discuss Lesson Learnt: What not to do during negotiation

abstractdomainer · Jul 26, 2020

I was in the negotiation process of a domain name that the buyer had shown interest in.
I had outbound it with a tag of $249 and the buyer had said I'll pay $175. We agreed on that since I knew that if the buyer doesn't buy this today, I might end up not selling it at all.

So I took whatever their offer was. Then, the buyer said how to go about the transaction.
I explained how to make the payment via PayPal, then share the registrar email address and the domain will be pushed.

No response for the next 6 hours. It was morning in their time zone. So I dropped another email. No response for the next 12 hours.
Another mail about the payment or something. No response.
I waited for a day. No response yet.
So I said that I received another offer. I haven't opened dialogue yet. Awaiting your response before discussing it with the other party. Will wait for another 12 hours before responding to them and starting to negotiate.

I was bluffing. But it didn't work.
I guess the buyer put me on mute/spam for whatever reasons. Didn't receive any response from the buyer for another 7 days. I believe the deal is off.

Here are some of the things I could think of:

1) I emailed too often - 3 emails with a day and a half.
2) I emailed too quickly to their response (While they replied once in 2 days, I replied within 20 minutes). May have made me seem desperate.
3) I played the another offer card - May have pissed off the buyer that I am playing this buy it or leave it card.
4) You pay first - Many buyer feel uncomfortable about paying first. I think some of them may even think of this as a scam when you ask them to pay first.

I think the first 3 are the major faults of mine here. It showed that I am desperate. Never do that! Even after the deal. I think that's why people say, never accept the first offer (analogy). It makes the buyer seem like a fool. He isn't ready for that, by human nature.

Could you spot more errors here?

jim h · Jul 29, 2020

If you are a seller, don't insist on an unreasonably high price. If you are a buyer, you should consider the real value of the domain name, instead of wasting time with a significantly lower quotation.

April004 · Jul 29, 2020

If a buyer is interested to pay anywhere above $100 that means he is seriously looking to acquire some domain or the other! I would reply them after 24 hours and would use escrow service (If I'm totally stranger to them).

lock · Jul 29, 2020

He feels you will go lower longer he waits since mail bombing. I suspect you will always improve on outbound and even if a bin in mind why not try approach for an interest or an offer.

NewDayBrand · Jul 29, 2020

Guys what do you think about doing outbound by calling at the phone? Without sending an email. And if my telephone number is outside usa and the prospect is in usa? Would he feel uncomfortable?
Is calling at the phone may or may not add credibility? In your opinion?

topdom · Jul 29, 2020

Calling is bad idea, unless you are a very serious buyer who can't reach the seller by email. If you are a seller, no-no, it may even be illegal.

7363824 · Jul 29, 2020

topdom said:
...it may even be illegal.

Robo calls absolutely illegal at least in the US, unless you have a pre-existing business relationship. Manual calls, I'm not sure any country makes that illegal but I'm no lawyer so take that for what its worth....

Personally though If I don't recognize the number I don't answer. If they leave a VM trying to sell something I'll delete it without even listening to the whole thing. And if the calls become repeated I'll block the number all together.

Similar thing with email though, you send me an unsolicited email trying to sell me something I'll gladly hit the report as spam, if it even made it though to my inbox that is. But that's just me, I guess some people are able to get though and make deals...

DT13 · Jul 29, 2020

Joe Nichols said:
This is one of the biggest falsehoods that I've seen domainers spread around on the forum. I invite someone (anyone!) to tell a personal story of disaster that has happened to them in this situation.

Domainers conducting outbound need to know that demanding payment before sending the name is absolutely fishy, and borderline unprofessional.

You are the one soliciting.

You are a total stranger.

Buying domains is often an unfamiliar and rare transaction for buyers when you're doing outbound.

This means that you are the one who needs to be prepared to show trust first. Online scams are real and they happen often. Buyers have every reason to be suspicious of you, while you have absolutely no reason to be suspicious of them.

They're professionals running a business. You be a professional too and show some good faith by offering to send the name first. They will pay.

