Domain Layaway and Post-pay Backorders

Rob Monster · Oct 30, 2019

In the last few weeks, a number of folks have asked me to register names for them as a courtesy with assurance of settling up a bit later. Usually it was some opportunistic hand-registration that was just not in the budget that day. It caused me to ponder about the need for a domain layaway, i.e. the ability to register a domain and and settle up a bit later, e.g. like a post-pay tasting period of up to 72 hours.

As for backorders, Epik already has the cheapest refundable backorders around, e g. $8.49 for .COM. However, many folks cannot afford to tie up $8.49 deposits and some do not even have a credit card that works reliably due to increasingly unfriendly banking practices in some parts of the world. This raised the question of whether Epik should introduce the option of post-pay backorders and again have a 72 hour settlement.

Candidly, I have not assessed the engineering task to deploy these changes but I wanted to assess the market appetite for introducing up to a 72 hour settlement window for approved accounts. To be clear, I don't imagine giving this capability to everyone. However, consistent with our relationship-based approach, I think there might be value in introducing some innovation around these 2 areas to help with bootstrap liquidity.

Rob Monster · Oct 31, 2019

aifenhao said:
I think that this will create a precedent for fraud, that is, a person orders a domain, uses it for free for three days (for example, puts it in the parking lot and receives income) and does not redeem his order.

We have a Domain tasting product but in that case the domain is paid, and you cancel within 5 days to get most of the registration cost refunded.

With a Domain Layaway, the domain is registered but the WHOIS and DNS are not set to the buyer's settings until they actually pay for it. This simply reserves the domain so it does not go away.

aifenhao · Oct 31, 2019

Rob Monster said:
We have a Domain tasting product but in that case the domain is paid, and you cancel within 5 days to get most of the registration cost refunded.

With a Domain Layaway, the domain is registered but the WHOIS and DNS are not set to the buyer's settings until they actually pay for it. This simple reserves the domain so it does not go away.

Thanks Rob, now I figured it out. It’s a good idea for deferred payment, for example, sometimes I myself can’t pay right away, it’s too lazy to go and replenish the card at the ATM, spending this time sucking soft drinks.

Rob Monster · Oct 31, 2019

aifenhao said:
Thanks Rob, now I figured it out. It’s a good idea for deferred payment, for example, sometimes I myself can’t pay right away, it’s too lazy to go and replenish the card at the ATM, spending this time sucking soft drinks.

Exactly -- it is not intended to enable reckless speculation. It is for people who are in a temporary circumstance likely due to increasingly unpredictable payment systems in some parts of the world. 72 hours is enough time to move funds between accounts, even accounting for a weekend. That was essentially the thinking. It is far more scalable than me looking at personal favor requests that I might see too late to be helpful. In other words, we are looking at how to scale, but without losing our capacity to demonstrate compassion.

frank-germany · Oct 31, 2019

Rob Monster said:
ICYMI, the backorders for NP members are $8.49. However it is still up front. We are looking at how to shift that to a post-pay model to further level the playing field.

As for your old loan request, the domain is not at Epik so it was rejected. You would likely otherwise be eligible for an interest-free Domain Loan.

was reject today
after a few ( quite a few ) month(s) waiting

no other loan request was possible
while 1 request was pending

frank-germany · Oct 31, 2019

Rob Monster said:
- I have been fairly selfless in teaching and sharing what works.

the question of selflessness
is exactly the doubt here

Rob Monster said:
- I have also placed an emphasis on investing back into the industry. Shortly you will see a new DomainGraduate.com powered by Epik that is completely free. This will be a first fruit from eRise.org, our Digital Empowerment platform. I think this too is consistent.

promotion

Rob Monster said:
As for the topic of shameless self-promotion, as some have accused me, I think there is a difference between randomly inserting a reference to Epik in arbitrary threads, versus what I actually do which is refer to Epik with illustrative examples, as needed, but always in context.

