Ethics of staying quiet when newbies reg rubbish?

DomainGist · May 30, 2020

I dip in and out of this forum, leave for 9 months, back for 6 etc. Most recently quit domaining and had a change of heart and started to rebuild.

But every time I come back here I see a few newbies hand-registering absolutely turgid rubbish by the hundreds or even thousands.I won't name any names here as it would look like an attack.

I know that some people just won't listen, and I see a few people trying to get them to stop, but these people are undermined by people who 'like' their reg of the day.

Lets be clear here, I'm not talking about 'subjectivity' here, but I'm talking about people registering domains with 3 hypens, or 50 character nonsense domains.

So two questions:

1. Do we have moral obligation to be straight with these newbies and tell them that they are registering rubbish, even if this is a thankless task and the person refuses to listen and even doubles down on what they are doing.

2. Is it ethical for experienced domainers to 'like' posts which seem to validate the newbies selections.

I look at some of these people with thousands of completely unsellable hand regs, and on one hand I do think that they probably play their part in keeping registration and renewal prices down for every domainer as these nonsense domains are part of the ecosystem and generate cash for the registry and registrars, but on the other hand these domainers could be in debt, or blowing money from family savings without their wives knowing.

I find it very difficult to see people spending like $7000 on terrible handregs without saying something.

One particular individual got very angry with me and suggested that he isn't rich enough to get domains from closeout, but a domain from closeout costs what... $25 including one year renewal, and this individual has hundreds and hundreds of hand regs from all sorts of extentions. So if they took their time they could build a decent port of say 100 closeout domains over a period of 12-18 months, that would probably cost them less.

Why do people ignore these newbies and let them waste their money, and more importantly why do some people seem to encourage this really self-destructive and damaging behaviour by pressing 'like' on red-widget8383eu.biz or whatever nonsense they have registered?

Thoughts?

biggie · May 31, 2020

equity78 said:
The flipside for the newer investors should be always to figure out who is giving advice,

I have said for well over a decade,

Hey Ray

that's a missing part of the puzzle
because, for a newcomer, any member can give advice
and rarely will the newbie question their credential or experience and sometimes won't even question the advice.

they may just be glad, that somebody responded to them.

but the funny part is, is that the person who gave advice, may have heard it from somebody else.... and never verified it.
like the hand me down statement > that a domain is only worth what a buyer will pay

wonder how many believe it and have repeated it to others?

or take for instance:

somebody starts a thread about hand registering domains and posts how one can go to various appraisal tools to check statistics of a domain or keyword.

then you have many other posts on the forum, that talks about how useless appraisal tools are.

somebody starts a thread about hyphen domains and then folks go register hyphens.
and in contradiction to that, there are many posts that advise one to stay away from hyphenated domains.

there is a lot of confusing, contrary and contradictory information being posted on the forum.

so, who or what, you gonna believe or follow....
the nice guy/gal that talks sweet to you so their words are easy to swallow.
or the straightforward, in your face, blunt advice, that may hurt your feelings, type of gal/guy.

in such a scenario,
there may be a barrier of "like or dislike" that prohibits or prevents one from "hearing" that advice unless it's somebody they "like".

and probably the volume of "likes" here, could be a persuasive factor.... for those who are presumptive and can be persuaded by such factors... if again they don't investigate how those likes where accumulated.

may folks should be check, check, checking the advice and the advisor..... like they be check, check, checking their domains against appraisals tools everyday, to see if values changed.

puff puff… ahh on a sunny sunday morning in chitown

imo...

