question I joined this forum 12 years ago but I wasn't ready to invest then. I'm ready now!!

Samer said:

Try not to buy non-com
You‘ll be tempted; hell i’m tempted everyday.
Samer

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Yesssir. Only dot coms.

TheBaldOne said:

If you have no experience at all in developing a domain into a website I would suggest the following steps:
Register a throw away domain name in as cheap a suffix as you can find (you will need this to use as your website - it really doesn't matter what the domain is, it is simply one you can use and transfer between hosts as you do the following and your 'site' will remain 'your' site)
Pick an area of interest of yours or something you know a fair amount about to make a site about
Open up a WIX.com account (easy website development package) and start developing your site (you should upgrade for the few dollars a month it will cost when you are used to the basic functions of the system)
Research constantly your subject and update your site accordingly
Research other websites in the same sphere and see what they do that you like, then try emulating it but also doing it better
The next step is the hardest most people find - start learning development website development languages, this will enable you to tweak many aspects of your website to your own desire rather than what is available in any development package
Of course you can purchase investment domain names between now and actually knowing what you are doing with development, but learn the tricks and the short comings of different development programs on a throw-away site.

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Thank you so much kind soul. These are actionable steps that I can take and follow.

Jimmysun said:

I think it's not too late involving this industry and actually I think it's good time to buy buy buy.

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Perfect! I'm a very hands on - make the mistakes and then learn - kinda guy. I will of course spend as much as time learning as many have suggested but I do want to get my hands dirty right away :D

passini said:

Now is a good time to buy.
OP says he has not so so much knowledge, and that is true as he is asking about how to transfer a name.
He must spend some more time learning things as he is ready to invest a very good sum for someone just starting out. Waiting in this moment can only bring prices lower, imho.

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All the wonderful things I have learned and mastered, I drove right in without knowing much about it and this approach and helped me fashion a mindset that is a little risk taking for sure but definitely fearless in going down new roads! I think the fact that risks are involved keeps me focused and invested and motivated in a level that I can't if I'm just always on the sidelines. I have spend 12 years on the sidelines. By the time prices get lower, I should have lot more tools in my tool box and I should be better prepared and make better buys :D

passini said:

This is right, now (and for now I don't mean today but also the next months/one year) is a perfect time to invest if someone has the capital the patience and the position to wait some years to get a good return.
I will not be able to invest big sums because I will need liquidity to survive (speaking mostly about my art business) but I will invest my time to find opportunities.
If you don't have so much money to invest try to use more of your time, this is one of the few things I learned in my 24 years of business.

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Bingo. There will be always be an ebb and flow to this game. My previous boss opened up his store in the middle of the 2008 recession. He cornered the market as there was no competition. Current timing wise, as you said there would be those who want to liquidate and there will be those like me who wants to buy. The show must go on and the show always will. After 12 years of saving up exclusively to invest in this industry, I'm ready. My plan is not to have a big portfolio of thousands of little ones. My plan is to have a short domain inventory but with bigger fish inside them. Invest time into those domains/websites = sell = reinvest = increase portfolio = rinse and repeat. As I said, I'm a simple human being and simple frameworks work great for me!

Bob Hawkes said:

Thanks for your post, and best wishes
Now to the rest of your question. Re development, I am not expert at all, but if you have not done it before I wonder if it might be wise to start development on a single not too expensive domain name, and have explored the technical side of doing it, along with learning more re SEO, before going in full-tilt. I would suggest a topic that you have expertise in, so the content comes naturally and you will feel motivated to have a good site. Evaluate how your first development went before trying multiple names. When signing up for your hosting program be sure to get one that supports your eventual plans, i.e. allows multiple sites, etc.
Bob

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Wonderful advice Bob. I do have been blessed with a cheat code in this area. In the last 12 years, my little brother on his own has taken a keen interest in web development. I'm not a techinical soul. I'm the idea guy, I got the passion and the motivation and the money to invest and I got a family source to develop those websites and I'm going to of course get my hands dirty and learn as much as from him and through him.

