[Day 11] GoDaddy Seized a Name I Bought Here on NamePros

Day 4 since this domain was taken from my account.

I received a response from [email protected] finally, but it doesn't seem like they read my original inquiry? They're asking me to verify the payment method used to buy this domain on their platform, but obviously I can't do that since I wasn't the person who bought this domain from them. It wasn't my payment method used to purchase the name. I can't verify someone else's banking info.

The agent I initially spoke to on Day 1 said it was very likely I'd get the name back, I just had to email [email protected], but now it seems like that was very incorrect..

I also received a response from Joe here on NamePros via PM which I appreciated the promptness of very much, and that he took the time to read about the situation. It's a great resource to have someone here at NP we can reach out to directly. Part of this email said "If the name was sold on one of our platforms we would eat the loss and return the money."

But the domain was sold on one of their platforms, to somebody possibly using a stolen card/other form of fraudulent payment, then sold again a few times here on NamePros, before it reached me and was taken back.

So instead of asking the initial purchaser of this domain to verify their payment method which could have prevented this, they're asking someone who didn't even make the fraudulent payment to try to verify it weeks later, and then I'm stuck holding the bag while every other party involved either has their money, or the domain name, and I'm stuck without my money and without the name I purchased.

I'm hoping that @Joe Styler can help out still, since as far as I know, the domain name was in fact sold on one of GoDaddy's platforms, and maybe this is a good opportunity to look at their fraud prevention since, clearly, the wrong person is being punished for a fraudulent transaction that GoDaddy accepted on their platform.

I will keep this thread updated, but after today it's not looking too good. I don't have much confidence in buying names that are at GoDaddy, it seems very easy for someone to submit a fraudulent payment to them and take possession of the domain, flip it anytime during the next couple weeks, take the money and run, and whoever is holding the name is the one that gets punished.

I think that can happen at any registrar you use. As I said in my pm to you. I do not know the details of the domain sales but you did not purchase it with us. If there is a bad transaction at any registrar I am aware of they will take the domain back or lock it until that is resoled. It does not matter how many accounts it goes to after the original issue. Otherwise, people could just steal from us and move the domain a few times and keep the money and the domain. That is why any company I am aware of takes the domain or locks it if there is an issue.

As I said you should follow up with the party you purchased the domain name from and the platform you used to purchase the domain to see if there is any recourse. Had you purchased the domain on our platforms, Afternic, GoDaddy auctions, etc we would help you resolve this. We do not have any insight into your purchase as it did not happen with us.

Hey @Joe Styler

The fraudulent payment that caused this domain to be seized was made at GoDaddy, that's why GoDaddy got the chargeback from the bank and it's why you seized the name from me...

It seems strange to take the position that this didn't happen at GoDaddy so GoDaddy isn't responsible at all, yet GoDaddy are seizing the name from me because GoDaddy accepted a fraudulent payment.

I don't see how it can work both ways? Even though I purchased the name on a different platform, the name was originally sold at GoDaddy a couple of weeks prior, which is where the fraud took place. I'm a customer of GoDaddy, and I'm eating a loss due to GoDaddy accepting a fraud payment method from somebody else.

You said if this sale took place at GoDaddy, you guys would eat the loss for accepting a fraud payment, but why does the domain name having changed hands a couple of times change that at all? As you said, "It does not matter how many accounts it goes to after the original issue". The original issue here is that GoDaddy accepted an unverified payment method, and I'm being punished for that.

I'm on the hook for a fraudulent payment that GoDaddy accepted, at the end of the day, right? Just to be clear on that.

What does the seller that sold you the potentially stolen domain name here on NamePros have to say about all this. Have you asked him to refund you your money since he sold you a potentially stolen domain name?

@DNWon

So to reiterate the chain of possession here... as far as I can tell...

Samsquantch sold the name to someone we'll call NamePros User 1, who sold it to NamePros User 2, who sold it to me, within I believe a 2-3 day period.

Both User 1 and User 2 have been helpful and responsive. Since my last update, they volunteered to value the name at $105 and split the loss 3 ways with me, by both of them each sending me a third of that amount via PayPal, which I thought was very kind of them, since neither of them are the ones who made a fraudulent payment, but I appreciate that they recognize that the domain could have just as easily been seized from them instead of me.