People/businesses who give you stuff before you pay:

Restaurants

Contractors

Hair stylists

Taxi drivers

Landscapers

Babysitters

Tailors

Nail salons

I do it often with amounts below 1k and never had any problems with it. Usually they are pleased to be able to do business in good faith.

jim h · Jul 30, 2020

Even if the other side's request is too much, don't be impatient. Smile and be nice.

frank-germany · Jul 30, 2020

Joe Nichols said:
This is one of the biggest falsehoods that I've seen domainers spread around on the forum. I invite someone (anyone!) to tell a personal story of disaster that has happened to them in this situation.

yeah, I love to hear that, too

frank-germany · Jul 30, 2020

topdom said:
If it was inbound, maybe "you pay first and then I push" could work, .

sure thats default
it works

The Durfer · Jul 30, 2020

Dont:

The Durfer · Jul 31, 2020

also dont do the opposite now and grovel at his feet for $50. good luck.

stevo · Jul 31, 2020

Bob Hawkes said:
I agree !00% and was surprised that more did not comment on this aspect of the OP.

In my mind it is never right to lie or deceive. Let's say you were buying a house, would you like it if the real estate agent said there is already a $425,000 offer when there is not one? Pretty sure it is against real estate ethical guidelines. You might say only a few $$$ here so it is a different situation. But to me ethically it is not the $$$ involved but what is right or wrong. Don't bluff with false information.

All is not fair in love and domaining!

Bob

I must agree with Bob. Always try to be truthful, it will serve you well in the long run. Like I always told my kids,
It is hard to remember what the lie that you told was, but there is only one version of the truth. And it never changes. If you are caught in a lie, your reputation could suffer. Not a small thing ( Your reputation).
I have notified potential buyers that I was intending to solicit this name for some time and I appreciate the reminder, and if they are no longer interested...... This statement by me is absolutely true with 99% of my domains.
I recently had a lowball offer and stated the price that I expected. They came up a little and I then informed them that the price that I quoted them was bare minimum and that I believed the name was worth "bare minimum+". If they had no interest at that price, I would invest some time finding out how much more it could be sold for. I was content at the price that I quoted and they were willing to pay it. I have come to the conclusion that going into every offer made for one of your domains, you should have a number That you are willing to accept. Anything more negotiated is a bonus. I Have lost sales due to asking for my price, but every name and situation is different.

WatchDogue · Jul 31, 2020

When I did negotiations via email I always remembered to keep a "respectful distance" between my to / from emails with a likely buyer.

That is, I practiced the fine art of patience, never appearing too eager to sell a name or willing negotiate a steep price drop.

Was always respectful in my emails ( not always easy ) and patient in responding, always considering all scenarios that could be at play in a negotiation.

Whats' the old saying - something like " He who blinks first looses ".

All those emails may have been a " blink ".

Learn from what errors you know you made and don't do 'em again.

I never did outbound, inbound only, which assuredly gave me the upper hand in negotiations.

These days and for the past several years I am 90 - 95% " BIN only.

Email negotiations, for domains or any product or service, is an art to be learned.

lock · Jul 31, 2020

X7 Ryan said:
Robo calls absolutely illegal at least in the US, unless you have a pre-existing business relationship. Manual calls, I'm not sure any country makes that illegal but I'm no lawyer so take that for what its worth....

Personally though If I don't recognize the number I don't answer. If they leave a VM trying to sell something I'll delete it without even listening to the whole thing. And if the calls become repeated I'll block the number all together.

Similar thing with email though, you send me an unsolicited email trying to sell me something I'll gladly hit the report as spam, if it even made it though to my inbox that is. But that's just me, I guess some people are able to get though and make deals...

You need the AT-5000 endorsed by Homer.

rajdomains · Jul 31, 2020

Trust could be one of the main reasons for an unsuccessful transaction.
You lowered your price from 250 to 175 without a counteroffer, so that could also be a reason.

Secondly always offer buyer to make payment via any escrow service, Epik escrow, dan, or other and Include the escrow fees in your price.

All the best

Michael Norris · Aug 1, 2020

I would hold steady with the buy now price. allow them a week or two to respond with the price given and if they don't oh well... sometimes people aren't interested anymore for whatever reasons.... maybe they found another domain or they need management's approval for spending.

abstractdomainer · Aug 1, 2020

biggie said:
Hi

yeah, outspamming

when you send solicitations, then all of what you experienced can happen

for incoming, it's less mess, than what you had to deal with

those who contact you, expect to pay first
therefore, they already put some trust in you, simply because you have what they want.... and they want to get it in their possession
additionally, leverage is on your side, as you're the one calling the shots on price and how/where payments will be made.

imo...