Bob Hawkes said:

Ultimately, the strategy of owning just a few names of high quality makes total sense. However, if all your funds are in just a few names, it is critical to make the right choices. The problem of jumping right to $5k (or something like that) name early on is the risk of making a wrong decision early on. The Domain King on his Twitter feed a few weeks ago proposed a beginning strategy of buying a domain name for say $50 and selling it for at least $100 net. After you are successful at that, buy a $100 name with aim to sell for at least $200 net. Then $200 for $400, $400 for $800, etc. soon one is up to six figure names!
Now I am not sure that I totally agree on one domain name, but the idea of showing success buying and selling a few lower value before shooting for a big ROI strikes me as having a lot of sense. I know some who are making money by scrounging deals on names, then flipping them quickly to other investors. I don't recommend that as an ultimate goal, we should all want to sell to end users at big margins, but as a starting strategy you will learn what sells, and does not, to other investors, while not risking a lot of money and time in a single name.
Whatever you do, the very best wishes for success, and we look forward to you sharing your experience with us on NamePros.
Bob

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Absolutely. If all the funds are in a just a few names, I gotta be real sure that I'm investing in quality and there is a long term plan attached to those. Baby steps makes logical sense but in the last 12 years, every industry and trade I have been part of, I have noticed that I like to get my hands dirty real early on. Putting my time and energy into bigger fish with the potential of higher reward makes sense to my brain. I would of course be mindful of the risks and walk that path carefully.

I learned early on that in this domain industry and perhaps any industry of trade, I would have more opportunities and roads open to me if I'm better at networking so I have actually spend good chunk of the last decade investing in human beings and networking. To me business and life is all about the relationships we create! Just to give you an example of how I'm processing my potential investment choices - Right now there is a domain on sale at NP - protectors[dot]com - One of my contacts is a semi national furniture retailer who is closing down bulk of his stores and the buyers who are buying out his inventory are not interested in his stock of mattress protectors which he happened to bulk up in the beginning of the year expecting good tax season sales. He is basically looking to unload these mattress protectors to anyone who is willing to receive them. To get access to his vendor account and his existing inventory would only cost me in shipping and storage right now. I could have the best prices for mattress protectors anywhere online as I wouldn't be trying to get rich off selling protectors. My aim would be to build the long term value of the domain and the website attached to it. Once I'm the leading authority of mattress protectors online, I can sell it later for far more than the money and energy I invested into it. I still wouldn't commit just because it's possible, I would only commit if it's possible for me. This is the kind of long term outlook I'm going to use to apporach my domains. I hope I can learn without making too mistakes and having too many pitfalls :D

WatchDogue said:

Just a few thoughts regarding your pursuit of investments in domain names.
Do study as much as possible the markets you are considering investing in - markets can and will fluctuate and you want to be as certain as possible that you are investing in a stable marketplace with reasonable expectations of market uptick.
Read through the NamePros reported sales section and see what has been and seems to be selling.
Read through NameBio.com and try and determine how to evaluate " comps " between sold names and names you are considering investing in.
Read through DNJournal.com, interesting articles and profiles and, great lists of reported domain names sale.

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Wonderful advice. Steps I can take! Thank you so much. You have made this forest a lot more easier to navigate!

frank-germany said:

you will make mistakes
accept it as a reality
first mistake was to wait 12 years
second mistake
.. we will see
money management might be the key
good luckb

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Haha. We will see indeed. I wanted to wait so that I would get to a place where I can invest and if everything failed 100% - I would still be okay and that took 12 years :D It wasn't just the money that I had that was 0, my overall skills like money management, networking, people skills, long term planning all had to be developed so I could be here today :D

Check out this thread:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/a-new-member-asks.973449/

Peace,
Kenny

https://cybersecurityventures.com/how-many-internet-users-will-the-world-have-in-2022-and-in-2030/

Do not spend that kind of money on domains when you dont understand domain value yet. I can assure you, you will end up wasting that money.

