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.org Why I am bullish on .ORG: Plutocratic guilt!

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Are you going to be buying more .ORG in Q4 2019?

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  • This poll is still running and the standings may change.

Rob Monster

Founder of EpikTop Member
Epik Founder
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A few folks have been asking about why I have recently become more bullish on .ORG. I thought the topic deserves a post, and perhaps some debate.

In short, the reason why I think .ORG will have a healthy after-market in the coming years is because of what some have called "Plutocratic Guilt". It is a term I learned from a fellow Seattleite named Nick Hanauer who probably has a bit of it -- he is really rich and he likes to talk about it, but then he also likes to philosophize about how rich people need to give back more to society. It started with his 2014 TED Talk:


The sad reality of the world is that the rich do keep getting richer and the poor are mostly staying poor and/or getting poorer, while much of the middle class gets obliterated. The GDP per capita data uses an average to mask this trend but the Gini coefficient of inequality clearly shows that income inequality is getting worse.
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As for what to do about, it, my recipe is really simple: sell to rich people. We already do that at Epik, e.g. during October we sold 3 domains above $250K each. However, eventually rich people have enough stuff, and enough businesses. At some point, they start to care a lot more about their "legacy", which is one reason you see elaborate donor recognition walls in high visibility places. More examples here.

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However, if you are really rich, you set up a Foundation e.g. the Gates Foundation, or more recently, the Chan Zuckerburg Initiative, etc. It is some mix of estate planning, philanthropy, tax shelter and (hidden) agenda. Most philanthropic funds are actually in the US and likely that pattern continues for the foreseeable future. Most US philanthropies choose .ORG as their extension.

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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
4L.org sales do not look promising

Median price for 4L.org sales in 2019 = $25

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source: https://shortnames.com/llll/sales#3O

This data is for all sales combined (end users+wholesale) where 99% of the sales were between resellers.

If we take 4L.org sales reported by Namebio* in 2019:
  • Total sales: 308
  • Average price: $853
  • Median price: $249
*Namebio only reported sales above $100, this data is presumably 90% end user sales.
 
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There are no ifs about .org as an investment. The rare categories I mentioned are not available for hand reg mostly.

Is there anyone on NP that can say they have hand registered hundreds of .org names (at prices similar to being promoted) and have made meaningful profit from it?!

I don't care from whom it comes, I don't care if it is registry pushing its .org promo or some hypers pushing sellout of chinese prem 5L .com, I will call BS when I see one.

There is no need for newbies to learn the hard way.

Here is the simple rule of thumb for you:

- If you are new, stay away from everything else and focus on learning .com. Eventually, you might decide to venture into niches, probably subsidized by your .coms or might become a niche investor that has developed exceptionally good understanding of a niche, like new gtlds.
 
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Honestly .. part of my hesitation is that I simply don't have the data to feel confident ruling out .org. I simply made one really good .org sale based on a relatively small number of .org domains .. so despite being hugely profitable if I only look at my .org investments alone, really not enough data to say otherwise.

I'm also similarly hugely profitable in .biz and possibly in .co (not 100% because I had more .co sales and more .co domains/costs) .. lol .. but all that is a result of also getting the best quality of each TLD for very good prices.

There are many many different ways to be profitable in domains .. but unfortunately significantly more ways to lose money overall (which is what happens to most domainers).

It's also because more and more I continue to see just horrible and worthless .com domains on display all over NamePros .. so I'm not as inclined as others to say definitely go for .com's first. Most established TLD's have a quality/cost threshold where long term profits are possible. In all honesty, it's probably a better investment for newcomers to focus on super-discounted one word .co's at $1 or $2 when on promotion then two-word .com's .. I did pretty well with such domains a couple years ago and made at least one $x,xxx .co sale this year, maybe two, and my .co portfolio is significantly smaller today than 3 years ago.

But again .. I'll go one further .. if people are new they should not only not buy .org .. they should also not buy .com ... they should not buy any type of domain until they understand the fundamentals. For me the fundamentals of 2-word .com's are easier to grasp .. but I'm not sure if the same is true for people for whom English is not their first language where there are infinitely more potential mistakes with wrong combinations of multiple words that can't be made with single word non-com's (although indeed they can still get the wrong single words .. lol).
 
