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Old 12-14-2012, 11:20 AM THREAD STARTER               #1 (permalink)
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Thoughts and Prayers


Please keep the victims and their family members of the school shooting incident today in your thoughts.

This is truly an unimaginable tragedy.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:22 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Just watching what's happening in Connecticut on CNN
at Elementary School - I can't imagine what the parents are going through.

Thoughts and prayers to them and their families.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/us/con...ing/index.html

Now they have updated it to closer to 30 dead.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:59 AM   #3 (permalink)
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26 dead, most of them kids. Shooter's mother was a kindergarten teacher there, he shot his father (in NJ) then went up and shot his mother, the principal, students ...

The shock of the scope of this has everyone stunned, though in reality is it really any better when it's "just" one victim? That's still someone's tragedy...

I really hope the members of NP have more class than to run out and reg a bunch of domains related to this tragedy in an attempt to profit from it (and rationalize it with the usual drivel.)


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Old 12-14-2012, 12:57 PM   #4 (permalink)
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First reg I noticed a few minutes ago, newtonschoolshooting dawt org. Sometimes you just wonder about people.

- - - - -
Plus ryanlanza dot com net and org are now registered. His brother's name was already registered in 2010 for .com .net .org, but someone just registered the .info today.

ALmost all of the domains registered today so far of course hid behind privacy, however one fellow did not remember to do so or did not care:

Here is the public whois for the guy who registered RyanLanza.me today:

Registrant ID:CR131741941
Registrant Name:Randy Herrera
Registrant Organization:The Purbery Group
Registrant Address:87 Lydia St
Registrant Address2:#2
Registrant Address3:
Registrant City: Providence
Registrant State/Province:Rhode Island
Registrant Country/Economy:US
Registrant Postal Code:02908
Registrant Phone:+1.4016038036
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant E-mail: [email protected]
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:20 PM   #5 (permalink)
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18 kids died at the school. 2 more at a hospital. I'm to the point where being an American really sickens me. I'm starting to hate it.


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Old 12-14-2012, 02:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
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@rogue

May not be profit motive. Dont be too quick to judge.



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Old 12-14-2012, 03:13 PM   #7 (permalink)
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First off, heart and prayers to the victims and families. The devestated parents, with christmas presents already under the tree...
There is a special place in hell for people who murder children.

Originally Posted by Archangel View Post
18 kids died at the school. 2 more at a hospital. I'm to the point where being an American really sickens me. I'm starting to hate it.
Brother, it's not just being an American, it being a member of the human race in general.
All we can do is try to live our lives as decent humans, reach out where we can, and try to keep the world moving forward, despite the asshats.

Meanwhile, if the RyanLanza is a tragireg then they missed it. It's been reported that it was his brother Adam that was the shooter.

TragiRegs are scum, unless used for memorial/donation sites. Period.

Peace on their little souls,
Cy

As an aside, does anyone else hear "kill, kill" on the background music played by abc/yahoo?
http://news.yahoo.com/video/abc-news...i=0&nopharma=1


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Old 12-14-2012, 04:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I know what ya mean. This just makes it really sad: trying to be a good ember of the human race while assholes like this guy taint the picture

Originally Posted by Cyberian View Post
First off, heart and prayers to the victims and families. The devestated parents, with christmas presents already under the tree...
There is a special place in hell for people who murder children.


Brother, it's not just being an American, it being a member of the human race in general.
All we can do is try to live our lives as decent humans, reach out where we can, and try to keep the world moving forward, despite the asshats.

Meanwhile, if the RyanLanza is a tragireg then they missed it. It's been reported that it was his brother Adam that was the shooter.

TragiRegs are scum, unless used for memorial/donation sites. Period.

Peace on their little souls,
Cy

As an aside, does anyone else hear "kill, kill" on the background music played by abc/yahoo?
http://news.yahoo.com/video/abc-news...i=0&nopharma=1


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Old 12-14-2012, 05:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
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My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and the families. Earlier today in China some crazy guy also went berserk and stabbed 22 school kids with a knife. Luckily no one died. If he had carried a gun then the outcome would probably have been quite different.

Nothing is going to change in the US (this is mostly an American phenomenon) as long as Americans continue their love affair with guns or till such a time that the politicians grow some very big cojones and confront the NRA and implement some very strict gun controls.

But unfortunately they won't do it because they will lose votes, so every few weeks we see these types of tragedies, and everyone is shocked because it happened in a place that was supposed to be a safe place, etc.

