My journey with BrandBucket (and why I'm leaving them)

BrandVenue · Jul 14, 2018

I have joined BB in the beginning of 2016. Started with only a less than 15 names just to give it a try. Within a couple months I sold one domain (May 2016 to be exact). After that sale I took BrandBucket seriously and listed 250+ names over the years, mostly hand registered domains. That was the time when BB acceptance rate was only around 20%. So I had to submit 100 domains to get 20 of them approved. Unlike now that was the time when submitting unregistered domains wasn't allowed.

For almost a year I had no sale so I sold some of my hand registered domains to other BB sellers here at Namepros. Mostly because I was not getting my 2nd sale, renewals were coming due, I wasn't sure what my next move would be if I didn't have another sale.

My 2nd sale came exactly 1 year after my first sale. After my 2nd sale I have been regularly selling one domain every month or two on BB. With each of these sale I came to realize the importance of quality over quantity. Because on BrandBucket I was only selling the names I bought from auctions. But my portfolio was filled with so many hand registered names. I wasn't so lucky to sell a single hand registered domain there.

For this reason I had changed my strategy. With the profits of each sale I bought domains from auctions. I sold off nearly all my hand registered domains from my BB portfolio to other BB sellers, kept only a few which I really like and filled my portfolio with domains bought from auctions.

Currently I have 138 domains and 70%-80% of those are domains bought for XX, XXX and XXXX figures from auctions. I have stopped hand registering domains long time ago.

Total sold : 8 domains
Total Revenue: $26K (average $3.2K)
Total Net proceeds: $18.3K (average $2.2K)

My dashboard says 3.82% sell through rate, with being top 13% of sellers.

I consider myself pretty successful on BB. But despite that I have decided to leave BB. Why?

Over my journey I have watched BB inventory grow from 20K+ domains to 50K+ domains. But quality of the names did not grow with the same pace. Nowadays BB accepts every kind of domains which would have never been accepted in 2015/16.

At first it was good to repeat last letter of a domain like Domainn , then they started to accept repeated letters anywhere on the word like

and

.

Even though at this point I thought they wouldn't approve repeating first letter of a domain, but after seeing

it's clear that in upcoming days we will see more of this kind first letter repeated domains.

I knew BB only publish pronounceable 4 letter domains but

?

I thought removing one vowel like Tunnl (I've sold this one on BB) instead of Tunnel was good but removing 3 vowel?

And the last one which I saw today is

in the description it says - A clever spelling of "outsourced". The domain is Out/Soursd, S not C. if it was OutSourcd I'd understand why BB accepted it - they removed the last vowel of correct spelling OutSourced but why would they accept or publish a domain like Out/Soursd?

After seeing this name I have said myself enough is enough. I can't have my domains, most of which were bought from auctions for substantial amount of money compete with these kind of names. One thing is clear BB is ignoring quality issue, they now believe in quantity over quality which is against my point of view. So I've decided to leave BrandBucket.

When they were getting good number of sales they would highlight that in their newsletters, but they've stopped publishing any kind of sale related info which suggests their sale rate also dropping.

I did not have any intention to go against any other BB sellers (especially those whose domains I've mentioned here). I only blame BB for their decision to move to quantity over quality strategy. I am not saying these domains I've mentioned here won't sell, they might sell. But BB has proved that we may see more unpronounceable 4 letter domains (even CHIPS too) in future, we may see more first letter repeated domains in future, we may also see more domains like

in future.

All these suggests BB inventory will grow rapidly in the future and my small portfolio of domains will be like a small water drop of a ocean, chances of selling a name there through buyer using search option doesn't look bright anymore.

I've sent them 30 days notice to remove my names. It's been a good journey.

anantj · Sep 18, 2018

JimJammy said:
3) The advertise on Adwords, they promote all of the names on social media, they've just completed a big promotion with a company that deals with startups, they've not long returned from NamesCon and TechDayLA... the list goes on.