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Wow I've read the whole thread and am amazed at some of the .org example shown. 99% of them are meaningless. The first thing I think of when seeing a .org is charity and donation organizations but so far in this thread I've seen nothing remotely like this. I have GiveBuddy in the dot org. If I saw this written down,straight away I think of donation, charity, give to an organisation. Yet I'm told by a few np members it's worthless and to drop it. ( Of course I won't drop it I'll hold it 20 years if necessary) I'm just confused as to why a bunch of 4 letter random words are deemed more valuable than words with actual meaning. I don't get it at all. Now I have that off my chest I can relax and enjoy the rest of the day.
Peace
 
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I'm just confused as to why a bunch of 4 letter random words are deemed more valuable than words with actual meaning.
In my opinion, unless the 4 letters have a memorable combination or are clearly pronounceable .. then indeed you are correct and they aren't more profitable.

4L have liquid value in .com .. but the reason for that defies logic .. and more importantly actually makes them less attractive as investors because the markup percentage is quite a bit lower in some cases (or at least compared to most of my .com acquisitions). I'm pretty sure there is no base liquid value in 4L .org domains.

Let me be clear that while I say there's a possibility money can be made with .org .. I am very sceptical about those chances with 4L .org. But I do like my chances with some of the domains I mentioned further up (see original post for details) ...

...
EventMarketing
MysteryShopper
SecurityAlarms
PhoneReviews
StormDamage
ReduceMyDebts
 
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I only have 3 .org domains. Maybe 4? One of them is emd .org though...

I'm optimistic about .org... but certainly not bullish, as in, I'm not going to buy any more unless they totally make sense, but I do think the great ones will go up in value over time.
 
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That is a severe aspect of those promotions
they are misleading inexperienced people

Adam Dicker once had a domainers "school"
at facebook. he was teaching people which domains are valuable

I registered quite a few based on his ideas
that I dropped later on

Adam didn't make any money out of it
as he wasn't selling his registrar service

He by now is known as a bad guy
 
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JB -- Here we go again with you second-guessing people who are more self-aware than you are with your avatar persona. I suggest let history judge whether or not there is a modicum of philanthropy at work here. Keep in mind that at $7.49 create and $8.88 transfer, Epik is losing money on both, and that is before the cost of payment processing. The only way we make money is when the buyers sell in the after-market. Is that too hard for you to grasp? In other words, I have zero incentive to encourage anyone to register a .ORG that they could not have a reasonable chance to sell in year 1.

whom do you want to fool?

you are earning

1) gaining new customers
who will register other domains as well
2) enhancing the value of epik as a company
3) earning by renewals
 
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wow

I'm impressed

the first of Robs post
were he experiences some
wind

thank you guys
 
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I like .org domains and it's because they do sell. Certainly I follow my instincts and stay within the general purpose of .org. However, I had a recent sale via FastTransfer that was notable because not only was it a .org, but I had just registered it 60 days prior. It sold for $1,xxx and the sale was listed on NameBio.

Anyway, I keep names like UniversalCare dot org, CampaignTrail dot org, and many other .org names that I believe in.

I am not actively looking for .org domains, but I won't be dropping my 3L .org nor my charity or medical .orgs.

I have had .org sell for prices similar to .com. I too am bullish on .org.
 
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I have a few .org now - most I like, some will be dropped. Not actively looking for anymore but if a good one comes into my vision will take an interest....

I have made a first payment on a pure GEO (country.org) agreed a good price for it for both parties and plan to develop a tourism/travel site on it.
 
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Your poll doesn't include keep what I have and hope they sell.
I have several city(small town).org populations around 10k
Also have one word .com and matching .org medical term, never any bites, very common medical term that I personally deal with daily.
Nothing on my wish list as i have never paid much attention to .org
 
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Also, I do get offers. Dictionary word names I have like timely .org get offers almost every month.
 
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It is perhaps a good omen that the most recent NameBio Daily Market report has an .org in first place and two others in the top 10. I was surprised for the first one (5L that did not make sense to me) but on Googling it the potential end user is obvious.

I personally do not plan to seek out short acronyms or last names in the off chance someone needs them, but I will look for dictionary words and two word expressions that mesh nicely with the .org organization sense.

There has been mention that the sell through rate is lower for .org. I have to do the statistics well, but I am not sure that is right. I think if you compare the number sold to the number for sale, the ratio is pretty similar. I think (have not checked carefully) there are fewer very high value sales for reasons noted by others, so for those who sell only at say $4k and up I think it is probably true the sell-through rate is lower.