NickB · May 31, 2020

biggie said:
Hey Ray

that's a missing part of the puzzle
because, for a newcomer, any member can give advice
and rarely will the newbie question their credential or experience and sometimes won't even question the advice.

they may just be glad, that somebody responded to them.

but the funny part is, is that the person who gave advice, may have heard it from somebody else.... and never verified it.
like the hand me down statement > that a domain is only worth what a buyer will pay

wonder how many believe it and have repeated it to others?

or take for instance:

somebody starts a thread about hand registering domains and posts how one can go to various appraisal tools to check statistics of a domain or keyword.

then you have many other posts on the forum, that talks about how useless appraisal tools are.

somebody starts a thread about hyphen domains and then folks go register hyphens.
and in contradiction to that, there are many posts that advise one to stay away from hyphenated domains.

there is a lot of confusing, contrary and contradictory information being posted on the forum.

so, who or what, you gonna believe or follow....
the nice guy/gal that talks sweet to you so their words are easy to swallow.
or the straightforward, in your face, blunt advice, that may hurt your feelings, type of gal/guy.

in such a scenario,
there may be a barrier of "like or dislike" that prohibits or prevents one from "hearing" that advice unless it's somebody they "like".

and probably the volume of "likes" here, could be a persuasive factor.... for those who are presumptive and can be persuaded by such factors... if again they don't investigate how those likes where accumulated.

may folks should be check, check, checking the advice and the advisor..... like they be check, check, checking their domains against appraisals tools everyday, to see if values changed.

puff puff… ahh on a sunny sunday morning in chitown

imo...

Can I quote you on "puff puff" and put it in my domain quotes thread?

BaileyUK · May 31, 2020

Over the years we've all learnt there's a lot of stubbornness when it comes to domains. It's to be expected. Domains are like that new device sitting on your home-desk that you've had /used for bloody years without ever reading (or even looking at) the instruction book.

Years later, either by necessity or chance you come back across that old instruction book. Bloody-hell I never knew that or Shit, so that's what that was for - or could do. You promise yourself next-time I buy a new device I'm going to read the instruction book. But, you never do.

Yep it's stubbornness mixed with impatience. A real bad mix. that's Domains for many. Still one day that instruction book will turn-up OR you'll have long thrown the new device/domains out the window.

Silentptnr · May 31, 2020

I think it comes down to making the best possible choices.

Because so many domains are available for hand registration, every attempt should be made to invest in the best available domain. That can be somewhat subjective.

Most often it is a good idea to wait on registering any domain for a few days or even a week. Perhaps purposely look for other better domains. It's rewarding to realize you avoided an inferior domain upon reflection.

My feeling is, to each their own. I'm not here to judge other than to express hope for others to succeed. I give likes to tons of hand regges that I would not register. My "likes" are an expression of support to other domainers. My like won't make a bad domain good, or a good domain bad. So many good, even great domains, sit on the shelf waiting for a buyer often for decades....yes decades.

Look at the liquidation sites springing up. Look at the top domainers using the liquidation sites. They are liquidating bad investments. Happens to everyone.

When we look at the portfolios of big investors, we find many domains that are very low quality. When we look at the hand registrations of mythic domain investors, we find let's just say, not good regges.

Lastly, I don't classify members as newbies except that they might be new to this forum. I have no idea of a persons background, knowledge, life experience, culture or anything else. I don't assume a posture of superiority. I only share in the excitement of investing in domain names.

There is no one formula for success.

CraigD · May 31, 2020

biggie said:
Hey Ray

that's a missing part of the puzzle
because, for a newcomer, any member can give advice
and rarely will the newbie question their credential or experience and sometimes won't even question the advice.

they may just be glad, that somebody responded to them.

but the funny part is, is that the person who gave advice, may have heard it from somebody else.... and never verified it.
like the hand me down statement > that a domain is only worth what a buyer will pay

wonder how many believe it and have repeated it to others?

or take for instance:

somebody starts a thread about hand registering domains and posts how one can go to various appraisal tools to check statistics of a domain or keyword.

then you have many other posts on the forum, that talks about how useless appraisal tools are.

somebody starts a thread about hyphen domains and then folks go register hyphens.
and in contradiction to that, there are many posts that advise one to stay away from hyphenated domains.

there is a lot of confusing, contrary and contradictory information being posted on the forum.

so, who or what, you gonna believe or follow....
the nice guy/gal that talks sweet to you so their words are easy to swallow.
or the straightforward, in your face, blunt advice, that may hurt your feelings, type of gal/guy.

in such a scenario,
there may be a barrier of "like or dislike" that prohibits or prevents one from "hearing" that advice unless it's somebody they "like".

and probably the volume of "likes" here, could be a persuasive factor.... for those who are presumptive and can be persuaded by such factors... if again they don't investigate how those likes where accumulated.

may folks should be check, check, checking the advice and the advisor..... like they be check, check, checking their domains against appraisals tools everyday, to see if values changed.

puff puff… ahh on a sunny sunday morning in chitown

imo...