Can you prove they promote/advertise individual names (from non BB/Boxador affiliate sellers) and not the brandbucket brand itself?

JimJammy · Sep 18, 2018

anantj said:
Can you prove they promote/advertise individual names (from non BB/Boxador affiliate sellers) and not the brandbucket brand itself?

anantj · Sep 18, 2018

None of them are through the channels you mentioned.

NMC is not a advertising channel where BB actually advertises seller domains. That's a red herring.

The bb_domains twitter account is an auto posted list of domains from their RSS feed (https://feeds.feedburner.com/brandbucket ) so no active promotion by BrandBucket themselves.

On Mark Levine's tweet, please show how a retweet extolling BB is promoting a sellers name?

On Keith's quora post, this is what I found out about the domains he listed:

ultavia.com - owned by Keith
travesto.com - owned by Keith
JetHeaven.com - owned by Keith
SentryTravel.com - Owned by Keith
Scootico.com - Owned by Keith

Keith (on behalf of BB as their ambassador) is not promoting BB seller names except his own. No offence Keith, this is not wrong and I'm not judging. Just stating facts here.

@JimJammy: I respect you and what you've achieved with BB. It is very impression and envious (for me) but your entire previous comment is HIGHLY misleading about BB promoting their seller's names. I have, personally, never come across any form of promotion by BB for their seller's names.

This is very different from promoting/advertising the BB brand which they of course rightly should and is expected.

JimJammy · Sep 18, 2018

anantj said:
None of them are through the channels you mentioned.

NMC is not a advertising channel where BB actually advertises seller domains. That's a red herring.

The bb_domains twitter account is an auto posted list of domains from their RSS feed (https://feeds.feedburner.com/brandbucket ) so no active promotion by BrandBucket themselves.

On Mark Levine's tweet, please show how a retweet extolling BB is promoting a sellers name?

On Keith's quora post, this is what I found out about the domains he listed:

ultavia.com - owned by Keith
travesto.com - owned by Keith
JetHeaven.com - owned by Keith
SentryTravel.com - Owned by Keith
Scootico.com - Owned by Keith

Keith (on behalf of BB as their ambassador) is not promoting BB seller names except his own. No offence Keith, this is not wrong and I'm not judging. Just stating facts here.

@JimJammy: I respect you and what you've achieved with BB. It is very impression and envious (for me) but your entire previous comment is HIGHLY misleading about BB promoting their seller's names. I have, personally, never come across any form of promotion by BB for their seller's names.

This is very different from promoting/advertising the BB brand which they of course rightly should and is expected.

NMC is for potential domain purchasers to request a domain name. This was set up by Brandbucket, paid for by Brandbucket and maintained by Brandbucket. Brandbucket and NMC is promoted in Adwords and other paid media forms. We as sellers can promote our names there and BB staff members also promote our names there. They offer the best names that match the request, no matter who they belong to.

The fact that their social media posts are automated doesn't mean they are not promoting your names! They still had to pay to set up that system and they pay to promote their social media.

I was pointing out that BB had a second Twitter account with that post.

Agreed on the Quora post.

Other than the above, they spend thousands targeting startup companies and marketing agencies to come to BrandBucket the company, where your names are listed, and a large promotional push was discussed in BBs forum recently (details of things like this they would rather not be discussed outside of BB I understand).

Keith DeBoer · Sep 18, 2018

In case anyone is interested…………

BB’s goal is to sell our domains. They get a commission, the logo designer gets an award and we get the balance of the proceeds. In order to give our domains the best chance of selling, BB only accepts names that it feels will appeal to its client base. Domains that they feel have little chance of selling are rejected.

Once a domain is accepted BB invests money in presenting that domain in the most appealing way with a nice description, logo, search words and landing pages. After BB has invested their time and money in a domain they, and in most cases the logo designers, want the domain to stay on the platform so they can be rewarded for their investment of time and money.

