What's going on with Epik and Rob Monster?

This is real:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1524838015591572

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/25/health/mass-shooting-long-term-risk-kids/index.html

This is why this topic is important.

Haris said:

All this is off-topic but due to your multiple posts about it I must let you know that in Islam, It is mandatory for men show their ankles, a man who doesn't have a beard is a sinner, and there are many more requirements for both men and women, these are the rules that we must follow. This world is a place of test and we have to obey Allah if we want to live the eternal life in heaven. If there are no rules to be followed and everyone is free to do whatever they want than what would be the difference between being a muslim and being a non-muslim? Women aren't forced to do anything, there are rules that have to be followed by both men and women and millions of women not only cover their head but their face and their body willingly because they want to obey Allah. And just like there are states that would punish you for breaking any law there are punishments for breaking laws in religion too.

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I believe that we should encourage everyone to act, talk, look, and even think decent at all times and we should do our best to help those who are in need regardless of their race, gender, religion, or nationality. We should not support those who promote inequality, hate, cruelty, greed, lust, abuse, torture, and killing and who want to cause harm to others and the environment. I have the outmost respect for those who have dedicated their lives to help others and I have the least amount of respect for those who want to dominate others through fear and intimidation. I am wise enough not to be fooled by propaganda from any side, I believe that there is good and bad in all sides, we should support the good and challenge the bad whenever and wherever we see it without fear or hesitation.

oldtimer said:

I believe that we should encourage everyone to act, talk, look, and even think decent at all times and we should do our best to help those who are in need regardless of their race, gender, religion, or nationality. We should not support those who promote inequality, hate, cruelty, greed, lust, abuse, torture, and killing and who want to cause harm to others and the environment. I have the outmost respect for those who have dedicated their lives to help others and I have the least amount of respect for those who want to dominate others through fear and intimidation. I am wise enough not to be fooled by propaganda from any side, I believe that there is good and bad in all sides, we should support the good and challenge the bad whenever and wherever we see it without fear or hesitation.

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And we should comfort and fully support those who have lost loved ones and been traumatized by mass shootings.

Tom K said:

And we should comfort and fully support those who have lost loved ones and been traumatized by mass shootings.

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oldtimer said:

First off I believe that everyone here as a decent human being feels a certain sorrow any time other human beings are killed in cold blood and I also believe that it’s a matter of decency to be sensitive and sympathetic to the families who have lost loved ones in such situations regardless of who and where they are

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Got it @oldtimer, just thought it would be good to be specific and identify the issue at hand.

oldtimer said:

I believe that we should encourage everyone to act, talk, look, and even think decent at all times and we should do our best to help those who are in need regardless of their race, gender, religion, or nationality. We should not support those who promote inequality, hate, cruelty, greed, lust, abuse, torture, and killing and who want to cause harm to others and the environment. I have the outmost respect for those who have dedicated their lives to help others and I have the least amount of respect for those who want to dominate others through fear and intimidation. I am wise enough not to be fooled by propaganda from any side, I believe that there is good and bad in all sides, we should support the good and challenge the bad whenever and wherever we see it without fear or hesitation.

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@oldtimer - I think those are all sage words.

You mention the topic of propaganda. It is extremely important. It is my deeply-studied conviction that there is an active desire to foment conflict: black vs white, rich vs poor, Judeo-Christian vs. Islam, vegans vs. non-vegans, fat vs. skinny, gay vs. straight, etc. You get the idea and perhaps you agree.

What free speech makes possible is to expose the manipulation. Citizen journalism adds context. Here is a recent example:


This particular video references TR.news, which is registered at Epik. We'll keep them online, not because they are promoting hate, but because they are enabling dialog and because they are forcing accountability in a climate where propaganda wishes to prevent dialog.

I have experienced propaganda personally when I was naive enough to be interviewed by the likes of the Huffington Post or by the SPLC, including off the record. These folks are extremely opportunistic in assembling a persona and a narrative. The name "Rob Monster" as villain is admittedly too perfect.