"Guns don't kill people" This slogan has brainwashed millions of people for so long. Wake up America, learn from other countries how it's done!
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The US major news media, with the exception of NPR and a few others, in their race to report the ongoing findings, absolutly embarassed themselves with misinformation.
Interviewing a 10yo right after, "What did you see?"
Totally pathetic on their part.

They have butchered the journalistic values they claim to hold so dear.

One agency gets it wrong and the others jump on board so not to look stupid... how did that work out, guys?

What a fuster cluck.
/rant

Again, heart and prayers to the children, staff, and their families.


Peace,
Cyberian


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Old 12-15-2012, 03:20 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Oh My God... I am just amazed to see this.. Its really breathtaking.
My prayers are with the victims and their families.
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:13 AM THREAD STARTER               #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cyberian View Post
Interviewing a 10yo right after, "What did you see?"
Totally pathetic on their part.
I totally agree. What a pathetic and typical Shitty media move.

I also think it was a bad move on the dad's part to keep continuing the interview and giving his ideas of what happened.

Todays media is nothing more then another stupid reality show that plagues our tv's.
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:52 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
One agency gets it wrong and the others jump on board so not to look stupid... how did that work out, guys?
Agreed - the reporting on this was a trainwreck. First they reported the wrong brother as the killer (older brother is an accountant, he was at work when this happened), went on a wild goose chase reporting HIS girlfriend and another friend as possibly "missing" (not), they misreported his father as dead (he wasn't), at various times alluded to "another" family member having been killed (it was just the mother.), reported the mother dead at the school (she was killed in their home)...Idiots!

As for interviewing those kids - I have no words. Shameful!!!

Turns out the guns were legally registered to the shooter's mother...He was too young to register a gun or buy ammo in CT. So it wasn't a case of the wrong person being allowed to buy a gun, BUT ... I have to believe he would have done a lot less damage if he didn't have access to semiautomatic weapons.


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Old 12-15-2012, 08:04 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cyberian View Post
The US major news media, with the exception of NPR and a few others, in their race to report the ongoing findings, absolutly embarassed themselves with misinformation.
Interviewing a 10yo right after, "What did you see?"
Totally pathetic on their part.

They have butchered the journalistic values they claim to hold so dear.

One agency gets it wrong and the others jump on board so not to look stupid... how did that work out, guys?

What a fuster cluck.
/rant

Again, heart and prayers to the children, staff, and their families.


Peace,
Cyberian
Couldn't agree more. The Media of yesteryear is long dead and buried. They will do anything to bring the news out first, regardless of weather it's true or fabricated.

They don't care about the consequences either. Just look what happened to that nurse Jacintha Saldanha who killed herself a few days ago after the prank from the Aussie radio station.

The audio tape of the conversation exposed her mistake to the whole world and it seems she was unable to cope with the extreme humiliation it brought her and her family. But the media doesn't give a shit about the consequences.

The Media is slowly becoming part of the problem instead of the solution, that's why I've been so critical of the them in this forum.

But the main problem here is not so much the pathetic misinformation the media so quickly threw out for ratings purposes, but arms control. It almost seems like a taboo to talk about it. This thread, so far is an example of what I'm talking about.

Connecticut apparently had strict gun laws, but isn't it piss easy to go to a different state and buy an arsenal to kill dozens of people in a few minutes. Why did this killer's mother have a semi-automatic weapon for? These types of arms should only be available for certain sections of society like the police force or army.

Here are some stats of people killed by guns in different countries
UK: 68
Germany: 158
Canada: 165
Australia: 65
Japan: 19
USA: over 11.000

The total population of those 5 countries is about 325 million, while the USA has about 315 million. Now do the maths.

The US has the highest percentage of people owning guns (over 90%)

In Europe gun ownership in most of the countries is about 10% with the exception of Switzerland and Finland (45%), Germany and France (30%), The UK is about 6%

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...hip-world-list

Statistics aside, its also a cultural thing. Too many gangs in America and too much violence on TV and movies thanks to Hollywood. The Video Game industry is another culprit in teaching how to kill, maim and destroy from a very early age.
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:44 PM   #15 (permalink)
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A few thoughts I’ve had today: People are thinking a lack of God is the problem opposed to gun control. I just now commented on a FB pic that alluded: “Put God back in schools!” It goes on to say, “We don’t need more laws. We need a fear of God & a respect for human life.” How does the respect thing & God thing go together? Not many are God-fearing ppl. There are those who just don't care. How would 'putting God in schools' have saved those 20 kids in CT? Answer: it wouldn't have. It wouldn't have saved the kids in Columbine and it wouldn't have prevented the Brian Head suicide. Why do ppl insist that adding God to the gun crisis will in any way help? Answer: it wouldn't. In fact, it would HURT since non-Christians will piss & moan & cause disruptions. We need to keep God OUT of schools & welcome common sense. It is the latter we are sorely missing. We are brainwashed with the whole “Guns don’t kill ppl” thing. Sad. I guess that’s the prob with most Christians: Every time there’s a prob, they look up, not around them.