If we allow our domains to expire it does NOT affect our good standing rating. If we give/sell our domains to another BB seller, it does NOT affect our good standing. If we give 30 days notice and remove a few of our domains it does NOT affect our good standing. However, if we remove more than 6% of our entire BB portfolio then our good standard rating is affected. This can be remedied by adding more domains to our portfolio.

Not having good standing on BB means we are not part of BB’s community communication platform and its benefits. We also cannot receive domains from other BB sellers.

But that is all.

All other benefits continue. We can still sell our domains on BB and profit. We can still get great customer service from their help desk. We can still add names to our BB portfolio.

As others have mentioned, in most cases, BB’s policies are more lenient than other brandable platforms that often ban sellers, sometimes without notice, for various reasons like they are selling their published domains on NPs etc.

BB only closes our account if we remove domains from our BB folio WITHOUT giving the required 30 days notice. This is in the terms of use that we agree to when we open a BB account.

Also, I have asked BB about the biased search allegations and they say that any such bias, if it exists, is unintended and they do not give preference in their search results to specific sellers. They ask that if anyone finds any instances of skewed search results that they contact BB ([email protected]) so they can remedy the situation for that specific search which came about as an unintended consequence of their search algorithms.

In addition when domains go through the system to be published or to be sold, there is no identifying information attached. Just the domain. The employee has no knowledge of who owns each domain. Every effort is made to give every BB seller the same opportunity to sell their domains as anyone else.

Like any organization or platform BB is not perfect. They make mistakes. If anyone sees mistakes or or has suggestions for improvement, BB welcomes our feedback via its help desk ([email protected]) and will always work to repair any errors or inadequacies in its systems or procedures.

Peace!

frank-germany · Sep 18, 2018

Keith DeBoer said:
In case anyone is interested…………

BB’s goal is to sell our domains. They get a commission, the logo designer gets an award and we get the balance of the proceeds. In order to give our domains the best chance of selling, BB only accepts names that it feels will appeal to its client base. Domains that they feel have little chance of selling are rejected.

Once a domain is accepted BB invests money in presenting that domain in the most appealing way with a nice description, logo, search words and landing pages. After BB has invested their time and money in a domain they, and in most cases the logo designers, want the domain to stay on the platform so they can be rewarded for their investment of time and money.

If we allow our domains to expire it does NOT affect our good standing rating. If we give/sell our domains to another BB seller, it does NOT affect our good standing. If we give 30 days notice and remove a few of our domains it does NOT affect our good standing.

However, if we remove more than 6% of entire BB portfolio then our good standard rating is affected. This can be remedied by adding more domains to our portfolio.

Not having good standing on BB means we are not part of BB’s community communication platform and its benefits. We also cannot receive domains from other BB sellers.

But that is all.

All other benefits continue. We can still sell our domains on BB and profit. We can still get great customer service from their help desk. We can still add names to our BB portfolio.

As others have mentioned, in most cases, BB’s policies are more lenient than other brandable platforms that often ban sellers, sometimes without notice, for various reasons like they are selling their published domains on NPs etc.

BB only closes our account if we remove domains from our BB folio WITHOUT giving the required 30 days notice. This is in the terms of use that we agree to when we open a BB account.

Also, I have asked BB about the biased search allegations and that any such bias, if it exists, is unintended. They do not give preference in their search results to specific sellers. They ask that if anyone finds any instances of skewed search results that they contact BB ([email protected]) so they can remedy the situation for that specific search.

In addition when domains go through the system to be published or to be sold, there is no identifying information attached. Just the domain. The employee has no knowledge of who owns each domain. Every effort is made to give every BB sell the same opportunity to sell their domains as anyone else.

Like any organization or platform BB is not perfect. They make mistakes. If anyone sees mistakes or or has suggestions for improvement, BB welcomes our feedback via its help desk ([email protected]) and will always work to repair any errors or inadequacies in its systems or procedures.