It's nice to see the domaining community helping each other out, even when the titans in this industry are trying to wash their hands of any responsability for accepting fraudulent payments and passing the consequences of that on to their customers. I suppose that charging $17 for renewals and $20 for privacy doesn't leave GoDaddy much of a profit margin to work with in cases like this.

PeakDomains.co said:

Both User 1 and User 2 have been helpful and responsive. Since my last update, they volunteered to value the name at $105 and split the loss 3 ways with me, by both of them each sending me a third of that amount via PayPal, which I thought was very kind of them

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Thanks for the info! That is a very nice offer by both NP members and happy to hear they are willing to shoulder some of your loss. Sorry this happened to you! Hope you have a positive outcome!

PeakDomains.co said:

I don't have much confidence in buying names that are at GoDaddy, it seems very easy for someone to submit a fraudulent payment to them and take possession of the domain, flip it anytime during the next couple weeks, take the money and run, and whoever is holding the name is the one that gets punished.

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Unfortunately this is part of the potential reality when it comes to domain names ... it would be great if it wasn't the case, but legally (even in the world outside of domains), if you pay for a stolen product, it does not belong to you .. BUT ...

PeakDomains.co said:

Since my last update, they volunteered to value the name at $105 and split the loss 3 ways with me

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.. as legally the stolen product does not belong to you, that also in turn nullifies and voids your purchase, and as fantastic as it was for USER 1 (the domainer you bought the domain from) to offer you 1/3 of the estimated value, ultimately from a legal perspective he or she owes you the entirety of what you paid for the domain. Then in turn User 2 owes User 1 the entirety of what they paid. Finally User 3 who purchased the domain from GoDaddy then owes User 2 what User 2 paid.

In the end User 3 isn't owed anything because apparently they ultimately didn't pay for anything, although they do owe an explanation, and beyond that if they are non-responsive, since the transaction was done here at @NamePros, the @Support Team can look into the likelihood that someone set up a shadow account and maybe they can see who ultimately tried to pull off this scam .. OR .. who accidentally made a false payment (and get them to pay GD what is owed ASAP or refund User 2 comepletely).

How much is actually owed to GD? For the original purchase for by User 3?

Has the domain been seized and still being held by GD, or has the domain been returned to the original owner (aka User 4 I guess) who in theory did not get paid the money that was supposed to be paid by User 3 to GoDaddy? (I'm guessing the domain was not a handreg? lol)


I hate to keep repeating myself over and over and over again .. but this again is a shinning example of how the automated communications at GoDaddy is a totally sloppy mess spewing out incorrect, inexact and confusing messages to GoDaddy clients. You can pretty up the platform all you want, but if the plumbing is a leaky mess of pipes randomly going off in unknown directions, then the platform is still going to be problematic.

Seriously .. how did @PeakDomains.co get the email that he received? The email was wrong .. the way this payment error was processed and automatically handled was fundamentally wrong .. it's just a mess! Add to that, that apparently it took FOUR DAYS to get a response on what is essentially technically a theft! Like COME ON! Seriously !? FOUR DAYS ????

I'm just so sick of seeing these similar issues over and over again. Admittedly it doesn't stop anything in the end if someone is going to commit a fraudulent payment .. but maybe they picked GoDaddy as the best place to commit fraud because the system is so messed up that the perpetrator is long gone by the time anyone even notices a problem. Heck .. if @PeakDomains had a huge portfolio and didn't see the email that User 3 could have completely gotten away with it. (GoDaddy not immediately calling @PeakDomains.co directly or at least confirming he received the email, is INEXCUSABLE .. PERIOD)

If you're a power user like myself or many others who get dozens of emails a day from GoDaddy, then it's actually likely you completely miss this email! How is it not policy to not CALL a client BEFORE you remove a domain from his account !?!? You combine this sort of hands-too-far-off automation on serious matter and combine it with the fact most of the automation itself is a error filled and bad-logic disastrous mess .. and this is the result.

At the end of the day GoDaddy can't be blamed because the original buyer (user 3) didn't pay or made a fraudulent payment .. but the actual handling (or complete lack of in this case) and failure of automation and messaging is a direct result of the failure that is the foundation of the GoDaddy platform.