Spend a few months reading and learning, or at least get someone who knows what they are doing to help you.

Halloa. Read.

Kenny said:

Check out this thread:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/a-new-member-asks.973449/

Peace,
Kenny

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Yes. Thank you. Read and Read > Research > Have an exit strategy > Know the human = sounds like recipes for a good balanced life!

Jv1999 said:

At most, I would do a test run of $1,000 on aftermarket domains you think are good. When I say test run, I mean buying domains between $19 to $50 and sitting on them (or outbounding) and seeing if you make a sail.

At least this way you can either succeed and scale up... or see what doesn't work and learn from your mistakes.

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Thank you. This is a very interesting perspective. I guess it's the risk factor of losing $50 vs $1000 but I can't help but feel the experience would be skewed by trying to sell an inferior product? About 10 years ago, I sold mattresses for a while. A queen mattress in the building ranged from $99 to $7000. It was HARDER to sell the $499 queen mattress vs $3000 tempurpedic simply because it is so much easier to convey the value of the $3000 mattress. If you forget the risk factor, wouldn't you say investing your time and energy into conveying the value of a $5K domain is lot better than doing the same for $499 one? The mistakes I would make and the lessons I would learn developing and sitting on a $5k domain is only going to prepare me for even bigger domains down the road which is what I desire. As my cat says "If the bowl is not full of treats, why even get up"

gilescoley said:

Do not spend that kind of money on domains when you dont understand domain value yet. I can assure you, you will end up wasting that money.

Spend a few months reading and learning, or at least get someone who knows what they are doing to help you.

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That would be the dream. To have a Mr. Miyagi for Domains but how many of us can be so lucky to have selfless mentors. Though so many experienced users have already chimed in this thread and has given me actionable steps. I do appreciate souls trying to protect me from myself!! If my mind had it's way, I would have probably started at a much much higher amount - I had to use the same language and logic to myself and decide that a $5K would be a starting learning place I want to build from. I can only go either way way down or way way up and I like those dangerous odds :D

good luck then

Shad0w99 said:

Yes. Thank you. Read and Read > Research > Have an exit strategy > Know the human = sounds like recipes for a good balanced life!

Thank you. This is a very interesting perspective. I guess it's the risk factor of losing $50 vs $1000 but I can't help but feel the experience would be skewed by trying to sell an inferior product? About 10 years ago, I sold mattresses for a while. A queen mattress in the building ranged from $99 to $7000. It was HARDER to sell the $499 queen mattress vs $3000 tempurpedic simply because it is so much easier to convey the value of the $3000 mattress. If you forget the risk factor, wouldn't you say investing your time and energy into conveying the value of a $5K domain is lot better than doing the same for $499 one? The mistakes I would make and the lessons I would learn developing and sitting on a $5k domain is only going to prepare me for even bigger domains down the road which is what I desire. As my cat says "If the bowl is not full of treats, why even get up"

That would be the dream. To have a Mr. Miyagi for Domains but how many of us can be so lucky to have selfless mentors. Though so many experienced users have already chimed in this thread and has given me actionable steps. I do appreciate souls trying to protect me from myself!! If my mind had it's way, I would have probably started at a much much higher amount - I had to use the same language and logic to myself and decide that a $5K would be a starting learning place I want to build from. I can only go either way way down or way way up and I like those dangerous odds :D

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So agree, if I do something for a tiny profits then I think it’s definitely weasting time.
when I found something that worth doing( after my own reseach) I will stake a lot on it. without doubt and will be very confident to myself the move I made, in my investment journey the only thing made me fail is not persist on the original plan, the only way I can learn how to be successful is to fail at least twice by my own experience(cuz I knew I am not genius).

Jimmysun said:

So agree, if I do something for a tiny profits then I think it’s definitely weasting time.
when I found something that worth doing( after my own reseach) I will stake a lot on it. without doubt and will be very confident to myself the move I made, in my investment journey the only thing made me fail is not persist on the original plan, the only way I can learn how to be successful is to fail at least twice by my own experience(cuz I knew I am not genius).