Peace!

you are right
"they" have the right to do what ever pleases "them"

and I may or maynot like it

and I don't like it

-- and may very well be a reason for me to never use them again

Recons.Com · Sep 18, 2018

frank-germany said:
3 of the 4 sales were 4L.com
I didn't get them for handreg

and I submitted 850 .com domains = 8500 USD
so I am not so enthusiastic as you think

You probably paid around $1000, as only around 100 were listed.

anantj · Sep 18, 2018

JimJammy said:
NMC is for potential domain purchasers to request a domain name. This was set up by Brandbucket, paid for by Brandbucket and maintained by Brandbucket. Brandbucket and NMC is promoted in Adwords and other paid media forms.

You explicitly stated that BB promots seller names. NMC is a feature of the BB platform and BB promoting their platform is not the same as them promoting their seller's names. This is like Afternic promoting their domain management or search interface. C'mon, that's weak argument at best.

JimJammy said:
We as sellers can promote our names there and BB staff members also promote our names there. They offer the best names that match the request, no matter who they belong to.

Can vs do is a vast gap. Again, sellers are offering their names, not promoting. This is not promotion at all! Definitively in the context you made your original comment which was in terms of paid marketing (including at events). Would you say that offering your domains for WTB requests on NP is promoting or is it offering for sale?

JimJammy said:
The fact that their social media posts are automated doesn't mean they are not promoting your names! They still had to pay to set up that system and they pay to promote their social media.

Oh please. I'll set it up for free for you. It's literally a 20-30 min job for the basic feed output they have. The do not have to pay for this system as it can all be done for free.... Trust me, I've created such automated feeds and twitter/tumblr/facebook feeds.

JimJammy said:
Other than the above, they spend thousands targeting startup companies and marketing agencies to come to BrandBucket the company, where your names are listed, and a large promotional push was discussed in BBs forum recently (details of things like this they would rather not be discussed outside of BB I understand).

From almost all your comments, the singular point that's come across to me has been BB promoting BB. And they probably do a fantastic job at it. But this is in direct contrast with your original statement that I quoted which stated that BB promotes seller domains. The closest that comes to this promotion is the bb_domains twitter and even grudgingly I'd not give that one any credit given that it adds no value practically. It's a stream of newly published domains.

I'd also like to add the following statement: I have no problems if BB does not promote seller's domains. I kind of expected it and ultimately don't care. But when you vocally spread inaccurate information, that's is why I questioned you. So far, you have not provided a single shred of proof of BB actively promoting a seller's name which is what you stated they do. If they don't so be it and it's all fine and dandy. If they do, prove it. And for the sake of repeating, promoting seller names and not the BB platform.

JimJammy · Sep 18, 2018

anantj said:
You explicitly stated that BB promots seller names. NMC is a feature of the BB platform and BB promoting their platform is not the same as them promoting their seller's names. This is like Afternic promoting their domain management or search interface. C'mon, that's weak argument at best.

Can vs do is a vast gap. Again, sellers are offering their names, not promoting. This is not promotion at all! Definitively in the context you made your original comment which was in terms of paid marketing (including at events). Would you say that offering your domains for WTB requests on NP is promoting or is it offering for sale?

Oh please. I'll set it up for free for you. It's literally a 20-30 min job for the basic feed output they have. The do not have to pay for this system as it can all be done for free.... Trust me, I've created such automated feeds and twitter/tumblr/facebook feeds.

From almost all your comments, the singular point that's come across to me has been BB promoting BB. And they probably do a fantastic job at it. But this is in direct contrast with your original statement that I quoted which stated that BB promotes seller domains. The closest that comes to this promotion is the bb_domains twitter and even grudgingly I'd not give that one any credit given that it adds no value practically. It's a stream of newly published domains.

I'd also like to add the following statement: I have no problems if BB does not promote seller's domains. I kind of expected it and ultimately don't care. But when you vocally spread inaccurate information, that's is why I questioned you. So far, you have not provided a single shred of proof of BB actively promoting a seller's name which is what you stated they do. If they don't so be it and it's all fine and dandy. If they do, prove it. And for the sake of repeating, promoting seller names and not the BB platform.