Sure @PeakDomains.co might have only lost what is effectively a $105 domain (although $105 is actually A LOT of money to many people here) .. but how much time was wasted in his trying to get to the bottom of this and them trying to unsuccessfully get GoDaddy to even understand the fact they sent @PeakDomains.co the wrong email and with inexcusably confusing language and information. Add to that all the stress and frustration! There is no excuse for it. It's been a problem for YEARS!


What's worse is that as someone (seemingly the only one it feels like sometimes) who actually sees the root of the problems, I completely understand that what I'm asking is an extremely exhaustive and complex undertaking. It's very easy to always say the GoDaddy platform sucks, but the truth of the matter is that GoDaddy is a significantly larger and more complex platform than most other registrars. I completely empathise with the fact that running, maintaining and growing such a vast spectrum of a network of intertwining elements (auctions, parking, domain management, hosting, automated communications and everything else) is extremely complex multi-department spaghettifest of a mess to deal with. But the longer you ignore the root of the problem and continue to build on top of it, it's only going to get worse and worse as time moves on!


And here's the final question to consider ... Did the original buyer whose payment ultimately didn't go through (user 3) even receive any communications about the problematic payment? Does he even know there's a problem? (Because there is nothing criminal about not checking your NamePros messages, or even your emails, for a few days). I'm willing to bet the answer is no (that the automated email was sent to @PeakDomains.co instead of User 3 because the domain was in @PeakDomains.co account at the moment the payment failure notification was sent out). In fact I'm willing to go a step further and say GoDaddy doesn't even know what was sent to who (as proven by the original confusion @PeakDomains.co received from GD support).


Seriously .. who knows what happened here .. maybe user 3 effectively did intentionally commit fraud .. although the fact that so much time has passed and we don't really know everything for sure, is a direct result of the messy bug-filled failure that is the GoDaddy platform. I feel really sorry for you @PeakDomains.co .. first you lose your domain . .then even worse you're left to to figure it all out with missing, confusing., delayed and incorrect information from GoDaddy.


Seriously .. while I completely understand that if everything was handled as it should have been by GoDaddy with timely and accurate information, then I'd say "too bad so sad" and "tough luck" to User 2 (who is the only one who should theoretically lose his money .. although hopefully he could ultimately recover it from User 3). But given the frustration and stress and miscommunications, I'd really hope GoDaddy simply returns the domain the original owner and then pay the original owner what he was originally paid by User 3 on the condition he transfer the domain to @PeakDomains.co (I suppose directly would do, or via User 2 and then User 1).


Or .. if there is no original owner (User 4), and this is about a handreg or an expired auction domain where 100% of the profits (-$7.85) go straight into GoDaddy's pockets, then I'm seriously going to lose my mind! lol


Also .. sorry to User 1 and User 2, whoever you are .. by saying each of you owe the money back to who you sold the domain to, I don't mean to fault you any way and empathise with you just as much as @PeakDomains.co .. as in the end you're just as much a victim of GoDaddy's mess, and possibly deliberate fraud on the part of User 3 as @PeakDomains.co

PS .. @PeakDomains.co .. have you tried clearing your browser cache? (Seems like GD's answer to everything .. lol)

Good luck to everyone on getting this resolved!

It's days and days in between each response from GoDaddy, and they're just pasting the same thing saying I need to verify a payment and asking for my ID. They won't tell me why they need my ID, and I'm not sure why they need my ID to verify a payment that somebody else made from an entirely different account. I wish I could give you an answer, but I can't seem to get one.

The response I got today was exactly the same as the one I got last week, with no clarifications to my questions. Same copy/pasted zero effort response. I literally don't think they're even reading my messages.

They won't tell me which payment is causing issues.

They won't tell me what the amount was.

They won't tell me the steps in getting my name back.

If I didn't know better, this would look exactly like "Hey we're going to take your name without telling you because we want it, we're going to lie and say it was you who deleted it, and there's literally nothing you can do about it" except they have managed to somehow communicate even less than that.

Joe's answers in this thread and via PM and representative of the rest of the support I've gotten from GoDaddy - answering in generalities without taking any time to look into what has happened, let alone to help me understand how I can get my domain name back.

The ONLY communication I received initially was the emails saying I cancelled this domain after they already took it out of my account... and I obviously didn't cancel this domain. Then the first rep I spoke to told me it would be no problem to get the name back, before he familiarized himself with the situation at all...

