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Y'all wanna shoot the moon?

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Do you know how to shoot the moon?

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Rob Monster

Founder of EpikTop Member
Epik Founder
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ICYMI, during October, Epik sold 3 domains above $250,000.

In the interest of helping folks sell more domains for bigger money, I want to share openly what I think works pretty well when responding to retail inquiries.

Here are my two go-to response templates for answering inbound inquiries:

Template #1

Hello <firstname>,

Thanks for the inquiry.

Names of this caliber routinely sell for over $100,000.

We also sometimes do domain leases with a purchase option.

If you have budget, I will do my best to get something done for you.

Happy to advise.

Regards,
Rob




Template #2

Hello <firstname>,

Thanks for the inquiry.

You are probably looking at well into 5 figures USD for this domain.

Alternatively, it is likely possible to do a lease with a purchase option or seller-finance.

Depending on your budget, happy to advise.

Regards,
Rob



Obviously, if you have some specific comment about the domain or about the person inquiring about the prospect, that can be helpful, but usually this is a great way to just see how high is up.

During October, we saw a 2 word domain sell for $253,750. By most standards, this domain was absolutely nothing special. The domain was however strategic to the buyer.

A lot of purchase prospects end up becoming leases and financings, depending on the budget situation of the buyer. The point is to never underestimate how high is up. It is much better to: Shoot the moon!

And now you know!
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
I want to take this thread off topic but if you want to debate such topics, the Ask me Anything thread can be found here. ICYMI, I am very focused on Epik.

Yes, Rob, let's move all non-domain related topics off this thread. Mixing politics with domain topics just confuses people. Besides, it's already too late, the Chineses already bought all the media.
 
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During October, we saw a 2 word domain sell for $253,750. By most standards, this domain was absolutely nothing special. The domain was however strategic to the buyer.

This topic is interesting. Shooting the moon and asking for a xxx,xxx price on a "not so great name". Of course those names might not be disclosed, but to have an idea, what was the approximate appraised value that Estibot/Epik calculated for these examples? Were they registered in other extensions? Were they aged or recently registered?

Thanks.-
 
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The outrage! Yes...



















Anyway, enough poking fun. Let's get to the meat of it. Your initial post seemed to be saying to shoot for the moon on every domain. In fact, you went out of your way to mention on more than one occasion that one of the $250k sales was a two-word domain that was, and I quote, "absolutely nothing special":



So I think it is pretty obvious that you were advocating doing this on a regular basis, regardless of domain quality, because you never know. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that. You kept saying essentially "Why not, you can always fall back to a lease." But then when people called you out on the bad advice, you did some mental gymnastics and walked your bold statement back to essentially:

1. Own good domains.
2. Set the best to make offer, and ask high prices on them.
3. Price the rest.

Or should we not price any of them? That was a bit unclear.





BIN pricing increases sales velocity significantly, this has been proven time and again by marketplaces much larger than yours, such as Sedo and Afternic. Or perhaps that's a conspiracy by the marketplaces to trick sellers into selling cheap, so the marketplaces can make less commission.

I would definitely agree with not BIN pricing your best names, but 90%+ of them should be priced, and not as moonshots. I wrote a blog post analyzing how Mike Mann does it, but clearly you think he doesn't know what he's doing either:



How kind of you to show him the way! He's only the guy that founded BuyDomains and sold it for $80 million. Then waited out his non-compete and built a massive portfolio all over again, at a time when that kind of scale is much harder to achieve. I'm sure he will learn a tremendous amount.

And then there's this gem:





Epik has 380k domains in the marketplace. Assuming a generous 2% sell-through rate, you're seeing what... 7,600 sales a year? Add in your escrow service, MLS domains that sell through you, and then rounding up, I'm guessing you're privy to at most 10k sales a year through your platform. Probably less. Amazing... nobody has access to that much sales data, other than everyone who uses NameBio.

Out of curiosity, why do you rarely check it? I would assume someone who runs a marketplace would want to have his finger on the pulse, not just stay in his own little bubble. Seems a bit shortsighted, but you do you.

We have plenty of end user sales data from Sedo, Uni, DomainMarket, other brokers, and private sellers if that's all you're interested in. None from Epik though, only the elites should have access to that data.