@biggie
I agree with you. I have sat on a portfolio for many years and only in the last few months - thanks to lockdown - have I been hanging around here trying to catch up this information that did not exist when I started out.

Personally, it's been a steep climb learning about how this forum operates, and who everyone is and what they bring to the table, as it is about improving my knowledge. While I'm new here, I at least have some experience (both with domains and in life), so I imagine it would be quite a daunting experience for a younger person who is 'new to the game'.

Perhaps Namepros could create a new tag for it's most valued knowledgeable members - something along the lines of an 'Honorary Professor', so that newer members know that they can instantly trust the advice and intentions of that member?

Silentptnr · May 31, 2020

So for me, I'm lucky. I sell domains. Both hand reg and aftermarket names. But the truth is, I plan on retiring my real estate business in the next ten years (I'm 52 now), and I will dedicate much more time to building my domain business.

My 21 yo daughter is just graduating. She's brilliant, and she just got hired as a Data Scientist at global Biotech firm based in Ireland. Her needs are lessening which is lightening my load.

Anyway, I'm slowly, carefully building my portfolio mostly for 10 years from now. By then I will have spent 15 years learning and improving my domain investing.

I think each investor has a plan, solid or not, that I may not know about. I respect that.

equity78 · May 31, 2020

biggie said:
so, who or what, you gonna believe or follow....
the nice guy/gal that talks sweet to you so their words are easy to swallow.
or the straightforward, in your face, blunt advice, that may hurt your feelings, type of gal/guy.

That's an excellent point, and for some they do want the nice words and see anything remotely harsh as being a trigger.

I think a bigger point in all this is why someone wants to do this? It's not glamorous, you are not hand regging great names, very good names in the eye of the beholder but not to the community as a whole. There are timely names that come up or slip through and you register. I have always found a lot of success with GoDaddy closeouts, not as much lately because to be honest over the last two years I have not spent as much time looking for them. Of course the Huge Domains bot affects that as well.

A very good name is one that appeals to more than just one person, group or company. It's why hand regging is so tough, it's a big world if a name appeals to many prospects it's more than likely one has picked that name up.

It's why brandables became so popular, a lot of domainers don't have big budgets starting out.

When you and I started what could you get a 3L.com for? I bought XEF.com for like $800 in 1999, and I thought I was spending a lot, today a new domainer has to drop min, $10,000 for a bad letter combo probably more like $11,500.

When people realized oh, 3L.com expensive, 2L.com became astronomical, 4L of the CVCV kind are getting expensive, they looked for something they could hand reg or get real cheap. made up pronounceables, I can't afford Mojo.com but I can afford lexxo.com or I can't afford hippo.com but I can afford orangehippo.com.

I can't afford Fresh.com so how about Freshly.com or Freshex.com?

People are always going to want the cheapest form of entry into the business until they understand it. Because others got there before them, now the names ending in Ly are not cheap for entry level, so the game gets harder and harder.

Asking one to ponder is the juice worth the squeeze?

Federer · May 31, 2020

Hand-registrations, en masse, should avoided by 99% of new domain investors, period.

When you own average, mid tier .COMs, and presuming you are very experienced at choosing the right types of domains, you need a reasonable-sized portfolio to get consistent sales (at least 750-2,500 .COMs). The small % (0,8-1,8%) that you do sell need to far outway the 98%+ that do not, over a given year - and that's after taking away comissions and the cost of time invested.

