discuss No sales since July, is there a whining fairy to reach out to

Don Gondon said:

Lease in general is very well-proven and may be extremely beneficial for the wide range of businesses which know how to use it. Domain name is just another type of asset where all of the leasing advantages can be applied.

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sure

I missleading idea was:

to lease a $100K USD name for $75 USD

maybe you read it all

I've read it all. To me looks like an example. There is a tool and your own choices about which numbers to use.

And, $75 for a 100K name sounds extreme, but not impossible, although $75 is too funny number for a serious business. Yet I could see $750 for a $1M name as a real story. Like, the owner of a cool domain talked to a startup founder, liked their project and decided to give them a chance with that lease agreement. Why not?

Don Gondon said:

I've read it all. To me looks like an example. There is a tool and your own choices about which numbers to use.

And, $75 for a 100K name sounds extreme, but not impossible, although $75 is too funny number for a serious business. Yet I could see $750 for a $1M name as a real story. Like, the owner of a cool domain talked to a startup founder, liked their project and decided to give them a chance with that lease agreement. Why not?

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my disappointment comes from the fact
that I love the idea renting out my domains

but wasn't able to do so in a consistent and profitable manner by now

here comes Rob and shouts out how easy it is when you use epik
that's just pitching


I love to hear somebody talking about a valid strategy
including

how to convince a prospect who can not afford a name
but wants it cheaply
and basically needs it badly, as we know but he doesn't understand it yet.

so how to not lose him on the fact that the lease is by far to low
but affordable to him
without reducing the implied value of the rented domain name
to him and to others

without reducing the domain value in renting it to the wrong person

without having legal issues

without losing the lessie too soon

how to sell it for the high price to a prospect that already has to full control
without the full payment


how about the loss that actually occurs because the domain is blocked for low cash
while a potent buyer may be around the corner

a low lease prize implements the actual value of a leased object
in relation over time

so how is the time factored into the equation?

all these are unanswered questions with a blatant sale pitch
and you all love him for that

go try it
but please report your failures
and pains to the community
while in the process

frank-germany said:

how to convince a prospect who can not afford a name
but wants it cheaply
and basically needs it badly, as we know but he understand it yet.

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I don't think you need to "convince" anyone, just present them with the option (in a way that is financially fine for you). People know their own circumstances better, and that may lead to a sale in many cases where sale would be impossible with BIN.

Don Gondon said:

I don't think you need to "convince" anyone, just present them with the option (in a way that is financially fine for you). People know their own circumstances better, and that may lead to a sale in many cases where sale would be impossible with BIN.

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you don't think.. ok
have you done it?
how was it going?

but please somebody here who knows?

Don Gondon said:

I don't think you need to "convince" anyone, just present them with the option (in a way that is financially fine for you). People know their own circumstances better, and that may lead to a sale in many cases where sale would be impossible with BIN.

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and thats exactly my problem here


I have the idea..
I think..
that may work...
let's try this..

is a valid approach

Rob didn't do so
but came across as a teacher

2019 I don’t really see a hype fad that we have seen in previous years with 3D printers, chip domains, drones, self driving cars, and the whole crypto run up, which brought a lot of opportunities, and speculation into the space. I haven’t seen a real front running trend that stands out like previous years. Sales are happening for sure, but I feel domains have become very expensive to acquire especially with Huge Domains running up every auction, and taking the profit right out of the buy. It was much easier to build a portfolio back in the day as you could get 5-6 solid names for $100, and now you have to pay $150-$200 for a single roll the dice type domain, and closeouts are auto sniped so good luck there, as Huge Domains was gaming closeouts prior with the godaddy backorder loophole, but you could beat their bot by putting a backorder in 3 seconds before the auction ended to counter the lag.

Given prices being paid today, and the gauntlet of new gtlds released, and more coming unless you have a very aged diverse portfolio, or a war chest, your going to have to put in some serious time grinding to build one one name at a time. Also when your acquiring for higher prices, you have to quote higher prices, which means more rejection from end users.

The downside of this industry is even good names can take many years if ever to sell, there are no guarantees so that is why it’s interesting to see people pay such high multiples simply based on speculation. Not to account that some people are front running domains aka Hof ruining your end user chances before you even overpay for the auction.

