discuss We Must and Can Fix This

Not much you can do. That's why I don't post much anymore.
You can cure a disease but you can't fix a habit/personality.

This place is not like it used to 15 years ago.
People here just spend the time to google for information then post them here to argue that the other one is wrong.
The place is flooded with new lazy members who will ask the same questions and post crap names and rush people to appraise.

Let pray and may be someday good things will happen.

As a kid I grew up and dealt with bullying, as I got older and bigger I looked out for kids who got bullied, some of them kids with Down Syndrome. What's going on here on the whole is not bullying, it's an insult to real victims of bullying (some who have taken their lives).

" What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach."

Some people are diametrically opposed to the investment strategies of others.

To be fair I am not sure some people have an investment strategy, (their choice) Namepros is their social club.

I have been doing this a long time, dealt with trolls, true trolls when I started the .tv sub forum 14 years ago, (this was a whole different place back then). Like some guys told me, Raymond if I disagree with someone I am coming at them hard, especially if I think they are promoting misinformation, let them ban me, I will be back with a new email, ip adress and account.

The mods do a good job in cleaning things up and there are some rules I think every member has to learn it might help them not engage in disrespectful conversation and just report a thread, one example Rule 2.6

Not too long ago, we did add a rule that prohibits threads from being created solely for that purpose:

• Rule 2.6. Do not create a thread solely for the purpose of reporting a sale unless at least the item’s full name (e.g., domain name or business name) and exact sale price are shared within it. The exception to this rule is showcase threads where everyone can share partial details about their sales (e.g., “the name starts with insurance and sold for $XX,XXX”) in the same thread (not limited to 1 showcase thread but rule 1.13 applies).

That way those who think someone posting a "Look at me thread" can let the mods handle it.

Lord Antares:
At the risk of getting deleted or censured, what happened was that someone came along and posted that he had sold a domain of his in the .live extension for so much money that it had paid for the renewal fee on ALL of his .live domains and some of his .life domains, going out six years. The facts came out slowly, over the course of the thread because after making that post the OP stated that he had to go on vacation, and disappeared.

While OP was not posting, various people came in and debated about whether it was a good thing or not to pay your renewal fees out for years, and debated over whether the OP had actually paid his fees out on all of his .live domains or some, and also debated as to whether OP had really actually made any sales at all, because OP had never supplied any proof of any sales now or before. During the course of discussion the issue of whether or not the one defending one side of the argument had ever sold a domain name was brought out as well, and this became an issue too in that the defender of that perspective claimed that someone had incorrectly stated that he had sold no domains, when in reality he had made two small three figure sales, and also was claiming, without proof that he had sold some others too.

I think that's about the summary of it.

xynames said:

Lord Antares:
At the risk of getting deleted or censured, what happened was that someone came along and posted that he had sold a domain of his in the .live extension for so much money that it had paid for the renewal fee on ALL of his .live domains and some of his .life domains, going out six years. The facts came out slowly, over the course of the thread because after making that post the OP stated that he had to go on vacation, and disappeared.

While OP was not posting, various people came in and debated about whether it was a good thing or not to pay your renewal fees out for years, and debated over whether the OP had actually paid his fees out on all of his .live domains or some, and also debated as to whether OP had really actually made any sales at all, because OP had never supplied any proof of any sales now or before. During the course of discussion the issue of whether or not the one defending one side of the argument had ever sold a domain name was brought out as well, and this became an issue as well as that the defender of that perspective claimed that someone had incorrectly stated that he had sold no domains, when in reality he had made two small three figure sales, and also was claiming, without proof that he had sold some others too.

I think that's about the summary of it.

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And @Eric Lyon and @Paul Buonopane did a good job by adding rule 2.6 it probably could have shut it down if there was going to be no real information.