I'm just glad you walked back your sensational advice to something more sensible, even if it was something we all already knew... own good domains and don't sell the best ones cheap. Oh and SSL landers.

Awesome! Not surprised you have founded the hugely helpful database, as you are very analytical and logical. The beauty of logic is that two clear unbiased minds would arrive to the same conclusions with no communication between them.
 
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All that said, I don't get your animosity.
I'm back from 8 days in Dubai. No phone, no laptop.
I've read everything from Nov 19th.
I haven't seen any animosity from @Michael
Only him trying to help people because of your misleading statements.
 
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You want to know what happens when more people shoot the moon? You get this:

upload_2019-12-5_11-16-21.png


That's right -- all boats rise.

So, keep shooting the moon. If you can't close the moonshot, push folks towards leases for the scenario where they can't pony up the big up-front budget for the domains they need.

To be clear, this does not work when there are obvious alternatives. However, when you have the perfect .COM, then you are in the drivers seat to set price. There are no relevant comps. It is about value.

Anyway, ignore the skeptics.

As for this particular domain, it is a .com with a 10 letter brandable SLD. @DanSanchez was just authorized to close that deal.
 
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Anyway, ignore the skeptics.

Skeptics are not the problem ... changing mental picture is the problem. Lots have problems s.a. Omg my browser does not currently recognize any of the dictionary domain names ... one word, T1, T2, T3 .... any.

Using mantras s.a....???
“To see what is in front of one’s nose needs a constant struggle.” - George Orwell
 
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First : Thank you

We need TV Commercials :xf.wink:

Most people don,t know what is a domain name or that they can buy a registered domain

People believe what they see :xf.smile:

Let,s do some TV Commercials (y)
 
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During October, we saw a 2 word domain sell for $253,750. By most standards, this domain was absolutely nothing special. The domain was however strategic to the buyer.
Thats the keyword I can't skip but point out. Though the domain is nothing special to domainer but to the buyer, it was strategic.

Like I always say, at the end who matter most is the buyer.

That is a sweet cool sale.
Indeed a shoot for the MOOOOOOOOOOON:-P:-P:-P:xf.grin::xf.wink::xf.wink:
 
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That is it until the sale occurs.

You will know when you try :).So guys give it as a try with your best names like 10% of your portfolio.
 
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Thanks to the Mods @Mod Team Bravo for moving this domain out of the category of "Promotional" into a more logical category about "Domain Selling".

Looking forward to hearing from more folks about their Moonshot strategies. Although most of our sales are confidential, we'll continue to be transparent in sharing what works!

The free teaching course at DomainGraduate.com does have a section on Shoot the Moon selling strategies. This is mostly suited for Inbound. The course includes a big section on Outbound.
 
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You want to know what happens when more people shoot the moon? You get this:

Show attachment 138104

That's right -- all boats rise.

So, keep shooting the moon. If you can't close the moonshot, push folks towards leases for the scenario where they can't pony up the big up-front budget for the domains they need.

To be clear, this does not work when there are obvious alternatives. However, when you have the perfect .COM, then you are in the drivers seat to set price. There are no relevant comps. It is about value.

Anyway, ignore the skeptics.

As for this particular domain, it is a .com with a 10 letter brandable SLD. @DanSanchez was just authorized to close that deal.

Hi Rob. Good to see that finally the Mods have moved this thread to a more suitable category.

Giving the fact that the buyer, in this comment case, firstly had the 10,000 limit on his head for that particular domain, could you tell us for how much finally DanSanchez was able to close that deal?
Thanks,
 
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Hi Rob. Good to see that finally the Mods have moved this thread to a more suitable category.

Giving the fact that the buyer, in this comment case, firstly had the 10,000 limit on his head for that particular domain, could you tell us for how much finally DanSanchez was able to close that deal?
Thanks,

As for that buyer, he paid $10K with financing. That was his limit. The "shoot the moon" method does quickly allow you to cut to the chase on the buyer's budget. Sometimes it takes a follow up or two.

Also, look out for @DanSanchez. He is setting up an Epik-powered brokerage service for premium domains. The brand will be called NameBrokers.com and integrated with Epik escrow and marketplace.
 
