discuss SUGGESTED ACTION BEFORE MOVING THREAD TO EXTERNAL DOMAINS...SITE BECAUSE OF ACTIVE (HOT) URL.

Hello,

The reminder I sent is a simple 0 point reminder that is standard when a rule violation is reported. I would've been more than happy to remove the links and move the thread back if you would've requested me to do so. Please keep in mind this is really just a simple reminder at this time in order to avoid any future issues and is standard procedure when issues like these are reported.

I hope this helps.

Amanda said:

Hello,

The reminder I sent is a simple 0 point reminder that is standard when a rule violation is reported. I would've been more than happy to remove the links and move the thread back if you would've requested me to do so. Please keep in mind this is really just a simple reminder at this time in order to avoid any future issues and is standard procedure when issues like these are reported.

I hope this helps.

Click to expand...

Amanda, you are saying beautiful kind words ("I would've been more than happy to remove the links and move the thread back if you would've requested me to do so") but, BUT (unless I missed seeing them) you did NOT tell me that. You're saying this after the fact. Speaking for myself, and probably some other members, we need to know that at the time of the "simple 0 point reminder". Amanda, do you agree?

Also, it seemed (I'm guessing) you assumed I would know to ask you this. If so, I did NOT know this. I know for sure-for sure that if you had said those words to me, I would have gladly jumped on it.

Please consider making it really really easy for members to understand what their options are when faced with your reminders ("friendly" and "simple 0 point"). I suggest that our options are spelled out clearly and precisely, even repeated, so the member "gets" that the options are what member services prefers.

How does all this sound to you? Thank you.

@lightbear, it's almost always intentional, though not necessarily in bad faith--this is, personally, the first time I've seen it happen by accident. It's your responsibility to correctly format your listings; you will receive a similar reminder for any other formatting issue, such as omission of key details that we require. Just as a bank will notify you if you enter the wrong value when depositing a check, we'll notify you if your listing doesn't follow our guidelines.

We do understand that these guidelines can be difficult to follow and that mistakes do happen. We're working to improve this process to make it more foolproof, but this is what we have in the meantime. Since there are so many issues--usually not in bad faith, but not by accident, either--our moderators don't normally have the time to address each individual case differently. The message you receive is a template, the same one that everyone else gets.

Keep in mind that if someone does actually post an external auction in the wrong section, it creates a huge problem: a domain can then be sold in two places to two different people, both with binding contracts. Our priority is to prevent this, and mistakes of that nature do warrant a stern warning, as the consequences can be quite bad. While you may not appreciate the wording of the reminder in this case, it does have the desired effect for most people who are intentionally linking to external listings: they're careful not to do it again.

There is an unlink button on NamePros. You can click within the link, then click this button in the toolbar:

Paul Buonopane said:

@lightbear, it's almost always intentional, though not necessarily in bad faith--this is, personally, the first time I've seen it happen by accident. It's your responsibility to correctly format your listings; you will receive a similar reminder for any other formatting issue, such as omission of key details that we require. Just as a bank will notify you if you enter the wrong value when depositing a check, we'll notify you if your listing doesn't follow our guidelines.

We do understand that these guidelines can be difficult to follow and that mistakes do happen. We're working to improve this process to make it more foolproof, but this is what we have in the meantime. Since there are so many issues--usually not in bad faith, but not by accident, either--our moderators don't normally have the time to address each individual case differently. The message you receive is a template, the same one that everyone else gets.

Keep in mind that if someone does actually post an external auction in the wrong section, it creates a huge problem: a domain can then be sold in two places to two different people, both with binding contracts. Our priority is to prevent this, and mistakes of that nature do warrant a stern warning, as the consequences can be quite bad. While you may not appreciate the wording of the reminder in this case, it does have the desired effect for most people who are intentionally linking to external listings: they're careful not to do it again.

There is an unlink button on NamePros. You can click within the link, then click this button in the toolbar: Show attachment 127463

Click to expand...

Mostly I agree with what you share and I get how this is meant to work.. Thank you for sharing your view so clearly.