Not too long ago, we did add a rule that prohibits threads from being created solely for that purpose:

• Rule 2.6. Do not create a thread solely for the purpose of reporting a sale unless at least the item’s full name (e.g., domain name or business name) and exact sale price are shared within it. The exception to this rule is showcase threads where everyone can share partial details about their sales (e.g., “the name starts with insurance and sold for $XX,XXX”) in the same thread (not limited to 1 showcase thread but rule 1.13 applies).

johnn said:

People here just spend the time to google for information then post

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Right, what I object to are posts that state "in theory" how things should be or must be.

At least, I object when such posts contradict my real world experience.

But then the poster comes back, again arguing based on theory, as to why he is right.

Etc. etc.

xynames said:

Lord Antares:
At the risk of getting deleted or censured, what happened was that someone came along and posted that he had sold a domain of his in the .live extension for so much money that it had paid for the renewal fee on ALL of his .live domains and some of his .life domains, going out six years. The facts came out slowly, over the course of the thread because after making that post the OP stated that he had to go on vacation, and disappeared.

While OP was not posting, various people came in and debated about whether it was a good thing or not to pay your renewal fees out for years, and debated over whether the OP had actually paid his fees out on all of his .live domains or some, and also debated as to whether OP had really actually made any sales at all, because OP had never supplied any proof of any sales now or before. During the course of discussion the issue of whether or not the one defending one side of the argument had ever sold a domain name was brought out as well, and this became an issue as well as that the defender of that perspective claimed that someone had incorrectly stated that he had sold no domains, when in reality he had made two small three figure sales, and also was claiming, without proof that he had sold some others too.

I think that's about the summary of it.

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Lol.

It really does remind me of the .best thread.

Yes.

Well anyway, this thread here is harmless. Those of us who feel that it is unnecessary have spoken our peace.

Let the show go on!

Liberals....

@Bob Hawkes, I can appreciate what you're trying to do here. I know it comes from a good place.

For my part, I think the mods have already done a good job of putting measures in place to ensure that the forum can police itself and weed out any nonconstructive content. People just need to be a little better informed about proper use of the report button (myself included).

Personally, if I have to accept facing the odd harsh criticism in order to have access to the opinions of experienced members who speak knowledgeably and to the point (if bluntly), I'm more than okay with that.

There's absolutely a social hierarchy of sorts on this forum, and there should be. Speaking with authority and implied knowledge about a topic is something that needs to be earned by taking your lumps, putting in the time to learn with humility, and eventually growing into a domain investor who has experienced some success.

The above is true of any industry. Those who try to shirk this process get put in their place. Is that bullying? I prefer to think of it as Darwinism at its best.

Oh, and I could get behind the agree/disagree buttons. Although sometimes I really do just dislike what someone has said!

I have a broad question on this topic (which I'm not saying holds any weight to anyone's arguments as I'm very lost in this whole debacle).

If I say that somebody is making me feel like the victim of bullying, does that make it bullying?

btw: I have a very close family member with autism and I've seen what bullying looks like in many different forms and from many different angles.

That's a terrible idea - not bullying
That's a terrible idea, why don't you learn to read. - bullying, rude, anti-social, whatever you want to call it.

That's what the mute / ignore feature is for.

mr-x said:

That's a terrible idea - not bullying
That's a terrible idea, why don't you learn to read. - bullying, rude, anti-social, whatever you want to call it.

That's what the mute / ignore feature is for.

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Actually that one should be reported to the mods.

Josh R said:

I have a broad question on this topic (which I'm not saying holds any weight to anyone's arguments as I'm very lost in this whole debacle).

If I say that somebody is making me feel like the victim of bullying, does that make it bullying?

btw: I have a very close family member with autism and I've seen what bullying looks like in many different forms and from many different angles.

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It is an interesting question you pose. My opinion would be that alone does not mean it is bullying if a reasonable person would have not labelled the action bullying. That said, I think in HR related cases some consideration is given to the impact on the (alleged) victim, I believe (possibly incorrectly).

Bob

So some of those who have responded that everything is fine and as it should be and no change is in order, to help me understand your thinking, could you please, if you have the time, help me see how some of the possible changes, mentioned here or elsewhere recently, would interfere with your ability to clearly offer wisdom based on your expertise in the business.