SO you consider any outbound attempts as spams?
If a broker takes a 6 figure domain and reaches out to 20 leads who may find value in the domain, are they spamming too?

Anybody making a sale attempt by getting in touch with a potential lead is a spam?

April004 said:
If a buyer is interested to pay anywhere above $100 that means he is seriously looking to acquire some domain or the other! I would reply them after 24 hours and would use escrow service (If I'm totally stranger to them).

Ya. I get it. The $100 is subjective and depends form buyer to buyer and domain names.

NewDayBrand said:
Guys what do you think about doing outbound by calling at the phone? Without sending an email. And if my telephone number is outside usa and the prospect is in usa? Would he feel uncomfortable?
Is calling at the phone may or may not add credibility? In your opinion?

Bad idea. I tried like 20 times and didn't work.
however, I have heard stories of people closing multiple sales over phone.

abstractdomainer · Aug 1, 2020

stevo said:
I must agree with Bob. Always try to be truthful, it will serve you well in the long run. Like I always told my kids,
It is hard to remember what the lie that you told was, but there is only one version of the truth. And it never changes. If you are caught in a lie, your reputation could suffer. Not a small thing ( Your reputation).
I have notified potential buyers that I was intending to solicit this name for some time and I appreciate the reminder, and if they are no longer interested...... This statement by me is absolutely true with 99% of my domains.
I recently had a lowball offer and stated the price that I expected. They came up a little and I then informed them that the price that I quoted them was bare minimum and that I believed the name was worth "bare minimum+". If they had no interest at that price, I would invest some time finding out how much more it could be sold for. I was content at the price that I quoted and they were willing to pay it. I have come to the conclusion that going into every offer made for one of your domains, you should have a number That you are willing to accept. Anything more negotiated is a bonus. I Have lost sales due to asking for my price, but every name and situation is different.

What about the deal that did not go through? You may not remember that. This may be a selective bias.

branding · Aug 1, 2020

abstractdomainer said:
SO you consider any outbound attempts as spams?
If a broker takes a 6 figure domain and reaches out to 20 leads who may find value in the domain, are they spamming too?

Anybody making a sale attempt by getting in touch with a potential lead is a spam?

Define your definition of a lead. I bet it's way different from what a (good) broker would consider to be a lead.

karmaco · Aug 1, 2020

Joe Nichols said:
This is one of the biggest falsehoods that I've seen domainers spread around on the forum. I invite someone (anyone!) to tell a personal story of disaster that has happened to them in this situation.

Domainers conducting outbound need to know that demanding payment before sending the name is absolutely fishy, and borderline unprofessional.

You are the one soliciting.

You are a total stranger.

Buying domains is often an unfamiliar and rare transaction for buyers when you're doing outbound.

This means that you are the one who needs to be prepared to show trust first. Online scams are real and they happen often. Buyers have every reason to be suspicious of you, while you have absolutely no reason to be suspicious of them.

They're professionals running a business. You be a professional too and show some good faith by offering to send the name first. They will pay.

People/businesses who give you stuff before you pay:

Restaurants

Contractors

Hair stylists

Taxi drivers

Landscapers

Babysitters

Tailors

Nail salons

Actually there have been several cases reported here publicly
just in the time I have been here. One that comes to mind was a story told by Domain Monk. He pushed and did not get paid.

Just because you are comfortable doing that doesn’t mean everyone should be. And if I don’t pay at a restaurant or barber shop -they can call the cops on me. Apples and oranges. Physical world versus cyber world.

You push that name first you have zero recourse should you not get paid. Advising people to do so is almost reckless. I bet you didn’t push first on that big sale you had a few months back.

Sheesh there are people here who demand a newbie push first before payment in the sales section. Each person should do as they see fit.

Joe N · Aug 1, 2020

karmaco said:
Actually there have been several cases reported here publicly
just in the time I have been here. One that comes to mind was a story told by Domain Monk. He pushed and did not get paid.

