question If Domainers cared about trademarks why was this domain sold

KnifeCatcher said:

EPARA .com sold for 11k yet it is trademarked in a plethora of countries.

Am I missing something?

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The domain name expired and it's actually the third time it was auctioned. No pay first two times.

Secondly because there is a tm does not mean someone cannot own a domain name, they cannot infringe on the mark.

It's also an acronym
Emergency Preparedness and Response Action Read more at http://acronymsandslang.com/EPARA-meaning.html

Lastly all domainers do not care about trademarks. Many trade in them.

You wil always get people with no integrity who will do anything for money, it doesnt make it right and it certanly wont help your reputation in the doman industry. It also comes down to usage.

The same as you get people who will steal from a store, its still wrong but some people just don't care.

There are loads of TM names on the all the marketplaces, 99% of which will never sell.

KnifeCatcher said:

EPARA .com sold for 11k yet it is trademarked in a plethora of countries.

Am I missing something?

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In many a sense you are. There is nothing stopping anyone using this nice pronounceable 5 letter domain outside of the registered trademark categories. Perhaps even trademark it in a category of their own choosing INCLUDING those Existing categories (providing the usage is deemed to be different enough) That will certainly be the holding argument of the buyer/user or any subsequent sale down the line.

Always best to have a reasonable foundation in Trademark law if your going to invest in domains

Revisiting said:

In many a sense you are. There is nothing stopping anyone using this nice pronounceable 5 letter domain outside of the registered trademark categories. Perhaps even trademark it in a category of there own choosing INCLUDING Existing categories (providing the usage is different) That will certainly be the holding argument of the buyer/user or any subsequent sale down the line.

Always best to have a reasonable foundation in Trademark law if your going to invest in domains

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That's what I was wondering. If a domain is trademarked for a certain categories, and you intend to use it for something else, is that still infringing on a trademark? If so what is the point of choosing a trademark category when you register it

When you chose a category and have a mark you can contest/object a new mark being regged. Especially in your category or categories.Some TM holders care about that some don’t.

The purpose of the category is to stake your claim in a niche you fully intend or have developed in.

Buying TM domains even aged ones come with an inherently higher risk that someone will try to UDRP it out of your hands. Its higher stakes.

I found this interesting - Out of curiosity, I have directly messaged one of the major brand domains and asked if they cared about trademark. They said that it is the buyer's responsibility to check and that a domain can be used in different areas than what it is trademarked for

gilescoley said:

You wil always get people with no integrity who will do anything for money, it doesnt make it right and it certanly wont help your reputation in the doman industry. It also comes down to usage.

The same as you get people who will steal from a store, its still wrong but some people just don't care.

There are loads of TM names on the all the marketplaces, 99% of which will never sell.

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I think a lot of domainers are actually just scared to be honest. I have a lawyer that goes over my domains that are questionable, domain names that most people run away from. But just because something is trademarked doesnt mean that you cant use the name. I think a lot of domainers dont know the actual laws.

For instance... I own BigWin.casino. Big win has a live trademark. It is owned by a company in the food industry. Because they are in the food industry and because my domain has the .casino extension showing a completely different industry, it avoids any confusion to the big win trademark. There was also a trademark for big win casino. The trademark is dead and has been since 2016. they make downloadable casino games and are not associated with the casino industry. The fact that the trademark has been dead for almost 5 years and the fact that we are in two different industries would as my lawyer put it "make it almost impossible for them to prove any harm to their business." And when you really dive deep into it the .casino extension is not technically part of the name, its an extension to identify a specific industry which further separates bigwin.casino from big win casino.

I can see how a lot of people wouldnt even want to take the chance, but there are some gems out there that people are scared of using just because they dont actually know the trademark laws.

ThexxShwa said:

I think a lot of domainers are actually just scared to be honest. I have a lawyer that goes over my domains that are questionable, domain names that most people run away from. But just because something is trademarked doesnt mean that you cant use the name. I think a lot of domainers dont know the actual laws.

For instance... I own BigWin.casino. Big win has a live trademark. It is owned by a company in the food industry. Because they are in the food industry and because my domain has the .casino extension showing a completely different industry, it avoids any confusion to the big win trademark. There was also a trademark for big win casino. The trademark is dead and has been since 2016. they make downloadable casino games and are not associated with the casino industry. The fact that the trademark has been dead for almost 5 years and the fact that we are in two different industries would as my lawyer put it "make it almost impossible for them to prove any harm to their business." And when you really dive deep into it the .casino extension is not technically part of the name, its an extension to identify a specific industry which further separates bigwin.casino from big win casino.

I can see how a lot of people wouldnt even want to take the chance, but there are some gems out there that people are scared of using just because they dont actually know the trademark laws.

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As I said above, it all comes down to usage.
The issue you will see here is most TM names registered here are blatant infringements. Its not people registering AppleCorp.com and starting a farm stall selling Apples, they buy the name in bad faith with one thing in mind.

