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Ethics of staying quiet when newbies reg rubbish?

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I dip in and out of this forum, leave for 9 months, back for 6 etc. Most recently quit domaining and had a change of heart and started to rebuild.

But every time I come back here I see a few newbies hand-registering absolutely turgid rubbish by the hundreds or even thousands.I won't name any names here as it would look like an attack.

I know that some people just won't listen, and I see a few people trying to get them to stop, but these people are undermined by people who 'like' their reg of the day.

Lets be clear here, I'm not talking about 'subjectivity' here, but I'm talking about people registering domains with 3 hypens, or 50 character nonsense domains.

So two questions:

1. Do we have moral obligation to be straight with these newbies and tell them that they are registering rubbish, even if this is a thankless task and the person refuses to listen and even doubles down on what they are doing.

2. Is it ethical for experienced domainers to 'like' posts which seem to validate the newbies selections.

I look at some of these people with thousands of completely unsellable hand regs, and on one hand I do think that they probably play their part in keeping registration and renewal prices down for every domainer as these nonsense domains are part of the ecosystem and generate cash for the registry and registrars, but on the other hand these domainers could be in debt, or blowing money from family savings without their wives knowing.

I find it very difficult to see people spending like $7000 on terrible handregs without saying something.

One particular individual got very angry with me and suggested that he isn't rich enough to get domains from closeout, but a domain from closeout costs what... $25 including one year renewal, and this individual has hundreds and hundreds of hand regs from all sorts of extentions. So if they took their time they could build a decent port of say 100 closeout domains over a period of 12-18 months, that would probably cost them less.

Why do people ignore these newbies and let them waste their money, and more importantly why do some people seem to encourage this really self-destructive and damaging behaviour by pressing 'like' on red-widget8383eu.biz or whatever nonsense they have registered?

Thoughts?
 
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not at all
the dash topic is more complex

Frank you don't disagree with Honestly, dashes in domains should not be allowed as they are indeed usually taken & used for malicious purposes.
 
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Frank you don't disagree with Honestly, dashes in domains should not be allowed as they are indeed usually taken & used for malicious purposes.

oops
I've overseen that

thats pure nonsense
 
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I remember you saying

I sold a hyphenated .COM in the last couple weeks for $14K. It was probably a term that would have sold for $500,000+ without the hyphen.

However, I will say hyphenated sales are few and far between even for top quality terms that make sense.
That type of sale is an outlier.

Brad

And it was to a German buyer. They certainly have less of an issue with hyphens than the rest of the world.

Brad
 
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And it was to a German buyer. They certainly have less of an issue with hyphens than the rest of the world.

Brad


a .de with hyphen may make much more sense to a german in some cases than the non dashed version

for .com its most likely different

and its not like "germans like hyphens"
they actually don't care more for hyphens
than you do for commas
 
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Great thread, and I think Brad, Raymond and others made a lot of good points.

Nobody wants to hear that their baby is ugly.

Furthermore, there are numerous ways to make money, and also numerous ways to lose money, so often the "advice" isn't going to be 100% perfect, however it can be based on strong empirical data (i.e. it's a very high probability that a 2-letter dot-com is going to be worth more than that hyphenated 5-word dot-xyz; or, on average you're probably going to lose your shirt if you repeatedly engage in cybersquatting of famous brands, etc., e.g. iREIT!).

Yesterday, I learned about a TV show called "Selling Sunset"

https://www.netflix.com/title/80223108

about some realtors in Los Angeles selling high end properties, and one of the agents was brutally honest in describing one of their clients (in Season 1, episode 1 --- I'm still catching up!), saying "Not everyone has good taste!" She wasn't sugar-coating her statements, or being diplomatic (some people like that, others don't; makes for an entertaining TV show, though). Sometimes the "sugar coated" messages don't have the same impact as the brutally honest ones.....

Fortunately, over time the market rewards those making good decisions, and punishes those making bad decisions. Those who make good decisions will (on average, not always) make money, whereas those who make bad decisions will (on average, not always) lose money.

