question Is ICA your friend?

trelgor said:

. Even though they may have acquired distinctiveness for the ”generic domain name brand”, and that this is a good argument for TM, they would be able to cope pretty well without it.

Click to expand...

You'd think, but covetousness has no end.

They'll roll up the singular/plurals, verb conjugations, other TLDs, non-English equivalents, etc..

The ICA has published a major study of the public's comments to ICANN's proposed .com fee hike.

You can read it here:

http://www.circleid.com/posts/20200...of_public_comments_submitted_to_icann_part_i/ (PART I)

and here;

http://www.circleid.com/posts/20200...of_public_comments_submitted_to_icann_part_ii (Part II).

This is, IMHO, an excellent and current example of the work that the ICA does.

Grilled said:

With all due respect, this might be a position many, who may have never heard of or have heard very little of the ICA accomplishments, might share.

Perhaps it's a simple matter of information distribution. Webinars are cool. But a public verifiable list of accomplishments might be more easily distributed to the masses for a greater understanding of what the ICA does or has done.

Simply a suggestion. Not an accusation or meant to be antagonist towards the ICA.

Click to expand...

I'll comment here. I served as the Executive Director of the Domain Name Association and was the co-founder of quite a number of domain name conferences, including NamesCon, and I attend the majority of the ICANN meetings around the world.

ICA has a presence at these events where they are actively and constructively engaged in representing the voice of commercial registrants. I watch Zak constructively participating in working groups within the ICANN community, and Kamila is tirelessly supporting the interests of members. Nate and others from the board are actively engaged as well.

I reckon I have the privilege of being there at these meetings to see the activity, and it is likely less visually apparent, but FWIW I see registrants benefiting from the organization and efforts that the ICA are doing.

Another angle to look at this through is to contrast the ICA against the other organization(s) representing commercial registrants, if one could point me at it/them.

Third and final, commercial registrants with the wherewithal to participate in ICANN are typically larger corporate interests that do not always have a desire for outcomes that align with those of investors or small to medium businesses. Having representation - especially within fora where the 'domainer' is frequently vilified by opposing parties - having the ICA there, where they have the opportunity to be proactively communicating the integrity and legitimacy of professional registrants and domain name investors is really important.

Jothan Frakes said:

I'll comment here. I served as the Executive Director of the Domain Name Association and was the co-founder of quite a number of domain name conferences, including NamesCon, and I attend the majority of the ICANN meetings around the world.

ICA has a presence at these events where they are actively and constructively engaged in representing the voice of commercial registrants. I watch Zak constructively participating in working groups within the ICANN community, and Kamila is tirelessly supporting the interests of members. Nate and others from the board are actively engaged as well.

I reckon I have the privilege of being there at these meetings to see the activity, and it is likely less visually apparent, but FWIW I see registrants benefiting from the organization and efforts that the ICA are doing.

Another angle to look at this through is to contrast the ICA against the other organization(s) representing commercial registrants, if one could point me at it/them.

Third and final, commercial registrants with the wherewithal to participate in ICANN are typically larger corporate interests that do not always have a desire for outcomes that align with those of investors or small to medium businesses. Having representation - especially within fora where the 'domainer' is frequently vilified by opposing parties - having the ICA there, where they have the opportunity to be proactively communicating the integrity and legitimacy of professional registrants and domain name investors is really important.

Click to expand...

Thank you. Interesting. I guess to larger corporate interests, domain investors are all lumped together and stamped "nuisance". To them domain investors all have similar strategies and similar outlooks. This is the classic layman VS professional knowledge dilemma. You see what you know (and care about).

Within the domain investment community there are very different approaches. By representing a top 1% with the classic approach of one word generic and short domains, you are risking to disrepresent some of the rest. The train left the station for those kinds of strategies a long time ago, unless you already don't need much assistance. Domain investing is still alive, well and growing though.

It would be quite easy to become confined to a bias bubble with a very coherent view from all clients and contacts that are really the tip of the iceberg.

That said, it is probably better with an investment oriented domain registrant advocate present, than not.

I missed another crucial thing that the ICA represents, which is to combat the narrative of bad behavior among the investment community through the voluntary Code of Conduct of ICA members.

At least once a month, often more frequently (and nearly daily in covid19 times), I have the opportunity to share the link to the ICA's CoC to yank the rug out from under someone dissin' on the investment community.

https://www.internetcommerce.org/about-us/code-of-conduct/

When we assembled the code of conduct for the ICA (I was at oversee.net, one of the founders and participated in this process), it established a bright line that really diffused the negative portrayal of domain developers and professional registrants.

The ICA IS your friend. Support the living daylights out of it.

