Sedo helps flippers

topdom said:

We are "scammed" via sales to flippers all the time, because Sedo makes our data almost public, but hides buyer data even after sale is fully complete. Why do it: to hide actual buyers, to prevent us from realizing that the bidder was not the buyer but someone who plays both sides? If so, how does Sedo benefit from it: it only means less profit for Sedo, unless Sedo itself is the flipper. How can I know whether the same flipper is scamming me all the time, while he hides behind anonimty provided by Sedo. And if I accept a low price once, he will never make fair offers.

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This is a false narrative of domaining, why does it matter who is buying your name? You set the price you want. If you are going to always be paranoid, oh did someone like Rosener or Mann buy my name and they will get a better price down the road. Change your business model.

If you own a 4L.com and want $2,888 who cares who buys it? If you wanted $2,888. If you want $5,000 ask for $5,000. @Sedo has a lot of flaws but they are not scamming anyone here.

Sedo (might not) be scamming but in any case helping flippers who might be scamming.
In BIN case there is no difference, but in make offer case it makes all the difference.
Sedo makes this an unfair game. Why hide buyer info even after sale is complete. Why show ours to buyers even before payment.

The question is... If this was a common issue, how would this profit sedo? It doesn't.

Also, you seem to think domain flippers are scammers. That's quite the statement.

How is sedo hiding buyer data? I always get the full data so that I can issue the invoice.

pb said:

How is sedo hiding buyer data? I always get the full data so that I can issue the invoice.

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Sometimes they hide sometimes they don't.

topdom said:

Sometimes they hide sometimes they don't.

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You may always ask them to show you full buyers deals in any failed transaction. They will.

On thread topic:
1) Put BIN prices to all your domains
2) Do NOT negotiate with anybody. "take it or leave it". You will also some valuable time...
3) Flippers will not bother you. Or, if they like to pay your BIN (which is public and clearly shown, this is the key) - let it so be.

NameDeck said:

The question is... If this was a common issue, how would this profit sedo? It doesn't.

Also, you seem to think domain flippers are scammers. That's quite the statement.

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Yes it doesn't make sense, but they insist on doing it.

Flippers may be scammers sometimes. Some people try to sell domains which they don't own.
Some find buyers for domains regularly (using their connections), and then try to buy those domains
before actual buyers do, and try to buy for a very low price, and ..once a deal is done, they don't pay if they are not paid. This is not fair game. It prevents many sales and fair (higher possible) prices.
What if some GD agent is doing it. He would know me well, but I would have no idea who I'm bidding against.

topdom said:

We are "scammed" via sales to flippers all the time, because Sedo makes our data almost public, but hides buyer data even after sale is fully complete. Why do it: to hide actual buyers, to prevent us from realizing that the bidder was not the buyer but someone who plays both sides? If so, how does Sedo benefit from it: it only means less profit for Sedo, unless Sedo itself is the flipper. How can I know whether the same flipper is scamming me all the time, while he hides behind anonimty provided by Sedo. And if I accept a low price once, he will never make fair offers.

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Only sell at a price you are happy with, regardless of the buyer. Unless, you are liquidating.

FolioTeam said:

Only sell at a price you are happy with, regardless of the buyer. Unless, you are liquidating.

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I may be happy with 100 but happier with 10K. Why should I get 100 and let the flipper get 10K from sale of my domain, or not be able to sell for 1K, because that flipper wants 10K.

topdom said:

I may be happy with 100 but happier with 10K. Why should I get 100 and let the flipper get 10K from sale of my domain, or not be able to sell for 1K, because that flipper wants 10K.

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If you will be happier with 10k, then set 10k and wait it out. Don't sweat the small stuff.

Then don't sell so low? If you are selling low there is a high chance it will be another investor or flipper.

Sell high, sell low,.. in all cases bidding against flippers make us lose. I'm surprised noone else complains about it. Even if there is no flipper issue, still, showing seller data and hiding buyer data is unfair. (maybe everyone means, use Sedo for buying purposes and GD for selling purposes. if so, I may try it one day.)