That seems par for the course with GoDaddy's support, none of the people I've spoken to yet have bothered to familiarize themselves with what's going on, or at least not to respond in a way that indicates they have.

Their M.O. seems to be "I'll just say some random stuff and push this off to someone else to deal with..."

I could understand 3-4 days in between each response while they investigate and prepare a detailed overview of what happened, they're just pasting the same vague and unhelpful response and this is becoming such a nightmare.

Thank you to the people who have reached out in private to tell me that GoDaddy's handling of this has made them nervous and pushed them away from being able to trust GoDaddy. I'm not naive enough to think that GoDaddy gives a single flip about their reputation or that losing a few customers would hurt them at all, because everything they do shows otherwise.

PeakDomains.co said:

It's days and days in between each response from GoDaddy, and they're just pasting the same thing saying I need to verify a payment and asking for my ID. They won't tell me why they need my ID, and I'm not sure why they need my ID to verify a payment that somebody else made from an entirely different account. I wish I could give you an answer, but I can't seem to get one.

The response I got today was exactly the same as the one I got last week, with no clarifications to my questions. Same copy/pasted zero effort response. I literally don't think they're even reading my messages.

They won't tell me which payment is causing issues.

They won't tell me what the amount was.

They won't tell me the steps in getting my name back.

If I didn't know better, this would look exactly like "Hey we're going to take your name without telling you because we want it, we're going to lie and say it was you who deleted it, and there's literally nothing you can do about it" except they have managed to somehow communicate even less than that.

Joe's answers in this thread and via PM and representative of the rest of the support I've gotten from GoDaddy - answering in generalities without taking any time to look into what has happened, let alone to help me understand how I can get my domain name back.

The ONLY communication I received initially was the emails saying I cancelled this domain after they already took it out of my account... and I obviously didn't cancel this domain. Then the first rep I spoke to told me it would be no problem to get the name back, before he familiarized himself with the situation at all...

That seems par for the course with GoDaddy's support, none of the people I've spoken to yet have bothered to familiarize themselves with what's going on, or at least not to respond in a way that indicates they have.

Their M.O. seems to be "I'll just say some random stuff and push this off to someone else to deal with..."

I could understand 3-4 days in between each response while they investigate and prepare a detailed overview of what happened, they're just pasting the same vague and unhelpful response and this is becoming such a nightmare.

Thank you to the people who have reached out in private to tell me that GoDaddy's handling of this has made them nervous and pushed them away from being able to trust GoDaddy. I'm not naive enough to think that GoDaddy gives a single flip about their reputation or that losing a few customers would hurt them at all, because everything they do shows otherwise.

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This situation should make everyone nervous - no due process - at least the UDRP process is "due process". Snatching a name without any reason given is horrible. How about "locking" the domain, sending email to owner as to why it's locked, and then investigating - before simply pulling from one's account.

Trusting your domains at Godaddy is beginning to become "at your own risk".

I think we have been pretty clear in what happened. You were in possession of a stolen domain name. We took it back. It was either stolen from us, or from another customer, but it was still stolen. We won't give you the details about it because it isn't from your account and we are limited to what we can say about other people's accounts, there are privacy and legal concerns.

The bottom line is that according to our terms we can take the domain back if there is an issue with the payment. We did give you a reason for what happened.

When anyone buys a domain there are things they should consider. The marketplace or person selling the domain, the WHOIS history, the price, especially on a liquid domain, etc. There is a certain amount of due diligence you should do when buying a domain, just like any other kind of purchase.

There are legal concerns about even using the terms stolen or fraud etc so we do not use them. I'm not a lawyer so I am not making legal distinctions here, I'm giving my own opinion. Also we are not a court, we don't know if you are the owner of the domain or if you are in cahoots with the original bad actor and we can't make that determination. Not you personally, but as an example. For instance, if someone stole a domain or a credit card to use to buy a domain and then moved it to another account or several accounts with different names, should we not take it back because it went to another account? That would just encourage people to take things that don't belong to them and move it to another account with impunity. We can't allow that. So we take the domain back. This discourages many bad actors from trying it here which makes the domain ecosystem that much safer. We have tried that in the past and leaving the domain is more problematic than taking it, including many times for the person who has the domain in their account. Think stolen domain and being named in a lawsuit as one example.

