Epik is redefining Escrow

AGAME said:

.....There is absolutely no reason escrow.com needs a photo of me standing there holding my personal information....t.

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That is news to me and agree it is a negative requirement however I find it odd escrow has never asked me for it. I wonder what it depends on?

AGAME said:

Wow, do you've apparently done your targeted homework - havent you. Its so obvious. I gave you my reasons - now go ahead and tell me I am wrong to want to safeguard my personal information from a company that doesnt respond to people nicely on here - sometimes goes away for weeks and ignores questions they dont like, etc. Haven you read those posts too? Are you going to go around and tell people to stop doing business with Godaddy or Sedo or Undeveloped or others places that allow me to sell a domain name and for them to collect payment and wait for that name to be in the hands of the buyer and then provide me with that buyer's payment? If you dont chastise Godaddy, Sedo, Undeveloped and others then you've certainly got a clear agenda. Apparently I am not the only one who's noticed. And no, I dont have have one domain name registered at Epik at the moment.

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You didn’t tackle my 4 questions either and read the title of the thread, that’s what I’m talking about. I haven’t had issues with sedo, escrow.com. Again, why are they getting the big sales with other options out there?

namemarket said:

That is news to me and agree it is a negative requirement however I find it odd escrow has never asked me for it. I wonder what it depends on?

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I have no idea what the requirements are and why, it definitely seems to be different for each person (at least way back when they decided to enforce KYC). When I asked why, and found out that they actually banked with the same bank as I bank at and told them I was already vetted by my bank, they stopped replying. This was 2 years ago? Its been a while - I have not done business with them since. I also noticed other escrow services were suddenly vanished. Something is not right and I want nothing to do with it.

DapperJane said:

You didn’t tackle my 4 questions either and read the title of the thread, that’s what I’m talking about. I haven’t had issues with sedo, escrow.com. Again, why are they getting the big sales with other options out there?

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And I wont. I dont know who you are but you dont get to sign in a few days ago and demand anything from me. Have fun trolling Epik / Rob Monster posts - its obvious. Bye bye.

AGAME said:

I have no idea what the requirements are and why, it definitely seems to be different for each person (at least way back when they decided to enforce KYC). When I asked why, and found out that they actually banked with the same bank as I bank at and told them I was already vetted by my bank, they stopped replying. This was 2 years ago? Its been a while - I have not done business with them since. I also noticed other escrow services were suddenly vanished. Something is not right and I want nothing to do with it.

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I’m glad you found other options but your issues are your own, not mine.

It’s very simple, I’m not going to limit a buyer on where they can take a domain, I’m not interested in throwing up unnecessary hurdles to get a sale when you don’t need too.

The changes in Whois has reshaped the landscape of domain Industry by a lot, it doesn't matter which registrar the domain is at it makes it easier for the transfer to the buyer to take place inhouse. IMO

DapperJane said:

I’m glad you found other options but your issues are your own, not mine.

It’s very simple, I’m not going to limit a buyer on where they can take a domain, I’m not interested in throwing up unnecessary hurdles to get a sale when you don’t need too.

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My issues ARE my own - and I dealt with them. Apparently you have not dealt with yours yet.

No one even knows who you are - that "you're not going to limit a buyer on where they can take domain...." has zero merit in this discussion. Its quite difficult to even discuss anything with you. You sign up a week ago, jump right into Epik / Rob M posts and are highly critical... You think we were born yesterday? Good bye, I am not responding anymore.

AGAME said:

And I wont. I dont know who you are but you dont get to sign in a few days ago and demand anything from me. Have fun trolling Epik / Rob Monster posts - its obvious. Bye bye.

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Look who's account is closed.

equity78 said:

Look who's account is closed.

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What does auto-closed mean? Was that done by the user or by the NP staff is what I mean...

AGAME said:

What does auto-closed mean? Was that done by the user or by the NP staff is what I mean...