Your repeated use of the word 'scam' in your namepros posts is extremely unfair and unfounded. I have provided you with my personal number many times so you can always contact me directly if you think you are being scammed in anyway and we can discuss any issues you have about Sedo, but I am still yet to get a call from you, I am happy to help you and settle any concerns you have. No, you are not being scammed and no Sedo is not involved in any secret scams against you. Domain flipping is not a scam, it is only human nature to want to buy something as cheap as you can and that’s what they do so they can make a bit of money when they sell the domain on, this is a sales tactic and not a scam. If you sell a domain then you should only list the domain for sale at a price that you are happy to sell the domain for. I would suggest you set a minimum offer on your domains so that interested parties can only start negotiations with you on a price your happy with to start with in the first place. An alternative is, using a fixed price Buy Now.

Sedo does not show all sellers data publicly during negotiations, all that can be seen is the country of origin and the year since they have been active on Sedo. During the negotiation phase buyers and seller may negotiate anonymously that is true. However, your statement about hiding buyers data after a sale is false. When the transfer completes, the seller can see the buyers information on the purchase and sales agreement or if the buyer breaks down the sale during the transfer before it completes, then the seller has the rights to take their own legal action against the buyer to get them to fulfill the contract. If this happens the transfer agent will manually unlock the buyers information so its available to the seller should they decide to take this action. If you have a situation like this and the buyers info is not showing then you just have to post a message to the transfer agent asking them to unlock the buyer info and they will do that for you.

Once again, if you wish to speak with me personally on any concerns you have, I will do my best to help you, you can contact me directly on my personal number +49-221-34030-152.

All the best

Chris

You can hide seller info, and show buyer info, then this would be more than enough. I expect the same from other marketplaces. (Epik is good in this sense, but stats are missing there, plus, they have no partners.)

By flipping I mean, selling domains owned by someone else. Sometimes it can be totally ethical: for example my domain has BIN price somewhere, and people go to Godaddy and make an offer, and that offer may be more than my BIN price elsewhere, and GD may buy it instead of negotiating with me and the buyer separately,... because otherwise they can miss a sale, and have to spend more time, and I was already willing to sell for that price whoever the actual buyer is, and this is public info.

What is the problem (in make offer case): Maybe there are 10 flippers who are connected to registrars, and when there are leads from big companies, they start lowballing, ignore reasonable counteroffers, and often not pay once a deal is made; because they are not actual buyers and there may be 10 fold gap between buying and selling price. How can I know if a new offer comes from these people or not. If we are given more info about buyers we can know what to do to maximize profit. And this way marketplaces where we sell domains also make more money. Why not do it: doesn't make any sense. Would an enduser be worried because his identity is known to the buyer (at least partially): no.

But if I become a buyer at Sedo, I would enjoy this situation, and not complain about it.
Someone claimed I'm wellknown sedohater, I said no. I'm just making a suggestion , I critisize others as well.

Why hide buyer info: Otherwise seller would try to bypass Sedo and complete sale elsewhere? I don't need full info. Something to decide what type of person I'm negotiating with may be enough. Company or not. Ip number. part of his email.
Quite often someone makes an offer, and Sedo closes his account: why, I don't know. No explanation given. Maybe many others deserve the same thing.

Sedo said:

Sedo does not show all sellers data publicly during negotiations, all that can be seen is the country of origin and the year since they have been active on Sedo

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Sedo should stop showing country of seller publicly. It's a racist behavior and disrespectful to privacy of seller. There is no another marketplace other than Sedo doing it.

topdom said:

You can hide seller info, and show buyer info, then this would be more than enough. I expect the same from other marketplaces. (Epik is good in this sense, but stats are missing there, plus, they have no partners.)

By flipping I mean, selling domains owned by someone else. Sometimes it can be totally ethical: for example my domain has BIN price somewhere, and people go to Godaddy and make an offer, and that offer may be more than my BIN price elsewhere, and GD may buy it instead of negotiating with me and the buyer separately,... because otherwise they can miss a sale, and have to spend more time, and I was already willing to sell for that price whoever the actual buyer is, and this is public info.