I am not on the same page re: what "intentional" means and that's perfectly okay. I am also on a different page re: use of rhetoric and tone in communicating anything. And that's perfectly okay too. That's my reply. Thank you for replying.

Paul Buonopane said:

@lightbear, it's almost always intentional, though not necessarily in bad faith--this is, personally, the first time I've seen it happen by accident. It's your responsibility to correctly format your listings; you will receive a similar reminder for any other formatting issue, such as omission of key details that we require. Just as a bank will notify you if you enter the wrong value when depositing a check, we'll notify you if your listing doesn't follow our guidelines.

We do understand that these guidelines can be difficult to follow and that mistakes do happen. We're working to improve this process to make it more foolproof, but this is what we have in the meantime. Since there are so many issues--usually not in bad faith, but not by accident, either--our moderators don't normally have the time to address each individual case differently. The message you receive is a template, the same one that everyone else gets.

Keep in mind that if someone does actually post an external auction in the wrong section, it creates a huge problem: a domain can then be sold in two places to two different people, both with binding contracts. Our priority is to prevent this, and mistakes of that nature do warrant a stern warning, as the consequences can be quite bad. While you may not appreciate the wording of the reminder in this case, it does have the desired effect for most people who are intentionally linking to external listings: they're careful not to do it again.

There is an unlink button on NamePros. You can click within the link, then click this button in the toolbar: Show attachment 127463

Click to expand...

Two items:
1. I especially liked when I read "We do understand that these guidelines can be difficult to follow and that mistakes do happen. We're working to improve this process to make it more foolproof, but this is what we have in the meantime." Thank you. Good example of empathy, empathizing with the person.

2. Q: Where can I see and try the "unlink button" and does it do the same thing that "remove formatting" does in Gmail? if you know.
Thanks.

Talk about turning a molehill into a mountain.

I think it's a lot of work to have to go through every sales thread to ensure people took time to read and understand the rules or made an honest mistake as it is, so trying to attribute who is violating the rules on purpose and who is doing it by mistake adds a whole extra layer of mind-reading and work. .

Rules work best when they are cut and dry. It seems like you made a mistake and were made aware of that mistake and instead of just saying "Okay, cool, I'll post it again in the right section, thanks for the heads up" you're grasping at straws to make this someone else's problem/fault when you broke a rule and were inconvenienced in the most minor way possible.

Maybe you could have a little extra empathy for the effort the moderation team has to put in? You didn't even put an option in your poll to say that you're wrong in this situation LOL.

Moving a thread with external links to the external sales section doesn't seem heavy-handed or strong-armed at all, it seems perfectly reasonable to me... It seems like you're taking this as a deeply personal attack when the moderation team is just doing their job to keep the forum clean, safe, and fair for everyone?

lightbear said:

Where can I see and try the "unlink button" and does it do the same thing that "remove formatting" does in Gmail? if you know.
Thanks.

Click to expand...

When you're composing a post/message, you will see the following icon above the text box:

To use that icon, you highlight the text that has a link and then tap/click that icon to remove the link.

Another way is to wrap the text with [RAW] and [/RAW] like so:

• [RAW]www.Example.com[/RAW]

Which produces this:

• www.Example.com

Instead of this:

• www.Example.com

We hope that helps.

lightbear said:

Two items:
1. I especially liked when I read "We do understand that these guidelines can be difficult to follow and that mistakes do happen. We're working to improve this process to make it more foolproof, but this is what we have in the meantime." Thank you. Good example of empathy, empathizing with the person.

Click to expand...

All of us do understand that our guidelines are complicated, even if we don't often say it. It's something I deal with on a daily basis as I attempt to design better systems on NamePros for the future. At least several of us are keeping track of usability difficulties that people encounter and are working on improving that behind-the-scenes, though it'll probably be a bit before this particular issue is resolved. We are working on it, though; it's at the top of our priority list. (You may see your thread marked as resolved, but that just means we've taken note of your feedback in our internal tracking and planning system.)

lightbear said:

2. Q: Where can I see and try the "unlink button" and does it do the same thing that "remove formatting" does in Gmail? if you know.
Thanks.