If anyone brand new to domaining is reading this thread, my advice would be not to go out and register 100 of anything. Rather, spend time educating yourself. I know most will want to have some domains right off but pick carefully a very few to start and get proficient in creating landers, listing them on marketplaces etc. and analysis using NameBio, Dofo and other tools on what sells and what has more competition. Do a detailed analysis (yes an hour or more work!) on each potential domain name especially looking at who would benefit from the domain name (how big that market is) and what competitor domains there are available (uniqueness issue).

Can a couple of .org be part of the domains you start trying? Absolutely in my mind, but pick them carefully after analysis. Also look at all of hand-registration, closeouts, NamePros for sale sections and registrar marketplaces in finding the best way to spend your money. And remember that making money at domains is not sure or fast or easy, so only invest what you can afford to lose.

Sorry I realize that the vast majority of readers are more experienced than me, but the concern expressed, not just in this thread but across many, that we should be careful that new investors carefully consider all aspects is worth emphasizing. Sorry for the bold. Sorry to sort of interrupt a thread on .org to point out some important points about domain investing in general. Canadians say sorry too much :xf.grin:. Sorry about that :xf.wink:.

Bob
 
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As a fellow Canadian .. I'm sorry about @Bob Hawkes being excessively sorry!
 
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It should go without saying that investment in any extension other than .com beyond the advised percentage of the overall portfolio size presents increased hold times, renewal costs, and overall increased investment risk.

When we take real currency and convert into a digital asset, the goal should at all times be to increase the value of the investment. Increased risk should equal increased return.

If there is little to no chance, based on average performance, of the asset appreciating, extra caution should be exercised.

As an alternative investment to .com, expectations for .org should clearly be a long term hold.

Translation: Invest in .org very carefully.
 
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I just dumped nearly 60 .org names this month. The reason, I have had fed up with this once famous TLD .org. There was not a single .org sale I recorded during last three years time.
 
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I just dumped nearly 60 .org names this month. The reason, I have had fed up with this once famous TLD .org. There was not a single .org sale I recorded during last three years time.
Could you imagine outbound for .org? I cant see getting solid sales from calling non-profits.

.org serves its purpose. There are some decent sales, but overall I personally keep only about 3% in .org.

I really like .org but that's not a basis for sound investing.
 
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If you want to have a serious discussion about .ORG that is fine, but this blatantly crosses the self promotion line IMO.

Brad

I agree
it's seems OP can't start a real discussion, without promoting the service somewhere within

it's getting to the point of disrespect, not only to the members, but to the forum as well
also unfair to others, who have to abide by forum rules or have their posts closed or moved.

Don't know why staff doesn't moderate these threads closer.

imo...
 
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There are three factors in play here:

Quality

Quantity

and

Suitability

We all know that you can do better if you have Quality domains, although some people prefer to play the Quantity game by registering thousands of domains and even though those domains might not be of the highest quality, but they still manage to get a few sales due to the laws of probability, although you can only be successful with this method if you sell enough domains to cover the renewal of your very large portfolio, otherwise even if you have some sales, but at the end you might still be taking a loss.

But when it comes to .org there is an additional factor that’s in play which is Suitability which in a way might be the most important factor. If you own the highest quality one word domains but which are not suitable to .org purpose and use then you might be scratching your head wondering why there is no interest in your domains. If you also own thousands of .org domains that are not suitable then the laws of probability that had worked for .com which gave you a few sales are not going to work for you in this case and eventually you are going to end up dropping the thousands of .org domains that you got thinking that no one can be successful with this extension.

If you manage to get all three factors of Quality, Quantity, and Suitability right as only an experienced domainer (like Rob) might be able to do then the .org extension could be a viable choice for some to venture in.

PS: as far as getting a bounty for domain suggestions, I believe that the person who has suggested a domain that has been sold to and end user later on should also get a percentage of the sale (between 10 to 25 percent) in addition to the $15 dollars finders fee that they originally got.

IMO
 
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It's a tough call for me. A fine line between contribution and promotion.

Overall, I feel there are tons of posts, sections, etc, for people to explore. I read what I want here. I leave moderation to the mgmt.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of judging other people's posts and antagonizing them in their thread. Mainly because someone else might benefit where I might not. I dont want to muddy the resource.

Also, I do think NP watches. I think it would be easy to test.

Just my perspective. Not judging anyone.


I love to see proposals
of what might be an interesting topic to be read

I know alreay that epik is the best registrar under the sun
and has a lot to offer


but its getting harder
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