you play it along with the rules
still promotion everywhere

Rob Monster said:
If my agenda was purely to make Epik a huge company, I am sure that I would not have been openly declarative about my personal positions on certain controversial topics in various NP threads.

that was most likely
a very clever way to get epik into the mind of everybody

Rob Monster said:
So, yes, Digital Empowerment is a cause that enthuses me. Epik is doing some novel things there. Personal productivity also enthuses me. I have learned a few things, and share them openly. Along the way, I might annoy a few folks. That is not my intention.

and promotion

make sure the last sentence is about epik and its products
the last sentence is was sticks in the brain

Rob Monster · Oct 31, 2019

frank-germany said:
was reject today
after a few ( quite a few ) month(s) waiting

no other loan request was possible
while 1 request was pending

I review those loan requests. I must not have been too keen on you that day. It's possible since you have been a thorn in my side for quite a while now. Very few people even understand why, but I am sure you consider yourself to be in the right. I doubt it but we'll let God judge that one when the day comes.

frank-germany · Oct 31, 2019

Rob Monster said:
I review those loan requests. I must not have been too keen on you that day. It's possible since you have been a thorn in my side for quite a while now. Very few people even understand why, but I am sure you consider yourself to be in the right. I doubt it but we'll let God judge that one when the day comes.

God?
ok

when I was asking for a domain loan
I had never heard of you - at that time

Bob Hawkes · Oct 31, 2019

After thinking about the proposal a few days, my opinion has changed slightly. I don't think implementing it is probably a good idea. My main concern is that it would encourage some to make instant decisions without properly thinking about them. Many of those will come to regret the acquisition, and in other cases they will not pay and Epik will regret.

I think it is reasonable to have in place a loan program with proper oversight, that Epik already has in place as I understand it. Beyond that, if someone can not pay today they should not acquire today. Yes, there will be random cases where it makes sense, and Epik is nimble enough those could be handled on a per individual request basis without a specific plan in place.

Best wishes whatever you decide to do.

Bob

oldtimer · Oct 31, 2019

Bob Hawkes said:
My main concern is that it would encourage some to make instant decisions without properly thinking about them. Many of those will come to regret the acquisition, and in other cases they will not pay and Epik will regret.

Not if Epik (Rob) reviews your wish list and has to approve the domains that are going to be put in layaway (as I had mentioned in my earlier post). As the matter of fact that can cut down on a lot of useless domains being registered.

IMO

Rob Monster · Oct 31, 2019

oldtimer said:
Not if Epik (Rob) reviews your wish list and has to approve the domains that are going to be put in layaway (as I had mentioned in my earlier post). As the matter of fact that can cut down on a lot of useless domains being registered.

IMO

The point there is a good one -- some folks could be pre-approved for layaway. On the other hand, requested from unexperienced or new domainers could be subject to review. I had not considered it before, but the point is right on. In the end, people's situation should be improved by this innovation. If not, the idea is an unsustainable loser.

aifenhao · Oct 31, 2019

Rob Monster said:
I review those loan requests. I must not have been too keen on you that day. It's possible since you have been a thorn in my side for quite a while now. Very few people even understand why, but I am sure you consider yourself to be in the right. I doubt it but we'll let God judge that one when the day comes.

Fantastic excerpt Rob, I would send him to the on big cock.

oldtimer · Oct 31, 2019

Rob Monster said:
In the end, people's situation should be improved by this innovation. If not, the idea is an unsustainable loser.

Rob, if you personally review the domains that are going to be put in layaway that will surely improve the quality of the portfolios that are created through the layaway program specially for those domainers who are constantly in the process of refining their portfolio.

Refining = dropping bad domains and replacing them with good ones.

IMO

Rob Monster · Oct 31, 2019

oldtimer said:
Rob, if you personally review the domains that are going to be put in layaway that will surely improve the quality of the portfolios that are created through the layaway program specially for those domainers who are constantly in the process of refining their portfolio.

Refining = dropping bad domains and replacing them with good ones.