1. Change like/dislike to agree/disagree to make it easier to express that you do not agree
2. Factually untrue statements should not be posted or reposted (and corrected if later found to be untrue)
3. Comments should deal with the ideas being discussed and not personalities expressing views
4. When you are giving your opinion, as opposed to stating a clearly proven fact, start with "In my opinion...." This doesn't change at all what you say, other than that it is your opinion. Of course ideally you would strengthen that opinion by also saying what it is based on (e.g. 'I sold 25 brandable last year, and based on what sold I would say blah blah...")
5. We should not ascribe motives to others, since we cannot read minds.
6. While we can vociferously argue an idea, conclusion, suggestion etc., that should not stray into commenting on characteristics of the person presenting the idea other than relevant, factual points (e.g. he has only been in NPs for 3 days is a factual and possibly relevant point! ).
7. Those who are in no way involved in discussing a point should not be introduced into it ('this is a crazy idea like those promoted all the time by...")
8. We should not call people demeaning names (other than their name or username, if they selected a demeaning one what can we do? ).
9. We should not misrepresent what someone else has said. Best is to use the quote feature so the reader can see what was said and context. We should not selectively quote with intention to deliberately change meaning.

I am really trying to understand how these, for example, limit your ability to helpfully contribute to the domain learning of all. I am not posting this to be argumentative, and really honestly would appreciate guidance to help me understand the other view.

Joe Nichols said:

There's absolutely a social hierarchy of sorts on this forum, and there should be

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I don't disagree with this that you said @Joe Nichols and nothing I am hoping our community might change infringes on that, in my opinion, other than responsibility for basic professionalism and truthfulness.

Anyway, thanks in advance, even if you have time to just comment on 1 or 2, to explain how that limits the wisdom of social hierarchy being effectively disseminated.

Have a good night everyone.

Bob

Changing the like / dislike to agree / disagree is a good idea. Sounds nicer. I think the mods do a pretty good job. Mute or reporting should be enough.

Bob Hawkes said:

So some of those who have responded that everything is fine and as it should be and no change is in order, to help me understand your thinking, could you please, if you have the time, help me see how some of the possible changes, mentioned here or elsewhere recently, would interfere with your ability to clearly offer wisdom based on your expertise in the business.

1. Change like/dislike to agree/disagree to make it easier to express that you do not agree
2. Factually untrue statements should not be posted or reposted (and corrected if later found to be untrue)
3. Comments should deal with the ideas being discussed and not personalities expressing views
4. When you are giving your opinion, as opposed to stating a clearly proven fact, start with "In my opinion...." This doesn't change at all what you say, other than that it is your opinion. Of course ideally you would strengthen that opinion by also saying what it is based on (e.g. 'I sold 25 brandable last year, and based on what sold I would say blah blah...")
5. We should not ascribe motives to others, since we cannot read minds.
6. While we can vociferously argue an idea, conclusion, suggestion etc., that should not stray into commenting on characteristics of the person presenting the idea other than relevant, factual points (e.g. he has only been in NPs for 3 days is a factual and possibly relevant point!).
7. Those who are in no way involved in discussing a point should not be introduced into it ('this is a crazy idea like those promoted all the time by...")
8. We should not call people demeaning names (other than their name or username, if they selected a demeaning one what can we do? ).
9. We should not misrepresent what someone else has said. Best is to use the quote feature so the reader can see what was said and context. We should not selectively quote with intention to deliberately change meaning.

I am really trying to understand how these, for example, limit your ability to helpfully contribute to the domain learning of all. I am not posting this to be argumentative, and really honestly would appreciate guidance to help me understand the other view.


I don't disagree with this that you said @Joe Nichols and nothing I am hoping our community might change infringes on that, in my opinion, other than responsibility for basic professionalism and truthfulness.

Anyway, thanks in advance, even if you have time to just comment on 1 or 2, to explain how that limits the wisdom of social hierarchy being effectively disseminated.

Have a good night everyone.

Bob

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mr-x said:

Mute or reporting should be enough.