For example, in blackjack or poker (which are relatively "simple games", that we can model mathematically with ease), there are basic strategies that dominate other strategies. e.g. (assuming no card counting) you'd want to double down in blackjack on cards adding up to a total of 10, and split two 8s (you can read about "Basic Strategy" on many blackjack websites). You might lose any individual hand following that strategy, but on average in the long run you're better off. Similarly for poker, there are times when you should be "all in", but then end up losing with a "bad beat". So, risk management principles, risk vs. reward, are important. Take calculated risks, rather than erratic/irrational ones.

With domain names (and business in general), unlike pure gambling games like poker or blackjack, there are far more variables involved, and the game can change over time, so you can't model them mathematically with any ease. Sometimes you can follow a horrible strategy, but end up making money despite the odds being against you. Other times, you might have made a great decision, but still ended up losing money. Was it a "lucky" outcome for a bad/good decision, or what you expected should have happened? You'd have to decide for yourself, but folks can certainly give their opinions (but be prepared for some folks to be angry, hostile and resentful when you give it, like all the "debates" that have gone on for years about different strategies, like dot-com vs. new gTLDs vs ccTLDs, or 4L.com domains, or whatever; you need a thick skin when both giving and receiving advice!).

Anyhow, I personally try to follow simple principles that have worked for me in my own domain name choices (relatively low number of high quality domain names, mostly dot-com, that I can see a future use in my company, that I can conceivably "keep forever" and don't have to ever sell; dropping domains I consider "worthless" or low value, e.g. 2-word hyphenated domains where I already own the non-hyphenated dot-com). But, folks are adults, and can make their own choices.

Not to say that I'm always "rational". I know that on average I will lose money if I buy a lottery ticket, for example, but occasionally will still plunk down $5 on a single Lotto Max ticket if the jackpot is big enough! (I won't spend hundreds of dollars in a week, though, like some people do)
 
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"Ethics of staying quiet when newbies reg rubbish?"

The title of this thread assumes many things, firstly of course is that everyone understands and agrees the definition of the word 'ethics'. The term 'ethics' is usually described and defined as involving some form of 'morality', and that alone opens up a huge debate on what and whose morality is the base on which the then definition of 'ethics' is subsequently based on.

The title then goes on to an action, that of 'staying quiet'. Does this include not posting derogatory remarks about a persons vision of the domains they have registered?

Then the word 'newbie' is in the title. Can someone, including the author of the thread please give some kind of sensible definition of the word 'newbie'. The term 'newbie' would seem to be a time limited term, after all an established member can surely not be referred to as a 'newbie' can they? But then again what dictates the definition of an established member? Is a 'newbie' someone who has not registered a domain name yet or perhaps someone who has not been domaining for 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, or even a year? Or is it that the number of domains a domainer has registered that should be used as a yard stick to measure if someone is a 'newbie'?

Then of course we come to the great word 'rubbish'. I look around this world and I see many amazing things with strange names, a giraffe for example, why is it called a giraffe? Even if we think about language many things that we take for granted today was unintelligible in the past, some of them in the recent past. Look at the business names that succeed today and in the recent past, some of them are either totally unrelated to the business they represent or are meaningless in themselves as existing words. All of this should indicate that just to say something is 'rubbish' is as about as 'rubbish' as you could get.

Perhaps my age and mellowing temperament mean that now instead of insulting people or their thoughts I would try to engage them into why they registered a domain. When someone asks for help then if I think I can help with constructive advice I will normally give it.

There is one piece of advice I would give to anyone thinking of taking up domaining - make and follow a plan to read up on cognitive psychology of words, it is a fascinating subject and perhaps will help in understanding domaining and all its facets much better.

Oh, and before you think that is 'rubbish' - read the paragraph below:

"Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. "

https://www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk/people/matt.davis/cmabridge/

(Damn, I just couldn't resist replying. :xf.smile::xf.grin::xf.rolleyes: )

Yay. Hoorah for The Bald One. He or she or they or them gets it. Finally. Is it wrong that I could read an invasion plan for aliens in that message? I know it is hard to imagine, but not everyone thinks I have lost the plot. I didn't even know I had a plot to start with lol. I've spread my portfolio out across many different areas/niches/trends etc...diversification can sometimes be a good thing too. If I covered every possible number on a roulette table would I win? No, probably not as I'm sure I would pay out more than I would get back. But what price that thrill? This is the quantifiable aspect of domain investing that cannot be quantified.
 