The NMC platform was specifically built by BB to promote sellers names. The fact that it's on their site makes no difference. They created it, they advertise it and they allow potential name purchasers to request names and they submit individual names from BB to these potential name purchasers. All of this is a bonus to BB members that other marketplaces don't offer. That is actively promoting a sellers name.

They post every name on their site on social media, that is actively promoting a sellers name.

And BB does promote BB, of course it does! What do you think these buyers do when they get to BB? They buy names, our names!

Margot personally has relationships with VC companies, marketing agencies and startup companies. Who do you think these people requiring a name go to when they need one? And when they get there what to do they do? They buy names, our names!

They way that some people go on, you'd think that BB did nothing (like most other marketplaces) but this is simply not the case, they are always working to promote our names in some form or other.

Furquan · Sep 18, 2018

anantj said:
the singular point that's come across to me has been BB promoting BB.

OK then, Can you explain why BB promoting BB?

I would like to know who get most benefit if BB just promote their self as "Brandable Marketplace",

anantj · Sep 18, 2018

Furquah said:
OK then, Can you explain why BB promoting BB?

I would like to know who get most benefit if BB just promote their self as "Brandable Marketplace",

Please go and re-read my opinion about BB promoting BB. No seriously, go ahead. And also go ahead and my original question on this topic.

Foggy · Sep 18, 2018

JimJammy said:
They post every name on their site on social media, that is actively promoting a sellers name.

Posting names to a social media account one time—when they're published—is hardly "active."

I have been submitting and selling domains at BB for five years and the only thing I have known them to promote is BB.

I have found NMC to be a monumental waste of time.

Name Trader · Sep 22, 2018

Keith DeBoer said:
In case anyone is interested…………

Also, I have asked BB about the biased search allegations and they say that any such bias, if it exists, is unintended and they do not give preference in their search results to specific sellers. They ask that if anyone finds any instances of skewed search results that they contact BB ([email protected]) so they can remedy the situation for that specific search which came about as an unintended consequence of their search algorithms.

Was it you, @Grilled who did this testing earlier this year?

offthehandle · Sep 22, 2018

stub said:
But what they don't tell you is that it would screw-up your "in good standing" ratio so badly, that it is now impossible for me to buy BB listed names any longer on NP.

Huh? Good Standing? What kind of crap is that? That marketplace is a scam and as pointed out diluted with less than stellar names clouding end user searching.

stub said:
What I have to consider though. Is it even worth it. Whilst the searches on BB are still so corrupted, against regular BB users, like me.

50,000 names competing? That does not make sense. The other brand marketplaces rank in Google SEO, probably try them.

BrandVenue said:
But dropping all vowels? I don't know if it's becoming trendy but IMO it's weird and very confusing.

It is weird, confusing and frankly stupid. I guess it speaks for a fad of millennial startup's. How does that pass the radio test? How does a corporation even get real funding with such a stupid name?

Man D · Jan 7, 2019

Why don't you try Brandcart?
No charges for logo creation
No listing fee
2 weeks domain listing time (half compare to competitors)
Low commissions

headsupp · Mar 20, 2019

Keith DeBoer said:
Stub, I appreciate your feelings and views. Every market place has its good and bad points. Domainers should choose the marketplace(s) that best suit their needs. In some cases that means using multiple marketplaces and/or landing pages via Efty etc.

BB does require exclusivity for their listings just like BrandRoot and Brandpa. However, any seller can remove a domain(s) from BB by giving 30 days notice.

