way would I remove this link now.... because its reminds me of the movie "Good Fella's". When you become a made man in the mafia you have a license to mess with people... well this terrible apprasial gives me a license to mess with afternic.

But Crooky and I are not the only ones getting screwed on these appraisals.. so I have figured out a way that everyone can benifet from these terrible appraisals... even Afternic.


But WHAT IF?....

When someone wanted to view the apprasial of a domain listing on afternic.... a pop up menu appeared and stated "If you wish to view this appraisal it will cost 1 dollar". And of course the dollar will go to the owner of the domain name. If you are a member of afternic this dollar will be subtracted from your earnings.... If not a member you still have to pay in paypal or some other means.

Now before you think that I have completely lost my mind... can you imagine the possibilities. I think more afternic users would get appraisals no matter how bad the results were just to make money back.... esp on the high visible names. And more people would do featured listings in an attempt to get people to view their appraisals... I know I would.

I know I would pay a dollar to see how bad Crooky got screwed on Poker.in and I would probably just spend hundreds of dollars a month to view appraisals just to see how bad people got screwed on afternic. If you see that many people getting screwed you would never have to look at porn again.

Maybe afternic could sell "appraisal view credits as well" to potential buyers... and they could sell "get screwed credits" to potentential domain owners.

 

[ammo]

Well thats a very interesting idea, I personally think it would be quite good, but I cant see alot of people going for it to be honest.

 

[Jo]

Daniel, very sorry to hear of the low appraisal and your loss of sale. Could you not have tried another appraisal service? I like the idea of the viewed appraisals - I would buy into that.

 

[kev]

Sorry to hear of your ordeal. Ive never had an appraisal as i always thought they either give duff results or over inflated prices.
In this case, afternic have got it wrong. This is a great name! I have the .eu version of it so im sure if you sit on it a little longer these offers will come around again. I see you have had 8 sedo offers so there is plenty of interest and hopefully you will be reoprting a good sale of it soon.

Keep me posted!
Kevin

 

[Jeff]

... well this terrible apprasial gives me a license to mess with afternic?

I am still unsure, exactly, how you got screwed by Afternic IMHO. :blink:

According to their appraisal link: http://www.afternic.com/appraisal.php?id=23988

... CMV is $575.00 and PMV is $3,000.00 (versus $300.00 as posted above) :gl: :talk:

I think those $'s, in my view, are inline for the undeveloped domain name.
If I was the owner, I'd negotiate and sell for some of those Sedo offers (or $5,000, whichever is higher)!
Best of Luck.
-Jeff

 

[matt_bodis]

Never appraise.

 

[Ringtonebro]

Never appraise.

agreed

 

[JMJ]

For those that still haven't figured it out. Any domain appraisal is as useless as getting one for that guy with a PHD.

 

[HBK216]

Common sense should have told you not to get one. Live & learn

 

[Domainate.com]

I am still unsure, exactly, how you got screwed by Afternic IMHO. :blink:

According to their appraisal link: http://www.afternic.com/appraisal.php?id=23988

... CMV is $575.00 and PMV is $3,000.00 (versus $300.00 as posted above) :gl: :talk:

I think those $'s, in my view, are inline for the undeveloped domain name.
If I was the owner, I'd negotiate and sell for some of those Sedo offers (or $5,000, whichever is higher)!
Best of Luck.
-Jeff

Looks like they changed the appraisal. I saw the original when it happened and know that Daniel's figures are correct on that. Very interesting...

P.S. - For all you people who are saying "never appraise", that's fine and dandy, but unfortunately with Afternic requiring appraisals on names that sellers want Home Featured, they are essentially forcing their BS appraisals down people's throats. Sure, you could then say "well, don't get a Home Featured listing", but most names rarely get any views otherwise. Heck, I've got some names listed on Afternic that have NEVER HAD A VIEW!

However, with Sedo being the main alternative, you get the BS of anonymous bidding to deal with, and no way to run a "closing soon" auction like you can at Afternic. So unfortunately, thanks to Afternic's crappy appraisals and horrendous "Showcase" record (turning down truly great names, accepting 2-word .cc names, PokerUNF.com, etc.), it's a matter of choosing the lesser of 2 evils now.

I will be making a site where people can buy, sell, trade, lease, appraise, etc. domain names, but it's still probably way into the future, because I need a lot of money to develop it right and money doesn't grow on trees yet.