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Old 12-15-2012, 04:58 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Fear of god or prayer in schools doesn't ward off mental illness.

Common sense - much too little of that around!

Quote:
too much violence on TV and movies thanks to Hollywood. The Video Game industry is another culprit in teaching how to kill, maim and destroy from a very early age.
Thing is, 99.999% of people exposed to those things will keep clear lines between fantasy and reality and won't become mass murderers.

Some interesting comments from a forensic psychologist - not regarding this incident, but regarding the mistakes the media makes in covering similar incidents - http://upwr.me/NUWVfn. He's right - if they were to downplay it nationally, skip the 24/7 coverage (except locally, as needed), no photos of the killer, no discussions of the killer's background - it would be less ... "attractive" (?) to unbalanced people and make them less likely to relate to the killer (and subsequently try to copy or one-up them).


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Old 12-15-2012, 05:28 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Agreed. You might wanna look this over, too. http://news.yahoo.com/evolution-supe...115744386.html

Originally Posted by enlytend View Post



Thing is, 99.999% of people exposed to those things will keep clear lines between fantasy and reality and won't become mass murderers.

Some interesting comments from a forensic psychologist - not regarding this incident, but regarding the mistakes the media makes in covering similar incidents - http://upwr.me/NUWVfn. He's right - if they were to downplay it nationally, skip the 24/7 coverage (except locally, as needed), no photos of the killer, no discussions of the killer's background - it would be less ... "attractive" (?) to unbalanced people and make them less likely to relate to the killer (and subsequently try to copy or one-up them).


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Old 12-15-2012, 06:39 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Archangel View Post
Agreed. You might wanna look this over, too. http://news.yahoo.com/evolution-supe...115744386.html
Towards the end the article says: "Studies that try to link violent movies with real-life aggression have produced inconsistent results and are often poorly conducted, Ferguson told LiveScience."

So why is this study correct when there are dozens of studies out there that say the opposite.

Which study is right and which is wrong? What does your common sense tell you?

Enlytend says: "Fear of god or prayer in schools doesn't ward off mental illness." That may be true but it's a much better idea than arming teachers with guns or putting armed guards inside schools as some are advocating.

What is America waiting for? A massacre of at least 100 or 200 kids before taking action and doing the only thing that needs to be done and that's staring everyone in the face except for the brainwashed "Guns don't kill people, people do" crowd.
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:33 PM   #19 (permalink)
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And i thought you were a Libertarian / constiturionalist.

Nearly 300 murders in Chicago this year. Violence is simply too routine these days.



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Old 12-15-2012, 07:50 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by defaultuser View Post
Nearly 300 murders in Chicago this year. Violence is simply too routine these days.
Most of those murders are gang related and the numbers are probably over 500 by now, according to this article: http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?sec...cal&id=8864931
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:48 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Two things have been tossing around my head all day.
First:
When RR emptied out the mental health budgets to fund "Star Wars" and other military buildups, he created a system with no help for the innocent victims of mental disease, and we have been paying a dear price ever since.

Second:
Somebody posted this in the comments section of a Y! news article about the state of mind of the shooter.

Quote:
Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :

Quote:
"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.


It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news.
I wonder how much of what he is saying hits home.

Lets keep these names in our hearts:
Charlotte Bacon, 6
Daniel Barden, 7
Rachel Davino, 29
Olivia Engel, 6
Josephine Gay, 7
Ana M. Marquez-Greene, 6
Dylan Hockley, 6
Dawn Hocksprung, 47
Madeline F. Hsu, 6
Catherine V. Hubbard, 6
Chase Kowalski, 7
Jesse Lewis, 6
James Mattioli, 6,
Grace McDonnell, 7
Anne Marie Murphy, 52
Emile Parker, 6
Jack Pinto, 6
Noah Pozner, 6
Caroline Previdi, 6
Jessica Rekos, 6
Avielle Richman, 6
Lauren Russeau, 30
Mary Sherlach, 56
Benjamin Wheeler, 6
Allison N. Wyatt, 6

And his mother, Nancy, 52


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Old 12-16-2012, 05:07 AM   #22 (permalink)
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So why is this study correct when there are dozens of studies out there that say the opposite.