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Bingo! Agree. You are my spirit animal Jimmy!

Good luck!

Hello, Shad0w99

Welcome to domaining!

For me domaining is a hunt.
You need to buy cheap and sell expensive in order to grow both your portfolio and your profit.
In my humble opinion good names are rare. Watch thousands of domains daily, note those you like and wait for at least the next day to take decision. I am making this daily and some weeks are completely dry. Patience is the key.
In my opinion you need to change your plan.
In order to sell expensive you'll need a greater number of domains.
You can begin with close out auctions(watch the domains from the day before the auction) or auctions here on NamePros. There you can find some good names in the range of 100-250$.
This will show you what other domainers like and will build up a "domain feeling".
When you have 100 domains, choose the best to develop and list the rest for sale.
You will still have the half of your budget for expensive purchases.

Happy hunting, Maximinus

frank-germany said:

you will make mistakes
accept it as a reality

first mistake was to wait 12 years

second mistake
.. we will see

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Hi
3rd mistake

posting how much you plan to spend

why?

cuz you'll prolly get some spam pm's from members who want your money now...before, you get educated.


imo...

goodluck

biggie said:

Hi
3rd mistake

posting how much you plan to spend

why?

cuz you'll prolly get some spam pm's from members who want your money now...before, you get educated.


imo...

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Ha! It's a good thing I'm getting all the mistakes out of the way right in the beginning :D You are not mistaken - I have about 10+ messages every time I login to the site :D Positive side of the story is that I'm very coachable and I'm learning with every mistake. Is there a better way to learn :D :D

Shad0w99 said:

Thank you. This is a very interesting perspective. I guess it's the risk factor of losing $50 vs $1000 but I can't help but feel the experience would be skewed by trying to sell an inferior product? About 10 years ago, I sold mattresses for a while. A queen mattress in the building ranged from $99 to $7000. It was HARDER to sell the $499 queen mattress vs $3000 tempurpedic simply because it is so much easier to convey the value of the $3000 mattress. If you forget the risk factor, wouldn't you say investing your time and energy into conveying the value of a $5K domain is lot better than doing the same for $499 one? The mistakes I would make and the lessons I would learn developing and sitting on a $5k domain is only going to prepare me for even bigger domains down the road which is what I desire. As my cat says "If the bowl is not full of treats, why even get up"

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Domains are not mattresses. More like artwork by an unknown artist that might either be nobody or might become the next Picasso.

And, here is another thing, with mattresses and any other normal stock, your business is geared to sell all the inventory within a year, sometimes few times over, with domains you will most probably sell 1/100 or even less of your inventory in a year.

So to buy $5k name and to be sure you have one $25K sale in a year, you'll have to hold 100 of those, i.e. invest $500K.

That is why many look for hidden gems at $8 to $50 range so that they can buy 200+ names at $5000 investment and sell 2 a year. And, for those names, you sell not for 5x but, for 20x to 200x.

Shad0w99 said:

D You are not mistaken - I have about 10+ messages every time I login to the site

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Hi

for sure i knew you would get them

and since you didn't ask for pm's, they can be considered as "unsolicited spam".

imo...

Domain trade and website business are different things. You will need to spend too much time in learning how to develop, run, buy and sell websites. It may take 10 years. After 10 years all domains and websites in its current form (ICAAN controlled domains and DNS + current central web hosting system) would be worth zero. I would spend the next 10 years in learning newer things like cryptos, blockchain, AI and so on. World wide web, www, is an old technology. There are many things in DNS and http we have used since 80's and 90's without any major improvement or change. Those may change anytime and everything we know about domains and websites may be worth zero in one night. In addition to this internet connections and our devices that we use to browse web pages may be developed in a way we can't even imagine.

It's more difficult and costlier to adapt to new improvements in old technologies than learning one of newer technologies. In fact, even blockchain is 10+ years old tech. But web tech that we use today is 35 years old. You should expect a major change in www.