My very sincere hope for everyone, including at NamePros, is that folks will find a way to see through the polarity, and will figure out how to love each other and return to embracing tolerance. I believe it is the only final antidote to the polarization we are seeing unfold. I try to find common ground.

The fact is that the world has seen wars and conflicts for thousands of years. There are never any winners when there is loss of life. As such, I hope never to see my children drafted into a war, nor do I wish this for anyone else's children.

Finally, if anyone's holy writ says it is ok to kill, rape or steal ANYONE in 2019, then you should perhaps critically consider your holy writ.

Rob Monster said:

You mention the topic of propaganda. It is extremely important. It is my deeply-studied conviction that there is an active desire to foment conflict: black vs white, rich vs poor, Judeo-Christian vs. Islam, vegans vs. non-vegans, fat vs. skinny, gay vs. straight, etc. You get the idea and perhaps you agree..

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Ok, again, this is where I don't get your posts, since you've never explained it.

How does that match with this - https://www.namepros.com/threads/so...er-or-suspension.1107245/page-18#post-7032144

Why would you repost that? That does exactly that, forment conflict. Or the tweet to that 8chan image, about Jews controlling everything that was deleted after I pointed it out? What you've posted here many times, doesn't match the other stuff you've reposted/tweeted.

JB Lions said:

Ok, again, this is where I don't get your posts, since you've never explained it.

How does that match with this - https://www.namepros.com/threads/so...er-or-suspension.1107245/page-18#post-7032144

Why would you repost that? That does exactly that, forment conflict. Or the tweet to that 8chan image, about Jews controlling everything that was deleted after I pointed it out?

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I did not know the original source of the image about media concentration. I don't use either of the Chans. We are not their registrar either. That was not where I found it. As I recall, I saw it in a Tweet.

I don't think there is any debate about media concentration in major western markets. Part of the reason why propaganda can occur is because of the media's ability to control the narrative. I object to that.

As for the other graphic, true Christianity is love. If you want to go down the rabbit hole of the crusades, we can do that but a true Christian would not force their faith on another. Ever. It is free will and nothing more.

If you want to read something enlightening about the Catholic Church, read "50 Years in the Church of Rome" by Charles Chiniquy. He was a contemporary of Abraham Lincoln.

Rob Monster said:

I did not know the original source of the image about media concentration. I don't use either of the Chans. We are not their registrar either. That was not where I found it. As I recall, I saw it in a Tweet.

I don't think there is any debate about media concentration in major western markets. Part of the reason why propaganda can occur is because of the media's ability to control the narrative. I object to that.

As for the other graphic, true Christianity is love. If you want to go down the rabbit hole of the crusades, we can do that but a true Christian would not force their faith on another. Ever. It is free will and nothing more.

If you want to read something enlightening about the Catholic Church, read 50 years in Rome by Charles Chiniquy. He was a contemporary of Abraham Lincoln.

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That graphic was putting Christianity in a good light, Islam in a bad. And rabbit hole? Slanted himself got into it, same stuff I pointed out. You literally had people having to choose between becoming Christian or getting their head chopped off. So yes, another way Christianity was spread was by violence and threat of death. The graphic below plays into that rhetoric of Islam is evil, watch out for Muslims etc. This is the type of stuff that forments conflict, distrust.

@Rob Monster

Why o why do you insist on posting stuff like this?

Rob Monster said:

This particular video references TR.news, which is registered at Epik. We'll keep them online, not because they are promoting hate, but because they are enabling dialog and because they are forcing accountability in a climate where propaganda wishes to prevent dialog.

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@Rob Monster

Why do you use this kind of content to promote your @Epik.com services? This is going to destroy your brand.

JB Lions said:

That graphic was putting Christianity in a good light, Islam in a bad. And rabbit hole? Slanted himself got into it, same stuff I pointed out. You literally had people having to choose becoming Christian or getting their head chopped off. So yes, another way Christianity was spread was by violence and threat of death.