Disgusting - #boycottgodaddy

@DanSanchez I thought you were already boycotting us I'm not aware of any other major registrar who would allow the domain to stay in the account in this circumstance. This is pretty standard in the industry. Although overall it is extremely rare at GoDaddy or anywhere else, which is why you not hear about it more often.

Joe Styler said:

@DanSanchez I thought you were already boycotting us I'm not aware of any other major registrar who would allow the domain to stay in the account in this circumstance. This is pretty standard in the industry. Although overall it is extremely rare at GoDaddy or anywhere else, which is why you not hear about it more often.

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Thanks Joe. How would one know the following?

1) Why their domain count went from, say, 2 to 1?
2) Why they received an email saying that they deleted a domain from their account (when they didn't)?

Why is your process so mysterious....no one knows what is going on when a domain suddenly vanishes from their account. And, yes, it is reason for concern.

From now on, if I buy a domain from any person no matter how reputable he is I will always transfer out to another registrar so that I don't get punished if the seller does a chargeback or something.

@Joe Styler You may be right that all registrars would do the same and it's in the terms and services of the registrars, but we all know that it's unethical, you cannot deny that. If a lot of people are doing anything illegal or immoral, it doesn't make it right, the reasoning you give is wrong.

Registrars locking or taking away the domains and the account funds of their customers who did absolutely nothing wrong is unethical, and what GoDaddy is doing right now to @PeakDomains.co is stealing his domain just because they don't want to take a loss. To you @Joe Styler and to your company it doesn't matter if your customer takes a loss because of a scammer or because of your company's incapability of handling scams like that, what you care about is just that you don't take a loss.

I have an example of GoDaddy's logic: Someone stole my wallet and escaped so I will take someone else's wallet even though I know that he was not the culprit and I will tell him that until I get my wallet back I won't hand your wallet over to you... you know what will happen to people like that? They will get smacked in the face.

Maybe I missed this but I don't think there is anything @PeakDomains.co can do to resolve this, it's out of his hands.

[Sounds like a nightmarish experience, @PeakDomains.co]

As I'm reading this, one thing that stands out is the time it took GD to identify the domain was fraudulently purchased, to begin with.

It seems like it took a good amount of time, but perhaps this is a standard duration/norm in situations like these...? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ja Kai said:

This situation should make everyone nervous - no due process - at least the UDRP process is "due process". Snatching a name without any reason given is horrible. How about "locking" the domain, sending email to owner as to why it's locked, and then investigating - before simply pulling from one's account.

Trusting your domains at Godaddy is beginning to become "at your own risk".

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Godaddy probably believes its stolen (from them). Well, it wasnt paid for... It was purchased with a bad payment method that failed and all GoDaddy knows is that they lost a domain and got no payment from it. Before that transaction was found to be fraudulent, the original buyer was able to flip the name and it just so happened to flip a couple of more times. It has nothing to do with trusting names at Godaddy and "at your own risk". Its Godaddy protecting its shareholders by mitigating loss.

You would do exactly the same if you were in their shoes. At least one would hope so.

As for us domainers, we have to really know who we are buying names from. This would apply to buyer-1, buyer-2, and to @PeakDomains.co It could happen to any of us. It sort of reminds me of the Frank Abagnale "Catch Me If You Can" movie about the real Frank Abagnale except he did it with bad checks.

Think about it in terms of a used car....

- Someone buys a used car from a used car lot owner (we assume with nefarious intentions as he's not responding to anyone at all).
- That buyer sells the car to buyer-1.
(What he is probably hoping to do is get the car out of his hands because he knows his payment method is bad and he's going to bolt with the cash he makes from the sale to buyer-1.)
- Buyer-1 has no idea the car was purchased with bad intentions and thinks its a normal sale.
- Buyer-1 looks at the car, he likes the car but thinks he can make a little money on it by flipping it so he does just that and sells it to buyer-2. Totally innocent flip sale.
- Buyer-2 then decides he also wants to flip it to another person for a little more money off the top. This is @PeakDomains.co Also a totally innocent flip sale...