I think one of the smartest guys in the industry was Mike Berkens who took a great exit at a good time in his life to enjoy it, otherwise he would probably be pulling his hair out with the crazy low ballers, spammers, misdirected inquiries etc...

Don Gondon said:

I don't think you need to "convince" anyone, just present them with the option (in a way that is financially fine for you). People know their own circumstances better, and that may lead to a sale in many cases where sale would be impossible with BIN.

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here is an example:

I own a golf related xxx.de domain name
I had a sale pending at 6400 € like 2 years ago
but the domain had the exact match as trademark registered for golf items
so the sale was canceled

I was able to take over the trademark
for xxxx €

so now a young guy comes to me and wants the name
including the trademark

he runs the same name in a different extension
a young golfer is trying to make it and try a golf related shop

I told him about all this
and asked him if he wants to lease/rent or buy the domain with down payments

he wants a quote
I ask him for a quote

he gives me 300 €

now how to make him buy the name for xx.xxx €
in offering rent/lease ???

frank-germany said:

my disappointment comes from the fact
that I love the idea renting out my domains

but wasn't able to do so in a consistent and profitable manner by now

here comes Rob and shouts out how easy it is when you use epik
that's just pitching


I love to hear somebody talking about a valid strategy
including

how to convince a prospect who can not afford a name
but wants it cheaply
and basically needs it badly, as we know but he doesn't understand it yet.

so how to not lose him on the fact that the lease is by far to low
but affordable to him
without reducing the implied value of the rented domain name
to him and to others

without reducing the domain value in renting it to the wrong person

without having legal issues

without losing the lessie too soon

how to sell it for the high price to a prospect that already has to full control
without the full payment


how about the loss that actually occurs because the domain is blocked for low cash
while a potent buyer may be around the corner

a low lease prize implements the actual value of a leased object
in relation over time

so how is the time factored into the equation?

all these are unanswered questions with a blatant sale pitch
and you all love him for that

go try it
but please report your failures
and pains to the community
while in the process

Click to expand...

When it comes to leasing I have noticed unless I get a decent down payment it usually ends in default which is ok with me, usually happens right around the time when their credit card expires. My best lease was $5k down payment, and a few $1k payments before default on a $50k potential sale, probably over the course of 3 months, dragged into month 5 at actual point of default. They did offer to buy me out at $30k, or lease at $50K prior to starting, I got $7K, and my name back after 5 months, and bit of aggravation, but it was worth it. For crappy domains all day, no issue leasing them out for no down payment, and low monthly payments, but for high end names, most likely you are going to miss out on that end of the rainbow end user if you are the tied into a low monthly long term lease. This industry is still evolving, I have no idea what happens 5 years out, at this point I am starting to take money off the table, and not put it back into this industry at a equal rate.

wwwweb said:

When it comes to leasing I have noticed unless I get a decent down payment it usually ends in default which is ok with me, usually happens right around the time when their credit card expires. My best lease was $5k down payment, and a few $1k payments before default on a $50k potential sale, probably over the course of 3 months, dragged into month 5 at actual point of default. They did offer to buy me out at $30k, or lease at $50K prior to starting, I got $7K, and my name back after 5 months, and bit of aggravation, but it was worth it. For crappy domains all day, no issue leasing them out for no down payment, and low monthly payments, but for high end names, most likely you are going to miss out on that end of the rainbow end user if you are the tied into a low monthly long term lease. This industry is still evolving, I have no idea what happens 5 years out, at this point I am starting to take money off the table, and not put it back into this industry at a equal rate.

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so you agreed on paying the first 5-month leasing fee upfront?

@frank-germany Lease is not a solution for the problem of buyer who is not willing to pay your price. Leasing is a solution for the problem of buyers who want and

frank-germany said:

and basically needs it badly

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need it badly, and want to secure it for themselves as soon as possible, but can't afford the purchase right now. But they expect some income in the future which is going to allow them to buy out.

And yes, I have done it before – sold a piece of commercial property (a room in an office building) on lease. Buyer asked for it, not my idea. We worked out a solution good for both of us (the total was higher than BIN would be, its a usual way to go with lease agreements).

frank-germany said:

so you agreed on paying the first 5-month leasing fee upfront?