With experience in buying domains at expiry auctions / on the aftermarket and selling domains to end users on a regular basis, you will learn with time (if you are still here) what packets of keywords have higher chances of selling to end buyers over a given time-frame. If the quality is at least average and consistent, it becomes a profitable % game long-term.

P.S. I have personally just hand-registered these past few days around 2500 .COMs. That being the case, I do not recommend any non-veteran members here to hand register bulk quantities of names (I have been in the game since 2007 and have at my disposal years of data/end user sales to help me make informed decisions).

NickB · May 31, 2020

Federer said:
Hand-registrations, en masse, should avoided by 99% of new domain investors, period.

When you own average, mid tier .COMs, and presuming you are very experienced at choosing the right types of domains, you need a reasonable-sized portfolio to get consistent sales (at least 750-2,500 .COMs). The small % (0,8-1,8%) that you do sell need to far outway the 98%+ that do not, over a given year (and that's after taking away commissions and the cost of time invested.
With experience in buying domains at expiry auctions / on the aftermarket and selling domains to end users on a regular basis, you will learn with time (if you are still here) what packets of keywords have higher chances of selling to end buyers over a given time-frame. If the quality is at least average and consistent, it becomes a profitable % game long-term.

P.S. have hand-registered, just these past few days, around 2500 .COMs. That being the case, I do not recommend any non-veteran members here to hand register bulk quantities of names (I have been in the game since 2007 and years of personal data/end user sales to help me make informed decisions).

Just curious, how long did it take you to put together that list of 2,500 domains you recently regged?

Federer · May 31, 2020

Using a few tools to help with combination-creation (without giving away too much of the sauce) and (especially) my mind (going through each and every name), maybe 1.5 to 3 days work tops.

My main focus is toward certain keywords (in the top 50-100) that are registered daily by end users over the globe (keywords that are globally-friendly, and not just U.S.-centric).

biggie · May 31, 2020

CraigD said:
Perhaps Namepros could create a new tag for it's most valued knowledgeable members - something along the lines of an 'Honorary Professor',so that newer members know that they can instantly trust the advice and intentions of that member?

Hi

I feel where you're coming from,

but wouldn't want such a tag.
nor would I want someone to "instantly trust" any advice given.... just because I said it.

it also would put NP in the position of giving that tag and possibly being responsible for advice given by that individual.

as for me, I expect, hope and even anticipate, a rebuttal or a further question to explain a point, position or opinion expressed.
that's...conversation and engagement.

imo...

NickB · May 31, 2020

Federer said:
Using a few tools to help with combination-creation (without giving away too much of the sauce) and (especially) my mind (going through each and every name), maybe 1.5 to 3 days work tops.

My main focus is toward certain keywords (in the top 50-100) that are registered daily by end users over the globe (keywords that are globally-friendly, and not just U.S.-centric).

Lot of automation in use then?.....do you also use scripts, automation etc when it comes to pricing & researching pricing your domains? Because at this volume it must be bloody time consuming if your not...

Not asking you to reveal the sauce just trying to get a flavour....

DomainGist · May 31, 2020

CraigD said:
@biggie

Perhaps Namepros could create a new tag for it's most valued knowledgeable members - something along the lines of an 'Honorary Professor', so that newer members know that they can instantly trust the advice and intentions of that member?

Would just cause those people to quit as they'd get a hundred messages a week.

Also, would Adam Dicker have had that tag a few years ago?

Somebody who knows what they are doing isn't necessarily a nice guy or somebody you can trust.

Silentptnr · May 31, 2020

I would be interested to know what @Michael Cyger over at dnacademy says about this topic.

marijuanadomain · May 31, 2020

That how you learn by regging pigeon shit domains.
It is all about the journey!!
and good for the economy...spent spent spent$$$

NLP · May 31, 2020

I jump into the Appraisals thread once in a while because I think it helps for people to know that a name might not be worth the reg fee (and to understand why).

But in general, I think don't really sink in until the person makes their own mistakes. Registering and dropping 200-300 names is painful. It's money that could be spent on other things.