What is the problem (in make offer case): Maybe there are 10 flippers who are connected to registrars, and when there are leads from big companies, they start lowballing, ignore reasonable counteroffers, and often not pay once a deal is made; because they are not actual buyers and there may be 10 fold gap between buying and selling price. How can I know if a new offer comes from these people or not. If we are given more info about buyers we can know what to do to maximize profit. And this way marketplaces where we sell domains also make more money. Why not do it: doesn't make any sense. Would an enduser be worried because his identity is known to the buyer (at least partially): no.

But if I become a buyer at Sedo, I would enjoy this situation, and not complain about it.
Someone claimed I'm wellknown sedohater, I said no. I'm just making a suggestion , I critisize others as well.

Why hide buyer info: Otherwise seller would try to bypass Sedo and complete sale elsewhere? I don't need full info. Something to decide what type of person I'm negotiating with may be enough. Company or not. Ip number. part of his email.
Quite often someone makes an offer, and Sedo closes his account: why, I don't know. No explanation given. Maybe many others deserve the same thing.

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The ideal marketplace is the one that keeps seller and buyer info strictly private even after the transfer is completed. I know only one marketplace doing it correctly: namesilo. There may be others which I don't know. So I disagree with you on asking for personal info of buyers, while agreeing on most of your other inputs.

For a healthy working and profitable marketplace, personal info of all members such as names, addresses, phone numbers, email address, etc. must be kept strictly private by the marketplace. This is one of the function marketplace. Otherwise there is less need for a marketplace. Every buyer can contact a seller via public whois, website, etc, and can try to buy directly without a third party. It's not that difficult.

poweredbyme said:

The ideal marketplace is the one that keeps seller and buyer info strictly private even after the transfer is completed. I know only one marketplace doing it correctly: namesilo. There may be others which I don't know. So I disagree with you on asking for personal info of buyers, while agreeing on most of your other inputs.

For a healthy working and profitable marketplace, personal info of all members such as names, addresses, phone numbers, email address, etc. must be kept strictly private by the marketplace. This is one of the function marketplace. Otherwise there is less need for a marketplace. Every buyer can contact a seller via public whois, website, etc, and can try to buy directly without a third party. It's not that difficult.

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If our purpose is maximizing selling price, we need to know something about the buyer. For example I may own something like bogo.com , which I may be willing to sell for 10K, but 1M can also be possible. If I know the buyer is a real enduser, I may sell, if he is a flipper, I would know there is a real buyer who may pay 6 figures soon (before I die), and I would wait... (But giving full data of the buyer may not be good for the marketplace either because otherwise we may contact the buyer outside that marketplace and complete the sale elsewhere).

We own the domain, so we have ability and right to track buyer's IP. If we are parking at a marketplace, that marketplace should show us bidders' IPs. Marketplaces can also show domain part of bidders' email, or a little bit less, so we would know if it is gmail, or, yahoo, or godaddy, or a real company name.

Statistically most buyers at Sedo are lowballing flippers (and they may be using fake contact data, except email, so they can get invoice..), and there must be a way to stop this. Instead of showing buyer's data, they can require refundable 10 usd payment (refundable unless they cheat).

What I suggest is good for Sedo as well. If flipper sells for 10K, but I sell for 100, then I get 90 (minus 80 for other fees), and Sedo gets 10, and flipper gets 9900. But if I sell directly to the enduser via Sedo, then Sedo gets 1000 at least. Why not do this, would endusers be scared because their info is shown, not at all. Only flippers and investors (domainers) care about it.

topdom said:

If our purpose is maximizing selling price, we need to know something about the buyer. For example I may own something like bogo.com , which I may be willing to sell for 10K, but 1M can also be possible. If I know the buyer is a real enduser, I may sell, if he is a flipper, I would know there is a real buyer who may pay 6 figures soon (before I die), and I would wait... (But giving full data of the buyer may not be good for the marketplace either because otherwise we may contact the buyer outside that marketplace and complete the sale elsewhere).