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I believe it was a 2 year lease, which was structured with lower payments on the front end, and increasing as the lease matured. The kicker for me was the $5k down payment that was paid upfront, after that there was no risk. I would not have done the deal without the down payment. The monthly payments started at $1k, and were to accelerate to $3k towards maturity. This was based on a $50k valuation. Let’s face it billion dollar corps, or well funded startups usually buy their names outright, it’s the ones with that big idea, but limited backing, who usually run out of cash, and have to default. I get a lot of inquiries from startups, and I see the term bootstrapping in their comments, or LinkedIn, it usually means no sale, or maybe potential for a lease.

Given how many new startups, and new generation users are, I would never lease high value domains for $100 a month etc, always get a large down payment in case they damage the name, or brand. For crappy domains I will take what I can get, as in most cases they buy it out, or default which is fine either way.

I have to give Epik credit they have been a leader in self appointed leases for low fees for users. If you go to Uniregistry payment plans have to be done thru a broker, and they charge the buyer a $40 a month holding fee, that would kill any small level lease. I believe namesilo does leases also, albeit smaller time periods, otherwise you can go thru escrow, which is a bit more paperwork, and holding fee applies again. So really Epik is the best choice when it comes to cost, and if you want to manage your own lease. It’s not a bad thing if someone pays for a few months, and then defaults, but always try to get a decent down payment, even for low level leases so they don’t default after 1 month.

Don Gondon said:

@frank-germany Lease is not a solution for the problem of buyer who is not willing to pay your price. Leasing is a solution for the problem of buyers who want and

need it badly, and want to secure it for themselves as soon as possible, but can't afford the purchase right now. But they expect some income in the future which is going to allow them to buy out. Given this structure they can get the rights cheap, if they have to bail after a few months.

And yes, I have done it before – sold a piece of commercial property (a room in an office building) on lease. Buyer asked for it, not my idea. We worked out a solution good for both of us (the total was higher than BIN would be, its a usual way to go with lease agreements).

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You touch on a point here, sometimes someone has an idea, and they don’t know how, or when they are going to execute so they attempt to lease for as low as possible to tie up a name. In this case they make it a big amount with small payments spread out over a long period of time, as they usually need a few months to figure things out.

I imagine most leases end in default, but you get the name back so no real harm done, and most users don’t even get a site up, as they find it harder to execute than imagined.

frank-germany said:

here is an example:

I own a golf related xxx.de domain name
I had a sale pending at 6400 € like 2 years ago
but the domain had the exact match as trademark registered for golf items
so the sale was canceled

I was able to take over the trademark
for xxxx €

so now a young guy comes to me and wants the name
including the trademark

he runs the same name in a different extension
a young golfer is trying to make it and try a golf related shop

I told him about all this
and asked him if he wants to lease/rent or buy the domain with down payments

he wants a quote
I ask him for a quote

he gives me 300 €

now how to make him buy the name for xx.xxx €
in offering rent/lease ???

Click to expand...

That isn't good business at all. Full stop.

Maybe the name isn't that great after all.

@frank-germany
Just GOLFER (1 word) is also trademarked in Germany?
Because I have it in .PRO - so it is interesting for me...
Thanks in advance.

Don Gondon said:

Lease in general is very well-proven and may be extremely beneficial for the wide range of businesses which know how to use it. Domain name is just another type of asset where all of the leasing advantages can be applied.

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If it is well proven, then enlighten us. For the portfolio that is reasonably priced in $1500 to $3000 range and normally sells 1% in a year, if all of them add lease option, by how much would sales go up overall and how many of bin sales would be lost to lease? What percentage of leases end without purchase and what is the average time period for those? What is the recommended lease fee as a percentage of the listed price?

Recons.Com said:

For the portfolio that is reasonably priced in $1500 to $3000 range and normally sells 1% in a year, if all of them add lease option, by how much would sales go up overall and how many of bin sales would be lost to lease?

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Lease could hardly be relevant within that price range. Simple installments do the job, people who sell on Dan and SH report sales though installments for the names of this price level quite often.

Don Gondon said:

Lease could hardly be relevant within that price range. Simple installments do the job, people who sell on Dan and SH report sales though installments for the names of this price level quite often.