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I like agree/disagree a lot too.
I know that many agree with you and I do see the logic of ignore (is mute something different?) and reporting. Maybe it is just me, but I really hate when untrue things about anything or anyone are not challenged. The down side of ignore is that many in the community just see the incorrect thing. Reporting is an option, and one that should probably be used more often. For example throughout the escalation of personalization, and since, I have not reported a single post. That is my bad I guess. The mods quickly stepped in and deleted on their own (or maybe someone else reported) the posts with the most personalized, demeaning, rude and slanted comments since they clearly broke existing NPs rules. I would prefer a system where there was enough guidance that things just worked right most of the time so not many reports are needed. NPs do not per se have a rule about untrue content other than people are responsible for what they post.
Thanks for replying.
Bob

Bob Hawkes said:

I like agree/disagree a lot too.
I know that many agree with you and I do see the logic of ignore (is mute something different?) and reporting. Maybe it is just me, but I really hate when untrue things about anything or anyone are not challenged. The down side of ignore is that many in the community just see the incorrect thing. Reporting is an option, and one that should probably be used more often. I would prefer a system where there was enough guidance that things just worked right most of the time so not many reports are needed. NPs do not per se have a rule about untrue content other than people are responsible for what they post.
Thanks for replying.
Bob

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Posting corrections without quoting the original error / lie is a good tactic if the thread isn't to busy. It's hard not replying to someone who is incorrect or lying.

We've seen people with good reputations pump tld's like .mobi, companies bragging about paying six figures for a three word domain, promoting market places without disclosing compensation, etc. People are rightfully suspicious about vague claims.

It's easy for egos to take over a thread claiming some success and pretty soon even people pointing out the obvious case for renewing to avoid reg-fee increases are getting attacked.

I think a better method would to require people to be honest and transparent. If you sold a domain but can't speak b/c of a NDA, then don't talk about it. If you sold a domain and made enough to cover your cost for a year, tell us the domain.

Transparency would solve more than more rules imo.

mr-x said:

I think a better method would to require people to be honest and transparent. If you sold a domain but can't speak b/c of a NDA, then don't talk about it. If you sold a domain and made enough to cover your cost for a year, tell us the domain.

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I think if universally applied this has a lot of merit actually.

mr-x said:

promoting market places without disclosing compensation, etc.

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I totally agree there should be some disclosure standards. I could not agree more. I think it is always better to err on side of too much disclosure, so even if you are appraising a domain but have a potentially competitor you should at least generally mention that. But particularly if compensated re a service.
Bob

equity78 said:

As a kid I grew up and dealt with bullying, as I got older and bigger I looked out for kids who got bullied, some of them kids with Down Syndrome. What's going on here on the whole is not bullying, it's an insult to real victims of bullying (some who have taken their lives).

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I agree (well mainly). I think what happens here is bullying by all the definitions that I searched, but I agree that it is not in the class of what many young people deal with. I too was bullied as a youth but not at level of the tragic cases that we hear about. While I see the argument to not call it bullying, because it is so different, I also see the importance of reducing it to the degree we can, because bullying anywhere sort of gives it more license other places. I think we should not minimize potential impacts even here though. I'm not talking me. I'm a strong person at a happy place in my life that can take the abuse from a few here if I decide to, or walk away and be totally happy doing other things with my time if I choose not to.

Thank you for all your post. I mainly just wanted to thank you for an obviously heartfelt opinion. I always learn from what you write.

Bob

Why am I so optimistic we could make the discussions more professional and more relevant, without losing anything that is genuine and important? Why do I think that we could do it relatively easily and quickly? I guess the children made me believe it. I know I write too much, but this will be the last for tonight.