Click to expand...

If you look just above the area where you type your post, you'll see a light-blue toolbar with a bunch of buttons. If you hover over each of them, you'll be given a description. There are two buttons that will probably be of interest to you:

1. Toward the center is a button that looks like a chain with a small X overlapping it. That's the one for removing links.
2. Second from the right is a "Remove Formatting" button. It looks like an italic, underlined, uppercase T with an X over it. That one will most formatting and functions much like the button you're using in Gmail. Edit: I've just been told that "Remove Formatting" won't remove links--our software doesn't consider that to be formatting. It only removes things like bold, italic, font family, and color.

PeakDomains.co said:

Talk about turning a molehill into a mountain.

I think it's a lot of work to have to go through every sales thread to ensure people took time to read and understand the rules or made an honest mistake as it is, so trying to attribute who is violating the rules on purpose and who is doing it by mistake adds a whole extra layer of mind-reading and work. .

Rules work best when they are cut and dry. It seems like you made a mistake and were made aware of that mistake and instead of just saying "Okay, cool, I'll post it again in the right section, thanks for the heads up" you're grasping at straws to make this someone else's problem/fault when you broke a rule and were inconvenienced in the most minor way possible.

Maybe you could have a little extra empathy for the effort the moderation team has to put in? You didn't even put an option in your poll to say that you're wrong in this situation LOL.

Moving a thread with external links to the external sales section doesn't seem heavy-handed or strong-armed at all, it seems perfectly reasonable to me... It seems like you're taking this as a deeply personal attack when the moderation team is just doing their job to keep the forum clean, safe, and fair for everyone?

Click to expand...

This conversation is an important one to have, I believe.

"Talk about turning a molehill into a mountain".

A human mental "trigger" can do that (for me at least, I've never met a human that doesn't experience triggers at times). So, yes, sure, that's what triggers do in the mind and, yes, some of Amanda's language/tone "triggered" me.

For what it worth, here's a quote from Marshall Rosenberg's life work: "Nonviolent Communication (NVC) has been described as a language of compassion, as a tool for positive social change, and as a spiritual practice. NVC gives us the tools and consciousness to understand what triggers us, to take responsibility for our reactions, and to deepen our connection with ourselves and others." See the growing impact of his communication work on the planet.

"I think it's a lot of work to have to go through every sales thread to ensure people took time to read and understand the rules or made an honest mistake as it is, so trying to attribute who is violating the rules on purpose and who is doing it by mistake adds a whole extra layer of mind-reading and work."

ABSOLUTELY. I agree and do know that and I could have done better voicing that. I will do my best to do better in the future.

"Rules work best when they are cut and dry. It seems like you made a mistake and were made aware of that mistake and instead of just saying "Okay, cool, I'll post it again in the right section, thanks for the heads up"
It's wonderful to be able to say "okay cool ....heads up".

Great idea. Sounds like you got that down for yourself. Is so fantastic. You're a role model for people. I do hope to do better with that in the future (which for me depends on quickly processing of a "trigger")

"you're grasping at straws to make this someone else's problem/fault when you broke a rule and were inconvenienced in the most minor way possible".

Whoa! Nope. Not true.. "grasping at straws", "make this someone else's..." is not fact; but it's what you believe, your opinion(a judgment actually). And, I do understand judgments. I make judgments in my life.

"Maybe you could have a little extra empathy for the effort the moderation team has to put in?"

ABSOLUTELY. I always want to be more empathetic. Always. And I fall short at times and your pointing that out to me is appreciated. It hurts to not have not empathized more.

"You didn't even put an option in your poll to say that you're wrong in this situation LOL."

Oops! Another learning. First time with poll and obviously I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out. By the way, do you know how I can delete the poll?

"Moving a thread with external links to the external sales section doesn't seem heavy-handed or strong-armed at all, it seems perfectly reasonable to me..."

