information Registrar employees or reps please respond How would you have handled it?

equity78 · Mar 7, 2021

With the ongoing situation with Brent Oxley and the lockdown of his domain names it's important for domain investors to know how other registrars would act, so please let the community know if given the same situation, what your company would have done? silence will be very telling.

@Dynadot
@namedotcom-jon
@epik
@sav
@Ross from Porkbun
@Mike Robertson Fabulous
@namesilo

Any any other registrar reps that are on Namepros

MapleDots · Mar 8, 2021

In addition to powering the .IE domain registry, the CIRA Registry Platform also powers .CA, .SX, .MLS and .KIWI registries, and is flexible and modular to accommodate the needs of any modern TLD.

SlackJawedYokel · Mar 8, 2021

Future Sensors said:
Thanks @equity78

Adding @SlackJawedYokel from Porkbun as well.

Here's the link to the ongoing thread https://www.namepros.com/threads/br...ions-of-dollars-worth-of-his-domains.1230431/

Thanks for the mention! Each case is unique but based on what I've read regarding this particular instance, unless I'm completely missing something, we would require an actual court order from a US court with competent jurisdiction. We would never get involved in what appears to be a business or contractual dispute between two people.

Shimmy · Mar 8, 2021

SlackJawedYokel said:
Thanks for the mention! Each case is unique but based on what I've read regarding this particular instance, unless I'm completely missing something, we would require an actual court order from a US court with competent jurisdiction. We would never get involved in what appears to be a business or contractual dispute between two people.

Best response from a registrar so far. I'm kind of disappointed in the namesilo response.

bmugford · Mar 8, 2021

SlackJawedYokel said:
Thanks for the mention! Each case is unique but based on what I've read regarding this particular instance, unless I'm completely missing something, we would require an actual court order from a US court with competent jurisdiction. We would never get involved in what appears to be a business or contractual dispute between two people.

Shimmy said:
Best response from a registrar so far. I'm kind of disappointed in the namesilo response.

Yes, that is the key point in all of this.

Brad

TheBuyerz · Mar 8, 2021

@epik & @namesilo my 2 favorite registrars gave already an answer on how to handle a similar situation...

While others...

equity78 · Mar 8, 2021

namesilo said:
Thank you for the tag.

At NameSilo, we review these types of situations on a case by case basis. It's difficult to comment confidently without knowing all the surrounding details, but as a US based registrar, we would request the Indian Court to work with their US counterpart and bring this civil court case there. In these types of situations, we typically work with the relevant stakeholders to understand the situation and act accordingly.

We aim to protect our customers where and when possible. However, we do also enforce legitimate court orders. Also, we would allow the registrant time to appeal their case and honor their rights to due process, as we do with UDRP cases.

Can you provide the same assurance as these other registrars wrote?

we would require an actual court order from a US court with competent jurisdiction. We would never get involved in what appears to be a business or contractual dispute between two people.

MackieMesser · Mar 9, 2021

Seems like a good time to check back here...

Thanks @equity78 for bringing this up.

Haven't read through alle the posts on the Brent Oxley case in this forum, but this is a serious issue and everyone owning domain names is interested to see that registrants take every effort to secure their rights and protect them and their domains from any fraudulent activity.

Internet.bs · Mar 9, 2021

Embrand said:
Maybe @Internet.bs could comment as well since someone mentioned in the Oxley thread that they are a safe choice for registrants.

I have to echo the sentiment of Namesilo, it is really hard to say definitively given we don't know the exact circumstances but I can give a general reply.

We follow the UDRP process and generally if someone makes a claim against a domain on a gTLD we will refer them to that process. We do not act on court orders from courts outside of our jurisdiction, which is the Bahamas. If we get allegations of a domain theft, it is usually accompanied by a recent transfer, and we will lock the domain/s so that we can launch our own investigations. But this has nothing to do with the courts and is more to do with just making sure that we are protecting domain owner's assets and livelihoods.

It is a really tricky deal for Registrars to be honest and we don't like being in this situation as it is lose-lose. Depending on the legitimacy of the complainant, we occasionally do need to seek legal representation and defend ourselves in court because we are caught up in a claim and want to protect our customers. This is very expensive for us and we don't get any extra money for the domain, but we spend 10s of thousands on this a year, so as to not allow a precedent. It can also block us from getting further investment in our company as financial investors will do due diligence and discover open court proceedings through this process, then raise as a risk. It sucks for us.

In the Brent Oxley situation I would guess that we would have locked the domain for a couple of weeks whilst we investigated the issue, when we found that the claimant had no legitimacy and that there was little risk to us from a legal point of view, we would have removed the locks and told the complainant to take a hike. That said, they probably wouldn't have tried it on a company based in the Bahamas because they assume they won't have much luck.

Best of luck to the domain owner.

FolioTeam · Mar 9, 2021

simmplex said:
@Rob Monster

Thanks for the quick reponse!