Let me relate the pink shirt story which all started in the Annapolis Valley of NS in Canada in 2007 one high school in a small town. One day a grade 9 student at that school was being teased and bullied because he had on a pink shirt. Two grade 12 students, David Shepherd and Travis Price, stepped in and stopped the bullies. But they did something else. They met that night and said we want to do something to change the culture that says it is alright to bully, demean and make fun of others. If we all wear pink they can't bully us all. The next day they came to school in pink shirts, and then went out and bought 50 pink shirts for their friends. Within a week every single student at the school wore a pink shirt. By the next week every school in the whole province were wearing pink speaking up for acceptance of differences and against bullying. Soon it was everywhere in Canada. I live more than 6000 km from that school in Nova Scotia, but my grandchildren and every single staff member and student at the school wore pink on a day last month. Now around the world anti-bullying of all types is represented by Pink Shirt Day. Two students at a little school in a town no one heard of played a major role in changing the culture across Canada and to some degree around the world.

Now we don't have a problem at all comparable to that. I understand why some say don't even call it bullying. But we have the huge advantage that it is so easy to change. Some say we are used to how we say things, it would be hard to change. If David and Travis could change the culture in a whole country, surely we can do better being professional, and yes kind, in how we treat others at NPs.

I am so lucky to live very close to our grandchildren and we look after them one or two afternoons after school. We all live in a relatively high density area, mainly apartments, no backyards, so after school the children play in a playground attached to the school before we go home. Many many children. We have probably spend a few hundred hours in total in that playground. I just realized something this week. Do you know how many cases of bullying I witnessed in those several hundred hours? 0. I exaggerate not. Zero. Children are different ages, it is very ethnically mixed with many recent immigrant families, many different languages, many religious backgrounds, very different socioeconomic backgrounds, different ages, abilities and special needs. But those kids, whose brains are more self-centred than they will be when fully developed, despite that, all play in one very full space, without bullying. It is amazing.

How is it that we can't match what those kids achieved?

You might say what does this have to do with domaining? We can do better. And when we do, this community, as amazing as it has been for the better part of two decades, will be even more amazing.

This isn't about me being a victim. I've said it before and I say it again, I am no victim. Don't worry about me I am just fine, thank you. But if we can't be as good as those kids at being polite, fair and kind to each other, well that really disappoints me. And it should you too.

Bob

Bullying is a very subjective term.

This thread is a bit hyperbole in my view. I don't see too many cases of actual bullying on NamePros. The people who get shit are the ones normally dealing the shit honestly.

Most of the push back I have seems comes from - hype threads (either a service or the person),
people making wild unsubstantiated claims, people with attitude problems, etc.

This is a discussion forum. People have different opinions.

If there is real bullying call it out, but there is a big difference between actual bullying and pushing back on bullshit.

Brad

I will stay away from the definition of bullying as that was accurately described at the beginning of this thread. So I will focus on the opposite, treating people with respect and kindness.

If you are unsure if you are possibly bullying, ask yourself, "Am I being respectful and/or exhibiting kindness?"

If your debating, especially when passionate, and you are not being respectful or kind, there is a chance it could be considered bullying, by definition.

So if you want to debate, which Namepros is known for, it's very important to remain respectful and kind while defending your position.

One thing that is definately not bullying is being respectful and kind. If you show respect and kindness, you can be assured it's not bullying.

bmugford said:

I don't see too many cases of actual bullying on NamePros.

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While I agree with that statement, Brad, I don't agree that just because it is only a few that it does not matter.

It is partly that I honestly don't see why doing some things such as linked here would not only eliminate most of the cases that do happen, and at the same time improve the quality of discussion and the learning. Yes those with long term have important truth to share, but how does asking them to be honest and respectful make it harder to share effectively?

Bob

Bob Hawkes said:

While I agree with that statement, Brad, I don't agree that just because it is only a few that it does not matter.

It is partly that I honestly don't see why doing some things such as linked here would not only eliminate most of the cases that do happen, and at the same time improve the quality of discussion and the learning. Yes those with long term have important truth to share, but how does asking them to be honest and respectful make it harder to share effectively?

Bob

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Hey Bob,

I never said it does not matter.

How about some actual examples of what you consider bullying? I think the problem is just overstated.

The vast majority of cases I have seen would fall under "people dealing shit are getting it back" case.

Brad