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The strange thing is that most that have been around the block for twenty odd years (or some a lot more or less) Don't really have much to gain if anything from hanging around at namepros. Apart from being called a know-all (which I take as a compliment).Fortunately for me domains did allow me to retire 14 years early

I guess we mostly use it as a deja-vu exercise to relive our own past mistakes - And try to prevent others from doing the same. . What I'd like to emphasize though, Is indeed we too have heard and read the same rhetoric over and over again about other people not understanding their long-term plan and their hold-them until the market understands. I personally don't recall any staying around longer than 3 years max

It is correct that most of us don't like to talk about our sales (it seems like boasting unnecessarily) but we are all happy to share the mistakes we have learnt from.

I look at a lot of the domains listed at the base of posts and think If that's the best you have I don't think anybody can help you. - but that doesn't mean I won't try when a post is asking for comments or someone oversteps (in my opinion) the self promotion aspect - aimed purely to mislead (again my judgement and opinion) And most importantly I will stay around to back-up or indeed defend my posts. Some personal attacks can be beyond the pail. So my measure is always let the other person set the tone and fire the first shots. then I'm a Donald Trump lookalikey ;) Politeness is always met with the same, That's unless you set-out to deceive
 
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Great thread, and I think Brad, Raymond and others made a lot of good points.

Nobody wants to hear that their baby is ugly.

Furthermore, there are numerous ways to make money, and also numerous ways to lose money, so often the "advice" isn't going to be 100% perfect, however it can be based on strong empirical data (i.e. it's a very high probability that a 2-letter dot-com is going to be worth more than that hyphenated 5-word dot-xyz; or, on average you're probably going to lose your shirt if you repeatedly engage in cybersquatting of famous brands, etc., e.g. iREIT!).

Yesterday, I learned about a TV show called "Selling Sunset"

https://www.netflix.com/title/80223108

about some realtors in Los Angeles selling high end properties, and one of the agents was brutally honest in describing one of their clients (in Season 1, episode 1 --- I'm still catching up!), saying "Not everyone has good taste!" She wasn't sugar-coating her statements, or being diplomatic (some people like that, others don't; makes for an entertaining TV show, though). Sometimes the "sugar coated" messages don't have the same impact as the brutally honest ones.....

Fortunately, over time the market rewards those making good decisions, and punishes those making bad decisions. Those who make good decisions will (on average, not always) make money, whereas those who make bad decisions will (on average, not always) lose money.

For example, in blackjack or poker (which are relatively "simple games", that we can model mathematically with ease), there are basic strategies that dominate other strategies. e.g. (assuming no card counting) you'd want to double down in blackjack on cards adding up to a total of 10, and split two 8s (you can read about "Basic Strategy" on many blackjack websites). You might lose any individual hand following that strategy, but on average in the long run you're better off. Similarly for poker, there are times when you should be "all in", but then end up losing with a "bad beat". So, risk managements principles, risk vs. reward, are important. Take calculated risks, rather than erratic/irrational ones.

With domain names (and business in general), unlike pure gambling games like poker or blackjack, there are far more variables involved, and the game can change over time, so you can't model them mathematically with any ease. Sometimes you can follow a horrible strategy, but end up making money despite the odds being against you. Other times, you might have made a great decision, but still ended up losing money. Was it a "lucky" outcome for a bad/good decision, or what you expected should have happened? You'd have to decide for yourself, but folks can certainly give their opinions (but be prepared for some folks to be angry, hostile and resentful when you give it, like all the "debates" that have gone on for years about different strategies, like dot-com vs. new gTLDs vs ccTLDs, or 4L.com domains, or whatever; you need a thick skin when both giving and receiving advice!).

Anyhow, I personally try to follow simple principles that have worked for me in my own domain name choices (relatively low number of high quality domain names, mostly dot-com, that I can see a future use in my company, that I can conceivably "keep forever" and don't have to ever sell; dropping domains I consider "worthless" or low value, e.g. 2-word hyphenated domains where I already own the non-hyphenated dot-com). But, folks are adults, and can make their own choices.

Not to say that I'm always "rational". I know that on average I will lose money if I buy a lottery ticket, for example, but occasionally will still plunk down $5 on a single Lotto Max ticket if the jackpot is big enough! (I won't spend hundreds of dollars in a week, though, like some people do)

great post
thanks George
 
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If people would worry less about my business model and leave me alone I will not need to keep on defending my actions.
But that's exactly what I mean...