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I believe there is a limit on how many posts new members can make, so it might have been done automatically.

korganian said:

That is a valid point, but the domain being at Epik is the very factor that makes the transaction so fast and secure. A buyer can always just wait 60 days and then transfer the domain anywhere else if they wish.

I have experienced the opposite though. I have had corporate buyers who had all their other business domains at Godaddy decide to transfer all their other domains to Epik after they had such a great experience using Epik to manage the domain they purchased from me.

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The truth is that Rob is quite flexible though. I had one transaction at Epik in which the buyer wanted to transfer to Namecheap immediately. Rob simply override and let him transfer. Cased closed.

You can't find such flexibility elsewhere.

And for those haggling about escrow license. Well, that is just a way to put extra money into the government pocket. It doesn't guarantee anything. Real escrow is about trust and security and Epik has those in abundant. Then the CEO's flexibility and involvement with the domain community is a beautiful extra.

We aren't defending Epik for nothing. We are defending based on experience, and nothing beats good customers experience, accredited or not. Epik already has enough licenses and accreditation to cover all domain transactions, similar to Godaddy.

AGAME said:

What does auto-closed mean? Was that done by the user or by the NP staff is what I mean...

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Regarding the "auto-close" I found this https://www.namepros.com/threads/an...st-be-put-in-place-asap.1093193/#post-6828361

dande said:

The truth is that Rob is quite flexible though. ........... You can't find such flexibility elsewhere..

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Bingo.

DapperJane said:

Which doesn’t change the fact it’s who the big boys use, anybody, even smaller transactions.

You skipped over the other points brought up, care to tackle them?

You think it could help or hurt a sale by giving a buyer only 1 registrar option?

Do you think they should be accredited?

Do you understand the difference between marketplace transaction and an actual escrow?

Would you buy your domains at a registrar that wasn’t accredited?

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On your 'big boys': Good for them. Let them keep using whoever they want.

On your 4 points: Maybe you'd have a point, if you were talking about a company other than Epik. Epik has given me no reason not to trust them, and a # of reasons why I should. They don't seem to need some accreditation to treat their clients decently, honestly.

dande said:

The truth is that Rob is quite flexible though. I had one transaction at Epik in which the buyer wanted to transfer to Namecheap immediately. Rob simply override and let him transfer. Cased closed.

You can't find such flexibility elsewhere.

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When I acquire a Godaddy expired domain and change the Whois info, I'm always asked whether to waive the 60-day lock, so that means Godaddy provides this service too.

dande said:

We aren't defending Epik for nothing. We are defending based on experience, and nothing beats good customers experience, accredited or not.

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Very well said. I too am a very happy customer of Epik.

I would argue Escrow.com is NOT a true escrow company because in most cases, they don't hold the domains. Unlike Escrow.com, Epik Escrow requires both parties to have payment cleared and domain present for transfer.

Licensing is not consumer protection, that is a huge fallacy. In most cases licensing simply creates entry barriers for competitors and limits consumer choice, which is actual consumer protection. Epik Escrow has been able to deliver 100% of the time. I can't say the same about Escrow.com - In fact, I had a period where they failed to send 3 wires consecutively, leaving me with no income for almost 45 days at the beginning of the year. I spent countless hours repeating myself, trying to reach the right person, and chasing phantom wires that could never be located.

As far as having the domain at Epik locked for 60 days post-sale, I have successfully educated my clients about the downsides of inferior registrars like Godaddy/Namecheap/etc and the benefits of having Epik on your side. Currently working on getting ALL my clients to move their best names to Epik. It's our job to ensure our clients have truly secured their assets post-purchase.

DapperJane said:

You think it could help or hurt a sale by giving a buyer only 1 registrar option?

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This is a misleading question .. by having Epik be your first option in no way stops you from using any other option.