Jothan Frakes said:

At least once a month, often more frequently (and nearly daily in covid19 times), I have the opportunity to share the link to the ICA's CoC to yank the rug out from under someone dissin' on the investment community.

https://www.internetcommerce.org/about-us/code-of-conduct/

Click to expand...

With all due respect,

what do you say to those,

with a perspective who may think "some" ("or possibly the most recent ICA member profile featured on the homepage")

engage(d)s in spam? or similar activities that may bring negative light upon domain investing?

and/or to those who don't know if the code of conduct is being enforced, and as such, may think link dropping a possibly loosely or selectively enforced code of conduct is more of a joke, or a display of hot air, than anything else.

One argument being the CQD.com example, as it's one of the biggest black eyes that exists within the domain investing community today [if not within the widely known domain investing community, then simply within nP]. With a seemingly multiplied effect, leaving an impression that transactions at Escrow.com aren't as safe as was once believed prior to this example. To my knowledge, even though @spoiltrider was eventually able to recover her domain, I don't believe the case was ever fully resolved.

And seeing Escrow.com @Escrow.com Support is an ICA gold member, the light of certain ICA members involvement, doesn't help the impression of the ICA. Especially when applying the knowledge of the CQD.com scenario + considering one of the five published missions of the ICA [condemning and fighting fraud]. As to some, some of the actions of certain ICA members, to include the escrow company involved, didn't seem to align with the mission of condemning or fighting fraud.

To elaborate on spam being a root source, I question whether or not the CQD.com instance have occurred in the same fashion if domainers (likely some ICA members) hadn't made a habit of bulk spamming LLL.com owners?

https://www.namepros.com/threads/re...-a-stolen-domain.1068888/page-46#post-6680650



I don't believe @spoiltrider was soliciting the domain for sale when she received an email inquiring on her LLL.com [CQD.com]. Yet, due to an influx of spam inquiries, (possibly found via bulk WHOIS report on all LLL.com, with a focus on domains without a recent WHOIS update) when her email account was allegedly compromised, there was no shortage of potential buyers for the suspected hacker/thief to solicit to.

Lots to unpack there. I won't dive into the specific case that you raise as I haven't followed it closely at all to speak intelligently on CQD.com or whatever is going on with that. Shit situation if that's your name.

I have written and deleted a bunch of other responses that flip me into politician mode but I think the text I'll stick with is that there will always be forms of jack-assery around and we have to as an industry work collectively to rise above the things that taint domain investment and professional website developers.

Like most people, there is more of a focus on trying to inspire people to keep the faith and support one another and I am very busy just keeping the lights on and helping with local food banks and things in my community during this really unprecedented time we find ourselves in.

The reason I spoke up about the ICA and supporting it - being important and helpful and constructive - is that there is nothing else but individual activities and efforts operating ad-hoc to improve things without some organization making the efforts.

My goal in stepping up to support the ICA was to inspire constructive support among the community here on this forum by highlighting some things that I witness as being incredibly important and beneficial towards positive impressions. Though high in strength in the impressions that are made beyond our forums and places we meet or speak, the important activities of the ICA are not obvious.

For those who didn't attend, or wish to re-watch, @Zak Muscovitch had showed up to last Fridays [April 17th, 2020] zoom meet up presented by @Michael Cyger

I can't speak for others. Just wanted to say thank you, and to post the video for others to enjoy.


Speaking for myself, I was pleasantly surprised by what he and other representatives [not sure if they are on nP] ICA staff had to say. As somebody who's been critical of certain ICA staff/policy, it was definitely a curve ball to my opinion, as to what the ICA does, and a little insight directly from ICA staff.

Also, regarding previous mentions of the ICA badge, and a possible importance of it to the common, or newer observer. @bmugford has been going above and beyond, not just now, but historically on nP, for having strong ethics, and promoting positive comments for newer domainers to follow. Not sure how much a members opinion, such as his or other active members with a ICA badge, weigh in on important decisions within the ICA. Just thinking, I question if their continual posting has provided more positive awareness for the ICA, amongst nPer's at least,.that their opinion should be equally as valued as the higher paying members (if that's even applicable).

As if I understood @Jothan Frakes correctly, having the ICA to support and uphold a standard for domainers, is better than having none at all. And as such, it might be beneficial to reconsider his invitation to support the living daylights out of the ICA.

Grilled said:

For those who didn't attend, or wish to re-watch, @Zak Muscovitch had showed up to last Fridays [April 17th, 2020] zoom meet up presented by @Michael Cyger

I can't speak for others. Just wanted to say thank you, and to post the video for others to enjoy.

Speaking for myself, I was pleasantly surprised by what he and other representatives [not sure if they are on nP] ICA staff had to say. As somebody who's been critical of certain ICA staff/policy, it was definitely a curve ball to my opinion, as to what the ICA does, and a little insight directly from ICA staff.