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As for that buyer, he paid $10K with financing. That was his limit. The "shoot the moon" method does quickly allow you to cut to the chase on the buyer's budget. Sometimes it takes a follow up or two.

Also, look out for @DanSanchez. He is setting up an Epik-powered brokerage service for premium domains. The brand will be called NameBrokers.com and integrated with Epik escrow and marketplace.

Thank you for your answer Rob. Yes it makes sense. At least with that high shoot the buyer revealed his limit. Otherwise maybe he would have just played the low ball game, trying to get the domain for $2K.
 
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ICYMI, during October, Epik sold 3 domains above $250,000.

In the interest of helping folks sell more domains for bigger money, I want to share openly what I think works pretty well when responding to retail inquiries.

Here are my two go-to response templates for answering inbound inquiries:

Template #1

Hello <firstname>,

Thanks for the inquiry.

Names of this caliber routinely sell for over $100,000.

We also sometimes do domain leases with a purchase option.

If you have budget, I will do my best to get something done for you.

Happy to advise.

Regards,
Rob




Template #2

Hello <firstname>,

Thanks for the inquiry.

You are probably looking at well into 5 figures USD for this domain.

Alternatively, it is likely possible to do a lease with a purchase option or seller-finance.

Depending on your budget, happy to advise.

Regards,
Rob



Obviously, if you have some specific comment about the domain or about the person inquiring about the prospect, that can be helpful, but usually this is a great way to just see how high is up.

During October, we saw a 2 word domain sell for $253,750. By most standards, this domain was absolutely nothing special. The domain was however strategic to the buyer.

A lot of purchase prospects end up becoming leases and financings, depending on the budget situation of the buyer. The point is to never underestimate how high is up. It is much better to: Shoot the moon!

And now you know!
Thanks Rob! Your advice is appreciated!
 
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"No, I am scared of the moon. I sell cheap to everyone."

I am the only one who vote for it =)

Someone needs to teach me how to dougie :P

 
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"No, I am scared of the moon. I sell cheap to everyone."

I am the only one who vote for it =)

Someone needs to teach me how to dougie :P


That is funny.

If the domain is on Epik, or the inquiry comes through Epik, ask us to help with the response and/or negotiation strategy and will try to advise and help get a deal done as sale or lease.

You are on cc or bcc so you see how it is done.
 
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also, unbelievable that he had to weed through 400,000 names (100,000 deleted)! You'd think that a guy making few million bucks a year could hire someone to automate most parts of the task?

I would not.

He can do it better.
 
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As for NameBio, while I do believe your data set is Swiss cheese, as with Estibot, a dull knife is better than no knife. It is awesome that there is a (free) database of comps from which people can cherry pick.

Where did you find the free bit of NameBio, Rob? I couldn't. But my target market, in common with what I suspect is a very large proportion of domainers, is retail, so Michael's suggestion that his patchy records of wholesale/inter-domainer sales traffic sprinkled with a few retail numbers is meaningful is somewhat smile-inducing.

It seems, as in all forums, there is a minority who wish simply to bring down whoever is posting something useful, as though they deserved the limelight the OP is getting by being the OP. One such on this thread made a final post (to date) claiming they were already following Rob's advice and had been doing so for some considerable time. So much for all the previous nay saying posts from that "contributor".

There is also a widely held supposition on this forum that one cannot be a successful domainer without holding at least several thousand domains.

I have done much research since deciding to give domaining a go. The "art" of pricing a domain prior to contact with a buyer, by any method or mix of methods I have been able to read about or think up so far, is at best nebulous. "Hit and miss" is a tad too generous.

OK, so I'm new to domaining. But that does not imply that I do not understand what domains are or how they work. I built my first web site in 1998 so have come across more than a few in my time.

Of my currently 77 domains for sale, which disregards another 9 I have picked up in passing, as in parts of batches, which I need to either shift cheaply or allow to drop, I have 14 which I would loosely mark at US$20k and up to slightly more than US$30k.

These I intend, so far as I am able given the time it will take to sell each one, to market directly to end users. "Outbounding" is the current fad for tagging the method, I glean from various articles and threads around the web including here on NP. Having many years marketing experience under my belt I still prefer to call it "direct sales". I am still listing the 10k to <20k as "make offer" because of the intention to induce negotiation, allowing myself time to research the "inbound" enquirer (English, inquirer is American, sorry to all you folks from across the pond, we had the language long before you did ;)).