I would also like to know
will you lock or transfer a US, CN or GB restrant's domains upon an India, Nigeria or Turkey court order?

Or vice versa. Will a court order from from the US or GB or CA court lock or transfer a domain owned by a Nigerian registrant?

FolioTeam · Mar 9, 2021

Rob Monster said:
These things are reviewed on a case by case basis.

In general, we enforce court orders, and don't enable lawlessness. We are not a safe harbor for registrants who are lawless, or engaged in criminality.

However, for a civil case where the registrant convinces us that the case without merit and where they have filed appeal, there is a good chance we would not lock a domain.

The same applies to UDRP -- if we see a UDRP decision and a registrant is filing a civil action to challenge the result, the domain stays.

Ultimately, there is due process and rule of law. The court orders should not be ignored but if registrants are working in good faith to defend their property rights, we'll work with them.

Does this hold true regardless of where the registrant comes from or where the court is resided?

FolioTeam · Mar 9, 2021

Internet.bs said:
I have to echo the sentiment of Namesilo, it is really hard to say definitively given we don't know the exact circumstances but I can give a general reply.

We follow the UDRP process and generally if someone makes a claim against a domain on a gTLD we will refer them to that process. We do not act on court orders from courts outside of our jurisdiction, which is the Bahamas. If we get allegations of a domain theft, it is usually accompanied by a recent transfer, and we will lock the domain/s so that we can launch our own investigations. But this has nothing to do with the courts and is more to do with just making sure that we are protecting domain owner's assets and livelihoods.

It is a really tricky deal for Registrars to be honest and we don't like being in this situation as it is lose-lose. Depending on the legitimacy of the complainant, we occasionally do need to seek legal representation and defend ourselves in court because we are caught up in a claim and want to protect our customers. This is very expensive for us and we don't get any extra money for the domain, but we spend 10s of thousands on this a year, so as to not allow a precedent. It can also block us from getting further investment in our company as financial investors will do due diligence and discover open court proceedings through this process, then raise as a risk. It sucks for us.

In the Brent Oxley situation I would guess that we would have locked the domain for a couple of weeks whilst we investigated the issue, when we found that the claimant had no legitimacy and that there was little risk to us from a legal point of view, we would have removed the locks and told the complainant to take a hike. That said, they probably wouldn't have tried it on a company based in the Bahamas because they assume they won't have much luck.

Best of luck to the domain owner.

So what happens if the complainant is from the US and the registrant is from Timbuktu? Are you saying that the court order has to come from the Bahamas?

Internet.bs · Mar 9, 2021

FolioTeam said:
So what happens if the complainant is from the US and the registrant is from Timbuktu? Are you saying that the court order has to come from the Bahamas?

It doesn't make a difference to us where the Registrant or the complainant is from. It is not factored in at all.

FolioTeam · Mar 9, 2021

Internet.bs said:
It doesn't make a difference to us where the Registrant or the complainant is from. It is not factored in at all.

Thanks. Makes sense

MapleDots · Mar 9, 2021

Internet.bs said:
It doesn't make a difference to us where the Registrant or the complainant is from. It is not factored in at all.

In Canada our registrar would need a Canadian court order, so the odds of this happening are exponentially smaller.

Internet.bs · Mar 9, 2021

MapleDots said:
In Canada our registrar would need a Canadian court order, so the odds of this happening are exponentially smaller.

To be clear to everyone, we are not trying to suggest that one registrar is safer than any other. These can be incredibly complex issues and ultimately every domain investor should ensure they understand the value of their names and secure them properly, these are valuable assets. The best recommendation that I could give is to try to develop a personal relationship with your Registrar and to make sure you trust the motivation behind their actions, that way you can be sure that if any tricky situations pop up they are going to talk to you about it and take in your side before they take any rash actions. You want your registrar to take each case as it comes. In a different situation, if a name was stolen from my account I would want to make sure that the registrar treated my allegation seriously and locked the name down so nothing else could happen.

Whilst it is concerning, to be fair, GoDaddy have not released the names to a third party and they haven't said they are going to act on the court order from overseas. They have actually locked the domains down further to be sure that they are secure whilst they work it out.

FolioTeam · Mar 9, 2021

Internet.bs said:
To be clear to everyone, we are not trying to suggest that one registrar is safer than any other. These can be incredibly complex issues and ultimately every domain investor should ensure they understand the value of their names and secure them properly, these are valuable assets. The best recommendation that I could give is to try to develop a personal relationship with your Registrar and to make sure you trust the motivation behind their actions, that way you can be sure that if any tricky situations pop up they are going to talk to you about it and take in your side before they take any rash actions. You want your registrar to take each case as it comes. In a different situation, if a name was stolen from my account I would want to make sure that the registrar treated my allegation seriously and locked the name down so nothing else could happen.