There's no guarantee people will take the advice to heart. But I do think it's important to warn people about the learning curve and the mistakes people typically make in domaining. If everyone would read sales lists, really study what's selling, and look at what more experienced investors are buying (if they happen to mention acquisitions on Twitter, or blogs (try searching older posts), or in conversation) for a month or two before jumping in and buying anything, a lot of worthless registrations could be avoided.

hawkeye · May 31, 2020

Why so many here feel they need to 'teach' or consistently 'preach' to newer domainers what to register or not, or what is good or not, in the 'interest of saving people from wasting money' , is somewhat baffling. There's nothing wrong with pointing out to some newer domainers that their domain regs are not so good, and/or they should be learning and concentrating on what sells better for their benefit and experience. But to constantly and consistently be doing so, and to the same peeps, is pointless and waste of time and efforts. There are those that can never accept or be told they are off course. Many join here as they've read and heard the success stores of those that have made dramatic profits selling domains, and feel for $10, it could happen to them too, never understanding, realizing or caring of the reasons why those sales were made. Some come here to learn and do, and many come here to feel they are part of the industry just because they have regged some names, and will never attempt to learn or try to understand the dynamics of selling domains. They feel they are just as smart as anyone else in regging domains, and will not be told differently. So Be It! As the saying goes - You can lead a horse to water, you can't make it drink it! So why some need to keep trying and trying and belittling, seems really more so only to satisfy their own ego that 'only they' know what is right or not, or what will sell or not. Sooner or later newbies will, or not, figure that out for themselves. Everyone that joins this forum is standing waste high in the vast pool of domaining knowledge, whether they decide to drink the knowledge or not..is their choice! JMO.

DomainGist · May 31, 2020

hawkeye said:
Why so many here feel they need to 'teach' or consistently 'preach' to newer domainers what to register or not, or what is good or not, in the 'interest of saving people from wasting money' , is somewhat baffling. There's nothing wrong with pointing out to some newer domainers that their domain regs are not so good, and/or they should be learning and concentrating on what sells better for their benefit and experience. But to constantly and consistently be doing so, and to the same peeps, is pointless and waste of time and efforts. There are those that can never accept or be told they are off course. Many join here as they've read and heard the success stores of those that have made dramatic profits selling domains, and feel for $10, it could happen to them too, never understanding, realizing or caring of the reasons why those sales were made. Some come here to learn and do, and many come here to feel they are part of the industry just because they have regged some names, and will never attempt to learn or try to understand the dynamics of selling domains. They feel they are just as smart as anyone else in regging domains, and will not be told differently. So Be It! As the saying goes - You can lead a horse to water, you can't make it drink it! So why some need to keep trying and trying and belittling, seems really more so only to satisfy their own ego that 'only they' know what is right or not, or what will sell or not. Sooner or later newbies will, or not, figure that out for themselves. Everyone that joins this forum is standing waste high in the vast pool of domaining knowledge, whether they decide to drink the knowledge or not..is their choice! JMO.

Sounds like this post may be influenced somewhat by some very specific posters and incidents in mind?

I don't know who or what you are referring to here, as I said.... I often 'go missing' for six months at a time, and thus I don't know the ins and outs of what happens here.

In terms of this specific thread, from what I can see one individual has taken it personally and turned it into a conversation about himself, which has then garnered various responses. Those don't appear to be entirely unsolicited, nobody had mentioned that poster until he appeared on the thread.

hawkeye · May 31, 2020

DomainGist said:
Sounds like this post may be influenced somewhat by some very specific posters and incidents in mind?

No, specific poster(s). This is just a redundant conversation that has been an ongoing thing for a long time.

DomainGist · May 31, 2020

xbank said:
@DomainGist 2009 - and I get into 2020 11 years is what I see, I joined this forum and I started to feel when I look at some of the names and I talk to myself if I start a company why would I go for such a name, so that's why I thinking a lot.