** So stop and think about it: you think you own a used car that you like a lot and bought for a decent deal from someone. In reality, you are holding a potentially stolen item but you dont know that yet.

- A couple of mornings later you go out to your driveway and find the car is missing. There is a note on your front door stating that its been repossessed by the owner of the car lot, the rightful owner of that used car. You have no idea why that used car owner is involved, all you know is that you bought that car from "buyer 2".
- The owner of that owes you little to no explanation. He wants his property back, can you blame him? He leaves you a note that he's taken his car back and if you want it you'll have to pay for it with a good payment method.
- **** The used car lot owner has no clue IF you are the person who gave him the bad credit card that allowed that car to be taken off the lot ***

- So now you want to get to the bottom of this and everyone looks suspicious because you know you're clean!
- You ring up "buyer-2" and explain what happened and he says "Gee, I dont know - buyer 1 sold me that car and all seemed OK with that deal, lets ask him where he got it from".
- You get on the horn with buyer-1 and he tells you some guy sold it to him and he thought that it was a legit deal. All he wanted to do was flip it for some extra cash.
- Buyer 2 says the same thing, he thought it was a legit deal and all he wanted to do was flip the car and make some extra cash.
- You believe both buyer-1 and buyer-2 are telling the truth and they probably are.

So, stop and think about this again: You, buyer-1 and buyer-2 were all duped by the guy who bought the car with the bad payment method and sold it to buyer-1.

-You all bought and/or sold stolen property - unknowingly of course.
- The guy who sold the car to buyer 1 is not replying to your calls, not replying to buyer 1's calls and not replying to buyer 2's calls.
- He's likely run off with his money and cant be found.

I hate to say this but unless the person who bought the car from buyer-2 can get in touch with the person who sold the car to buyer-1, then the rightful owner will not give you that car unless he's properly paid for it because........... he wasnt paid for it at all when the first guy used a bad payment method. So its still his car and it still belongs to him and that is where it will stay until this can get sorted out IF it ever does.

I say its unlikely that it will ever be sorted out UNLESS someone can get in touch with the person who sold the domain to buyer-1 and then went silent.

imo the NP member who bought the domain from the scammer should do a chargeback

@Joe Styler

The fact that you can say "I think we have been pretty clear" is absolutely incredible. Is this real life?

No, GoDaddy has not been pretty clear. Let's recap.

1) Domain is taken from my account out of nowhere. No clarity.

2) I get an email saying that I cancelled the domain myself. False information, still no clarity.

3) The first support agent couldn't tell me what happened but said I would likely get the name back after simply sending an email. More false information, still no clarity.

You told me you weren't familiar with what happened but ventured a hypothetical guess. Still no clarity.

You suggested that I could reach out about possibly buying the name back. They've ignored my attempts.

I finally get a response from [email protected] that tells me I need to verify a payment. No clarity - what payment? How much was it? Why do you need my ID to verify a payment I didn't even make? All of my questions ignored.

I wait about a week to finally get the exact same response again, without any clarifications or explanations. No clarity, still. I've gotten zero clarity.

The only information GoDaddy has actually given me has been false. I'm sorry, maybe I'm missing something... where is all of this clarity you speak of?

PeakDomains.co said:

@Joe Styler

The fact that you can say "I think we have been pretty clear" is absolutely incredible. Is this real life?

No, GoDaddy has not been pretty clear. Let's recap.

1) Domain is taken from my account out of nowhere. No clarity.

2) I get an email saying that I cancelled the domain myself. False information, still no clarity.

3) The first support agent couldn't tell me what happened but said I would likely get the name back after simply sending an email. More false information, still no clarity.

You told me you weren't familiar with what happened but ventured a hypothetical guess. Still no clarity.

You suggested that I could reach out about possibly buying the name back. They've ignored my attempts.

I finally get a response from [email protected] that tells me I need to verify a payment. No clarity - what payment? How much was it? Why do you need my ID to verify a payment I didn't even make? All of my questions ignored.

I wait about a week to finally get the exact same response again, without any clarifications or explanations. No clarity, still. I've gotten zero clarity.

The only information GoDaddy was actually given me has been false. I'm sorry, maybe I'm missing something... where is all of this clarity you speak of?

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This is what Joe will not accept/acknowledge - Godaddy is one hot mess - with no clarity ever.

