trademark Most For Sale Premium Domains are Trademarked

Ostrados · Jan 14, 2021

I see that most premium domain names listed for sale are trademarked! That includes Premium domains that are:
- Listed for sale in the Aftermarket
- Sold everyday in expired auctions at 4 or 5 figures
- Listed for sale at Namperos "Top" section

And by premium I refer to names that are registered in 40+ TLDs.

While I do my best to avoid buying any TM names, but these names are everywhere, and when I search for a super premium domain name to buy, 99% of names I find are trademarked.

What I am missing?

biggie · Jan 14, 2021

Hi

Ostrados said:
I see that most premium domain names listed for sale are trademarked!

where are the examples of such names?

Ostrados said:
And by premium I refer to names that are registered in 40+ TLDs

Ostrados said:
and when I search for a super premium domain name to buy, 99% of names I find are trademarked.

so, if premium = 40+ tlds registered....
does "super premium" = to 80 + tlds registered?

and if only 20 tlds registered, is the name "sub-premium or regular"

and if no other tlds are registered then, is it "anti-premium"?

still want to see these tm premium names you speak of....

imo.....

Ostrados · Jan 14, 2021

biggie said:
where are the examples of such names?

It is not appropriate to list such names in public! I will send you a PM.

biggie said:
so, if premium = 40+ tlds registered....
does "super premium" = to 80 + tlds registered?

and if only 20 tlds registered, is the name "sub-premium or regular"

and if no other tlds are registered then, is it "anti-premium"?

I am not discussing what makes a premium name... It is just an observation that "Premium" names taken in 40+ TLDs are more often trademarked that "Premium" names taken in less number of TLDs. I observed that TM is strongly correlated with how popular the name is (ex: taken TLDs).

Ostrados · Jan 14, 2021

Anyone reading this: please do not post any domain names in this thread, make it general discussion please.

DuDD · Jan 14, 2021

Because they all know that the domain name belongs to the end users
So the premium names were all trademarked

D Haynes · Jan 14, 2021

People worry about TMs too much. Unless it's a blatant infringement you'll be OK (usually).

Generic names are fine. So as an example...

Pinnacle - fine
PinnacleFinance - more risky
PinnacleFinancePortland - big risk

That's not based on any real life scenario but you get the idea.

Ostrados · Jan 14, 2021

D Haynes said:
People worry about TMs too much. Unless it's a blatant infringement you'll be OK (usually).

Generic names are fine. So as an example...

Pinnacle - fine
PinnacleFinance - more risky
PinnacleFinancePortland - big risk

That's not based on any real life scenario but you get the idea.

Dont you think it is risky to spend 4 to 5 figures on TM names? Domainers buy such names on daily basis.

D Haynes · Jan 14, 2021

Ostrados said:
Dont you think it is risky to spend 4 to 5 figures on TM names? Domainers buy such names on daily basis.

Depends on the name and the TM. Would I buy Pinnacle for 5 figures? (if I had it) in a heartbeat and I'm guessing there are TMs for that.

lock · Jan 14, 2021

All depends on the TM eg Apple don't sell apples. You could have appletreats and sell apple treats.

Ostrados · Jan 14, 2021

lock said:
All depends on the TM eg Apple don't sell apples. You could have appletreats and sell apple treats.

The cases I am talking about are exact match TMs mostly 1 word names.
would you buy apple(.)com if it was available for sale?

FolioTeam · Jan 14, 2021

Ostrados said:
The cases I am talking about are exact match TMs mostly 1 word names.
would you buy apple(.)com if it was available for sale?

Yes.

Would I buy Google or Microsoft if they were for sale? No

lock · Jan 14, 2021

Ostrados said:
The cases I am talking about are exact match TMs mostly 1 word names.
would you buy apple(.)com if it was available for sale?

And make best feeling apple pie.

Ostrados · Jan 14, 2021

I am not sure if the replies are helpful, what I am still messing?
So you say if the name is generic no problem to buy even if it has TM.
But who said I am talking about generic names only? The trademarked names I am talking about in many cases are madeup, CVCV, LLL... etc, being bought by domainers everywhere without any fear from TM.

FolioTeam · Jan 14, 2021

Ostrados said:
I am not sure if the replies are helpful, what I am still messing?
So you say if the name is generic no problem to buy even if it has TM.
But who said I am talking about generic names only? The trademarked names I am talking about in many cases are madeup, CVCV, LLL... etc, being bought by domainers everywhere without any fear from TM.

I have a name I registered some 2-3 years ago. While browsing through the internet during the holidays, I noticed some fintech company had the name trademarked last year for one of their new B2B products. See article below:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ei...d-platform-leveraging-ai-machine-learning-nlp

Does it bother me? No.

Will I knowingly register the name today with that trademark in place? No.

I might buy it if someone already has it registered way before that trademark was filed. But, that's still a maybe.

TM laws are intricate and I am no expert. Just stating my opinion.