 

[capiche]

Appraisals suck all around. If they appraise too low, then no one wants to pay you as much as you want, if they appraise high, it's nice for the seller, but then a lot of people are afraid to offer you anything, because they think there's no possible way they can attain the name.
In all reality, I've seen people down appraisals right and left when their names appraise for very little, and then when they get a really high appraisal for a name, they act like that appraisal is the most accurate appraisal ever. :lol: I'm not talking about anyone in particular here, just stating an observation I'm sure all of us have noticed.

I truly think it's all in the marketing. Unless you're into domaining just for the PPC, anyone who just wants to let their names sit on a parking page and not do anything else to market them is going to have a hard time selling, or at least a somewhat harder time selling. This market is much too saturated to be idle when it comes to marketing. And by marketing I mean, emails, phone calls, letters, domains wanted threads, the whole nine yards.. consistently.

I don't have as much time as I use to for marketing my names,... but I can say from experience, it's much easier to get what you want out of a domain by going to potential end users instead of waiting for them to come to you.

As far as Daniel's appraisal goes and Crooky's appraisal goes, like Jeff, I think they are about inline for the going rates right now. There have been several Poker.ccTLD names sell recently, mostly with an average of around $1500 dollars, I think the highest one I've seen was Poker.bs for over $3,000. Since .IN is a much better extension, IMO, I could see it going for around $10,000 for a very interested buyer with a plan for it, or on a lucky streak to a major online poker establishment for $15 - $20k .. tops. I'm sure a lot of people would agree with that. I'm also pretty sure that Crooky has even had an offer that high. IMO, that was probably one of the big dogs I am talking about. (I also would have taken it )
As far as PokerPod goes, it too is a nice name, and I know Daniel is on the right track with obtaining mobile poker related names, because that market is growing at an astounding rate. (I have a few myself) ...Plus everyone knows that Poker, in general, is Daniel's specialty and he is probably the last person that needs to have someone tell him what track to be on when it comes to that, (he has helped a lot of others get on that track himself).... But, I have done enough research myself to know that it will be a few years before a brandable name such as that one will reach a huge amount, if ever, unless lady luck steps in. Several people have offered $5000, so it has good potential, but even though those are great keywords, it sounds much more like a brand than a generic keyword name and brandable names are usually a dime a dozen.

Of course, all of this stuff is IMO. I have the utmost respect for Daniel and Crooky and wish both of them the best.

 

[BigCharlie]

PokerPod is not that good of a name. I would guess that if you asked ten thousand people to do a word association with Poker that none of them would say "Pod". I don't think the phrase has entered too many people's minds in the world of poker.

 

[Domainate.com]

Since .IN is a much better extension, IMO, I could see it going for around $10,000 for a very interested buyer with a plan for it, or on a lucky streak to a major online poker establishment for $15 - $20k .. tops. I'm sure a lot of people would agree with that. I'm also pretty sure that Crooky has even had an offer that high. IMO, that was probably one of the big dogs I am talking about. (I also would have taken it )

See, this is why I hate Sedo. Value wise, you may be right and I may be wrong -- it is pretty much a matter of opinion. However, if you were in my shoes for instance, where I had plenty of offers within a few months of owning the name, almost all of them $10k at least, topping out at $20k, you get a feeling that the name is really worth more. Those offers were all before the flurry of Poker.ext sales lately too. The big problem is, as has been said in .in discussions, the extension is still fairly new and it hasn't had any landmark sale of an elite name yet.

Anyhow, I have someone who may be interested and have to call him sometime today to discuss it further...that should be a barrel of monkeys!

 

[-db-]

Now when you are taking 2 of the hottest keywords on the internet and putting them together..

...makes the perfect name for a mobile poker device, or Personal Operating Device (pod) for poker.

...you know this a high value name... there is no doubt.

There is a tone set at the beginning of this thread. You are excited and hyped up about your own (made-up, brandable) domain. It is clear that you have already decided it must be a very valuable name.

That excitement and enthusiasm can sometimes cloud common sense and logic. A person in that state of mind is often going to disagree with appraisals, or be unhappy with other opinions, unless they hear what they want to hear.

When you become a made man in the mafia you have a license to mess with people... well this terrible apprasial gives me a license to mess with afternic.

That's a rather combative attitude, don't you think? And why? Just because they don't agree your domain is worth as much money as you do?