I'm just a middle of the road tier 3 domainer with periods of moderate success, that's the truth. But I'm also one of the small proportion of domainers who are prepared to pick up a phone and sell a small business owner a domain, so for many any techniques that I adopt may not fit well with the preferred model of most people.... most people aren't prepared to do that, and have a thin skin when told to f off.

But I'd honestly just pay close attention to what sells, how it was obtained, how and where it was sold, and ROI, and part of that is paying close attention to the completed sales thread which is the only thread worth reading on a daily basis.

DomainGist · May 31, 2020

hawkeye said:
No, specific poster(s). This is just a redundant conversation that has been an ongoing thing for a long time.

Well just because you've seen the same conversation many times over 14 years doesn't mean that everybody else has. I haven't participated in such a conversation before, and don't keep up with this forum on a regular basis.

I can see now that I've opened up a big can of worms with reddstagg, but that was never my intention and its not my fault he's floating around making threads all about himself. Nobody had mentioned him and I'd never seen his name until 2 weeks ago.

DomainGist · May 31, 2020

Reddstagg said:
Buying or regging is easy it's the selling that is the hard bit.

Nope, buying or regging good domains is the hard bit.

Good domains are easy to sell, and can often sell themselves.

Reddstagg · May 31, 2020

DomainGist said:
Nope, buying or regging good domains is the hard bit.

Good domains are easy to sell, and can often sell themselves.

And you keep dragging me back in making this thread all about me again.

Who is actually the person or persons who decides whether a domain name is good or not. That's right. There is no such person. By implication you are stating that I am not buying or regging good names. Have you even visited my Efty Marketplace and seen all of my domains?

Just by the very nature of humanity they cannot all be bad names. They are so varied in their formulation and the extensions that they are listed in again suggests that they may appeal to many different socio-economic groups.

I challenge you to pick 10 random names from my portfolio and then explain to everyone why you think they are a bad registration. You're selection should be random for the exercise to be worthwhile. I will listen to your observations and I'll have the civility to acknowledge fair and unbiased opinions but I won't ever accept someone saying domains are rubbish, crap or not good names without any explanation.

Now, the ball is back in your court.

I await your inevitable response.

Regards,

Reddstagg

equity78 · May 31, 2020

CraigD said:
Perhaps Namepros could create a new tag for it's most valued knowledgeable members - something along the lines of an 'Honorary Professor', so that newer members know that they can instantly trust the advice and intentions of that member?

Namepros cannot take that or want that responsibility. Over the years that would have been given to Adam Dicker, Rick Latona, maybe Shane Bellone and Chef Patrick.

There are no absolutes. There is no such thing as instant trust.

Peak.Domains · May 31, 2020

I think it's important to allow people to save face whenever possible.

Redd clearly stated that his involvement in this thread was just for marketing purposes and that he's basically lasso'd all of you into his master plan to gain exposure for his portfolio and name recognition (that's Redd with 2 D's). Maybe we can just accept that and move on?

Then in year 3, 4, 5... if he realizes that his initial strategy isn't quite working out as planned, and that the best salesman in the world can't sell bad domains nearly as easily as the worst salesman in the world can sell good domains, and he's tired of leaning these lessons the hard way, he will be comfortable enough to reach out for advice and guidance, and I hope the community will be happy to offer.

If somebody wants to be stubborn and spend their own money in a way that isn't conducive to a successful domain business, they have every right to do that and once they've made it clear they are not open to advice and they don't want any constructive feedback, it's time to move on because there are many people who would KILL for this kind of advice, attention, and feedback and they would actually VALUE it, and take action on it, and are willing to learn the easy way instead of learning every lesson the hardest way.

Some people just have to figure it out on their own, you can lead a stag (1 'g') to water but you can't make them drink.

He doesn't want advice, he doesn't want feedback. He wants to post about his purchases, and doesn't want to hear anyone's opinions about them.

That seems like a reasonable request, if that's what it takes to keep the peace. Is it strange to post about your names on a public forum and not expect any comments or feedback on them? Sure, of course, but it seems like a request that we could accommodate pretty easily.

Ethics of staying quiet when newbies reg rubbish?

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