Which study is right and which is wrong? What does your common sense tell you?
I'd need to see detailed data about the studies in question to tell you that. Organizations/companies often sponsor "studies" which are heavily weighted to back up a view they support. Same thing for "polls" - structure, wording and choice of answers can make the results unreliable.

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Enlytend says: "Fear of god or prayer in schools doesn't ward off mental illness." That may be true but it's a much better idea than arming teachers with guns or putting armed guards inside schools as some are advocating.
Putting prayer in the schools is innocuous and useless. Arming teachers and posting armed guards is potentially harmful and just as useless.

Pressuring the media to act responsibly - play down details on the shooter and don't wallow in these tragedies for weeks on end - that would be helpful.

As for "Guns don't kill people ..." Of course you could kill someone with a vehicle or a heavy blunt object, etc., the difference is guns are a tool designed to kill. I have no problem with people owning guns to hunt or for sport, but there's no plausible reason someone like this kid's mother should have the types of weapons used in the crime lying around their house.

How ARE the gun laws structured in Europe? Just curious.


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Old 12-16-2012, 08:55 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I'm glad to see people blasting the Media's behavior in regard to this and other similar tragedies. As some of you know I'm probably the biggest critic of the Media in this forum. I criticized them heavily for ther biased handling of the Presidential Elections, but unfortunately I was blasted on so many occasions for criticizing the media.. still trying to figure that out

But no one's talking about that very taboo subject called GUN CONTROL, which leads me to believe that the majority are NOT in favor of changing some of the Gun Laws.

I know it won't be easy to have some really meaningful gun control, since half if not more of Congress has been bought or paid for by the NRA. The other half of Congress has been bought by Wall Street so the Status Quo will remain until a truly massive killing spree happens or another massive Financial collapse happens again. Then all those 270 million arms will come in really handy to start a civil war.

Originally Posted by enlytend View Post

How ARE the gun laws structured in Europe? Just curious.
Like I said before, it's a cultural thing. In the US it's really easy and legal to carry a firearm, while in Europe it is generally against the law to carry or possess a gun, and most people feel uneasy about having arms. As an example I personally have never owned or used any kind of gun in my life and the last time I physically saw one was about 35 years ago, when I lived in California in the 70's.

Here's part of an article that explains gun laws in Western Europe:

European countries have come together to set a legal framework that strictly defines gun ownership. As a result, the European Council Directive of June 18th, 1991 provides the key legal information regarding gun control in the EU. It prohibits the private possession of fully automatic weapons, and regulates the possession of semi-automatic ones and handguns.

This regulation relies on a system of license. People who want to acquire a weapon need to obtain a gun owner’s license. This license is only delivered after a background check has been led and legitimate reasons have been provided. Only licensed people can legally acquire a firearm or ammunition.

Let’s take the example of France. To obtain such a license, people have to practice shooting during at least six months in a club of the official French Federation of Shooting. After the Federation has given its favorable opinion, the police investigate on criminal or mental records. If the police do not find anything, they give an authorization valid for five years.

The owner must then buy his gun in a limited period of three months if he doesn’t want his authorization to expire. There is also a limitation regarding the number: a maximum of twelve guns can be detained, while in Norway, such restriction does not exist. Since the French law of 1995, it is nowadays compulsory to keep guns into a locked safe.

In France, Norway and the UK, the right to private gun ownership is not guaranteed by the Constitution. Moreover, in each country, sale of guns and firearms must be registered and recorded.

In case of illicit possession of firearms, the maximum penalty will be seven years prison and a fine in France while in Norway the maximum penalty would only be 3 months.

In Portugal few people have arms. Hunter can get shotguns and rifles but they must belong to a Hunting Club and need a special license from the Police, plus a certificate from a doctor and a whole bunch of other restrictions.

Semi-automatic and automatic weapons are illegal here. Only the Police and Armed Forces can use them.

Any American gun lover who came to live in Portugal would freak out at how difficult it is to legally get a firearm, in comparison to the laws that are so lax in the US.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:37 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Most of those restrictions sound very reasonable to me. Especially the parts about automatic and semi-automatic weapons. And keeping guns in a locked safe.

Illicitly obtaining them is another problem - it's easy to regulate the law-abiding, the criminals not so much. However if certain types of weapons become unavailable on the legal market, it could affect supply all around.

Mental health care and awareness are closely related issues that also need to be addressed. That system is pretty badly broken.


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Old 12-16-2012, 12:01 PM   #25 (permalink)
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