This is happening far too often and we only hear about it with GoDaddy. Happened to me recently...
https://www.namepros.com/threads/bought-stolen-domain-here-on-namepros-just-got-repossessed.1144688/

There is absolutely no excuse for GoDaddy to allow a domain name to be in anyones possession for any length of time if payment fails. Period.

If a domain has been in the possession of a GoDaddy customer over a month, then GoDaddy should not be able to come in later and just repossess a domain.

I don't see GoDaddy being around for long. I have tried but they really are a horrible registrar with a terrible website. NameSilo, Dynadot, Epik and others are much better.

@AGAME .. unfortunately your used car analogy is not really the point here. As I pointed out in my post on Saturday, it's not about if GoDaddy took back the domain or not ... it's about how they did it and how they completely misinformed their client (@PeakDomains.co) and how their system completely failed and potentially the reason for this disaster in the first place.

In this case yes indeed 100%, the person who sold the domain to @PeakDomains.co needs to return 100% of the money back to @PeakDomains.co .. and in turn that person should get 100% of their money back from the person who sold it to them .. who in turn should get 100% of their money back from the ASSUMED thief! Who in theory could also instead just have paid whatever money was owed to GoDaddy.


In the end yes your Used Car Dealership does have right to the domain, but they also can't just barge onto your property and take it from you without explanation and giving you help/information to help assure you that indeed they have rights to the car/domain! So while they do have a right to the car/domain .. they also owe you a CLEAR and TIMELY explanation if they broke into your garage to get it!

In this case not only did GoDaddy fail to do that .. they also completely miscommunicated for a considerable duration until assumedly Joe privately gave @PeakDomains.co some information in private (I'm not sure what).

In fact .. their platform / system is such a pile of automated garbage that we can't even be 100% that indeed the original buyer is even aware they made a bad payment. While unlikely at this point, it theoretically can't even be ruled out that the original buyer never even got the notice of payment failure because of instead of sending the notifications to him, GoDaddy's system likely sent the invoiceless requests for payment to @PeakDomains.co.

Beyond that GoDaddy also impeded @PeakDomains.co ability to promptly take effective action by not just giving him flat out incorrect and untimely information .. but also by actively refusing to help him.

@Joe Styler correctly says that they have no way of theoretically knowing if @PeakDomains.co is in-cahoots with the original buyer .. but there is a social responsibility to also equally be open to the fact @PeakDomains.co might actually be an innocent victim, and while that might not give him rights to the domain, it should go without saying that ALL parties involved ACTIVELY do their best to resolve the situation in a way that all domains *AND* all funds are returned to *EVERYBODY* involved! The other 2 buyers made this genuine effort it seems .. while clearly GoDaddy did not.


GoDaddy has MULTIPLE inexcusable failures here:

1- Their automated system completely failed the situation

2- Their completely failed in accurately notifying @PeakDomains.co of what was going on and even gave him blatantly false and misleading information by saying @PeakDomains.co actively CANCELLED the domain himself.

3- They confused the situation even more by claiming it was because @PeakDomains.co owed GoDaddy money .. again 100% not true!

4- They did not handle any of this in a timely manner.

5- Their customer service did not have the correct information when dealing with @PeakDomains.co

6- They took the domain from @PeakDomains.co without giving him the proper information nor giving him (and the string of other innocent holders of the domain) any assistance in trying re-coop their losses.


Effectively instead of being a responsible corporate entity trying to resolve the situation for everybody (including themselves, which is fine), they simply acted as a 800-pound Frankenstein-gorilla smashing into everything and everyone to get their domain back ... and while most certainly they do have right to the domain .. they refuse to look back at the partially automated and partially non-automated path of destruction and misinformation they made in order to get that domain back. Aside from their ground level support (who can often be equally as frustrated as us), GoDaddy never even acknowledges their total and complete failure of a platform as a whole .. although I'm not sure how it's possible for them to continuously and repeatedly miss my countless detailed posts and emails on the subject . .and I most certainly can't be the only one .. at this point it's deliberate and wilful ignorance on their part!