I had a recent $xxxx sale (not FullVenue) where I was approached by a broker on behalf of a buyer. The domain in question happened to be at Epik, so I offered the buyer to complete the transaction at Epik where I could offer them a no fee option. They said they were more comfortable with escrow.com (probably something to charge their client extra for .. lol) and I said fine, but it would need to be via Escrow.com's twice as expensive "concierge service", which would needless cost them hundreds of dollars extra. They went ahead with that .. and ironically I ultimately pushed the domain to Escrow.com's Epik account! lol

So in the end the buyer just threw away hundreds of dollars for nothing .. but it didn't change anything for me at all .. I don't understand why this is an issue to you in any way? It doesn't limit our options in any way .. it's simply a great new option that happens to be better than all the others when it comes to instant transactions. "No-fee instant-exchange" "escrow" is simply a nice extra to offer clients .. it's also a nice way to make sure that they pay all fees if they choose to go via somewhere else.

DapperJane said:

Do you understand the difference between marketplace transaction and an actual escrow?

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Maybe a part of the conflict here is in the usage of the not always completely agreed upon exact definition of the term "escrow". For all intents and purposes the instant Domain<>Funds exchange admittedly isn't even "escrow" (from the sellers perspective), since there is no holding period between when you own the domain and when you get your pre-secured funds. But do NOT in any way mistake that as being a bad thing .. because whatever you want to call it, it's actually better than a conventional "escrow", as the instant aspect renders the requirement of a conventional "escrow" effectively obsolete.


However .. admittedly .. where licencing does become an important consideration is with prolonged payment periods, as indeed the licencing does help theoretically protect your assets (although I'm not sure if that's 100% guaranteed) if the holding company ever becomes insolvent.

Although even then I only say that because I'm not really sure what would happen to your domain in the case Epik ever became insolvent in the middle of a payment plan. I'm pretty sure that even if the domain is being held by Epik, it still legally belongs to you (and not Epik) until the transaction is 100% completed .. at which point Epik then only owns the domain for a micro-second as the funds and domain are "simultaneously" exchanged via theoretical Epik ownership. I think legally, Epik: 1) holds the buyer's funds, then simultaneously 2) buys the domain from you, and 2) sells the domain to the buyer (Note the steps are 1, 2, 2 and not 1, 2, 3). If that's the case, then there effectively is really no difference than any other "conventional" Escrow .. with the exception being that it's faster, cheaper and more efficient to go via Epik!
(Hopefully @Rob Monster can confirm/clarify my guesses/assumptions in the above paragraph)

Most important worth noting in the debate is the EXTREMELY INSECURE 24 hour "inspection period" AND "receipt confirmation" at Escrow.com .. where the buyer can cancel the transaction FOR ANY REASON. Also, if you have a non-tech savvy buyer, they might take forever to confirm to Escrow.com that they received the domain or simply go silent before confirming reception of the domain at Escrow.com. Please note however .. that while this has obviously stressed me out during each of my larger sales (until I started insisting on the use of their concierge service), it's NEVER been an actual issue to me, and ALL of my transactions via Escrow.com have completed successfully.

Also a scammer could accept the domain and then simply tell Escrow.com they didn't receive the domain. Unless you are using Escrow.com's DOUBLE-priced concierge service, then as a seller, EVERY transaction is at risk and theoretically NOT secure! Whereas this is a total non-issue if you do an instant ("escrow"/"marketplace") transaction via Epik or any other registrar set up to do the same.

So at the end of the day, particularly with single-payment transactions, going with Epik (or a similarly setup registrar) is infinitely more secure than a non-concierge Escrow.com transaction. An Escrow.com concierge transaction would only be equally secure (not more).

Note that I'm not saying this to belittle Escrow.com ... as demonstrated above with my buyers who preferred to go via Escrow.com, there is a PERCEIVED ILLUSION of extra security going via Escrow.com (even if there isn't one), and that in itself is a huge plus to the domain industry where one of the biggest issues facing domainers, is getting potential buyers to trust us. That fact alone makes having Escrow.com available to us as domainers a great tool and asset.


