question Offer from lawyer - should I respond?

devo · Oct 29, 2021

Hi

A lawyer who internet profile states he specializes in "investigating and enforcing against cybersquatters" has contacted me making an offer on one of my domain names that to my knowledge has no trademark associated with it. The offer is low xxxx and I want high xxxx.

I'm concerned that this is an offer, that if I refuse, the next email will be a UDRP proceeding. Should I respond or ignore? Should I counter?

Any advice would be appreciated.

jberryhill · Oct 29, 2021

devo said:
that to my knowledge has no trademark associated with it

Well this might be a good time to expand your knowledge. What any random poster on Namepros does to figure out whether there is a trademark associated with a domain name varies wildly, and is often based on folklore. So, it's tough to say in any given instance whether your effort will be appropriate to the circumstances.

devo said:
Should I respond or ignore? Should I counter?

It's often not about whether to respond, but how to respond. If, in step 1 above, you find that, for example, a company started using the mark in 2015 and you've had the domain name since 2011, then this is an opportune time to mention, somewhere in passing in your reply...."I've had this name since 2011, and..."

And then it depends on what sort of name are we talking about. Obviously, you registered it for a reason to believe it was valuable, and if the reason has nothing to do with the possible mark, then it's worth mentioning - as any competent sales person would - why you think the name has value.

For example:

Let's say you registered Dogbreath.com in 2017 because you thought it would be a great name for dog treats that improve dogs' breath. Now, let's say that you find out, by doing a GOOGLE SEARCH which is free and requires no technical skill or time investment beyond a fraction of a second, that some company started last year and makes energy drinks called Dog Breath. Then, and I know this is going to knock some people for a loop, TELL THE TRUTH:

"Hi, thanks for your inquiry. I registered this domain name in 2017 because I think it would be a great name for dog treats or oral care products to improve dogs' breath. Because of that, I believe the name is worth at least $XXXX."

You would then have done several things for yourself. If they were planning to file a UDRP based on their 2020 trademark for energy drinks, what they wanted from you was just a straightforward price quote. They would then use that as an exhibit in their complaint and claim your price was premised on their mark. By sending the response above, you have now screwed up that plan. They will leave your reply out of their UDRP filing, and you can actually nail them to the wall for not mentioning it in their filing.

Things that are dumb to say, include:

"I registered this for a project I'm working on" - yeah, bullshit. People who have had a domain name for ten years and claim to be working on a project are believed by nobody. On top of that, if things really get interesting, you could be put under oath and asked about that "project" of yours, and it doesn't help you to have to say, "Oh, I just said that because I'm full of shit." It doesn't make you credible.

"I have someone else who offered $xxxxxx" - Also not a good plan for similar reasons.

So, here's today's takeaways:

1. If you don't know, then try to find out what you don't know.

2. Don't say things to people that aren't actually true.

jberryhill · Oct 29, 2021

devo said:
"investigating and enforcing against cybersquatters"

Incidentally, there are only two lawyers on planet earth who have that phrase in their online profiles, and they both work for the same firm. One of them is a man, and one is a woman so...

devo said:
he

You might as well use Mr. Tyler's name, since you have uniquely identified him in your OP.

Also, because it is a large firm, you can also, for a more focused search, look for partial matches and using the firm name as filter term in the TESS database (which provides searching by a wide variety of data fields).

NickB · Oct 29, 2021

jberryhill said:
Incidentally, there are only two lawyers on planet earth who have that phrase in their online profiles, and they both work for the same firm. One of them is a man, and one is a woman so...

You might as well use Mr. Tyler's name, since you have uniquely identified him in your OP.

Also, because it is a large firm, you can also, for a more focused search, look for partial matches and using the firm name as filter term in the TESS database (which provides searching by a wide variety of data fields).

LOL

I only got 1 result from the whole of Google when I did the below search

Tyler "investigating and enforcing against cybersquatters"

Some good tips in those 2 posts

devo · Oct 29, 2021

@jberryhill you're a legend!

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply and I structured a response around your comments. I'm sure your advice will also help others.

Cheers
Dev

wwwulff · Oct 29, 2021

NickB said:
I only got 1 result from the whole of Google when I did the below search

Tyler "investigating and enforcing against cybersquatters"

Some good tips in those 2 posts

I got 2 - The one you saw and this thread (maybe not so good?)

nononsense123 · Oct 29, 2021

jberryhill said:
Well this might be a good time to expand your knowledge. What any random poster on Namepros does to figure out whether there is a trademark associated with a domain name varies wildly, and is often based on folklore. So, it's tough to say in any given instance whether your effort will be appropriate to the circumstances.

It's often not about whether to respond, but how to respond. If, in step 1 above, you find that, for example, a company started using the mark in 2015 and you've had the domain name since 2011, then this is an opportune time to mention, somewhere in passing in your reply...."I've had this name since 2011, and..."

And then it depends on what sort of name are we talking about. Obviously, you registered it for a reason to believe it was valuable, and if the reason has nothing to do with the possible mark, then it's worth mentioning - as any competent sales person would - why you think the name has value.