I hear that's the issue for you. I get that... For me though, and what I tried to be clear about in the original post, it is NOT the issue at all! It's HOW it was done. And in part the rhetoric, the language (I'm actually in process this week replying to a request from Amanda to wanting to see examples).

Another piece: While Amana wrote this: "I would've been more than happy to remove the links and move the thread back if you would've requested me to do so".

That was the first time I saw that anywhere on NP. That idea is wonderful but it was told to me AFTER the fact, not before. I would like it to be written and told before or at the time of violation (as an option). Please re-read my suggestion for Amanda/Member Services.

"It seems like you're taking this as a deeply personal attack when the moderation team is just doing their job to keep the forum clean, safe, and fair for everyone?"

Yes I did. You may be the very first person I have ever me in my life that has not taken something personally. It's hard to believe but, If true, bravo to you. For me, I'm one of us humans that hasn't gotten there yet. SO, yes, again, I can take in this case I did take some things personally.

Your; "team is just doing their job to keep the forum clean, safe, and fair for everyone?"

YES I agree very much. They do have a not-so-easy job at times. I know that. I joined this community because I saw it seemed to be a container/community with a consciousness and and I wanted to be a part of it as a beginning domainer. Which means I well understand the importance of it being protected (and the rules in place were written to do that).

I also believe that language and rhetoric (including tone) could be upgraded (words matter even for people not making good choices). I believe that how people are spoken to and treated, is important if not more important than business. See: https://www.forbes.com/sites/louise...e-power-of-humanity-in-business/#6a88c80557b8 .

I also believe (observe, actually) that no human- ages 1 day to 130) likes to be judged or to perceive being attacked (which is likely to happen with certain words and tone). It put folks on the defensive and they will use their energy to defend themselves. This also delays things getting done.

Thank you all who read this. There are a lot of words but I had a lot to say. *L*

PS. I'm sure the senior fingers made a few typos or grammar things. Forgive my fingers.

Somewhere I just read:
"Second from the right is a "Remove Formatting" button. It looks like an italic, underlined, uppercase T with an X over it. That one will most formatting and functions much like the button you're using in Gmail. Edit: I've just been told that "Remove Formatting" won't remove links--our software doesn't consider that to be formatting. It only removes things like bold, italic, font family, and color."

Sounds like Remove Formatting is different from Unlink and that I can unlink links with Unlink but NOT with Remove Formatting. Do I have that right?

lightbear said:

Sounds like Remove Formatting is different from Unlink and that I can unlink links with Unlink but NOT with Remove Formatting. Do I have that right?

Click to expand...

Yes, you are right.

If ever you're not sure about formatting, you can always click the top-right icon of each post writing area .. there's a button with what looks like a paper with the corner folded and a small wrench (next to the remove formatting "Tx" button) .. click that button and you'll see the post's raw formatting .. which you can edit .. then when you're done you can click "Post Reply", or you can click the "Use Rich Text Editor" to see what it looks like before posting.

Ategy.com said:

If ever you're not sure about formatting, you can always click the top-right icon of each post writing area .. there's a button with what looks like a paper with the corner folded and a small wrench (next to the remove formatting "Tx" button) .. click that button and you'll see the post's raw formatting .. which you can edit .. then when you're done you can click "Post Reply", or you can click the "Use Rich Text Editor" to see what it looks like before posting.

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Very clear. Very helpful. Here's a big THANK YOU!

@PAUL 11 Hey there, I want to apologize to you for coming off abrasive here in a topic that really wasn't any of my business anyways.

PeakDomains.co said:

@PAUL 11 Hey there, I want to apologize to you for coming off abrasive here in a topic that really wasn't any of my business anyways.

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I really REALLY appreciate your reply. I hear that you didn't feel comfortable with what you wrote and you wanted to be honest about it. In this world now when someone is honest about what they did (they take responsibility), I stand up and salute them and say "bravo"! What I think about you is NOT what you did (actually I forgot about it) but that you rose above for your integrity.