And when you really dive deep into it the .casino extension is not technically part of the name, its an extension to identify a specific industry which further separates bigwin.casino from big win casino.

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You need to read the legal section, its not as cut and dry as that, just because its an extension, doesnt make any diffference, you would have a hard time proving that you are not infringing on a "big win casino" trademark with BigWin.Casino

There are gambling/casino TMs for a whole host of "Big Win" companies like Big Win, Big Win Video Poker, Big Win 777, Big Win Sports, Big Win Bingo, Big Win Blackjack ...its really not worth the risk with a name like that, especially with a weak extension like .casino with 20 reported sales ever.

The TMs are for the following

Goods and ServicesIC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Downloadable computer game software and video game software, namely, software for slot machine games; downloadable software for slot machines games
IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S: Videogaming apparatus, namely, slot machines for gambling
IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Games services provided online via computer networks, namely, providing online slot machine games
IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Entertainment services, namely, providing online video games; production of animated film clips in the field of video games; providing entertainment in the form of non-downloadable animated film clips in the field of video games; providing video games via electronic global communications network; providing information via electronic global communications network in the fields of gaming, and computer and video games; competitions in the field of playing video and computer games; all of the aforementioned excluding casino services, gambling services and lottery services

There are some very experienced legal experts on here who have been involved in a lot of UDRP's that will confirm that too.

gilescoley said:

As I said above, it all comes down to usage.
The issue you will see here is most TM names registered here are blatant infringements. Its not people registering AppleCorp.com and starting a farm stall selling Apples, they buy the name in bad faith with one thing in mind.



You need to read the legal section, its not as cut and dry as that, just because its an extension, doesnt make any diffference, you would have a hard time proving that you are not infringing on a "big win casino" trademark with BigWin.Casino

There are gambling/casino TMs for a whole host of "Big Win" companies like Big Win, Big Win Video Poker, Big Win 777, Big Win Sports, Big Win Bingo, Big Win Blackjack ...its really not worth the risk with a name like that, especially with a weak extension like .casino with 20 reported sales ever.

The TMs are for the following

Goods and ServicesIC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Downloadable computer game software and video game software, namely, software for slot machine games; downloadable software for slot machines games
IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S: Videogaming apparatus, namely, slot machines for gambling
IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Games services provided online via computer networks, namely, providing online slot machine games
IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Entertainment services, namely, providing online video games; production of animated film clips in the field of video games; providing entertainment in the form of non-downloadable animated film clips in the field of video games; providing video games via electronic global communications network; providing information via electronic global communications network in the fields of gaming, and computer and video games; competitions in the field of playing video and computer games; all of the aforementioned excluding casino services, gambling services and lottery services

There are some very experienced legal experts on here who have been involved in a lot of UDRP's that will confirm that too.

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I had my lawyer extensively review this domain. If you look at what you posted it literally says excluding casino services, gambling services, and lottery services. It is a completely different industry. No offense, but I trust my lawyer more than your opinion.

gilescoley said:

As I said above, it all comes down to usage.
The issue you will see here is most TM names registered here are blatant infringements. Its not people registering AppleCorp.com and starting a farm stall selling Apples, they buy the name in bad faith with one thing in mind.



You need to read the legal section, its not as cut and dry as that, just because its an extension, doesnt make any diffference, you would have a hard time proving that you are not infringing on a "big win casino" trademark with BigWin.Casino

There are gambling/casino TMs for a whole host of "Big Win" companies like Big Win, Big Win Video Poker, Big Win 777, Big Win Sports, Big Win Bingo, Big Win Blackjack ...its really not worth the risk with a name like that, especially with a weak extension like .casino with 20 reported sales ever.

The TMs are for the following

Goods and ServicesIC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Downloadable computer game software and video game software, namely, software for slot machine games; downloadable software for slot machines games
IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S: Videogaming apparatus, namely, slot machines for gambling
IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Games services provided online via computer networks, namely, providing online slot machine games
IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Entertainment services, namely, providing online video games; production of animated film clips in the field of video games; providing entertainment in the form of non-downloadable animated film clips in the field of video games; providing video games via electronic global communications network; providing information via electronic global communications network in the fields of gaming, and computer and video games; competitions in the field of playing video and computer games; all of the aforementioned excluding casino services, gambling services and lottery services

There are some very experienced legal experts on here who have been involved in a lot of UDRP's that will confirm that too.

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and im not sure if you noticed, but big win casino abandoned their trademark in 2016, another reason my lawyer said i was in the clear

while we are on the topic of trademarks. Lets say someone did sell a trademarked name to a company (not the one that owned the trademark). Who gets bent over and #@!*, is it the one who sold it or the one that bought it or both?

ThexxShwa said:

and im not sure if you noticed, but big win casino abandoned their trademark in 2016, another reason my lawyer said i was in the clear

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Yeah, it wasnt that one you need to worry about but more of an issue is all the "live" gambling TMs for "Big Win"

Do a search at uspto.gov and you will see them. Live "Big Win" TM's in the gambling industry, it really cant get much clearer than that. Some filed all the way back in 2012 and some this year too.