I completely understand how in some regards @Joe Styler's and @Paul Nicks' hands are tied on the legal front .. but while nobody can say @PeakDomains.co has rights to the domain .. we can say that as a customer of GoDaddy, he at least has the right to be treated with a minimum of respect and been given ACCURATE and TIMELY information and assistance. That's where GoDaddy COMPLETELY and TOTALLY failed him ..this is where a company should look at itself and realise it was a part of the overall problem and an even larger large part of the frustration and harm caused to @PeakDomains.co.

@Joe Styler and @Paul Nicks .. at the very least you owe @PeakDomains.co an apology for how your systems (both automated and otherwise) colossally failed him on MULTIPLE levels.


That's why it's so bad ..
1) The actual tangible failure of GoDaddy's platform and systems .. massively compounded by ...
2) Their refusal to even acknowledge they have a problem and that it is a large source of harm and stress to their clients time and time and time again.

Given how obvious it is and long it's been going on .. there really is no excuse for #1 .. although I do understand that fixing the problem is not an easy task and I do not envy them for that.

HOWEVER .. there is simply NO EXCUSE for #2! It's to the point where it can only be considered wilful and deliberate ignorance!


Anyhow .. as someone who gives GoDaddy a lot of business, I officially apologise to you @PeakDomains.co .. what you went through was a hot mess that really should have .. and more importantly COULD have been handled significantly better!

@Ategy.com "it's not about if GoDaddy took back the domain" I agree with that because as domainers we all feel like a close knit group of folks, we feel a connection to each other even if we havent met in person - even with companies and their reps.

For for the most part we are small close knit group of people who communicate day in and day out BUT the bottom-line is that this is still a business and business rules still apply "ie there should not be any backing out of a deal" in the case of non-paying buyers AND in this case it boils down to stolen property.

All GD knows is someone purchased a domain and then the payment for that domain name was reversed or somehow went bad leaving GD with $0 and someone holding a domain name. If PeakDomains.co would have flipped that domain to someone else then that someone else would have had the domain taken back. Thats GD's process, its probably the same process with any other registrar, its just that GD is huge and so it happens more frequently with them.

Bottom line is that this is a nightmare disaster for PeakDomain.co and its not likely that they'll get that name back or get any details due to legal complications that have been mentioned. I feel badly for all in this mess. Its a learning event for all of us. Domainers need to be more careful and large companies could be more personable.

AGAME said:

@Ategy.com "it's not about if GoDaddy took back the domain" I agree with that because as domainers we all feel like a close knit group of folks, we feel a connection to each other even if we havent met in person - even with companies and their reps.

For for the most part we are small close knit group of people who communicate day in and day out BUT the bottom-line is that this is still a business and business rules still apply "ie there should not be any backing out of a deal" in the case of non-paying buyers AND in this case it boils down to stolen property.

All GD knows is someone purchased a domain and then the payment for that domain name was reversed or somehow went bad leaving GD with $0 and someone holding a domain name. If PeakDomains.co would have flipped that domain to someone else then that someone else would have had the domain taken back. Thats GD's process, its probably the same process with any other registrar, its just that GD is huge and so it happens more frequently with them.

Bottom line is that this is a nightmare disaster for PeakDomain.co and its not likely that they'll get that name back or get any details due to legal complications that have been mentioned. I feel badly for all in this mess. Its a learning event for all of us. Domainers need to be more careful and large companies could be more personable.

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All the registrars should work on a solution for this because I think the current 'solution' encourages the scammers as they got away with their profit and were not harmed in any way, they would do this shit all over again and people with no morals who haven't done this yet just got a new idea for scamming people. When you think about it, it isn't that hard to buy at any marketplace and sell it for a quick profit and then do a chargeback. It doesn't matter if escrow was used because if the domain stays at the same registrar they will take it back from the buyer so the only way buyer can stay safe is by always transferring out the domain.

Mh... This happens way more often than should be the case on GoDaddy. Maybe they're entitled to claw back the name, I don't know, I'm not a lawyer with knowledge about the US law system.

What I do know. If I buy a stolen car and the original owner comes knocking about and takes it without my permission he would also be concidered to be stealing. He may be entitled to the car but he most definitely is not entitled to steal it back. That is a criminal offence.

That being said, according to GD this hardly ever happens so what's the big deal about having a rep informing the domain owner about what happened? I'm sure if this is really just a one-off it's a no-brainer to call the owner and explain things.

Anyway, keep us posted @PeakDomains.co