Whilst it is concerning, to be fair, GoDaddy have not released the names to a third party and they haven't said they are going to act on the court order from overseas. They have actually locked the domains down further to be sure that they are secure whilst they work it out.

On the issue of jurisdiction, what happens tomorrow if internet.bs grows and expands beyond the Bahamas, resulting in registering a presence in other jurisdictions like the US and GB? What happens in that case? Which court order(s) will be recognized?

Future Sensors · Mar 9, 2021

Internet.bs said:
To be clear to everyone, we are not trying to suggest that one registrar is safer than any other. These can be incredibly complex issues and ultimately every domain investor should ensure they understand the value of their names and secure them properly, these are valuable assets. The best recommendation that I could give is to try to develop a personal relationship with your Registrar and to make sure you trust the motivation behind their actions, that way you can be sure that if any tricky situations pop up they are going to talk to you about it and take in your side before they take any rash actions. You want your registrar to take each case as it comes. In a different situation, if a name was stolen from my account I would want to make sure that the registrar treated my allegation seriously and locked the name down so nothing else could happen.

Whilst it is concerning, to be fair, GoDaddy have not released the names to a third party and they haven't said they are going to act on the court order from overseas. They have actually locked the domains down further to be sure that they are secure whilst they work it out.

I have to disagree with the last paragraph. Especially when you introduce it with the words "to be fair". It's the core of the Godaddy problem, and the domains have restrictions based on... what? They owner wants their valuable assets to be freed from these restrictions. For a long period already.

Internet.bs · Mar 9, 2021

FolioTeam said:
On the issue of jurisdiction, what happens tomorrow if internet.bs grows and expands beyond the Bahamas, resulting in registering a presence in other jurisdictions like the US and GB? What happens in that case? Which court order(s) will be recognized?

Any court which has jurisdiction over any company is going to be recognised.

FolioTeam · Mar 9, 2021

Internet.bs said:
Any court which has jurisdiction over any company is going to be recognised.

Thanks for the response. I think that's something peculiar to many multi-national companies.

Internet.bs · Mar 9, 2021

Future Sensors said:
I have to disagree with the last paragraph. Especially when you introduce it with the words "to be fair". It's the core of the Godaddy problem, and the domains have restrictions based on... what? They owner wants their valuable assets to be freed from these restrictions. For a long period already.

I can see that side for sure, if it has been a long time that is a problem.

MapleDots · Mar 9, 2021

The second Canadian registrar who is icann accredited has responded

whc.ca says

I would always advocate using a Canadian registrar’s services when domaining in Canada or registering .CA domains, over using similar services from an international provider.

One reason for this is jurisdiction. Having your provider operate within the same legal framework as your own business makes sense and will generally ensure that issues similar to the ones described in this post are avoided or at least easier to respond to, should they occur.

From what I know (and this is without having consulted our legal team, and without myself being a lawyer), WHC will respond to court orders that are valid in Canada, or requests from registries that follow their Domain Resolution Process (UDRP for ICANN or CDRP for CIRA; which I invite any serious domainer to familiarize themselves with).

We have and will continue to turn down requests that do not follow due process or have not been approved by a Canadian court (or the bodies designated for this by each registry), and conversely we’ll also act diligently to collaborate with law enforcement when their requests are backed by a valid court order.

There is a reason Canada is used by a number of larger corporations for hosting and domain registrations.

MapleDots · Mar 9, 2021

PS.

I prefer this topic over the Brent Oxley one because here we can discuss the issue at hand without the emotional baggage and personal opinions in the other topic.

Shimmy · Mar 9, 2021

The response from the registars should be this simple "We would never take part in business contract disptue unless ownership of a domain is involved. It would take a court order from a Country that has jurisdiction over us to take part in what appears to be a commission disptue."

equity78 · Mar 9, 2021

Internet.bs said:
In the Brent Oxley situation I would guess that we would have locked the domain for a couple of weeks whilst we investigated the issue, when we found that the claimant had no legitimacy and that there was little risk to us from a legal point of view, we would have removed the locks and told the complainant to take a hike. That said, they probably wouldn't have tried it on a company based in the Bahamas because they assume they won't have much luck.

Best of luck to the domain owner.

This is the key part of the reply.

Future Sensors · Mar 9, 2021

MapleDots said:
PS.

I prefer this topic over the Brent Oxley one because here we can discuss the issue at hand without the emotional baggage and personal opinions in the other topic.

Agree. And when Godaddy is ready, they can post the outcome of their thought process here in just a few straightforward paragraphs. Hope it will not take too long.

https://www.namepros.com/threads/br...h-of-his-domains.1230431/page-13#post-8190365

[...] In the last 36 hours, we've been having some serious discussions about our policies, processes, and ultimately, how we can better serve our customers while protecting everyone's legal rights. We have already engaged the ICA and other industry experts to determine if there are any changes we should and could make. As we make progress, we will keep the community posted. [...]

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