We own the domain, so we have ability and right to track buyer's IP. If we are parking at a marketplace, that marketplace should show us bidders' IPs. Marketplaces can also show domain part of bidders' email, or a little bit less, so we would know if it is gmail, or, yahoo, or godaddy, or a real company name.

Statistically most buyers at Sedo are lowballing flippers (and they may be using fake contact data, except email, so they can get invoice..), and there must be a way to stop this. Instead of showing buyer's data, they can require refundable 10 usd payment (refundable unless they cheat).

What I suggest is good for Sedo as well. If flipper sells for 10K, but I sell for 100, then I get 90 (minus 80 for other fees), and Sedo gets 10, and flipper gets 9900. But if I sell directly to the enduser via Sedo, then Sedo gets 1000 at least. Why not do this, would endusers be scared because their info is shown, not at all. Only flippers and investors (domainers) care about it.

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But that's like eating your cake and having it. You want to be entitled to buyers' info but you don't want buyers to be entitled to sellers' info? And I am saying this as a seller who understands that some buyers' info will put me in a better negotiating position.

Like @poweredbyme said, in an ideal situation, no one's private info should be displayed at a marketplace in the first place. If you want that data, then create your own landing page.

poweredbyme said:

There is no another marketplace other than Sedo doing it.

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Daaz does this also. I do think it’s an unnecessary bit of data that can hurt some sellers due to outdated connotations so both should remove it

However flipping is legit. You should only sell at a price you want, doesn’t matter who the buyer is

griff said:

Daaz does this also. I do think it’s an unnecessary bit of data that can hurt some sellers due to outdated connotations so both should remove it

However flipping is legit. You should only sell at a price you want, doesn’t matter who the buyer is

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Flipping is legit.. if we mean legal, probably yes, ..

If there is an abuse of power, then flipping would be unethical. It can be worse than shillbidding. For example let's say I caught a domain with my own dropcathcer, and then started an auction, and shillbid as a fake user to make sure selling price is high enough. It is unethical, yes, but it is not very unethical, because selling price can remain very low, and I could keep the domain for myself from the beginning.

..I mean it is not as unethical as this situation: a big registrar getting a lead from a very big company, and instead of informing me, lowball at Sedo to secure a very low buying price, while at the same time free to shoot to the moon at the other end. Because, if such things happen all the time, either I as a seller, can only sell for very low prices, or never be able to sell...if I'm victim to such scenario, who can I blame, can I blame the flipper, no because I agreed to sell, or the bidder doesn't have to place a reasonable bid.

Let's say I'm working somewhere, which is normally a safe place, because the door is closed, but the person who controls the door keeps it open , and someone enters and shoot me, who am I supposed to blame. Saying, don't sell low then, is like saying, protect yourself by wearing bulletproof stuff.

Sedo-helps-flippers

topdom said:

We are "scammed" via sales to flippers all the time,

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Hi

why create these senseless posts about sedo
because, if one actually reads the title, then the claim, is contradictory.

since, "flipping" is domain slang for reselling a domain name in a short period of time
and...
since domainers buy and resell domain names
then
sedo would be helping us.

therefore, your claim has no merit.

case dismissed!

puff, puff...ahhh

imo....

topdom said:

..I mean it is not as unethical as this situation: a big registrar getting a lead from a very big company, and instead of informing me, lowball at Sedo to secure a very low buying price, while at the same time free to shoot to the moon at the other end. Because, if such things happen all the time, either I as a seller, can only sell for very low prices, or never be able to sell...if I'm victim to such scenario, who can I blame, can I blame the flipper, no because I agreed to sell, or the bidder doesn't have to place a reasonable bid.

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I don't think that having bidder/buyer personal info is a solution for that scenario. As a seller you have 2 options;
1- set a price
2- not to set any price

If you are unsure on the price, don't set any price, even minimum offer. Nothing can provide better protection than this method.

If you are sure on how much you want for your domain, then set that price and stick to that price. For me, if someone paid what I want for my domain, I really don't want to know who paid. Because I know who paid and who bought are NOT the same person/entity in most cases. Please think about this for a minute. Most business owners don't know how to buy a domain, what to do with a domain. They pay someone who knows these. As a domain seller, in most cases you can never know who is the buyer. Period. So buyer info is entirely useless.