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Sorry, no that was most definitely not how Christianity spread, at least for the first 300 years after Christ. You refer to the Dark Ages after Constantine paganized Christianity and declared Rome to be its center.

The Roman Catholics were Bible-burners. Private ownership of the Bible was forbidden. The Bible was in Latin, interpreted by priests.

The Protestant movement was essentially departure of Bible-believing Christians from the Catholic Church, and the end of the Dark Ages. In effect, anyone could read it.

And in modern times, we have free digital copies of the Bible, effectively fulfilling Daniel 12:4:

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

If you think we cannot go back to Fahrenheit 451 style book-burning, I think you are mistaken. The censors are essentially book-burners. And that should trouble any liberty-minded person greatly.

JB Lions said:

Or the tweet to that 8chan image, about Jews controlling everything that was deleted after I pointed it out? What you've posted here many times, doesn't match the other stuff you've reposted/tweeted.

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Apparently gets this kind of shit from....surprise! Gab!




Green=Goy(non-Jew) Blue=Nonwhite Red=Jewish

Tom K said:

@Rob Monster

Why do you use this kind of content to promote your @Epik.com services? This is going to destroy your brand.

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Simply because I am not hiding it. ANTIFA can have domains at Epik too. The DNC has domains

NameLlama said:

Apparently gets this kind of sh*t from....surprise! Gab!

Show attachment 113671

Show attachment 113672
Green=Goy(non-Jew) Blue=Nonwhite Red=Jewish

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I did not use those terms, nor did I imply anything about any group. You are clearly propagating divisiveness here, not me. I am not sure why, but I will call you out for it right here.

My point was about decentralization of media as an antidote against winner-take-all journalism being used as a vehicle for controlling the narrative.

Rob Monster said:

The Protestant movement was essentially departure of Bible-believing Christians from the Catholic Church, and the end of the Dark Ages. In effect, could read it.

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I am pretty well familiar with the history of Christianity, before and after the death of the apostles. Here is something for you to meditate on:

Even though the Protestant movement started with a good motive, as a "protest" against the iron rule of the Holy Roman Empire (i.e. Catholic church), it still maintains many of the same "pagan" beliefs. Among other things. Even though the Bible is available to the majority of the planet, people are discouraged from reading it. Mostly because of religion and politics. Which includes extremist ideals.

So what is your point?

Tom K said:

Rob Monster said:

The Protestant movement was essentially departure of Bible-believing Christians from the Catholic Church, and the end of the Dark Ages. In effect, could read it.

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I am pretty well familiar with the history of Christianity, before and after the death of the apostles. Here is something for you to meditate on:

Even though the Protestant movement started with a good motive, as a "protest" against the iron rule of the Holy Roman Empire (i.e. Catholic church), it still maintains many of the same "pagan" beliefs. Among other things. Even though the Bible is available to the majority of the planet, people are discouraged from reading it. Mostly because of religion and politics. Which includes extremist ideals.

So what is your point?

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That's great that you are studied in these matters.

For what it's worth, I identify only as a Bible-believing Christian, and have no denominational alignment, in part because I concluded that much of the business of religion is simply a reheating of the pagan tradition which accomplishes remarkably little other than collecting tithes and offerings.

Contrary to the teachings of many friendly neighborhood 501c3-filing places of worship, the church is not a building. The Pope is a fallible man, as are we all, albeit one with access to vast resources that could be deployed for a lot more good.

Rob Monster said:

For what it's worth, I identify only as a Bible-believing Christian, and have no denominational alignment, in part because I concluded that much of the business of religion is simply a reheating of the pagan tradition which accomplishes remarkably little other than collecting tithes and offerings.

Contrary to the teachings of many friendly neighborhood 501c3-filing places of worship, the church is not a building. The Pope is a fallible man, as are we all, albeit one with access to vast resources that could be deployed for a lot more good.

