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Bob Hawkes

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NameTalent.com
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I hope that this can be a thread around the issue of professional behaviour on NamePros, including but not limited to, bullying. I would ask that this is a thread about principles and ideas and suggestions related to the issue, and is not the place to rehash what anyone did or did not do.

So, I would like to start off with these points that I hope we can discuss:
  1. I think unintentionally most of us are bullying sometimes on NPs.
  2. I think our community would be better and stronger if we could eliminate bullying.
  3. I think we can eliminate it.
  4. Eliminating it is not as hard as we might think.
  5. Rather than hamper meaningful discussion, removing bullying will make the discussion more valuable.
I know some will immediately disagree with calling it bullying, but please read my next post with an open mind. Others will say, yes there is some bullying but only by a tiny minority. It is not something I am part of the problem in. I am not so sure. Note that I said unintentionally.

The really exciting part is I am totally convinced we can do this! I was not even sure 24 hrs ago. I had a sleepless night and day to think more and interacted with various people. But we can together do this!

Some may be saying, but will this help me sell domain names? Surprisingly, at least long term, I think the answer is yes!

I welcome all NPs members, yes all one million of you, to work with us in doing this. It will be faster, easier and more positive than you probably think. This is not an us and them situation. I absolutely hope everyone will get on board.

Bob
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
Yes actually for me it would be beneficial

Example.....

I think domain.com is worth 10k

New Member = disagree
Means nothing to me

Pro Member or Mike Mann - disagree
Hmm without saying a word they have my attention and it definitely is not negative attention.

Total of 2 disagreements does not tell me that a pro member or Mike Mann disagreed with me.

It's called namepros and the point is to learn from the pros.

Just the other side of the coin.

PS. Imagine how much easier appraisals would be...

Is my domain worth renewing?
Is my domain worth 1K?

Dislike = what a dickhead you are for asking

Downvote = you don't know what you're doing

Disagree = No (straight and simple)

The downvote has already been put in place.
 
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The downvote has already been put in place.

I disagree with that decision.

Now should I downvote you or should I disagree with you?
 
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Is my domain worth renewing?
Is my domain worth 1K?

Dislike = what a dickhead you are for asking

Downvote = you don't know what you're doing

Disagree = No (straight and simple)
All of these are open to interpretation.

In your example, another equally-valid interpretation of "Disagree" is "I disagree with you asking this question" and there could be good reasons associated with that interpretation. For example, "I disagree with you asking this question because I know your domain is at auction and you're just trying to promote it indirectly." It may not be a straightforward "no" to everyone using it and could be interpreted quite differently by different people.

"Downvote" seems to be the most generic.
 
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This is the most relevant page that we have relating to this topic:
To emphasize, the best way to handle situations that are in contrast with those expectations (e.g., bullying) is to report it and not reply to it.

If we could have agreement and compliance with these existing guidelines essentially all problems would be solved and we would, in my opinion, have a far better community.

I continue to not understand how following them interferes with any experienced members ability to effectively give direct advice. Can someone explain it to me?

Bob
 
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All of these are open to interpretation.

In your example, another equally-valid interpretation of "Disagree" is "I disagree with you asking this question" and there could be good reasons associated with that interpretation. For example, "I disagree with you asking this question because I know your domain is at auction and you're just trying to promote it indirectly." It may not be a straightforward "no" to everyone using it and could be interpreted quite differently by different people.

"Downvote" seems to be the most generic.

So I downvoted your post

Somehow I still feel hesitant to do that.

Please don't get upset at me!!!!

I disagree with your post - very non-confrontational.

I'm going to have to live with this downvote button for a while but for a second lets talk about a real conversation.

Hey buddy, I'm going to downvote you!!

Hey bud, I disagree with that!

As a journalism type of site it is about conversation, news etc.

Downvote is still a bit childish, as an adult I agree with the article or I disagree with it.

So on this one we are just going to have to agree to disagree (pardon the pun)
 
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So I downvoted your post

Somehow I still feel hesitant to do that.

Please don't get upset at me!!!!

I disagree with your post - very non-confrontational.

I'm going to have to live with this downvote button for a while but for a second lets talk about a real conversation.

Hey buddy, I'm going to downvote you!!

Hey bud, I disagree with that!

As a journalism type of site it is about conversation, news etc.

Downvote is still a bit childish, as an adult I agree with the article or I disagree with it.

So on this one we are just going to have to agree to disagree (pardon the pun)
Let's consider the example of someone posting about their beloved dog passing away.

Does it feel right to like that post?

If you dislike that post, what message are you conveying?

Would it ever make sense to disagree with that post?
 
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Let's consider the example of someone posting about their beloved dog passing away.

Does it feel right to like that post?

If you dislike that post, what message are you conveying?

Would it ever make sense to disagree with that post?

With that analogy it would not make sense to use the feature at all.

If you downvote the post what are you saying?

Best to not click either in that scenario

Please forgive me @Support Team , I am not arguing, just stating an opposing point of view. I mean no disrespect to the features nor functions of the forum. I hope you understand that.
 