People comment on your business model because you invite that by discussing it openly.

You do not need to defend your actions to anyone, but if you're going to engage in the discussions, be prepared for people to engage back.
 
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How come people are so overly obsessed about their STR? It continues to be mentioned in this thread as if the Holy Grail is to get a 2% STR but at the end of the day that doesn't mean anything.
 
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But that's exactly what I mean...

People comment on your business model because you invite that by discussing it openly.

You do not need to defend your actions to anyone, but if you're going to engage in the discussions, be prepared for people to engage back.

Exactly Joe, this has been going on since the beginning of domain forums. I will say what I want you will reply, I will say you are a troll, hater, nazi, fascist, angry person living in your parent's basement. And then the thread is off back and forth while the forum owner enjoys those sweet, sweet page views.
 
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How come people are so overly obsessed about their STR? It continues to be mentioned in this thread as if the Holy Grail is to get a 2% STR but at the end of the day that doesn't mean anything.

It is a bar, it is not the only bar. But when it comes to a mathematical model you need data points like that.

Someone might only have 400 domains and sell 1 for $500,000. Obviously in that case the STR is irrelevant.

As a portfolio gets larger though the STR becomes more relevant usually.

Brad
 
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One has to be careful, even if well meaning, in promoting what has worked for you (particularly if with a portfolio that was assembled a decade ago) as working for everybody.
This is so key, Bob - there are individual skill sets temperaments and personalities that match different methods of Domaining. See Reddstagg post fragment below.....

If I could afford to drop a million on a domain name I would probably still be doing my hand regs as it is something that I enjoy.
Boom. That is how I feel. While I would add acquisitions of higher value to the mix I would still enjoy seeking out hand regs and drops.

However, on a side note one of the offers was $xxx rather than the other two which were both $xx.
Bold of you to tell this, Reddstagg. It IS a long term, and very personal journey - I have sold names for prices that I put on it thinking there’s no way anyone would pay it and buy it now gets used to my surprise. Then I look at some of the lists of sales posted on DNjournal and NameBio and shake my head at the absurdity of the prices some people pay for some names! I say to myself I just don’t get it! What it proves though is that there is plenty of room for individualized strategies.

Redd, I don’t know if this thread was started about you or not, but common decency says if someone asks what you think about a name there’s a way to offer an opinion and otherwise you shouldn’t offer and if they don’t ask for an assessment of their name don’t give it. Getting in a pi**ing match doesn’t help anyone. Just ignore the naysayers if they just naying to neigh.
 
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It is a bar, it is not the only bar. But when it comes to a mathematical model you need data points like that.

Someone might only have 400 domains and sell 1 for $500,000. Obviously in that case the STR is irrelevant.

As a portfolio gets larger though the STR becomes more relevant usually.

Brad

Words of wisdom people. People entering the business should take note :)
 
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Everybody has a choice in which domains they choose regardless of what people think it is worth. Everybody has being surprised at some point in laughing at others with a junk domain which sold for $$$$$.

People who buy a domain will buy them (as the individual believes they know best) everybody has different opinions that is why world is so perfect :).

Skill 60%
Gambling aspect 30%
Luck 10%

Domains
High tier 5%
Middle tier 15%
Low tier 25%
Junk 55%
 
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there is no accounting for taste
 
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So two questions:

1. Do we have moral obligation to be straight with these newbies and tell them that they are registering rubbish, even if this is a thankless task and the person refuses to listen and even doubles down on what they are doing.

2. Is it ethical for experienced domainers to 'like' posts which seem to validate the newbies selections.

I find it very difficult to see people spending like $7000 on terrible handregs without saying something.

Why do people ignore these newbies and let them waste their money, and more importantly why do some people seem to encourage this really self-destructive and damaging behaviour by pressing 'like' on red-widget8383eu.biz or whatever nonsense they have registered?

Thoughts?

We, as a whole, have no moral responsibility to to tell newbies they are registering rubbish.

However I believe I DO personally have a moral responsibility to voice such an opinion if I am asked directly or see a sincere request for domain names opinions/comments posted by a newbie.