Brandroot does not require exclusivity. You are allowed to list on Afternic and other marketplaces, which he confirmed to me via an email. Wouldn't be fair if the owner, Michael, would be allowed special treatment. You can see his domains listed on Afternic. Take Otho.com or Trive.com as examples. Now, only if the traffic was better.

canswift · Mar 21, 2019

headsupp said:
Brandroot does not require exclusivity. You are allowed to list on Afternic and other marketplaces

This is not my understanding at all. I believe that Brandroot, like other brandable marketplaces, does indeed require domains to be listed exclusively. This would only seem to be prudent, as a domain could sell at an Afternic BIN price, right out from under that brandable marketplace at any time, even in mid customer negotiations. Not a scenario any marketplace wants.

BRANDERX · Mar 21, 2019

With the expanded promotion through Sedo & their MLS, BrandBucket's exclusivity isn't that bad anymore.

imo

equity78 · Mar 21, 2019

canswift said:
This is not my understanding at all. I believe that Brandroot, like other brandable marketplaces, does indeed require domains to be listed exclusively. This would only seem to be prudent, as a domain could sell at an Afternic BIN price, right out from under that brandable marketplace at any time, even in mid customer negotiations. Not a scenario any marketplace wants.

Your domains published at Brandroot will be exclusively for sale at Brandroot for as long as the domain are listed at Brandroot, meaning you cannot list your Brandroot published domains for sale anywhere else on the web. - See more at: https://www.brandroot.com/seller-application#sthash.QdRfNb59.dpuf

equity78 · Mar 21, 2019

MS-Domains said:
With the expanded promotion through Sedo & their MLS, BrandBucket's exclusivity isn't that bad anymore.

imo

Agreed the Sedo relationship is a plus.

headsupp · Mar 21, 2019

Hmm. I had 4100 Domains with Brandroot and had it listed on the Afternic for the last 6 months. I had a markup of 20% on my domains and Michael knew about it. I had to pay Afternic their 20% an then unfortunately pay Michael the 30% +100. He knew and was okay. Plus recently I asked if other sellers on Brandroot knew they could sell on other marketplaces and he asked me: If I thought I got special privileges.

Per Alexa.com their site has had a pretty big dip in traffic so having a good amount of sales on Afternic at a 20% markup was a life savor.

Plus he has his domain listed on Afternic, Check out Otho.com. Trive.com . Check Afternic and whois. I wouldn't think that Michael would hold himself to a different standard then other sellers on his marketplace. That wouldn't set a good example.

equity78 · Mar 21, 2019

headsupp said:
Hmm. I had 4100 Domains with Brandroot and had it listed on the Afternic for the last 6 months. I had a markup of 20% on my domains and Michael knew about it. I had to pay Afternic their 20% an then unfortunately pay Michael the 30% +100. He knew and was okay. Plus recently I asked if other sellers on Brandroot knew they could sell on other marketplaces and he asked me: If I thought I got special privileges.

Per Alexa.com their site has had a pretty big dip in traffic so having a good amount of sales on Afternic at a 20% markup was a life savor.

Plus he has his domain listed on Afternic, Check out Otho.com. Trive.com . Check Afternic and whois. I wouldn't think that Michael would hold himself to a different standard then other sellers on his marketplace. That wouldn't set a good example.

Interesting, they should be following their own TOS

Your domains published at Brandroot will be exclusively for sale at Brandroot for as long as the domain are listed at Brandroot, meaning you cannot list your Brandroot published domains for sale anywhere else on the web. - See more at: https://www.brandroot.com/seller-application#sthash.QdRfNb59.dpuf

ivey · Mar 21, 2019

I had one sale on BB.. good sale. But everything has been dead since. I'm considering just removing my names.

headsupp · Mar 21, 2019

Afternic on the Fast Transfer Network has being real nice to me in the last 6 months. May think about using their nameservers since it seems like they updated the landing page.

Jay Ha · Mar 21, 2019

Submit my domain on a NMC request and I was the first person to submit. The domain was at the top of the list for a couple of minutes so I thought that's good..

Checked now it is at 47th place with random domains not related to the requirement above me. So yeah that's dodgy business right there.

My journey with BrandBucket (and why I'm leaving them)

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