For example:

Let's say you registered Dogbreath.com in 2017 because you thought it would be a great name for dog treats that improve dogs' breath. Now, let's say that you find out, by doing a GOOGLE SEARCH which is free and requires no technical skill or time investment beyond a fraction of a second, that some company started last year and makes energy drinks called Dog Breath. Then, and I know this is going to knock some people for a loop, TELL THE TRUTH:

"Hi, thanks for your inquiry. I registered this domain name in 2017 because I think it would be a great name for dog treats or oral care products to improve dogs' breath. Because of that, I believe the name is worth at least $XXXX."

You would then have done several things for yourself. If they were planning to file a UDRP based on their 2020 trademark for energy drinks, what they wanted from you was just a straightforward price quote. They would then use that as an exhibit in their complaint and claim your price was premised on their mark. By sending the response above, you have now screwed up that plan. They will leave your reply out of their UDRP filing, and you can actually nail them to the wall for not mentioning it in their filing.

Things that are dumb to say, include:

"I registered this for a project I'm working on" - yeah, bullshit. People who have had a domain name for ten years and claim to be working on a project are believed by nobody. On top of that, if things really get interesting, you could be put under oath and asked about that "project" of yours, and it doesn't help you to have to say, "Oh, I just said that because I'm full of shit." It doesn't make you credible.

"I have someone else who offered $xxxxxx" - Also not a good plan for similar reasons.

So, here's today's takeaways:

1. If you don't know, then try to find out what you don't know.

2. Don't say things to people that aren't actually true.

What a legend this man is! Thanks!

johnn · Oct 29, 2021

If the Lawyer name is John Berryhill then you should be OK.
Otherwise check with your wife.

dncafe · Oct 29, 2021

Ignore and have a sales page on the domain with a buy it now priced at your high $x,xxx

Pradheep · Nov 9, 2021

outbound selling for $800-999

Braden has priced his domains $2500 - 5000 most cases.

price wisely for sale

jberryhill · Nov 17, 2021

jberryhill said:
Things that are dumb to say, include:

"I registered this for a project I'm working on" - yeah, bullshit. People who have had a domain name for ten years and claim to be working on a project are believed by nobody. On top of that, if things really get interesting, you could be put under oath and asked about that "project" of yours, and it doesn't help you to have to say, "Oh, I just said that because I'm full of shit." It doesn't make you credible.

"I have someone else who offered $xxxxxx" - Also not a good plan for similar reasons.

And this guy managed to do BOTH of those:

https://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/search/text.jsp?case=D2021-2971

The Complainant offered USD 35,000 for the disputed domain name. The Respondent rejected such offer, stating that multiple sources offered to pay double, and requested that the Complainant pay an undefined minimum amount. The Complainant contacted the Respondent again on October 6, 2020 at which point the Respondent asserted that the latest bid for the disputed domain name was USD 259,500. This does not reflect the true offer received by the Respondent and is not close to a fair value of the disputed domain name. The Respondent provided no evidence supporting such offer other than a list of different names and prices allegedly offered.

....

The Respondent contends as follows:

The Respondent legally purchased the disputed domain name in 2020 to develop a new concept of social media network.

...

The Respondent’s case is that, before notice to it of the dispute, it planned to use the disputed domain name in connection with a bona fide offering of goods or services, namely publication of a website featuring an independent, multilingual news and social media network. This is effectively a case in terms of paragraph 4(c)(i) of the Policy. The problem for the Respondent in its attempt to make out a case of this nature on the present record is that, beyond the holding page published after it acquired the disputed domain name, which itself described forthcoming similarities to the Complainant’s site sufficient to call into question whether it could be said to be bona fide and noninfringing, it has provided no evidence whatsoever of preparations to operate a bona fide noninfringing site.

...

Accordingly, it may be seen that less than ten days after winning an auction for the disputed domain name, the Respondent approached the Complainant stating that the disputed domain name was for sale. This does not appear to be consistent with the behavior of a new registrant of a domain name with plans to develop it into its own commercial website, as the Respondent asserts. Based upon the Panel’s chronology, after the initial approach by the Respondent there followed an alleged auction for the disputed domain name, which was ultimately discontinued by the Respondent. Finally, on October 18, 2020, the chronology shows the Respondent stating that the auction is over and that it is processing a deal with the winner. No evidence of this deal has been produced. In any event, the disputed domain name did not change hands following this process.

-----

I've excerpted enough to convey the basic outline of the situation. This guy got the name at auction, and contacted the TM owner ten days later to try to sell the domain name. After not getting the price he wanted, he pretended to hold an "auction" for the name and claims that someone else bid more than the complainant, but the name didn't transfer after that.

Then, he says that he got the name to develop some kind of social networking website. Yeah, right buddy, that's why you were trying to sell it in ten days after buying it.

Nobody is going to believe bullshit like this.

If you lie to people, those lies will come back to haunt you. Then, when you are in a dispute, nobody is going to generously believe that you only lie on Tuesdays, and you are honest the rest of the week. If you are caught lying - and you will be - you will lose.

Pradheep · Nov 17, 2021

if you haven't replied or don't have "domain for sale" page, hire a domain broker to close the deal.

NickB · Nov 17, 2021

Pradheep said:
if you haven't replied or don't have "domain for sale" page, hire a domain broker to close the deal.

I highly doubt a broker would get involved with this........

question Offer from lawyer - should I respond?

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