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I agree with you. The word 'church' does not refer to a structure but rather to people. The pope did not descend from the apostle Peter either. And religion, for the most part, is part of the political system of which Jesus said his followers are no part of.

What I am wondering is how you can reconcile your beliefs in a God who is love with posting extremist propaganda. I don't think that is helping anyone.

Tom K said:

I agree with you. The word 'church' does not refer to a structure but rather to people. The pope did not descend from the apostle Peter either. And religion, for the most part, is part of the political system of which Jesus said his followers are no part of.

What I am wondering is how you can reconcile your beliefs in a God who is love with posting extremist propaganda. I don't think that is helping anyone.

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I don't intentionally support extremists. I support free speech. I believe in personal accountability and discernment. I consider the search for truth to be among the most noble and important things we can do.

To the extent that I have encountered extremists, on the right and left, I have tried to engage them with love and logic. I have a day job running Epik so that outreach and related intercession is a side gig, if you will.

Rob Monster said:

I don't intentionally support extremists. I support free speech. I believe in personal accountability and discernment. I consider the search for truth to be among the most noble and important things we can do.

To the extent that I have encountered extremists, on the right and left, I have tried to engage them with love and logic. I have a day job running Epik so that outreach and related intercession is a side gig, if you will.

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Do you agree that "free speech" does not always equal "search for truth"? Quite often it doesn't, in fact.

The issue many people have, I believe, is that we see the push for "free speech" that it includes extremist views and no accountability or discernment. Just their narrative pushed upon us.

Tom K said:

Do you agree that "free speech" does not always equal "search for truth"? Quite often it doesn't, in fact.

The issue many people have, I believe, is that we see the push for "free speech" that it includes extremist views and no accountability or discernment. Just their narrative pushed upon us.

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And that is why you don't want to push people to the dark web. You want it all out in the open where you can see what people say. I am not active in any private forums, for example. Lots of folks use private forums on Riseup or Discord. I steer clear of those. When it comes to containing and defusing extremism, we should be a lot more concerned about what happens in private forums.

I have zero doubt that the technology for decentralized and encrypted communication will outrun just about any censorship strategy, unless you want to subject humanity to total blackouts as is happening in Venezuela this week or turn off the Internet completely as happened in Congo recently. The Chinese firewall scenario combined with Social Credit Scoring system is also something humanity should refuse.

Rob Monster said:

And that is why you don't want to push people to the dark web. You want it all out in the open where you can see what people say. I am not active in any private forums, for example. Lots of folks use private forums on Riseup or Discord. I steer clear of those. When it comes to containing and defusing extremism, we should be a lot more concerned about what happens in private forums.

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@Rob Monster

That is probably the most noble thing about you.

The truth is that everything is out in the open around us. The truth is all around us. We can see and hear what the politicians are doing and saying, the same goes for religious leaders and leaders in business, etc.

The problem is when we allow the media to narrate the reality. To spin it their way. When we hand off our thinking ability to others and let them decide what to think.

This includes mainstream media and especially extremist media.

Also we need to be clear as to what our morals and priorities are. Do we care about the 50 innocent lives that were taken and their families? Or do we care more about the video and whether it is real? Both may be important. But which is the priority now. And is someone spelling out in big letters what we should think or believe or question.

Unrelated to Epik/Rob:

I don’t know if I trust the “truth” by popularity contest via humans who muddy the truth with a long version of the telephone game.

Nor, as of lately, am I too trusting of the media due to fear based politics.

There has to be credible sources for truth, in my opinion, otherwise what is to stop the “truth” from being just a confirmation of ones biases?

I am all for free speech but “truth”, to me, is a whole ‘nother story.

People should be highly skeptical of such things and careful of confirmation bias.

Tia Wood said:

Unrelated to Epik/Rob:

I don’t know if I trust the “truth” by popularity contest via humans who muddy the truth with a long version of the telephone game.

Nor, as of lately, am I too trusting of the media due to fear based politics.

