DMCA , l don't understand the logic

antonio72 · Oct 1, 2022

I've found out that l have a domain name, a word in the English dictionary, trademarked by several companies. Is it illegal to contact them to see if they're interested? I've made some trademark queries and l noticed that most of the words\phrases have been registered... so theoretically no nice domain name could be bought without risking, Use case, the word 'timeout', registered in several countries by a sport portal in one country, by a fashion brand in another, by an auction house in a third country. What prevents a person who owns timeout.io to contact them to see if they could be interested in that name? I've also find out that companies have a priority and can auto-register new domain extensions paying a dedicated service. Use case 2, l've seen .net and .org of big companies... floating in the free to register zone for months. This means that not only they have not paid a basic service to protect that name... not only haven't put a few $ on a backorder to take it when dropped... but that they don't even get it when it's available at registration cost! I mean, l understand one register 'apple' and then build a website that sells smartphones... but what prevents a guy who register apple.store

) to a guy who sells vegetables in Honduras?

VadimK · Oct 2, 2022

Man, what you are thinking (or asking) of doing is a trademark infringement. Chances are extremely high you'll get a legal (so called UDPR) case against you, should you contact these guys. That's why you see all these extensions hanging there freely on the market, because everyone knows what happens if you touch them.

These popular trademarked words are a lepra in the domain world. Stay away from any widely known brand or abbreviation (Appla, Facebook, NHL, NBA, Formula1, FIFA etc...)

And the guy who is selling apples in Honduras at random ''apple.store'', probably will get away with it. But you are thinking of selling this domain name (and to Apple as well!!) - which is clearly a ''bad faith'', legally speaking. See the difference?

Read more legal stuff here:
https://www.namepros.com/forums/legal-discussion.229/

Good luck!

antonio72 · Oct 2, 2022

VadimK said:
Man, what you are thinking (or asking) of doing is a trademark infringement. Chances are extremely high you'll get a legal (so called UDPR) case against you, should you contact these guys. That's why you see all these extensions hanging there freely on the market, because everyone knows what happens if you touch them.

Hi @VadimK , thanks for the tips. There is a fact though, most if not all of the keyword \ keywordphrases are trademarked somewhere in the world. Let's see an example with 811 RECORDS... Different business, different countries...

Hypersot · Oct 2, 2022

Antonio, I think you get a small detail wrong:

when you hold the apple domain, nothing will happen since you are not actively try to earn money from someone's brand; domain has a generic word in that case.

However,
when you try to sell the apple to Apple then it converts to bad faith as you actively try to 'gain' from someone's brand.

Is that a bit clearer now?

VadimK · Oct 2, 2022

Don't worry about it too much. Subject is quite complicated, there are lots of names trademarked in certain countries and for certain activities only. Trademarked names will need to prove to arbitrage that you are hurting their business (or profiting from it!), one way or another. In 99% situations it is not the case (in contrast to your previous post, where you clearly go to to Apple and say - hey, I got your name!! - so, here you are clearly profiting).

It makes sense to check major trademarks here, before buying the name:
https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/search

but apart from that (if not on a list exactly how spelled) - don't worry and boldly go for the name you like.

antonio72 · Oct 2, 2022

@Hypersot Thanks, this is what l was trying to understand. Let's put a use case.
A user get 'meta.net', there are some 1000+ trademarked 'meta' companies all over the world. As soon as one doesn't contact one of those 1000+ companies... it's all right?. But now the question is, l've read on the forum facebook or meta has filled a dmca against users who have registered, parked or developed sites not their exact keyword but variants containing the keyword meta... How is then this possible? Cannot for example a guy who has developed a gif portal use the domain name metagif.com? (I suppose also gif has hundreds of trademark holder companies..

Hypersot · Oct 2, 2022

Here is why it gets complicated as @VadimK explained earlier.
Each of those cases is unique and needs to be looked at individually. If there was a strict rule for all there wouldn't be so many udrp cases. It all makes sense if you think about it.
Just have a look here: https://www.dndisputes.com/

VadimK · Oct 2, 2022

Wanted to say exactly the same - I said it's complicated - companies do get clashed constantly with professional lawyers on both sides. There are lots of nuances for each case.