IMO

That won't scale, but I got your point, and we are developing better domain quality scoring to help mitigate such concerns at scale. At some point that Domain Quality Index (DQI) score will become visible in user's Epik control panel which should help folks quickly identify names they should probably not drop. We have a DQI score that we use internally already. So, this is just a logical extension of that existing tool.

oldtimer · Oct 31, 2019

Rob Monster said:
At some point that Domain Quality Index (DQI) score will become visible in user's Epik control panel which should help folks quickly identify names they should probably not drop.

Rob that's great, the sooner the better.

Rob Monster · Oct 31, 2019

oldtimer said:
Rob that's great, the sooner the better.

OK, we'll fast-track it. People can use it at the own risk.

@vitigo - Add it to the Performance tab as a sortable column.

oldtimer · Oct 31, 2019

Rob Monster said:
OK, we'll fast-track it. People can use it at the own risk.

@vitigo - Add it to the Performance tab as a sortable column.

In order to reduce the risk of good domains being dropped perhaps you can add a feature that the domains with low DQI score can be sent for a manual review by Epik or by having them posted on a special thread here to get the opinion of the Namepros experts before people decide to drop them.

PS: Some domains like future trend domains might get low score and need human review and evaluation, so DQI score should be used only as one of the factors to determine the domains potential and should not be used as the sole determinant.

Hopefully AI will become advanced enough soon that it can help with domaining.

IMO

Silentptnr · Nov 1, 2019

Not to change the subject but another idea would be a contract to advance renewal fees.

If a domain is at Epik, why not advance a renewal fee for a small fee.

I wouldn't do the layaway, but if someone needs help with renewals, would bring over their domains, and pay a small fee, that's the kind of deal I might get behind.

Pay.My.id · Nov 3, 2019

I feel its depend on epik mission

Silentptnr · Nov 3, 2019

Interest fact. DomainLayaway .com was registered in 2001. Someone thought of the concept 18 years ago.

Rob Monster · Nov 3, 2019

Silentptnr said:
Not to change the subject but another idea would be a contract to advance renewal fees.

If a domain is at Epik, why not advance a renewal fee for a small fee.

I wouldn't do the layaway, but if someone needs help with renewals, would bring over their domains, and pay a small fee, that's the kind of deal I might get behind.

We do this now -- the accounting is done as an interest free loan, e.g. for folks where the grace period is not enough time, or where they don't want the DNS to change at expiration. The loans are secured only by domains without recourse in case of default. We have also helped folks get funds from outside lenders, but that is typically at hard-money rates. For philosophical reasons, we are not in that business directly.

topdom · Nov 7, 2019

If I don't have money now, then probably I won't have any money after 3 days.

Amar D · Nov 12, 2019

This service is amazing, I had chance to try it. My debit card was not in function, and I saw a good domain name. I've asked @Rob Monster to reserve it for me, and he did it quick.

After I resolved my debit card issues in 5 days, I gave him money back (reg-fee) for this domain name and he pushed the domain into my Epik account.

10 minutes ago, I've sold that domain name for 500$ at Epik's marketplace.

It's so nice that one businessman will give you some of his time, to reg you a domain name without that you need to pay on that day or if you have problems like me with card.

asxforum · Jul 1, 2020

How is this service doing?

Rob Monster · Jul 1, 2020

It was never released as an official feature but we have 2 capabilities:

1. An expanded domain lending platform: https://domainequity.com/

2. The ability to request a layaway at [email protected] for true emergencies.

Most folks who own bankable domains and have at least 24 hours flexibility should choose #1.

asxforum · Jul 1, 2020

Very nice options .

1. An expanded domain lending platform: https://domainequity.com/

2. The ability to request a layaway at [email protected] for true emergencies.

Most folks who own bankable domains and have at least 24 hours flexibility should choose #1.

Domain Layaway and Post-pay Backorders

Should Epik introduce 72 hour post-pay as a feature? Sort by votes

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No, and, by the way, this idea is whack

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