Just because you are comfortable doing that doesn’t mean everyone should be. And if I don’t pay at a restaurant or barber shop -they can call the cops on me. Apples and oranges. Physical world versus cyber world.

You push that name first you have zero recourse should you not get paid. Advising people to do so is almost reckless. I bet you didn’t push first on that big sale you had a few months back.

Sheesh there are people here who demand a newbie push first before payment in the sales section. Each person should do as they see fit.

The difference is that you're the one soliciting the sale. If you're going to approach strangers to buy something from you online, then you need to be prepared to show good faith and take the (very minor) risk.

My larger sale is a moot point. It was inbound, and handled by DAN.

Let's be honest... Most of us are doing outbound with $10 or $20 names. If there's some fluke occasion when we don't get paid, we lose very little. The buyer, on the other hand, could lose hundreds or more for trusting a stranger who approached them with a demand to pay first.

Of course everyone needs to make their own choice, but this is a no-brainer to me. It's the professional thing to do.

I'd be curious to read Domain Monk's story. I've never heard anyone say that this happened to them when doing outbound to businesses.

NameSmart · Aug 1, 2020

Great post indeed!

biggie · Aug 1, 2020

abstractdomainer said:
SO you consider any outbound attempts as spams?
If a broker takes a 6 figure domain and reaches out to 20 leads who may find value in the domain, are they spamming too?

Anybody making a sale attempt by getting in touch with a potential lead is a spam?

Hi

yes, it's all spam

domainers have coined the term outbounding to use as a synonym for such activity, in an effort to make spamming sound legal and legit
but it's still sending a solicitation by email to unsuspecting victims.

and because you think you have a "lead" which may not really be a lead, you feel justified in sending those solicitations.
and... because others domainers say they do it too, then that gives you more reason to do it as well.

yet, all it takes is for one recipient, to report you.

on the broker question:
anybody who has a domain that is really worth 6 figures, doesn't need a broker to solicit offers.
additionally, such a domain would naturally appeal to a wider audience, than the reg fee domain you're trying to get $200 for.

you ain't in same boat or even in same waters, as those you try to equate yourself with....and that too, may be part of problem.

imo...

Joe N · Aug 2, 2020

biggie said:
Hi

yes, it's all spam

domainers have coined the term outbounding to use as a synonym for such activity, in an effort to make spamming sound legal and legit
but it's still sending a solicitation by email to unsuspecting victims.

and because you think you have a "lead" which may not really be a lead, you feel justified in sending those solicitations.
and... because others domainers say they do it too, then that gives you more reason to do it as well.

yet, all it takes is for one recipient, to report you.

on the broker question:
anybody who has a domain that is really worth 6 figures, doesn't need a broker to solicit offers.
additionally, such a domain would naturally appeal to a wider audience, than the reg fee domain you're trying to get $200 for.

you ain't in same boat or even in same waters, as those you try to equate yourself with....and that too, may be part of problem.

imo...

It's naive to think that a six figure domain name couldn't benefit from being directly marketed to potential buyers. That's the exact reason brokers have jobs! They have many contacts. They reach out to them when they are representing suitable names for their contacts' campaigns/businesses/projects.

The label we give it doesn't matter. Call it spam if you want. Call it outbound marketing. They're just words and there are elements of both of them in this activity.

What matters is that if you're going to do it, do it well. Do your research. Be professional. Make sure you're offering something of value.

If you're selling names, you're doing something right. There's room for hustle in every industry, domaining included.

discuss Lesson Learnt: What not to do during negotiation

Top Member

dntop.comTop Member

Established Member

FREE.MARKETINGTop Member

Today is a Brand New DayEstablished Member

Top Member

Restricted (Market)

Top Member

dntop.comTop Member

domainer since 2001 / musicianTop Member

domainer since 2001 / musicianTop Member

Wesley SweatmanTop Member

Wesley SweatmanTop Member

Established Member

Top Member

FREE.MARKETINGTop Member

Top Member

Design & DevelopmentEstablished Member

Top Member

Top Member

Private InvestorTop Member

Top Member

Top Member

Established Member

GreenFriendly.comTop Member

Top Member

Similar threads

We're social

Pinned

Appreciation

Agreement