There has to be credible sources for truth, in my opinion, otherwise what is to stop the “truth” from being just a confirmation of ones biases?

I am all for free speech but “truth”, to me, is a whole ‘nother story.

People should be highly skeptical of such things and careful of confirmation bias.

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@Tia Wood

I can see your point. "Truth" can mean different things to different people.

When I think of "truth", I mean it is the obvious conclusion when you consider the facts. Like, the sky is blue, grass is green, water is wet, etc.

So perhaps for clarity, we should substitute the word "truth" for "facts".

I have been thinking of posting this for a couple of days and I think I have found my window. I have a series of lectures on the Introduction to Logic. This is an excerpt from that series.

It does not tell you what to think. It is an educational lecture by Leonard Peikoff from many years back. It has helped me to sharpen the blade, so to speak. It might help you as well, to dissect the narrative a bit.

There is plenty more where this came from, but here is a taste. It's good dog-walking fodder. I hope it proves to be of interest to someone in this thread. For those who are familiar with this territory, the lecture describes the logical fallacies of:

• ad verecundiam
• ad baculum
• ad hominem
• ad populum

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3pjwgjjtza023dg/Intro To Logic (Lecture 2_pt1.mp3?dl=0

Tom K said:

Do you agree that "free speech" does not always equal "search for truth"? Quite often it doesn't, in fact.

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Good point. Two entirely different things that rarely go hand in hand.

The issue many people have, I believe, is that we see the push for "free speech" that it includes extremist views and no accountability or discernment. Just their narrative pushed upon us.

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I'm with Rob on this one. It's been pretty well established that penalizing abortion in Poland simply pushed it underground or (for the better situated) abroad. There is really no way to know if there has been any drop in the number of abortions, or perhaps increase thereof, because there are no reliable statistics (never mind the official ones, which have nothing to do with reality). My point is the same as Rob's: sweeping garbage under the carpet does not a clean house make. On the contrary, things are more likely as not to grow and ferment there, out of sight, with no one in the mainstream the wiser. Until the rot eats through the carpet and... somebody gets himself an automatic rifle and vents his quietly accumulated frustrations on innocent people in a mosque. Or a catholic church. Or a public school.

Extremist narrative is not the problem. We've got bigger problems. Unwelcome and dangerous narratives are pushed upon us by various governments every day, or haven't you noticed? One good example in the US is the narrative about "dirty, criminal, rapist latinos invading good, clean America" and how America will not survive this unless there is the wall. In Poland, the PIS goverment is hard at work winning hearts and minds (read: votes!) with classic scare tactic narrative about "dirty, criminal, terrorist migrants, most of them bringing with them dangerous diseases" and how they are the only ones in the 1,000+ year history of Poland who are ready, willing and able to stop this "invasion". Rob has already mentioned the "Social Credit Score" system in China, but not living in China, he wasn't subject to the accompanying propaganda campaign, narrative about how successful and good for the People this system is and... how it will be expanded. Do you think this is bad, but nothing to do with you? Just wait till a future US government takes a page from China's Playbook. And in the meantime, worry (or applaud!) the narratives being pushed by more than one candidate running for President about the need for major wealth redistribution, how else, by taxing the hell out of the rich, so as to allow, who else, the government to more fairly distribute the wealth amongst the People...

I'm just picking and choosing. There are many other such dangerous ideas and narratives pushed upon us every single day. I'm really more concerned about these narratives, government sanctioned, or likely to be sanctioned and implemented in the near future. My point is: compared to this, marginalized right wing, or left wing extremists, foaming at their mouths are of no concern whatsoever. By all means, allow them to vent; let them push their narratives upon us; give the "Five Eyes" a better chance to invigilate them and forestall tragic incidents like the one in Christchurch. Instead of scrambling to save their collective asses by, what else, a new narrative... guns are very bad! We are pushing for new legislation to further curtail peoples' freedoms, but for the good of the People... we're banning all rifles in the country, legislation to be introduced within 4 weeks! Wow, ain't that somethin'?