Don't waste your time with them, unless you had a plan to develop your binsess around it and are willing to go to court and spend money defending yourself, just for a sake of a domain sale. You will struggle to sell it anyway being a .casino extension.

gilescoley said:

Yeah, it wasnt that one you need to worry about but more of an issue is all the "live" gambling TMs for "Big Win"

Do a search at uspto.gov and you will see them. Live "Big Win" TM's in the gambling industry, it really cant get much clearer than that. Some filed all the way back in 2012 and some this year too.

Don't waste your time with them, unless you had a plan to develop your binsess around it and are willing to go to court and spend money defending yourself, just for a sake of a domain sale. You will struggle to sell it anyway being a .casino extension.

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Why do you think I gave that domain to my lawyer? I run every domain through TESS before I buy it. And your credibility keeps declining. What do you mean ALL the live gambling TM's? I'm not sure you have looked through TESS. There is one land based that is DREAM BIG WIN BIG. All of those other ones that are a variation (which are the only ones I could assume you were referring to) are all software games. These are like those bar slot video games. And I am willing to go to the top court with it because there is literally no infringement. Again, I trust what my lawyer told me.

ThexxShwa said:

Why do you think I gave that domain to my lawyer? I run every domain through TESS before I buy it. And your credibility keeps declining. What do you mean ALL the live gambling TM's? I'm not sure you have looked through TESS. There is one land based that is DREAM BIG WIN BIG. All of those other ones that are a variation (which are the only ones I could assume you were referring to) are all software games. These are like those bar slot video games. And I am willing to go to the top court with it because there is literally no infringement. Again, I trust what my lawyer told me.

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Not sure why you think my credibility is declining, just stating facts from the TM databases

Its all there in black and white, maybe get your lawyer to check trademarkia as well. I'd be curious to know how many UDRPs he's defended in the past.

IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Video game software; video and computer game programs; downloadable computer and video game software; video game cartridges and cassettes; video game discs; computer game discs; computer programs and data recorded in computer accessible form for use as hand-held games; all of the aforementioned excluding games of chance, casino wares and lottery wares

IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Entertainment services, namely, providing online video games; production of animated film clips in the field of video games; providing entertainment in the form of non-downloadable animated film clips in the field of video games; providing video games via electronic global communications network; providing information via electronic global communications network in the fields of gaming, and computer and video games; competitions in the field of playing video and computer games; and all of the aforementioned casino services, gambling services and lottery services

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I do wish you all the best though

gilescoley said:

Not sure why you think my credibility is declining, just stating facts from the TM databases

Its all there in black and white, maybe get your lawyer to check trademarkia as well. I'd be curious to know how many UDRPs he's defended in the past.



I do wish you all the best though

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Im not sure what TM that is for, but if it is for big win casino, it has been dead for 4 years

ThexxShwa said:

Im not sure what TM that is for, but if it is for big win casino, it has been dead for 4 years

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No, its not dead, you can select "live" when searching so it only picks up live TM's

gilescoley said:

No, its not dead, you can select "live" when searching so it only picks up live TM's

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I dont know what to tell you man. big win casnio is dead, there is 3 of them. it doesnt matter either way. I had my lawyer look at it, i trust him. thats it.

ThexxShwa said:

I dont know what to tell you man. big win casnio is dead, there is 3 of them. it doesnt matter either way. I had my lawyer look at it, i trust him. thats it.

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if you select live for big win casino it comes back as "no records found".

ThexxShwa said:

I dont know what to tell you man. big win casnio is dead, there is 3 of them. it doesnt matter either way. I had my lawyer look at it, i trust him. thats it.

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Im just trying to be helpful as I have seen it many times over the years. You will have issues with "Big Win", it doesnt have to have the "casino" in it if the "Big Win" TM is gambling related. This is pretty common if you google some UDRP examples. You stated it yourself that its "Big Win" but because the .casino is the extension, its not actually part of the name.

If you research it a bit more there are lots of examples where the TM only has to be similar and in the same industry to lose. I will leave you to it now and unwatch the thread, its just advice Im giving, you can do what you want with it. Good luck

big win tm is not gambling related

Go say that to google or facebook the bigger you are the most powerful you are in the court @ThexxShwa if you take Facebooks and use it for a book industry ask your lawyer he will answer you " How much money you are willing to pay for facing GAFA in justice "

Yes you are, "domainers" say a lot of things just so they can reap the benefits themselves.

EPARA is back on dropcatch as a dropped domain

Officially and publicly it's not allowed and some domainers will even comes up with a great arguments and become elites on legal stuffs, while in the other hand you find them selling TM domains unofficially and secretly breaking all laws.

It's bad to focus on TM domain names, you will find better interest and great domains in some niches.