Also, regarding previous mentions of the ICA badge, and a possible importance of it to the common, or newer observer. @bmugford has been going above and beyond, not just now, but historically on nP, for having strong ethics, and promoting positive comments for newer domainers to follow. Not sure how much a members opinion, such as his or other active members with a ICA badge, weigh in on important decisions within the ICA. Just thinking, I question if their continual posting has provided more positive awareness for the ICA, amongst nPer's at least,.that their opinion should be equally as valued as the higher paying members (if that's even applicable).

As if I understood @Jothan Frakes correctly, having the ICA to support and uphold a standard for domainers, is better than having none at all. And as such, it might be beneficial to reconsider his invitation to support the living daylights out of the ICA.

Click to expand...

Try to get them to lower cost

Their intentions were never suspect, just price. (least to me)

Better to have some protection than none at all, i agree.

Samer

I think that you were heard Samer

Grilled said:

As if I understood @Jothan Frakes correctly, having the ICA to support and uphold a standard for domainers, is better than having none at all. And as such, it might be beneficial to reconsider his invitation to support the living daylights out of the ICA.

Click to expand...

I support the ICA. I encourage others to do the same. There is not really any other group looking out for the interests of professional website developers and domain name investors in a similar manner.

I believe @Samer commenting seemed to have been heard: https://domainnamewire.com/2020/04/...tion-introduces-25-a-month-membership-option/

Oral arguments were held in the Booking.com case, you can listen here:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?47141...argument-patent-trademark-office-v-bookingcom

The person arguing the Booking.com/ICA position is surprisingly rude to opposing counsel and to the judges at one point.

But she makes it clear that one of the reasons Booking.com wants the trademark registration is to make it procedurally simpler for them to go after foreign domain name registrants using _in rem_ lawsuits in the United States.

The most disingenuous argument advanced by the Booking.com/ICA side is the repeated notion that "we won't go after things like hotelbooking.com" and so on.

What you have here is someone essentially arguing "I want to have a bomb big enough to blow up the moon, and a rocket capable of getting that bomb to the moon."

"So, you want to blow up the moon?"

"Oh, no, I just want the bomb and the rocket, I wouldn't dream of blowing up the moon."

"Then why do you want a bomb and a rocket capable of blowing up the moon?"

"Because I'm entitled to them, and I'd just like to have them. But, trust me, I'm not going to blow up the moon, and none of the other people like me are going to blow up the moon either. We just want to have the ability to do it."

Regardless of whom Booking.com seeks to target once they get their weapon, their promises before this court are not binding in any sense, and are certainly not binding on other people who obtain similar rights in dictionary words with .com appended, and used FOR the purpose for which they are dictionary words.

One has to be stupid not to realize there is a wealth of precedent under, for example, the UDRP, that says "adding an additional word to a trademark doesn't render the domain name non-confusing". So, to anyone who is familiar with basic UDRP principles, it is absolutely clear where this is heading.

The argument that "this makes dictionary word domain names potentially more valuable" ignores the fact that it also renders EVERY OTHER DOMAIN NAME CONTAINING THAT DICTIONARY WORD to be potentially worthless.

Don't kid yourself. It is perfectly clear where this is heading if Booking.com wins.

To give you an idea of how craptastic the attorney was for Booking.com, here is a passage where she interrupts Justice Gorsuch and accuses him of not doing the reading for the case:

jberryhill said:

"Then why do you want a bomb and a rocket capable of blowing up the moon?"

"Because I'm entitled to them, and I'd just like to have them

Click to expand...

lol Sir!

you broke it down in the simplest form.

and ironically, it can be seen as same argument that, some of the "anti-quarantine" activists are using.

they say,
they are entitled to be outside
therefore capable of catching covid 19.
yet don't intend bringing this flu bomb home
and it destroys their family

and so, if booking wins,
then it can spread it's wings,
just like corona...
so...you have to keep both contained.


puff puff.....


imo….

This John guy is on point.

jberryhill said:

The argument that "this makes dictionary word domain names potentially more valuable" ignores the fact that it also renders EVERY OTHER DOMAIN NAME CONTAINING THAT DICTIONARY WORD to be potentially worthless.

Click to expand...

And, to be clear, this is not the same thing as a trademark owner obtaining rights in what is otherwise a "dictionary word" for an arbitrary purpose. For example, APPLE is a perfectly fine trademark for computers. That doesn't remove the word "apple" from use for apples, or as a reference to New York City, or the apple of your eye. However, in this context we are talking about the primary meaning of a dictionary word within a domain name being scooped up as an exclusive right in connection with what the dictionary definition of that word is.