Buyer/bidder/offerer info, as well as seller info have no practical use in making more/less profit. All you have to is to make good pricing. It's a skill which can be improved over the time after setting too many bad prices. If you are not good at pricing and are not willing to take risk of selling for so low, then don't set any price, in other words let your buyer sets the price of your domain. I don't recommend it unless you are an occasional domain seller. If you have many domains for sale, you have to learn how to set good prices. You will set many wrong prices in the beginning. But eventually you will learn how to do it correctly. Let your learning curve begin now. Set price. Then change. Then change again, Do it on a regular basis, say quarterly, monthly or yearly. You will eventually find the correct price that works.

There must be a price. If you don't set any price or if you set prices incorrectly then you accept someone else will do it correctly for you. If you always set prices lower, then you have no right to blame others, including big registrars. If you always overpice you can't blame others for not making any sales. You should blame yourself for not knowing pricing. Sellers have to learn how to price their domains.

Why do hugedomains, domainmarket, buydomains, sell at their own site, and require personal info before showing the price, instead of selling at AN or Sedo...It makes a difference whether I know all domains I sold for 100 were sold to the same person, or not.
I sold a .biz domain for a strange low price. And later got offer for another .biz domain in the exact same strange amount. So it looks like buyers were the same, and he knows me and I don't know him. He thinks he can buy domains from me for cheap, but I have no idea who the hell he is. Totally unfair, and also bad for Sedo (unless sedo itself is a flipper).

Maybe the solution is, if we want to park at Sedo, park inside a frame, and outside that frame track visits. Or make a redirect and track before redirect. Why do we park at places like Sedo: to be able to sell fast and for good price. But all marketplaces (at least big ones) seem to be trying to prevent good sales (on seller side)....

Plus , buyers "buy" and don't pay at Sedo, and get away with it, and meanwhile they learn our name and address. It is blocked by gdpr, but enabled by Sedo. Our address is real, theirs is fake, so if we learn their info it doesn't help.
I'm not a Sedo hater but let me mention other mistakes of Sedo. There is an unknown 40 USD additional fee for wire transfer (maybe not for everyone, so if the cost is 18 you will pay 58 (if you ask me, where that 40 comes from,.. I'm not saying it is not legitimate,..previously minimum commission was 60 , now, it is 20, the difference: 40, so maybe the minimum commission is still 60 in case of wire) (not a big deal..)*), contact form on their web site doesn't work, and more importantly, they randomly remove generic domains because of trademarks, or unexplainable 3rd party conflicts. and remove domains which have been verified and didn't drop or change hands because of not being able to verify them.

All marketplaces suck in one or more ways, bigger ones do more. Dan only works with newest browsers. AN is a big blackbox, no hints given, no communication. AN and GD pretend to be different companies, and this hurts sellers, because endusers go to GD, domainers go to AN,
so price requests are probaly not done by actual endusers, and endusers probably won't be informed instantly when prices are set.

But once payment is made, all work almost perfectly..edit: Noone steals money this way, only Paypal does (by closing accounts, making transfer impossible, and ignoring messages).

edit:* if sales are combined before payment, then this amount domain drops per domain, so it is not a hidden commission and it might be needed for some processing. But it is something which makes wire cost look fat.

I made my first sales via Sedo 10-15 years ago and paid a wire fee, probably less than $40.

Sedo seems to be a middleman on the paper. But any middleman can be a flipper if being a flipper is more profitable. We, as members of those platforms don't have any control over them. Hence we can't prove even if they are really flipping. Talking without proofs is a waste of time. Even if you have proofs, I don't get how those proofs will help sellers or the whole industry in general.

I agree all marketplaces suck. There maybe good demand for a better marketplace. I think it's possible with a blockchain trustless system. If such a marketpace is developed I will be one of the first users. Current marketplaces use traditional financial and escrow system. Their costs are high and they don't operate efficiently.