Epik is really doing something great .. I think for strictly technical reasons, for short or instant transactions, it's actually a better option than Escrow.com .. but that in no way means that I'm not grateful to also having Escrow.com available to us as a useful tool in our domainer arsenal.

Epik is shacking things up .. and if we're lucky that will get Escrow.com to pull up their socks and make improvements of their own .. increased competition is a great thing for us as domainers .. particularly when we have multiple good and viable options with slightly different benefits ... as is the case here!

DomainNameBroker.com said:

We just learned that Epik does not charge escrow fee if transaction gets cancelled.

We used Escrow.com before and were charged full escrow fee when the seller decided to walk away from the transaction. So we lost money.

Epik escrow eliminates this risk.

Take notice!

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I am a bit late to this party. I do appreciate the kind words in this thread.

@DomainNameBroker is correct -- if there is an unwind of a transaction, there is no fee and the buyer's funds are also restored without bank fee.

Also, there is no charge for helping the parties to close the transaction. This sometimes requires some consultation.

We have a couple of exciting upgrades coming for the Escrow area:

1. A new Escrow Dashboard for real-time management of all escrow transactions.

2. API commands for managing escrow transactions programatically.

In terms of payment processing on both buy and sell, we have a broad coverage for payment methods and disbursement methods.

In light of a surge of interest from China, we are working on being able to allow folks to pay in Chinese RMB. We can process HK Dollars efficiently now.

DanSanchez said:

I would argue Escrow.com is NOT a true escrow company because in most cases, they don't hold the domains. Unlike Escrow.com, Epik Escrow requires both parties to have payment cleared and domain present for transfer.

Licensing is not consumer protection, that is a huge fallacy. In most cases licensing simply creates entry barriers for competitors and limits consumer choice, which is actual consumer protection. Epik Escrow has been able to deliver 100% of the time. I can't say the same about Escrow.com - In fact, I had a period where they failed to send 3 wires consecutively, leaving me with no income for almost 45 days at the beginning of the year. I spent countless hours repeating myself, trying to reach the right person, and chasing phantom wires that could never be located.

As far as having the domain at Epik locked for 60 days post-sale, I have successfully educated my clients about the downsides of inferior registrars like Godaddy/Namecheap/etc and the benefits of having Epik on your side. Currently working on getting ALL my clients to move their best names to Epik. It's our job to ensure our clients have truly secured their assets post-purchase.

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On the payment clearing topic, we have been known to close out entire transactions in a matter of less than an hour on a Friday afternoon. If it is urgent, we can make it happen, across time zones, currencies, and languages.

On the 60-day lock topic, we routinely waive this requirement. Many other registrars enforce it to the letter but ICANN does not require it and so we do routinely waive it for domains that are at least 60 days old.

equity78 said:

Look who's account is closed.

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The moderators confirmed the theory that many of us had -- the account was a sock puppet account.

Rob Monster said:

The moderators confirmed the theory that many of us had -- the account was a sock puppet account.

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But it was not mine. I have to stress this point because you kept accusing me falsely that it was. In fact, it was me drawing Eric's attention that got it closed.

I used @epik escrow and it's awesome.

My experience with @epik and @Rob Monster is like using Amazon for shopping.

You want it, they have it.

TCK said:

But it was not mine. I have to stress this point because you kept accusing me falsely that it was. In fact, it was me drawing Eric's attention that got it closed.

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I don't know who the "Dapper Jane" sock puppet was. I did not get any insight from the moderators. Regardless, it is not a secret that I and others here at NamePros take major issues with much of your narratives.

Although I don't doubt your intellect, nor underestimate your writing skills, I do question your intentions. The fact that you rarely get likes on your posts should be a tiny clue that your narratives are not really resonating.

Regardless, I am happy to be dealing with one less anonymous and subversive sock puppet. I doubt that will be the last one as, regrettably, NamePros, along with much of the Internet, has become weaponized.

My countermeasure is simple -- I will be authentic and transparent. If that persona annoys some people, so be it.