And I would never use the word " rubbish " instead would state a negative opinion of visibly poor domains in an initial kindler and gentle verbiage.

A would-be newbie domain buyer can read for free and forever how to buy domains and how to sell domains right here on NamePros.

If the newbie reads through NP and still buys less-than-desirable domains for thousands of dollars, so be it.

If the newbie never finds and reads through NP and just goes out and decides to buy thousands of dollars worth of less than desirable domain names, the newbie will quickly learn by the lack of inquiries, offers and sales that their portfolio is sub-standard.

And the person who has and will rapidly spend thousands of dollars on domain names of questionable quality would likely spend that same amount on some other " investment " opportunity in time, apparently destined to go " all in " to make it big.

The newbie who can and will spend thousands of dollars on questionable names is to me less of a concern than the newbie who is extremely concerned over their hundred or couple hundred dollar domain name investment and state that their investment is, in effect, substantive in their financial well being.

Domain names is a business and every newbie, well heeled or of marginal financial means, has a personal responsibility to learn about the business they have decided to invest their money in.
 
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Hello, Everyone!

I am a newbie and I hand reg rubbish all the time.
Domaining is much more comlex than any beginner can imagine. This is why I have a simple question:
"Is there anyone with long domaining experience willing to advice me, or just answering a question or two per month?"

PM me, please!
 
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One of the difficult things about domaining compared to most industries is that for the most part you don’t know much if anything about the person you are conversing with, getting advice from. There are exceptions of course, people get to meet people at domain conferences, (though no one has on their badge, I am broke or I am a scammer). There are also high profile domainers who share a lot and use their real name.

Opinions or advice without knowing anything behind the person giving them are pretty empty imo.

You get people who give opinions on names in appraisal sections and you have no idea if they know anything about the industry said name belongs to. Do they know anything about linguistics, branding? No?

The value of that opinion is reg fee, like so many domains are appraised at reg fee. The theory for some goes if someone paid $9 for it then it can’t be worthless, others would differ in their opinion. So the same goes for people, you have the right to speak and to give an opinion, but it equates to reg fee.

Same goes with negotiation advice, some people give very bad advice in forums and blog comments. For the person seeking negotiation advice, all they know is MetallicaFan has a sweet avatar but might not even know how to negotiate for an extra .50 an hour at their job.

The worst advice in my opinion, comes from those anonymous sources who are giving legal advice. “You tell that company to go f themselves!” “I would ignore it, you have every right to own a name with Instagram it.” Yeah might be better to contact Berryhill or Lieberman. The truth is most domainers who participate on forums and blogs know very little to nothing about TM law and intellectual property.

Another thing that happens with not knowing the people you interact with is there are many false narratives that get built up.

One tidbit that surprised a lot of people came up in the CQD.com case on Namepros. James Booth had unknowingly bought a stolen domain, that belonged to a lady in Florida.

One of the hot takes of that thread was some people who never met or knew anything about Mr.Booth, declaring he was a millionaire and that he should just eat the loss, he can afford it.

To which Mr. Booth posted:



I had a couple people say to me they were flabbergasted that Booth was not a millionaire. I asked the one person if they ever met James or knew anything about him? They just figured that they saw him mentioned on Namepros and DNJournal so he was rich.

You have to do your homework in the business and verify from more than one source if you are going to spend money, or make a deal.

You need to do your homework thoroughly, you need to be meticulous before making a decision that affects your domain business.

In this business no one really knows a lot about anyone. Hopefully you know yourself and go from there. Best of luck.

Alot of good points. Regarding Booth, anyone who can spend 26K on a domain to resell is certainly not hurting for money. To most, that is a big chunk of change and would naturally assume the guys are wealthy. So I don’t blame the poster in that scenario. Anyone who isn’t a millionaire and spending that kinda cash for one domain is probably a little crazy. JMO.
 
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"Is there anyone with long domaining experience willing to advice me, or just answering a question or two per month?"
Yes, this forum. You just have to be willing to decipher and accept what you feel is right or not. Same as you would have to with an individual with 'long' domaining experience giving it.
 
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Yes, this forum. You just have to be willing to decipher and accept what you feel is right or not. Same as you would have to with an individual with 'long' domaining experience giving it.
Hello, hawkeye!
Do you really believe this forum to be private?
 
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