PokerPod - The domain is fun and clever, but it does not have any generic value, or specific searches for it. This type name could be branded into something popular, but it also might sit untouched for years to come. There is no built-in value with these type names. No guarantee.

But Crooky and I are not the only ones getting screwed on these appraisals..

I don't think Crooky got "screwed" by a low appraisal. I think his (Poker.in) domain is worth more than what they said, but so what? It was just an appraisal. Just an opinion. The .IN space is still so young, a baby really, so regardless of keyword strength, the opinions vary widely.

The only way you get screwed on appraisals is paying for them in the first place.

 

[BigCharlie]

If you type the name in quotes at Google "Poker Pod" it comes up 126 times out of billions and billions of possibilities. A few of those results were from this very thread. The name was unregistered less than two years ago. Nobody uses the term and anyone offering you 5K should smoke a different brand of crack. If you are trying to get 10K or 20K off of someone for this name then good luck to you, and hopefully you can find someone to appraise it for that amount. Not many people in the domain business would pay too much for the name. If you put it up for auction I am pretty sure you wouldn't get much. Poker Underwear and Poker Remote come up more times than Poker Pod. The name just isn't that good. I know you have good poker names, but I don't think you would even pay a few hundred for this if someone else owned it.

 

[GT Web]

Even though most appraisals are useless...Afternic's was bang on.

This name isn't very good at all...I dont know why you are complaining.

 

[Ronald Regging]

Big Charlie, I dont think it matters that "Poker Pod" doesn't get a lot of searches, because such a thing doesn't exist. How many searches do you think there were for "iPod" before they created it? Probably less than the 126 for poker pod. The point is that mobile poker is becoming a huge thing, and with Poker and Pod being some of the most searched terms today, you put them together and it's an instant success.

I wish someone would create a device that allowed me to play on some big name poker sites no matter where I was. I'm hoping thats the way it goes eventually. I'd actually have fun at work then

 

[AdoptableDomains]

I've been doing this for just about as long as anyone here. I've never paid for an appraisal or asked for one. A domain is worth what a buyer will pay for it, period. Each potential buyer has a different limit, different ideas, and different options for other domains.

If a buyer wants an appraisal, they are welcome to get it on their own. However, it won't change my price one bit. Sedo wants an appraisal on anything higher than $10k. I just don't list a sellling price on anything I want more than that for. I can usually justify a price better myself, with reasons, rather than trust an opinion of someone who may not know the subjects or potential market of the domain I choose as well as me.

Unlike real estate or antiques, there is no reliable way to get comps on domains, and the vast majority of sales are never reported, particulary the large sales. Even among those who do this all the time here, you see wide swings in what people value domains at. I've sold domains for 50 times what others have said they were worth, and been happy with 50 times less than what some others would have appraised at.

Asking for or purchasing an appraisal is just asking what one person would value a domain at based on their overall experience. I've been in this a long time and seen domains I would have valued at less than $50 sell for thousands. I've seen domains I thought with high value just dropped. However, someone must have had a need or seen value beyond what I did. There is no right or wrong answer on what is really just an opinion. I think that if you don't like the answer you may get...don't ask. A better way to appraise would be to ask 5 people who don't know each other, then average all of them. Or do it like some sports judging where the highest and lowest scores are thown out to eliminate the most biased or clueless of the bunch.

The ultimate appraisal is an auction amoung potential users. The selling price will be the value of the domain as of the end of the auction.

 

[ivoy]

Could not agree with you more, AdoptableD! Unlike you, I have not been on the domain trading bus for very long, but the unreliability of appraisals has been my one of my biggest turn-offs just as much as it is for you. There is NOTHING to go by when appraising a domain, except for a personal opinion based on trends and a set of shaky statistics. My statistics college book started with the following quote: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics" (Mark Twain, I think); It's about time someone sums up domain appraisals: "There are three kinds of domain appraisals: too high, too low, and the lucky ones" (vs)

 

[mohawki]

A domain is worth what a buyer will pay for it, period. Each potential buyer has a different limit, different ideas, and different options for other domains.

I could not agree more. This name could be worth millions, could be worth cents. Whatever a buyer is willing to pay if they want it bad enough. That is what the name is worth. These is the world of domaining. It's an investment. No one here can claim to know how much it is worth. No one. Period. Domain appraisals are totally worthless. :imho: