discuss Science & Technology news & discussion

Sutruk said:

About the wikipedia article...
Really, I don't get how did they come to this point. In fact, every point about space-time, the immense space distances, the immense amount of stars, the immense time, favours the fact that would be just very improbable, near impossible, to any extraterrestrial civilization to be able or even to want to reach our planet. Why should they choose our Solar System planet, between the 100 billion stars on the Milky Way? Supposing they have that amazing technology to make interestellar travels...

• However, there is no convincing evidence that this has happened.[8]

I agree on this one

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That is, assuming these extraterrestrial beings have similar carbon-based corporeal structures to humans. What if they were 'light beings' (ie. for simplicity, ghosts) or comprised of a chemical constituency of different 'exotic' elements? Wouldn't that help overcome the physics of Relativity and Space/Time travel?

Cannuck said:

That is, assuming these extraterrestrial beings have similar carbon-based corporeal structures to humans. What if they were 'light beings' (ie. for simplicity, ghosts) or comprised of a chemical constituency of different 'exotic' elements? Wouldn't that help overcome the physics of Relativity and Space/Time travel?

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An immortal immaterial being traveling millions of light years overcoming the physics of Relativity, maybe using a 4th or 5th dimension to reach us and take a peek of what's going on on our blue planet... mmm.. that sounds like a sci-fi movie, but who knows!

The more intelligent is the civilization, the more near to crush their own environment and habitat, as we are just seeing right now on our planet.
So, the difficult and crucial step for an intelligent civilization, is to reach an advanced technology to make interstellar travels, before crushing its own habitat.

Sutruk said:

About the wikipedia article, these would be my answers to the Paradox, if there's any paradox:

• There are billions of stars in the Milky Way similar to the Sun.[3][4]

Right!

• With high probability, some of these stars have Earth-like planets.[5]

Right!

• Many of these stars, and hence their planets, are much older than the Sun.[6][7] If the Earth is typical, some may have developed intelligent life long ago.

Right!

• Some of these civilizations may have developed interstellar travel, a step humans are investigating now.

That is assuming too much, in my opinion. One thing is having life, even "intelligent" life, and another thing is "developing interstellar travel" technology.

• Even at the slow pace of currently envisioned interstellar travel, the Milky Way galaxy could be completely traversed in a few million years.[8]

Wow, so easy to do it, just a few million years! From when aliens see there's life on our planet, to when they arrive to planet Earth, humans very likely would be already disapeared a few millions years ago.

• And since many of the stars similar to the Sun are billions of years older, the Earth should have already been visited by extraterrestrial civilizations, or at least their probes.[9]

Really, I don't get how did they come to this point. In fact, every point about space-time, the immense space distances, the immense amount of stars, the immense time, favours the fact that would be just very improbable, near impossible, to any extraterrestrial civilization to be able or even to want to reach our planet. Why should they choose our Solar System planet, between the 100 billion stars on the Milky Way? Supposing they have that amazing technology to make interstellar travels...

• However, there is no convincing evidence that this has happened.[8]

I agree on this one

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The Fermi Paradox is basically an argument against the rather optimistic Drake equation, but takes it further. The Fermi Paradox actually came first...

Interesting academic concepts, but way too many assumptions in both arguments IMO.

I'm still not convinced that there is any intelligent life out there.

Cannuck said:

Any Cryptologists in the house? “The Most Mysterious Manuscript in the World.”

Scientific study and public interest in medieval Voynich text claims to be the manuscript of the thirteenth-century English Franciscan scientist and alchemist Roger Bacon.

Four centuries of attempts to decode, decipher, or translate the text have all ended in bafflement. The finest cryptological minds of the twentieth century and sustained computer analysis alike have drawn a blank; the text refuses to yield meaning. Attempts to find parallels to the text in cabbalistical, hermetic, or alchemical code systems have all thrown up more disparities than resemblances. What if the book’s mysteries are in fact pure mystification that never had any real meaning?

Interesting read, an alchemist trick I say.

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/secret-knowledge-or-a-hoax?

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I know that Newton and others of his leaning who were dabbling in the black-arts used their own 'codes' to avoid trouble with the church.

My guess is that this was produced by a monk who was practicing his artwork and layout, and the indecipherable text was a placeholder - basically todays Lorem Ipsum.

A really interesting read.

Sutruk said:

An immortal immaterial being traveling millions of light years overcoming the physics of Relativity, maybe using a 4th or 5th dimension to reach us and take a peek of what's going on on our blue planet... mmm.. that sounds like a sci-fi movie, but who knows!

Click to expand...

Remember, movies are just single frames or pictures that move optically faster than our eyes can see or our brain can distinguish. They wouldn't have to be immortal if their mode of transport bent the time continuum, lol.

Sutruk said:

The more intelligent is the civilization, the more near to crush their own environment and habitat, as we are just seeing right now on our planet.
So, the difficult and crucial step for an intelligent civilization, is to reach an advanced technology to make interstellar travels, before crushing its own habitat.

Click to expand...

I can't agree regarding the word "intelligent", advanced or indulgent is perhaps the more appropriate descriptor. I have heard some ancient stories from various tribes regarding the Sky people, as well as more recent accounts of space travel while practicing the Sun Dance.

Cannuck said:

I can't agree regarding the word "intelligent", advanced or indulgent is perhaps the more appropriate descriptor. I have heard some ancient stories from various tribes regarding the Sky people, as well as more recent accounts of space travel while practicing the Sun Dance.

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I just cannot help myself - I love quoting Douglas Adams in serious philosophical and scientific debates

“... on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much - the wheel, New York, wars and so on - whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man - for precisely the same reasons.”

― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Cannuck said:

I can't agree regarding the word "intelligent", advanced or indulgent is perhaps the more appropriate descriptor. I have heard some ancient stories from various tribes regarding the Sky people, as well as more recent accounts of space travel while practicing the Sun Dance.

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Yes, I noticed the mistake by using "intelligent", clearly not the correct one.
I should have said... "technologically advanced civilizations", but silly enough to destroy their own habitat.

Cannuck said:

They wouldn't have to be immortal if their mode of transport bent the time continuum, lol.

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"Immortal" sounds a bit sci-fi... but just by the way we are playing with genes, clones and other health advances, I see it more probable (increasing our lifetime, by clones or who knows, stopping the aging clock at some point?), than beating the space long distances by bending the time continuum or folding the space-time, or building an almost light-speed spaceship.

Sutruk said:

"Immortal" sounds a bit sci-fi... but just by the way we are playing with genes, clones and other health advances, I see it more probable (increasing our lifetime, by clones or who knows, stopping the aging clock at some point?), than beating the space long distances by bending the time continuum or folding the space-time, or building an almost light-speed spaceship.

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You have raised a point that I had not considered - the gene research into ageing.

It will be a long and boring trip, but we may actually get there in the end.

This is Asimov and Herbert's fantasy, where humans travel and populate vast distances in the galaxy, and are reunited many centuries later.

The death of our vessel does not mean the end (if you have taken the right path(s)...maybe). A little food for thought...

The Physics of Death (and What Happens to Your Energy When You Die)
"When we die, our energy doesn't die with us."

"But what if instead of looking at death from a biological perspective, we examine it from a physics standpoint? More specifically, let’s look at how our energy is redistributed after we die."

https://futurism.com/the-physics-of-death

During the past 6 months or so, people have had to examine their mortality more often than I can recall in my lifetime. I've even prepared my own will in the event of untimely death. That's not to say we won't come out of this alive, as I would rather consider my/our options for the future and focus on something more positive. What I find interesting, however, is denial:

The Science of Why We Don’t Believe Science

When people grow polarized over a body of evidence, or a resolvable matter of fact, the cause may be some form of biased reasoning, but they could also be receiving skewed information to begin with—or a complicated combination of both.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/04/denial-science-chris-mooney/

Sutruk said:

Yes, I noticed the mistake by using "intelligent", clearly not the correct one.
I should have said... "technologically advanced civilizations", but silly enough to destroy their own habitat.

Click to expand...

Some further thoughts on intelligence:

The Intelligence Trap
http://www.srojak.com/arcade/intrap.shtml#buyit

Interesting thread. Wish I had more time for it.

Cannuck said:

... That's not to say we won't come out of this alive...

The Science of Why We Don’t Believe Science

When people grow polarized over a body of evidence, or a resolvable matter of fact, the cause may be some form of biased reasoning, but they could also be receiving skewed information to begin with—or a complicated combination of both.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/04/denial-science-chris-mooney/

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@Cannuck - I realise I am quoting you out of context here, so allow me first to apologise before I carry on...

We won't get out of this alive as there are only two certainties in life - death and taxes - to quote Benjamin Franklin

Now, to the skewed information studies...

There are scientists who publish questionable studies before they are peer-reviewed within their community. News media goes nuts, social media speculates, and then the predictions or studies are shown to be false.

One example I clearly remember came from the OPERA team and their study suggesting that neutrinos travel faster than light in 2011. I'm no particle scientists/theorist, but it was clear to many at the time that this broke the established rules of Einstein's special relativity.

Unfortunately these types of incidents only serve to undermine peoples trust in science and the media.

Edit:
I've edited out my paragraph about Harold Camping, the 'rapture' preacher who died after his prophecy failed to materialise because, although the Mother Jones article talks specifically about failed cult and religious predictions, I think I was going off-topic on a science and technology thread.

Cal2 said:

Some further thoughts on intelligence:

The Intelligence Trap
http://www.srojak.com/arcade/intrap.shtml#buyit

Interesting thread. Wish I had more time for it.

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Is this a trick intelligence test?
I don't wish to click on a link that includes '#buyit' in the URL

125-Year Study of Chess Matches Suggests We Don't Peak at The Game Until Our 30s

Before a player's early 20s, performance on the chessboard appears to increase rapidly. Skill then appears to reach a plateau around 35 years of age, peak at age 40, and begin to steadily decline after age 45

https://www.sciencealert.com/scient...chess-games-to-find-the-age-when-we-play-best

Too much science for my too small brain!

Keep it going! Interesting articles.

koolishman said:

Too much science for my too small brain!

Keep it going! Interesting articles.

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Scientists develop 'mini-brains' to help robots recognize pain and to self-repair
Using a brain-inspired approach, scientists from Nanyang Technological University, Singapore (NTU Singapore) have developed a way for robots to have the artificial intelligence (AI) to recognise pain and to self-repair when damaged.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201015101812.htm

CraigD said:

Scientists develop 'mini-brains' to help robots recognize pain and to self-repair
Using a brain-inspired approach, scientists from Nanyang Technological University, Singapore (NTU Singapore) have developed a way for robots to have the artificial intelligence (AI) to recognise pain and to self-repair when damaged.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201015101812.htm

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Mister Funsky said:

The death of our vessel does not mean the end (if you have taken the right path(s)...maybe). A little food for thought...

The Physics of Death (and What Happens to Your Energy When You Die)
"When we die, our energy doesn't die with us."

"But what if instead of looking at death from a biological perspective, we examine it from a physics standpoint? More specifically, let’s look at how our energy is redistributed after we die."

https://futurism.com/the-physics-of-death

Click to expand...

I don't believe the 21-grams theory has ever been replicated (quite logically), but the other studies are interesting.

Here's a BBC article titled What happens to our bodies after we die
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20150508-what-happens-after-we-die

The BepiColombo Probe Just Took a Ridiculously Close Video of Venus as It Flew By

Two years after it left Earth, Mercury probe BepiColombo has completed the first of its first flybys of Venus. The manoeuvre is designed to give the spacecraft a boost on its journey - but it's also too good an opportunity to pass up for a little science.

https://www.sciencealert.com/bepico...nus-as-it-flew-by-in-its-first-gravity-assist

More information:

BepiColombo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BepiColombo

https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/spacecraft/display.action?id=BEPICLMBO

Most plastic recycling produces low-value materials – but we’ve found a way to turn a common plastic into high-value molecules

In the six decades that plastic has been manufactured for commercial uses, more than 8.3 billion metric tons have been produced... Most of them decompose extremely slowly in the environment... I am a chemist with experience in designing processes for making plastics... I wondered if we could turn plastic waste into something more valuable to keep it out of landfills and the natural environment.

https://theconversation.com/most-pl...mmon-plastic-into-high-value-molecules-148506

Quantum Time Twist Offers a Way to Create Schrödinger’s Clock

Physicists describe a way to merge quantum theory with Einstein’s special theory of relativity - and even a method to test it experimentally.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/...t-offers-a-way-to-create-schroedingers-clock/

A Crash Course In Particle Physics

Professor Brian Cox of the University of Manchester presents an educational walk, through the fundamentals of Particle Physics.

After reading all these, I wanted to clear my head.

But, damn!

Pump down the volume: Study finds noise-cancelling formula

Noisy, open-plan offices full of workers hunched over desks while wearing noise canceling headphones could soon be a thing of the past... "This is a way of creating a quieter space, without the need for everyone to keep their headphones on."

https://phys.org/news/2020-10-volume-noise-cancelling-formula.html