D Haynes · Jan 14, 2021

Ostrados said:
I am not sure if the replies are helpful, what I am still messing?
So you say if the name is generic no problem to buy even if it has TM.
But who said I am talking about generic names only? The trademarked names I am talking about in many cases are madeup, CVCV, LLL... etc, being bought by domainers everywhere without any fear from TM.

LLLs are no problem as they can be very broad the same as CVCVs so probably no issue there either. Longer made up names can be more dangerous. It depends also on the registration dates of the names and the TMs also. I'm sure there are lots of intricacies around TM laws and disputes but unless it's a blatant infringement I wouldn't worry too much.

lock · Jan 14, 2021

As mentioned apple doesn't sell apples The trademark doesn't cover apples. I would be foolish to try sell ear buds for example.

biggie · Jan 14, 2021

Ostrados said:
It is not appropriate to list such names in public! I will send you a PM.

Hi

i would not consider such, as tm names, even if someone has one

acronyms, can be used for variety of businesses as well as proper names and nouns.

so, i don't see any obvious risks, in those examples.

btw:
years ago, somebody who claimed they were an expert, they told me that my "LL.org" was a TM.
yet, they still made an offer to buy it

and with that in mind,
i'm thinking, this could be used as a jedi mind trick, one might use to get a cheaper price from seller.

imo...

NickB · Jan 14, 2021

Have a look at the below

https://www.wipo.int/classification...e=flat&notion=&pagination=no&version=20210101

Take note on the left hand side of the "Class Index" or "Services" section - click on on one of them and see how many there are.......

A word/domain can have a TM in one of or multiple categories but can still be used for others......lot of potential possibilities

If I have understood it correctly.....that is

Mister Funsky · Jan 14, 2021

Ok, real world example from several years ago.

I have a two word domain with one word belonging to one of the oldest (and largest) corporations in America. The other word also belongs to a large corporation and both those entities operate on that single word, respectively. But together they make a persons name. I received a letter (email) from the first corporation in the example telling me I was infringing on them. I had a two word reply...haven't heard from them since.

I am not monetizing the domain to ensure I do not have any issues from that standpoint...however, I am not an attorney and was told earlier today, by an ex, that I am an 'ass hat', so maybe I am wrong.

Ostrados · Jan 14, 2021

I am not sure what is wrong or right on this topic, there are many different opinions. The general advice given to domainers is to avoid TM names for peace of mind. There are many stories about domains lost in NDA and sometimes with big fines, but yet it seems trading with TM names is everyday normal thing to do in dominating community.

Personally I try to avoid names when they are exact match to a LIVE TM, in some few cases I hand reg TM names but I immediately delete when I discover the TM. In one case I bought a domain here at NP then later was rejected at Sedo because of TM now I am stuck with the name and I don't know what to do with it, I listed it at low bin and I plan to drop after it expires.

In short there are no clear guidelines about buying TM names like: what is risky and what is not? When you should be worried and when you should not?

lambo.com · Jan 15, 2021

D Haynes said:
People worry about TMs too much. Unless it's a blatant infringement you'll be OK (usually).

Generic names are fine. So as an example...

Pinnacle - fine
PinnacleFinance - more risky
PinnacleFinancePortland - big risk

That's not based on any real life scenario but you get the idea.

We have a winner...

DomainNature · Jan 15, 2021

Did you look on? trademark,com
Check this Link.
Don’t forget domain names. The web is a crucial component of most marketing efforts today, making domains essential brand assets. Consider making sure up front that the trademark’s domain name is available and not already in use by someone else.
Not sure but i feel if you own a domain which already have a trademark and it is not in use, in such case they will have to buy it from you, this is my own opinion.

freety85 · Jan 16, 2021

trademark law is quite complex so no way anyone here would be expert on the field, however there are some things you can do to mitigate risk. Don't take this as a legal advice, but this is how I'm trying to interpret TM law, and intend to avoid issues:

- definitely avoid worldwide known super strong TM's especially if not generic keywords
- if you are in a different country then the TM is registered in, you might be fine if the TM is not super strong, widely known
- never ever reach out to TM holder to sell the name
- don't park the domain
- if there are multiple different TM holders for generic keyword(s) where the marks are not worldwide known, you still might be viewed as legit owner and NOT registered in bad faith
- in case you registered the domain before the TM filed you should be fine

At the end of the day, if you check the successful domainer's portfolio who own quality aged names, you will find many of these kind of "TM borderline" names and many of them have won several UDRP's ( each case is unique and to be treated differently)

In case you invest in the regfee - 50 USD range, worst case scenario you hand over the name for some nominal fee or not sure whether you decide not defending the UDRP will involve some cost or not.

Regarding names valued at high 4 figures+ comes with a headache whether it is worthy to defend them for 3.5k plus cost.

Again, it is better to consult with an attorney if you receive a cease and desist, UDRP letter.

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