Shad0w99 said:

I joined this forum 12 years ago and I had $0 to my name then. I'm now 12 years older and wiser and I have got the funds to invest in this industry in a level that I wanted to.

My plan right now is to invest and buy a few $5K and $10K and a couple of $20K domains - increase their value by developing them and sell 12 to 48 months later. It's a very simple framework as I'm a simple human being Though I have gained the funds to invest, I haven't properly gained the knowledge needed to protect myself in a new industry as I was donating all of my time to earn the money to invest!!! I was hoping experience will come in as it slowly does and that I will learn as I go.

I do have a question from a beginner's perspective. What are the steps I need to take as a new buyer when it comes to transferring the domain to my name? Is it pretty straight forward - the seller initiates transfer through their registrar - I get a confirmation of some sort - done - is that pretty much it?

You have all been here collecting more experience. Anything anyone care to share or give me some pointers as to pit falls that I need to watch out for?

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Actually $10 domains can be developed into million dollar businesses and more. As a matter of FACT I'm working on one right now. Like others have said, don't waste your money this way, but I would hire a business consultant who can help you determine which industries are most suitable for your development ideas. Good Luck!

poweredbyme said:

Domain trade and website business are different things. You will need to spend too much time in learning how to develop, run, buy and sell websites. It may take 10 years. After 10 years all domains and websites in its current form (ICAAN controlled domains and DNS + current central web hosting system) would be worth zero. I would spend the next 10 years in learning newer things like cryptos, blockchain, AI and so on. World wide web, www, is an old technology. There are many things in DNS and http we have used since 80's and 90's without any major improvement or change. Those may change anytime and everything we know about domains and websites may be worth zero in one night. In addition to this internet connections and our devices that we use to browse web pages may be developed in a way we can't even imagine.

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why would domains lose their value one day no matter what technology changes? people still need an address a.k.a domain to navigate the information network no matter what form it may look like.

Recons.Com said:

That is why many look for hidden gems at $8 to $50 range so that they can buy 200+ names at $5000 investment and sell 2 a year. And, for those names, you sell not for 5x but, for 20x to 200x.

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Thank you for your words. It does make lot of sense. If you find a hidden gems in that range, you can get upto 200x. Let me ask you this though, what are the chances of finding 200+ hidden gems at $8 to $50 range? Is this common in the industry that people make 20x to 200x from hidden gems? You said they are like artwork and doesn't that mean waiting for a buyer who can appreciate that hidden gem like you did when you bought it? Sounds like lot of rare things coming to together. On the other side you have premium names with value already attached to them that also doesn't require a discerning appreciating buyer.

Recons.Com said:

So to buy $5k name and to be sure you have one $25K sale in a year, you'll have to hold 100 of those, i.e. invest $500K.

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Hmmmm maybe the answer is to skip the middle all together. Go for the hidden gems and the super high end ones for maximum return on investment.

Shad0w99 said:

Thank you for your words. It does make lot of sense. If you find a hidden gems in that range, you can get upto 200x. Let me ask you this though, what are the chances of finding 200+ hidden gems at $8 to $50 range? Is this common in the industry that people make 20x to 200x from hidden gems? You said they are like artwork and doesn't that mean waiting for a buyer who can appreciate that hidden gem like you did when you bought it? Sounds like lot of rare things coming to together. On the other side you have premium names with value already attached to them that also doesn't require a discerning appreciating buyer.



Hmmmm maybe the answer is to skip the middle all together. Go for the hidden gems and the super high end ones for maximum return on investment.

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You are analyzing and eager to learn. That already means your chances to be successful in this industry are high.

Last night I sold a name for $2295, net $1835 via Afternic. It was bought for $13, including 1 year renewal, about 8 months ago. So, that gross of about 170x and net of about 150x.

In fact, for those you need those kinds of margins, because if you spent $5k on one name, your annual liability is $8.50, if you bought 200 names, your annual liability is 8.5$ x 200 = $1700.

So, yes, those names provide high return per sale, but they also come with higher liability.