All of this is from straightforward marketing theory and practice. It simply makes sense. The reason for putting a BIN on the domains I consider to be probably <10k is that it will waste too much time selling lower value domains when I could be concentrating on the higher value ones.

Furthermore, as I sell and reinvest the income (at least, part of it) in higher quality domains, I have no intention of loading myself with the administrative nightmare of thousands of the damned things.

So to me and, I hope, many others. Rob Monster has been talking a great deal of sense in this thread. At no time did I read into any of his posts the idea that we should not put any of our domains on, nor even keep the majority of them away from, BIN pricing. Hopefully, we are all adults here and completely capable of selecting from the various sales methods discussed on NP - or did you post on and slag them off for the sake of it, too?

If he made an error it was in using an example of the kind "in the case that" you find somebody to whom a specific domain in your care has a higher value you should go for it. That is how I read it. It was not "find a sucker and flog 'em any crap you have to hand" as at least on commentator managed - deliberately? - to misread it.

I have yet to perceive how domain names differ from any market principles. Each one is unique, there are principles for selling unique goods and services. The variety of possible structures and uses makes them variable in value and desirability between individuals and institutions alike, a property of uniqueness. They are intangible. But that makes little difference beyond removing a logistical problem and introducing a proof of delivery one in its stead. Escrow removes that one anyway.

Just as with any other good or commodity, there are a variety of sales methods, each of which will work sufficiently, even admirably, for some yet not work at all for others. It is for you to decide whether the method articulated in this thread is for you. But it is not for you to decry its use or non-use, let alone make the decision, for others.

Why do I go to the trouble to spell all this out? Because I did not see more than one intelligent question throughout the thread. Lots of pointless and, frankly, baseless slagging off. Pages of it. Absolutely nothing useful said outside of Rob Monster's sales thesis and a supporting post from somebody actually trying it.

Having got that off my chest, I'd like to express sincere thanks to Rob Monster for putting this very sound sales technique into the context of domain names.

Just one morsel to add to the technique, in which I use n as a mathematical variable, 1 to infinity, substitute as appropriate: Do not be the first to state a price. Engage in conversation, ask a ton of questions, but only mention price if the enquirer insists, and then in the nature of "generally domains of this type (however you wish to describe type) usually fetch in the low/high/medium n-figure range" or even better, "I haven't seen one of this type go for less than low/medium/high n-figure in recent years", or something equally vague and move on. Do not dwell upon price at least until the prospect has offered their expectation in the form of a specific figure.

It matters not that the enquiry is from direct contact by you or incoming from your landing page. The one who states a figure first is the loser. For the seller that is disastrous. You either frighten the prospect away (too high) or leave money on the table (too low). Hint: You have no idea what is in the prospect's mind at this point. It is imperative you find out.

But that, of course, is for those who wish to use Rob's method. For the naysayers, kindly neigh your nays elsewhere. I find them boring.
 
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Having got that off my chest, I'd like to express sincere thanks to Rob Monster for putting this very sound sales technique into the context of domain names.

Thanks for the balanced commentary.

From what little I can gather about you, I have no doubt that you will do great in this industry. The consultative sales process with any prospective buyer is part heart and part mind. You seem to have both.

As you rightly state, this technique is not about gouging. This is an acknowledgement of an economic reality in a world of winner take all.

You could say it is Biblical:

"to whom much has been given, much will be required" - Luke 12:48

So, for someone prepared to use their windfall as a force for good, it is quite reasonable for them to place hope in their fellow man who has means to deploy those funds wisely.

So shoot the moon and then use the proceeds to lift up others. I believe there is no greater joy.
 
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There is also a widely held supposition on this forum that one cannot be a successful domainer without holding at least several thousand domains.
You'll come to realize its a numbers game.
You need quantity.
 
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You'll come to realize its a numbers game.
You need quantity.

You certainly need some, that's for sure. But I'd say a few hundred is more than comfortable enough. My own numbers are growing, but that is finite. As I said, I'm new. I didn't walk in with a full portfolio.

If you really understand sales, you are aware it's a sales game. The stocks figures to succeed, for that's what they are, depend upon the way you play the game.
 
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