I had a ''cease and desist'' letter once from one of the attorneys from the US that one of my names resembles (so, it wasn't even the same name!) theirs and it hurts their business. I disregarded it completely and they peeled off in that case, but just want to say that anything can happen.

Again, I personally follow two simple rules: check the link provided above and stay away from any well-known company/abbreviation/organisation (Meta is not one of them, by the way).

antonio72 · Oct 2, 2022

VadimK said:
Don't worry about it too much. Subject is quite complicated, there are lots of names trademarked in certain countries and for certain activities only. Trademarked names will need to prove to arbitrage that you are hurting their business (or profiting from it!), one way or another. In 99% situations it is not the case (in contrast to your previous post, where you clearly go to to Apple and say - hey, I got your name!! - so, here you are clearly profiting).

It makes sense to check major trademarks here, before buying the name:
https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/search

but apart from that (if not on a list exactly how spelled) - don't worry and boldly go for the name you like.

Yes, l suppose it's the only way to think

The subject is very complex indeed... l really don't understand why it's not solved at a Regitrar level...

Hypersot said:
Here is why it gets complicated as @VadimK explained earlier.
Each of those cases is unique and needs to be looked at individually. If there was a strict rule for all there wouldn't be so many udrp cases. It all makes sense if you think about it.
Just have a look here: https://www.dndisputes.com/

Amazing... blockfichain.com, theantropologie, recovery-road.org TRANSFER means the actual holders have to drop the domain name they've bought? Do the guy who's registered recovery-road has also to pay for the trial?

Hypersot · Oct 2, 2022

Can you imagine the resources a Registrar needs to have to do something like that? Not possible and does not make sense either for that to be on a registrar level as it is a very specialised procedure.

As for the expenses, I wouldn't know. I see some domainer names showing up more than once or twice on those dispute lists so I assume that there is a chance to avoid those expenses as a respondent. I don't know what happens for real though, fortunately I never had a case against me.

antonio72 · Oct 2, 2022

Hypersot said:
Can you imagine the resources a Registrar needs to have to do something like that? Not possible and does not make sense either for that to be on a registrar level as it is a very specialised procedure.

As for the expenses, I wouldn't know. I see some domainer names showing up more than once or twice on those dispute lists so I assume that there is a chance to avoid those expenses as a respondent. I don't know what happens for real though, fortunately I never had a case against me.

It would be nice to hear someone who's had an experience in this intricate field... in the meantime, let's wait for the w3 DMCA carnival... There are more than 1000 snipers waiting. One may read com, net org... but that's false, it's a w3.dmca catchall account!

Ste Ven · Oct 6, 2022

In court, (if it even makes it there) it boils down to who proves what.

Most litigation strategies I've seen usually involve just muscling you out by making you pile up legal fees till you throw in the towel. (IP Lawyers start @ around $300hr - just to talk to a lawyer..)

Is it worth it?

Its up to you to decide.

henry93 · Oct 27, 2022

Hey Everyone

Thanks for sharing the info.

Even having some access to lawyers (friends or family) - What I hear always is

"it depends" or "how the case unfolds" and "convincing jury-judge" in short - complex, complicated, and confusing.

Here is what my wisdom says (being a beginner) -

Never touch fortune 500.
If generic words remind me of any brand - possibly leave it. e.g. apple, beauty glam, valet pro etc.
If a name is non-generic and brandable - better google first and be cautious. Check their social to see how big they are and what they could possibly possess.
If I own such a domain then, I better sell it fast @ 999 or whatever is being offered. UDRP costs 1500 so it's a win-win. I guess!
Outbound only when it's a 100% generic word. (when an average person doesn't associate the *word with any brand)

I think this will keep newbies like me safe!

Kindly Point out if I am wrong! #ReadyToLearn

DMCA , l don't understand the logic

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