For those names, it is absolutely vital to know what you are doing. When I said "artwork", a did not mean just relying on your senses. Art experts are exceptionally well educated to tell if the artwork is valuable, yet they cannot be replaced by software because it is not purely algorithm. Anything valuable that algorithm can recognize, gets picked up by HD and others who have unfair advantage. So you get those that they cannot.

And, no, it is not a random exercise left to chance. The name has to make sense for a business to name itself that (or its product) and it has to be way better than the available alternatives.

Examples of the ones I bought on days in the category of "hidden gems"

Fandge
Zonicle
Pazzoni
AfterSmile
WowGraphy
Encitizen
Athleets
Launchey
OutletStars
Pricle
Fashible
BrightCapture
Gowog
MoverUp
Dragonton
BancoEtico
PhotonClinic
InvestVenue
LarderLake
BeautyDentistry
Gymmunity

I would not jump at the big prices as a beginner. Read many articles from many websites. Part of the strategy is realestate like... Have a great day everyone!

In 2008 domain names were cheap,
If I had been able to invest in some domain names,
That should be a good profit by now,
The market is not good this year.
Whatever domain name you invest in,
I think it's best to invest in COM domain names,
If you don't mind, you can open up my list of domain names and see if you like them

Recons.Com said:

You are analyzing and eager to learn. That already means your chances to be successful in this industry are high.

Last night I sold a name for $2295, net $1835 via Afternic. It was bought for $13, including 1 year renewal, about 8 months ago. So, that gross of about 170x and net of about 150x.

In fact, for those you need those kinds of margins, because if you spent $5k on one name, your annual liability is $8.50, if you bought 200 names, your annual liability is 8.5$ x 200 = $1700.

So, yes, those names provide high return per sale, but they also come with higher liability.

For those names, it is absolutely vital to know what you are doing. When I said "artwork", a did not mean just relying on your senses. Art experts are exceptionally well educated to tell if the artwork is valuable, yet they cannot be replaced by software because it is not purely algorithm. Anything valuable that algorithm can recognize, gets picked up by HD and others who have unfair advantage. So you get those that they cannot.

And, no, it is not a random exercise left to chance. The name has to make sense for a business to name itself that (or its product) and it has to be way better than the available alternatives.

Examples of the ones I bought on days in the category of "hidden gems"

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Thank you so much for your words. I guess what I need to learn most importantly is to spend the time discerning and understanding how to determine the proper value of a domain. Thank you also for showing me examples. Congrats on that net 150x. That is really cool. I'm going to take everyone's advice and spend some time understanding the perspective of the end user.


Thank you so much for all the responses and helpful advice. I read them all and I'm trying to absorb as much as I can A big thanks to Giles @gilescoley He gave me the resources and tools I would need to better navigate this path. His knowledge is bottomless and his desire to help me was selfless and he is a wonderful blessing to this forum and I'm beyond lucky to know him.

Shoutout to @internext and @WatchDogue - Two wonderful souls.

Now for some updates: You guys said I would be making mistakes. I surely did. I didn't know backing out of a deal here at NP would warrant a negative review. I take full responsibility for not knowing the rules and for backing out. It was my very first negotiation and I just wanted to be sure and I reached out to a few pros for some perspective and I was advised by all of them not invest big money into .NET's in 2020. I conveyed that to the seller and it didn't go well. It is disheartening to wait 12 years and the first rating you get is a negative one but the way I see it, life wouldn't be fun if it was easy. All I can do is be transparent, learn and keep moving forward :D


The review I got:

Admin Review:

I will take the no infractions :D :D

On a positive note, I have been collecting some good stuff but the one I'm most excited about right now was the cheapest to get. elders[dot]us - cost me $10. My friend who I have known since I was 6 years old - he spend most of 2019 traveling up and down the U.S conducting video interviews with all the elders from as many native tribes as possible. He is trying to preserve a dying knowledge and perspective. He is in the processing of editing. I'm going to donate this domain to him if he wants it.