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With that analogy it would not make sense to use the feature at all.

If you downvote the post what are you saying?

Best to not click either in that scenario

Please forgive me @Support Team , I am not arguing, just stating an opposing point of view. I mean no disrespect to the features nor functions of the forum. I hope you understand that.
Disliking the post could mean that you are saddened to hear about the unfortunate news; you dislike that the dog passed away.

No need to apologize. We are trying to find a good solution.
 
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So nothing is simple :xf.eek: I don't know if I like downvote or not.

In the old system I used like to mean agree or congrats/happy for you, and thank mainly when someone had gone to a lot of work, provided key information, provided unique perspective even in cases that I did not agree with finding.

I used dislike sparingly because it seemed so extreme for when I thought a statement was demonstrably untrue or deliberately distorting. The problem was resistance to use it. Even for untrue content I usually would let it pass unless persistent posting of something. Now downvote seems less extreme but also will it become so common it is not a tool to really show a post has issues.

I have no idea what I think re disagree/downvote/dislike.

Bob
 
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TC-VoteBallot (1).jpg



Lets see what members think

Cast your vote here:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/i-dislike-you-whats-your-opinion.1138152/
 
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The topic has come up in the past, and the majority wanted to keep a dislike option:
It doesn't hurt to see if opinion has changed, though.
 
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I dislike :xf.grin: that we have two polls so could we agree to use @MapleDots one that to me seems clearer and @arjun29 take yours down (but thank you for the idea and creating it).
 
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I continue to not understand how following them interferes with any experienced members ability to effectively give direct advice. Can someone explain it to me?
From our perspective, it doesn't, but good intentions (e.g., protecting others) can sometimes come with heated emotional responses. Being respectful and constructive are not always the top priority (e.g., when someone is trying to protect others or win an argument), but we should strive to do both: accomplish our goal and do it without aggression, hostility, and antagonism. We understand it's not an easy ask when emotions are involved.

We're all human, and we're going to make mistakes from time to time. We have a system to help deal with those mistakes, and as long as you try, that system is simply a reminder and guiding tool. If you don't try (or have no interest in trying) to act professionally, then that system will stop you from disrupting the community for long.

It works well, but there is always room for improvement.

("You" is referring to members in general and not anyone specifically.)
 
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i see it all as a psychological experiment,
there is more determination here, than obviously seen
yet, such will, in logic, shouldn't be intimidated or feel bullied, by nature

therefore, i sense exploitation, manipulation and persuasion.

imo...
 
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Reverted.

The best solution is probably to offer more options like you've suggested, but it will take longer to do because we have to make sure that code is stable, capable of handling high usage, does not compromise the security of user data (intentionally or accidentally through programming mistakes), etc.

Thanks for the link.



Let's use the new thread to discuss reactions (e.g., Likes and Dislikes):
 
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....but I am not sure that we need to beat this dead horse further, this issue of bullying when there was none.

How can you say there was no bullying with a straight face!
 
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I disagree with any further censorship on this forum. I believe the report button and the mods do a fantastic job of removing any offensive posts
I think this statement undoubtedly reflects the views of many including me. However, I do feel that we can improve the quality of discussion, and the environment for all, if we all followed the existing NPs statement regarding professional discussion. Personally, I am not advocating for tighter 'censorship' but rather a higher level we would all voluntarily and instinctively follow.

I think the move namepros did to make sure facts are stated was the right one, hopefully everyone can move forward, and not take it so personally
I so agree with this. However, as discussed in another thread when I asked why NPs had no policy about posting untrue content, there are both practical and legalistic reasons that it is difficult to police. But if everyone only posted true information, and when they were not talking facts but giving opinions made that clear, we would have a much better discussion.

If someone is making some wild claim, and I call it out in a skeptical way, am I now bullying? Someone might consider that as bullying.
I would definitely not call that bullying.

I agree with you 100% people should not belittle any sale, a small amount to you might be a great week for another person in a different part of the world.
I am glad that you said that as it is a view that I think some of the highly successful investors sometimes do not appreciate. I mean some do this full time and a $$$ or even low $$$$ sale might not be worth handling. To others, even a low $$$ sale is significant. I think the critical point is are your sales meeting your own goals? My goals are pretty modest: don't lose money, use sales revenue to build slowly portfolio in quality and quantity, do better each year sales wise than the year before, have a sell through rate that is higher than industry average (well my aim was 20% originally, but I see that is hard so adjusted it). For example, one domain I sold in 2019 went for $160. Yes, not much, but my net was 135x my costs on that domain name, and represented a significant amount of my entire investment in domains for the year (and more than I had invested in all domains ever in that TLD). I think we should respect that others have different domain goals, and not try to enforce a one size fits all.

I would like to stress that the thread in question (to the degree this was about any thread, which it was not but rather about a general tone) was so sanitized that I think nothing in it currently is bullying. In fact even some of the removed content was not at that level. For the most part the thread was a hotly debated set of two different viewpoints on an interesting question.