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Ok, so what prices are leases best for? $10,000+? I have plenty of those too. The same questions then. Enlighten us, please.

Recons.Com said:

if all of them add lease option, by how much would sales go up overall and how many of bin sales would be lost to lease? What percentage of leases end without purchase and what is the average time period for those? What is the recommended lease fee as a percentage of the listed price?

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If these are the questions you want answered,
1. Do you make so many 10K+ sales to discuss it like a statistic? There is no such thing as guaranteed sales at all, the vague "about 1% of a reasonably priced quality portfolio sells per year" leads to questions, is there enough quality, are the names reasonably priced. There is no common denominator here.
2. I don't have any data about domain leases, and I think you are aware of that, so asking this looks like trolling. Escrow.com has, but thats not something they share in the public reports. Epik might have also, but hardly enough to be reliable stats.
3. That is negotiable only, since it depends on the type of business, the economy where the buyer's business operates – their tax regulations and inflation rate, lease duration etc.

Don Gondon said:

If these are the questions you want answered,
1. Do you make so many 10K+ sales to discuss it like a statistic? There is no such thing as guaranteed sales at all, the vague "about 1% of a reasonably priced quality portfolio sells per year" leads to questions, is there enough quality, are the names reasonably priced. There is no common denominator here.
2. I don't have any data about domain leases, and I think you are aware of that, so asking this looks like trolling. Escrow.com has, but thats not something they share in the public reports. Epik might have also, but hardly enough to be reliable stats.
3. That is negotiable only, since it depends on the type of business, the economy where the buyer's business operates – their tax regulations and inflation rate, lease duration etc.

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No one is talking guaranteed sales. The "sell through" is the only working denominator in this industry. It is annual thing and you might have dry spell here and there or sell few in a week. It doesn't have to be my sales to be discussed as stat. It has to be industry-wide.

Escrow doesn't and can't have such data, as they might have sales info, but they don't have clue how many are listed. On the other hand, Epik might have this data, as they know how many xx,xxx priced names are there at their platform and how many are available for lease. They, then, basically could provide analysis showing that lease, basically, increases profitability for owners.

Rob keeps implying it all the time, yet would never back that claim up with any data.

Recons.Com said:

Escrow doesn't and can't have such data, as they might have sales info, but they don't have clue how many are listed.

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In the post above you wrote leases, that kind of data they certainly have. If that was a typo, then of course they don't have such data for listed names.

Don Gondon said:

In the post above you wrote leases, that kind of data they certainly have. If that was a typo, then of course they don't have such data for listed names.

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No typo here. I mean they have data when a deal has been agreed (sale = bin or lease or installment). But they have no clue how many actually were listed at certain price range and/or with certain option (bin, lease, installment) for one to actually close.

Here is another argument against small leases:

- About half of the names I have sold either directly or via Afternic or via brandable marketplace, never made it to an actual website/project/company page stage. They were clearly impulse buy or the buyer never got to it with other priorities or had a change of the heart. Clearly, if he/she had an option to terminate the deal, by stopping payments, he/she would after few months. I would have lost half of my sales over few small payments here and there.

Recons.Com said:

Here is another argument against small leases:

- About half of the names I have sold either directly or via Afternic or via brandable marketplace, never made it to an actual website/project/company page stage. They were clearly impulse buy or the buyer never got to it with other priorities or had a change of the heart. Clearly, if he/she had an option to terminate the deal, by stopping payments, he/she would after few months. I would have lost half of my sales over few small payments here and there.

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exactly this is what I think is the most likely outcome

so if @Rob Monster has different data to change the focus of an industry
please let us know

frank-germany said:

exactly this is what I think is the most likely outcome

so if @Rob Monster has different data to change the focus of an industry
please let us know

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People underestimate the power of crawl, walk, run.

For calibration, Sedo has sell through rate of less than 0.1 percent per year.

When you collect even one lease payment you like have collected enough to cover the renewal fee for the next year or longer from someone who likely was not even in a position to buy.

If you compare domaining to real estate, it is like saying that no homeowner should list their property on AirBnB because they might be less likely to sell it that month. Nonsense.

With leases, it is like dating. Try before you buy.