For my part, I think the mods have already done a good job of putting measures in place to ensure that the forum can police itself and weed out any nonconstructive content. People just need to be a little better informed about proper use of the report button (myself included)
I agree 100%. In retrospect, at a certain point simply stepping out and pressing the report button rather than trying to correct something yourself is better. I have learned from this and I think others have, and hope to do better going forward.

A lot of what this thread is about is already covered by NP rules. I have reported a few posts for name-calling when it seemed to be just abusive and baseless, and in most cases mods took action. Overall I think the moderation on NP is very good.
Agreed.

I did want to stress something I said earlier in this thread. I think we are (almost) all guilty of unprofessional conduct at least now and then. For example in the hotly debated thread about renewals I used an example (without giving the name) from one of the participants. I seriously regret doing that, as it was an uncalled for move toward personalization. That is why I feel that we can do this - we can, if we try, change our habits even thought it is not easy.

I learn a lot hanging out with a 6 year old. The most important thing is the importance to forgive and forget. In general most kids don't hold grudges. We could all learn from them. I would like to be on good terms with every single person on NPs. I need to remind myself daily to try to look at contributions on their merits and not on the basis of what that person said in the past about something. It is hard but doable.

Thank you very much for listening to my early morning thoughts, and thanks to all who have contributed to the discussion.

Bob
 
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I wanted to add a footnote to the members that say the mods are doing a very good job.

Hmmm..... yes, but there is room for improvement

I'm not talking about deleting posts that deserve it, but I am talking about posts that may stray off topic or are reported for whatever reason. (Not talking about the current situation)

Sometimes there is really good content and just because it is off topic it gets deleted. That is annoying as heck, one will be in the middle of a conversation and when you come back its all gone.

I had mentioned once before that splitting into two topics was ideal and I used that on a previous forum I ran. Now given I have seen namepros do that a bit as of late and I give kudos to that but there needs to be a lot more topic splitting and less deletion in my opinion.
 
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I wanted to add a footnote to the members that say the mods are doing a very good job.

Hmmm..... yes, but there is room for improvement

I'm not talking about deleting posts that deserve it, but I am talking about posts that may stray off topic or are reported for whatever reason. (Not talking about the current situation)

Sometimes there is really good content and just because it is off topic it gets deleted. That is annoying as heck, one will be in the middle of a conversation and when you come back its all gone.

I had mentioned once before that splitting into two topics was ideal and I used that on a previous forum I ran. Now given I have seen namepros do that a bit as of late and I give kudos to that but there needs to be a lot more topic splitting and less deletion in my opinion.
Agreed! I have had some brilliant nuggets deleted because they were deemed off-topic. ;)
 
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I think we are (almost) all guilty of unprofessional conduct at least now and then.


I am not guilty of your assertion:

I have always been professional when conducting transactions or negotiating one.
and have always maintained a high moral standard, when engaging in the business of domaining.

so, as it relates to domaining, that's the standard of being professional.

now, if in a discussion that is not about us buying or selling to each other, then it's just general topic,

so I can be blunt and straight forward and express opinions in such a way, that makes it hard for you to swallow.
and even if I don't curse at you, it may hurt your feelings, if and when you put your emoticon in it.

if you post something that is contrary or contradictory and you stand behind it with such pomp and stance....
then as a general topic, i have prerogative to dismantle it, with same energy
and have right to use any words in dictionary to get my point across that are not censored by the forum ...however "unkind", that they may resonate in your mind.

the same push to put some concept/statement/claim etc. forward, can be countered with push back
and within that struggle to identify the truths and possible misconceptions
words will have to used to resolve or dissolve the questions or scenarios put forth.

and doing so, doesn't make me a bully.


imo....


\
 
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B.S.

Too much whiny behavior, and sensitive people here lately, why are people unwilling to debate or accept the reality that not all people are diplomats?

Non diplomats do not = bullying which is an overused b.s. Juvenile term.

Adult Forums are supposed to debate opposing views, and if the majority of new members are in agreement to censoring and become a bunch of sensitive children then let children turn this into a playground. The experienced will all leave this to become a kumbaya festival.

There is no reason to post anymore.
 
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I totally agree that we must not let it become where sensitivities are hurt with every disagreement. I don't believe that we need a total kumbaya atmosphere.

I am of the opinion that society has turned to an extreme where every disagreement is considered offensive. We shouldn't let an open forum become a place where disagreement or debate is offensive or considered insensitive. What we are seeing in the real world in regards to this subject is ridiculous and out of control.

However, what I have seen recently here on NP's, and also in past cases, is BULLYING. I have seen the line crossed. Repeated put downs and subtle and/or subliminal messages meant to make someone inferior is BULLYING. I have seen that. You can agree or disagree, I take no offense.

There is a balance. We don't need one extreme to the other extreme. You can debate and disagree without bullying. You can have heated and passionate discussions without bullying. It can be done and should be done.
 
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